Interesting reading Red vs. Blue Lights

[irsa]

The sercurity outfit is Australian sercurity patrols. They also have a VS commode with reflective markings and what looks all the would like an ex RTA Hazard bar with green lens. Seen it at the building site on Mort st around 5.45pm during the week.

[cbus]

[quote="mr.syntrx"]To be more precise (according to New South Wales law):

Blue or blue/red: Police, fire, State Rescue Board accredited SES vehicles

nearly correct. NSW RTA vehicles are also allowed to use blue/red lights. you also forgot ambo's use red/blue.

(there is actually reasoning behind it it creates the perception of more enforcement vehicles on the road. [this was said by a presenter from the police at a conference I went to some time ago)

[central150]

That is Kentucky state law: you must be OFF the roadway.

Massachusetts, volunteer/call firefighters use red lights, the law states that it is a courtsey light, vehicles do not have to pull over for you with it activated.

[Jim202]

I would bet that if you did a little more reading, you would find that there is a law that requires the drivers of all vehicles to yield to emergency vehicles approaching them. Use to live in that state and was a member of the fire department there.

You can be sited for failure to yeild to an emergency vehicle. The issue is just what is an emergency vehicle? This is dertermined by the fire chief and his issuing of the red light permits and the use policy of said red lights.

Jim

That is Kentucky state law: you must be OFF the roadway.

Massachusetts, volunteer/call firefighters use red lights, the law states that it is a courtsey light, vehicles do not have to pull over for you with it activated.

[central150]

Were not "emergency vehicles" as defined in Mass. General Laws.

[KuhnElectronics]

Then really what is the point of having lights?

Here in Ohio we run Red & Clear, and have the same priveleges and laws about running hot than the LEO's, fire engines, ambulances, ect....

Now sometimes it is a little hard to explain to vollies what "due regard" is, but I still operate on the same rule of thumb since the day I started running calls... Just because you have lights does not give you any special privelages to run a vehicle off of the road. You are simply requesting the right of way, and the car you are requesting it from should comply. In intersections if I have to run a red, I slow down coming nearly to a complete stop, and I will even make eye contact with they drivers who originially had the right away to assure we are on the same page....

It just seems like a courtesy light is a waist...might as well flip on your hazard lights and hope someone lets you around....

could you have a siren, or even an a/h in Mass...???

[central150]

Then really what is the point of having lights?

Here in Ohio we run Red & Clear, and have the same priveleges and laws about running hot than the LEO's, fire engines, ambulances, ect....

Now sometimes it is a little hard to explain to vollies what "due regard" is, but I still operate on the same rule of thumb since the day I started running calls... Just because you have lights does not give you any special privelages to run a vehicle off of the road. You are simply requesting the right of way, and the car you are requesting it from should comply. In intersections if I have to run a red, I slow down coming nearly to a complete stop, and I will even make eye contact with they drivers who originially had the right away to assure we are on the same page....

It just seems like a courtesy light is a waist...might as well flip on your hazard lights and hope someone lets you around....

could you have a siren, or even an a/h in Mass...???

It is a waste of time. On our Dept., some guys don't have lights, and if there is another member of the dept. responding to a call behind them with their lights on, the member without the light usually doesn't pull over. As for sirens, I believe it's up to the Chief's discretion to allow them or not. We don't have any.

[Pj]

Its been my experience that most people will yield the ROW in "curtosity" light states, depending on the area. More lights you have, better the chances.

[central150]

Its been my experience that most people will yield the ROW in "curtosity" light states, depending on the area. More lights you have, better the chances.

You better get out of my way!! lol


-Tony

[Scannerbuff922]

Up by me in New York, you commonly don't see Red/Blue mixed in at all and mostly if you do it would be in the back, But i seen some Fire Dept. companies with Red/Blue grille lights or some on the lightbar but i think just to give a little more of a bright light for people to see. Up in Orange County you will not see that much like that. But then again the ambulance corps. i use to belong to use's Red/Blue/Amber in the back of there Paremedic Flycars and Ambulances. That would be Blooming Grove Ambulance Corps. We have a big issue about it because i been hearing some contraversy over the colors. Because when the EMS show up too the seen where the volunteer fire company are at the FF are saying why do they need blue too. Well i think it's bright. Like i siad you don't find too many apparatus with that setup. Like the ambulance they have a flushmount bar in the back and in the middle section of the bar there is one flashing blue light and the rest is red/white. also with the other ambulance too, there is two strobes up on top one is red the other is blue and then rest red and amber. But with the Medic division BGVAC has. You will literally get blind with the Red/Blue setup they have for the back. You are pretty much blinded. But some guys like the Red/Blue in there Personal Vehicles. The town and village PD did'nt care what color you had in the back windshield or if it's one of the biggest whacker vehicle there is, all they wanted you to do is respect the rules of the road and not too put any rotators in the back windshield due to the state policy for Police only. But yeah i think Red/Blue is the brightest mixed in with others. I would recomend it.

[kf4sqb]

I don't know what the actual state law says, all I can say is what you usually see in Georgia. I've never seen an ambulance or fire/rescue apperatus running blue. Due to this, I would assume that state law/code says that blue is reserved for LE use only. I think GSP (State Patrol) uses exclusively blue lightbars (they've gone to low-profile LED bars, don't know what brand, and they are AWESOME!!!), with assorted clear corner strobes and wig/wags. County/local LEOs use varied combinations (depends on the local agencies' preferences) of red, blue, amber, and wig/wags. Most fire/rescue apperatuses run red, usually with at least some amber somewhere on the truck, and occasionly a little white. No distinction between department/personal vehicles, or rank in the department. Ambulances normally use a combination of red, amber, and white. Amber or amber/white can be used by pretty much anybody who presents a road hazard, ie. tow trucks, road workers, road survey crews, oversized loads/escort vehicles, etc. I have seen green used by both command/communications posts, and security firms. Purple is used for funeral processions (yes, most hearses around here have a purlple strobe mounted in the center top of the windshield).

As for the red vs. blue visibility debate, I seem to remember hearing about a study someone did that said that a drunk driver tended to veer toward a blue light at night, but away from a red. Something about most of the officers hit/nearly hit by a drunk driver during a nighttime traffic stop had all blue lights on their patrol cars. Anyone else hear about this?

[RESCUE161]

As for the red vs. blue visibility debate, I seem to remember hearing about a study someone did that said that a drunk driver tended to veer toward a blue light at night, but away from a red. Something about most of the officers hit/nearly hit by a drunk driver during a nighttime traffic stop had all blue lights on their patrol cars. Anyone else hear about this?

My Uncle was a cop in Santa Ana, CA and he told me about that study, but he told me it was the amber light on the back of the light bar that drunk drivers veered towards. Not sure about now, but they had that one little amber light on one side of the lightbar that just blinked on and off. I remember he hated it.

[NB2E]

NY:

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/emer-vt.htm#sec375

RED/WHITE: Emergency Vehicles (Ambulances, Fire Apparatus, Chiefs, Paramedic Flycars, Etc)
AMBER: Vehicles Posing a Traffic Hazard (Plows, Wide Loads, Neighboorhood Watch, Tow Trucks, Etc)
BLUE: Volunteer Fire Fighters (As Authorized by the fire chief, use of combination red / blue expressly prohibited on emergency vehicles)
GREEN: Volunteer Ambulance Squad Member (As Authorized by the Department Chief / Director)

BLUE & GREEN are courtesy lights, yielding right of way is not mandatory but greatly appreciated.

NB2E

[BPD109]

Rescue161
kf4sqb

In regards to that, persons impaired by alcohol and some other Central Nervous System Depressant drugs can "see" the color red, i.e. distinguish red from others a little better, while under the influence. The reason that impaired drivers tend to veer toward emergency vehicles with flashing red lights (particularly halogen) isn't so much due to what they "see" better as much as a combination of that AND conditioning. Impaired drivers cannot divide their attention between tasks such as operating a vehicles' pedals, steering and watching the road. People are conditioned to follow taillights (red, halogen) of the car in front of them. Impaired drivers see red halogen lighs, and focus on "FOLLOW THE CAR, THEY MUST BE GOING THE RIGHT WAY" and by the time it computes (if it computes) that they screwed up, someone else is hurt, maimed, or is killed.

I _hate_ drunk, drug impaired drivers...I'm using the word hate here, about drunk and or drug impaired drivers....hate. Our agency utilizes red, blue, amber, and clear lighting in halogen, and strobe. We put all red lighting on the driver's side of the patrol units for a couple of reasons...one to keep from blinding the officer driving the cruiser while entering and exiting, another is to keep the drunks that approach from behind as close to the appropriate lane of the road as possible. We do this in hopes that should a boogered up driver come along and smack a cruiser, it will hit the rear/or sideswipe the driver's side...our officers are trained to conduct as much of the traffic operation from the passenger side as is possible...hence space is in between.

My $1.25's worth.

[RESCUE161]

Now that makes more sence to me. Thank you for clearing that up.

[007]

BPD's explanation follows the same logic as CHP uses with it's emergency lighting. The light controls are set up in such a way that they use as much blue and amber to the rear as possible, and almost all red to the front. In reality, they hardly use lights at all except when units are responding Code 3, blocking traffic, etc.

As the California residents will attest to, most of the time CHP units on the side of the road will have no lights activated. If there are lights on, they will usually be amber/blue. This method of operation is taught at the academy...it's not officer preference. CHP routinely loses a squad per week due to a rear end collision, and it's usually from a drunk.

[akardam]

I can attest to that. Case in point: Last night when I was going home, I passed two seperate car units (the beauty of the lowband). One was stopped behind a stalled vehicle partially blocking the slow lane. All she had on was her blue rotaters and the amber T/A in flash mode. The second one was conducting a traffic stop right off a pretty blind offramp, and had the same rear blue rotators and T/A going, plus the takedowns on in front.

[kf4sqb]

BPD, as I said, I seem to remember hearing that, but I may be remembering wrong. What you are saying makes sense, but I remember, as I stated earlier, that impaired drivers veer towards BLUE, and away from RED, not the other way around, as you stated. However, as I said, your line of reasoning does make good sense. Kind of like the study done on the 'best' color for fire apperatus. They found that the 'green' color used by some agencies has a higher visibility than the traditional red. However, it was later proven that more wrecks involving other vehicles occured with 'green' than with red trucks. Why? People are conditioned to associate 'red' with an emergency vehicle, not green. People would, after the wreck, report that they "saw the truck, saw the flashing lights, saw the markings on it, but it just didn't register that it was an emergency vehicle untill it was too late. Aren't fire trucks supposed to be red?" In other words, the studies aren't always right!

[jmr3865]

I now believe the more colors the better for Emergency Vehicles, including personal. Sirens are also needed. It's a safety issue. Because you have the lights and sirens does not mean you can disreguard the law, you also need to in the fire truck or ambulance.

[BPD109]

You can have all the light in the world, the loudest siren there is, and the biggest "look at me yellow" truck and people still wont see you. The most effective piece of emergency warning equipment out there is the driver. The truck/cruiser will NEVER be safer than the operator.

Careful, cautious driving at all times is key. Oh, did I mention when the overheads come on that doubles? Yeah, it do. I've seen lots of car wrecks, several including vollies that were running hot to calls...(not that I'm picking on vollies, but MSHP handles wrecks with apparatus/cruisers) and every time it's been due to careless driving. The checklist for safe operation is not as follows:
1. start vehicle
2. start lights/siren
3. disengage brain
4. go like hell

Confucious said it best. "Man who drive like hell, bound to get there." be safe out there.

[Scannerbuff922]

NY:

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/emer-vt.htm#sec375

RED/WHITE: Emergency Vehicles (Ambulances, Fire Apparatus, Chiefs, Paramedic Flycars, Etc)
AMBER: Vehicles Posing a Traffic Hazard (Plows, Wide Loads, Neighboorhood Watch, Tow Trucks, Etc)
BLUE: Volunteer Fire Fighters (As Authorized by the fire chief, use of combination red / blue expressly prohibited on emergency vehicles)
GREEN: Volunteer Ambulance Squad Member (As Authorized by the Department Chief / Director)

BLUE & GREEN are courtesy lights, yielding right of way is not mandatory but greatly appreciated.

NB2E

I would like to give some info on how it siads red/blue prohibited, i don't know when that was but a take a look at these photo's from units in NY state that are Certified Emergency Vehicle's.


http://www.kdlighting.com/installations ... VAC_38.JPG

http://www.kdlighting.com/installations ... VAC_07.JPG
The back of of the lightbars are even blue, white,amber and red. Ambulance Corps. in NY

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... s/9033.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... es/907.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... s/9077.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... es/905.jpg

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... ar3new.jpg

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... 210023.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... 210036.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com/Bethpage%20FD ... 210038.JPG

http://www.bethpagefd.com This is bethpage fire dept. in NY which these photo's above prove that the state law does not prohibit Red/Blue Combo's, Also the other day i was on NY-17 well not called it any more but anyways seen a Marked Slicktop Trooper car with Red/Blue Combo Strobes also going with Red/Amber combo LED's. Now thats coming from a NY State Trooper Car.

[tweekd]

I'm courious about this "low freguency" sire n .. Is it something that is "felt" but not heard ...? Or is like someone with loud bumpin bass music ..?

[Glenn]

Just because Bethpage FD chose to use blue lights doesn't make it legal. Obviously, they don't follow the law. I'm sure the PD won't write them for it though....probably not that important of an issue.

[jedi_saber]

Who cares. It's an emergency vehicle - if you see lights flashing, a siren wailing, get the hell out of the way.
Love the nitpickers that will pull crap like: oh, well, they don't follow the law, so I am not gonna yield and gripe about it. As Glenn correctly noted, not an important issue.

In NY, Albany PD and some smaller departments around Rochester and Syracuse all added one blue flasher in the rear (NY emerg veh all red with optional white/amber). No big deal, people still know it's da PO-lice.

Then of course you have federal agencies in NY that will sport combination red/blue. They are still recognized as emergency vehicles. Granted that from a statutes' point, it's a different story, but most folks on the street won't know that.

[alex]

I know that this topic was started before this forum was created - but this stuff isn't ment to be debated in this forum. The forum on the main page clearly states:

Discussions regarding legalities of lights, usages, and different state laws and regulations regarding warning equipment are not permitted. See the announcement inside the forum for more details.

This topic has gotten to the point where it needed to be stressed that you should use your head and when in doubt yeild...

The fact that this has to be pointed out is just stupid.

-Alex