Thinkpad 380XD - serial port problem in DOS

[g8tzl2004]

I have an "early" Pentium Thinkpad 380XD running Windows 98.

I have successfully used the 380XD to program several Motorolo radios which use Windows CPS/RSS rather than DOS RSS.

However, I have been unable to program either my Saber or Maxtrac using the 380XD with DOS RSS. I am aware that you need to boot into real DOS etc and use the latest "Pentium" compatible RSS. When I used my even older Thinkpad 700 running Windows 3.1 , this worked 100% OK with Sabers/Maxtracs BUT the floppy drive is now playing up and it takes "50" tries to load new software!!

I think the problem with the Thinkpad 380XD is that when using real DOS, the serial port is not recognised. I was getting "Serial Bus Error , #5 power failure" when using real DOS and various error commands when trying to change the COM port using RSS. When using Windows, the serial port is recognised as I can program OK using CPS.

I had a similar sort of problem with a Thinkpad 600E running XP - the 600E defaulted to the IR port rather than serial port and you could not enable the serial port using XP. I had to use a DOS utility (PS2.exe, I think) and this allowed the serial port to be enabled when using XP. Maybe there is a DOS utility that you can use with the 380XD to enable the serial port in real DOS but I've not found any info on the web.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Tom in D.C.]

What you are describing has been beaten to death as a subject previously on this Board. Briefly stated, RSS will not run properly on a computer which is running Windows. The serial port configuration is different when running Windows than when runnning DOS, and the so-called DOS that runs under Windows will not handle RSS correctly. You may even be able to read an RSS radio but you will not be able to write to it. Get and install DOS 6.22, then boot from it, and you'll be able to program anything using RSS with no problems.

[g8tzl2004]

As I said , I am booting into real DOS not running DOS from a Window!!!!! I am using a Win 98 Start Up disk and then pressing Shift F5 - so Windows never boots up - just pure DOS.

But in pure DOS, there is no access to the serial port. Using Windows 98 , the serial port works OK

I just actually replied to my own posting but somehow its got lost. Basically , maybe I just need to disable the IR port???

[Jim202]

The Saber radio wants a REEAALL SLLLOOOOOWWWWW computer to run the program. Maybe down in the range
of 25 MHz or lower. Most of the 486 and some 386 based computers are way too fast. If you can find a 286
computer, it will work. The same will hold tru for the Syntor X9000 radio software. The Sytntor X9000 really
complains on the control head when it does the verify of the data after writing to it.

Jim

As I said , I am booting into real DOS not running DOS from a Window!!!!! I am using a Win 98 Start Up disk and then pressing Shift F5 - so Windows never boots up - just pure DOS.

But in pure DOS, there is no access to the serial port. Using Windows 98 , the serial port works OK

I just actually replied to my own posting but somehow its got lost. Basically , maybe I just need to disable the IR port???

[Bill_G]

Without having your laptop in front of me, it will be hard to diagnose by remote control. But, it sounds like you need to do some basic troubleshooting of the serial port. You should go back through the bios settings to see what the physical com port interrupt assignments are. MODE command will give you current state, and let you set the parameters of the port. You can install a terminal program like Procomm to exercise the port and verify it is accessible under dos, and can be configured.

[g8tzl2004]

Thanks for all the quick feedback.

As suggested, looks like checking the BIOS is the next step. Apparently, Windows does NOT use the BIOS settings (so the serial port works when using CPS) whereas DOS does use the BIOS settings. Therefore if the Serial port is set to OFF in BIOS , the serial port will NOT work when using DOS.

[Bill_G]

Yep. The dog is on the scent.

[AEC]

On many older DOS machines, I found that disabling the IR port helps with DOS recognizing and taking control of the UART that is controlled by DOS.

I've had to do this on 5 different machines, all by different Mfrs as well, and each one, I had to disable the IR port, and shut off CPU caching(if used).

CPU speed changed little, from slow 33mHz machines, to faster 166 PII machines.
Saber RSS(Ro7) worked in all instances.
I just read an old Saber 1 I had on a shelf, and I am using a Toughbook, CF-25 at 166mHz, 1GB Ram...reads and programs fine.
I had to disable my IR port, and shut off CPU caching on this one as well.

Saber cable is homebrew, RIB used: KAWA(7 Yrs. old now).
Fresh Saber battery, and AC/DC converter for the RIB.

OS used: Win. 98SE

[2wayfreq]

I'm having the exact same problem with my 380XD. It turns out, the only way to disable the IR port in the first place is to download the (Windows 95/98 Based) configuration software for the 380XD on Lenovo's site if you don't have it on your system. The DOS configuration software (for all think pads they say)is archaic and does not set up for me. Comm software in Windows 98 works ok. But, when I shut down into DOS mode and run RSS, the COM port will not respond. I too believe that (Windows 98) DOS cannot initialize the Com 1 port without some kind of DOS COM Port initialize script program. So, would just DOS 6.22 work? I hate the Think pad BIOS, not very flexible to say the least. I might have to switch to a Dell Latitude.

[g8tzl2004]

Have you looked in the BIOS to see if COM 1 is switched on ? I've not yet had a chance to experiment with my 380XD

I did previously use the DOS ps2.exe utility to enable the serial port in my Thinkpad 600E running XP. I accessed the DOS utility via "DOS in Windows" - it took a few goes but it did eventually work. Its definately not user friendly and I only managed because I found some brief clear instructions on the internet. The problem with the 600E was that the serial port was NOT switched on in Windows XP (because the IR port was the default ) - its sort of the reverse with the 380XD - the serial port works in Windows 98 but not DOS !!!

[2wayfreq]

I just don't understand why Thinkpads have to be so flaky and inflexible. If its an old serial ported Panasonic, Toshiba,HP,Dell,Compaq,Sony etc., Its just works. Sorry for the Rant.

[motorola_otaku]

As suggested, looks like checking the BIOS is the next step. Apparently, Windows does NOT use the BIOS settings (so the serial port works when using CPS) whereas DOS does use the BIOS settings. Therefore if the Serial port is set to OFF in BIOS , the serial port will NOT work when using DOS.

BINGOBINGOBINGO

I've run into that with all of the Thinkpad laptops I've used as programming machines (two T23s and an A22m currently) - the serial port was turned off in BIOS by default and turning it back on made everything work. With that done, both DOS 6.22 and 7.1 will let you play with RSS. Also, if your CMOS battery dies it'll default you back to serial port off.

[g8tzl2004]

UPDATE

Unlike other IBM Thinkpads, with the 380XD, there is NO option in BIOS to switch on/off the Serial port /IR port.

Instead, you have to use the IBM "PS2 utility" to firstly switch off the IR port and then enable the Serial port.

KD7TS has provided a very useful "Using the IBM PS2 Utility" guide - just search for it.

The PS2 utility might already be installed in your 380XD if it's an unmodded Thinkpad with the original "Thinkpad Config" package installed. However, as my 380XD originally came with no HDD, I just needed to download the utility from the IBM/Lenovo site - its called uttpfdoc.exe - this is a compressed file (but not just zipped up). I saved the uttpfdoc.exe file to the desktop of my main laptop - when you run uttpfdoc.exe it looks to uncompress the file to a floppy disk in drive A. You can change this but it was easier to just send it to a floppy.

I then ran the PS2 utility directly from the floppy drive.

You can check to see if the serial port is DISABLED by typing:

PS2 ? SERA (then press return). It will likely say, "Current state : Disabled"

You then need to DISABLE the IR port by typing :

PS2 IR DISABLE (press return) .... you get a message saying to reboot for command to take effect..but enable serial port first by typing :

PS2 SERA ENABLE (press return) ....then reboot

As mentioned above , READ the KD7TS guide first.

When I then ran my Maxtrax RSS , I was still getting serial port error messages UNTIL I pressed F9 Set Up - F3 PC Config - F9 Reset Defaults.... which seemed to clear out the error messages.

I THINK my 380XD is now good to go for using the serial port under DOS!!!

[Will]

Thanks for the information, it works on my 760 XL.

[fubb26]

worked on my 600E, now if i could figure out how to slow it down enough to run the command plus software i would be golden!

[motorola_otaku]

..now if i could figure out how to slow it down enough to run the command plus software i would be golden!

How fast is it?

I disabled BIOS caching using this: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p395751
on an A22m with a PIII 1.0GHz processor and it slowed it down sufficiently to let STX and Saber read/write cycles work. I haven't tried Syntor X9000 yet but with caching disabled and maybe with MOSLO running I'm cautiously optimistic that it'll work.

[fubb26]

i dont know what speed it is off the top of my head i have to look but i tried cacheoff and moslo at the same time, (and im using the free version of Mo slo need to get the full version) and i couldnt get command plus or X9000 to work. I did get spectra and maxtrac and some of the newer RSS (probally because there Pentium capable) to work!

[g8tzl2004]

I have just had to re-enable the serial port on my Thinkpad 380XD and had to search again for the instructions.

I remembered that I posted info on the Batboard but I can't believe that it was exactly 13 years ago!!!!