New Thales Liberty(tm) Triband Handheld

wd9cms · Post by **wd9cms** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:22 pm

Thales introduced a new triband handheld radio called Liberty(tm)...its covers VHF/UHF/700-800 Analog/P25/Trunking....I want one.

Here is the Weblink.... http://www.thalescomminc.com/liberty/html/home.htm

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:27 pm

wd9cms wrote:Thales introduced a new triband handheld radio called Liberty(tm)...its covers VHF/UHF/700-800 Analog/P25/Trunking....I want one.

Here is the Weblink.... http://www.thalescomminc.com/liberty/html/home.htm

That thing looks like the one to have!!!

I did not go to Vegas this year, I wonder if they had one to show off at IWCE.

Jim

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:37 pm

Looks kind of like a iDEN r750, or a Tetra unit.

Jim

Wicho · Post by **Wicho** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Dare we ask how much?

Post by **akardam** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:25 pm

n7maq wrote:Looks kind of like a iDEN r750, or a Tetra unit.

Jim

Holy conceptual artwork, Batman.

mikegilbert · Post by **mikegilbert** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:44 pm

...leaves room to change pants.

Post by **alex** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:40 pm

Saw and held one in person yesterday - expected end of year for the release. Also saw one with the old Thales interface, and they have it working perfectly on p25 and analog across all 3 bands.

Also, Harris has a tri-band one as well that is out - but the thing weighs a metric ton and wasn't the most user friendly.

I have a couple of photo's of it in the display case which I will try and post sometime before the weekends out.

It's slightly thicker than an XTS, but honestly, it still weighs less than 3 portables.

-Alex

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:43 am

Gotta love the FRS "Roger Beep" on their home page!

libuff · Post by **libuff** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:43 am

uh oh... i know its cold in new york right now, but is hell really freezing over?

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:20 am

Rumored pricing info at this time is $5K per unit.

But, what would you have to pay for three separate
XTS5K radios? And I'm pretty sure the LIberty has
FPP as well. Or does it?

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:53 am

Me wants.

Post by **alex** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:57 am

Yes, it will be 100% FPP for conventional.

The ~5K price tag is accurate as well.

It will be compatible with any 7.x 9600 control channel p25 trunking systems as well.

-Alex

Wicho · Post by **Wicho** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:02 am

Why can't I find one on ebay with a 1c5e flash?

I want one too. Damned nice looking radio IMHO.

Post by **batdude** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:01 am

if the thing works (it did turn on/function at IWCE) - i'm talking "field work" - then it is a VERY serious threat to the 5k line.

i bet M buys Thales

LMAO!

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:56 pm

Dunno...hopefully Thales buys Moto.

Anyway.... I gotta have one of these.

txshooter · Post by **txshooter** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:20 pm

Nice, of course our System Adminstrator would never allow it on our system.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:56 pm

Wicho wrote:Dare we ask how much?

I think the old saying is, " If you have to ask, you can't afford it!"

Yes, I want one, too. But then what? Will Motorola step up its game and build something similar, or is this such a small, niche market that it is not even worthwhile to build a competing radio? Will they have a companion mobile? Of course in the mobile environment it is easier to have multiple radios.

Post by **Grog** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:06 pm

Jim1348 wrote:
Will Motorola step up its game and build something similar?

Yeah, now they can bring the FT2070 design back from the dead, except it will cost $2000 with no upgrades except for $400 software and a /\/\ on the case

libuff · Post by **libuff** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:20 pm

i'll be honest about the niche market question and moto... Moto is making BIG bucks on selling trunking systems with the key word "interoperability" because of this, i will assume that they will not follow Thales. why buy a $5000 portable, when u can purchase a $40 million system and just put everyone on the system, oh, and the portables are in excess of $2000 also.

So, that seems to be the approach that moto takes...

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:21 am

Awesome looking...the volume knob placement against the channel selector looks a bit close though
but no doubt the feature set is going to be a best out there. Now if it only did the 3600cc /\/\ protocol.

I wonder if its a quad band antenna or do you have to change it out depending on the band of choice.

Post by **alex** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:43 am

KS4VT wrote:Awesome looking...the volume knob placement against the channel selector looks a bit close though
but no doubt the feature set is going to be a best out there. Now if it only did the 3600cc /\/\ protocol.

I wonder if its a quad band antenna or do you have to change it out depending on the band of choice.

They specially engineered the antenna to cover the band splits of the radio. Antenna performance was a key issue of theirs.

I doubt they will support 3600 control channels. I think this goes along the same line as MDC1200 in Thales radios. Thales approached Motorola and specifically asked about licensing MDC1200. Motorola said they did not want to license the old technology since they didn't want to phase it into anything nor did they have an interest in supporting the protocol. The same could potentially have been said for 3600cc trunking.

However, they did remark that they are trying to make it a "Standards" radio. They want it to work 100% with the standards that are out there. It being a software defined radio (SDR) means that they really can add anything to it if customers demand it, but like everything in this world, you really need a lot of demand.

-Alex

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:31 am

Works for me...thanks for the clarifications.

Mark

Post by **xmo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:44 am

"...Will Motorola step up its game and build something similar ...?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You might want to attend this year's APCO.....

libuff · Post by **libuff** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:08 am

howabout everyone on batlabs get together and we get bulk pricing?

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:05 pm

Motorola couldn't ever dream of buying Thales if they wanted to.

Post by **alex** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:14 pm

libuff wrote:howabout everyone on batlabs get together and we get bulk pricing?

We have a couple people who are in direct contact with a couple of the folks at Thales and have laid the ground work for a good relationship with them. If "community" pricing is something that becomes a reality, then I will let everyone know when it gets close to release date.

-Alex

Terry_Glover · Post by **Terry_Glover** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:33 pm

I'll be looking forward to that, if it can be arranged.

That damned radio is the epitome of testosterone...

Dan562 · Post by **Dan562** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:30 pm

Jim1348 wrote: Will Motorola step up its game and build something similar?

It's funny you should ask this question. Back in 2002 the Motorola DoD Account Representative approached the Subscriber Marketing personnel to ask the same question only the DoD wanted Type 1 encryption included. The response from MOTOROLA's Subscriber Marketing personnel was a flat out NO, they told the Motorola DoD Account Representative, "We have VHF / UHF / 800 / 900 and if the military can not deal with these frequencies, then it's too bad for them!" The Motorola DoD Account Representative was fit to be tied with this response and now had to go back and inform our U.S. Federal Government DoD Generals the bad news.

Thus our DoD Generals went to Thales and asked the same question. Thales responded, "Sure we can do this request" and our DoD placed an order for 1 Million Handheld units from Thales. The current inept MOTOROLA Marketing Groups have their heads buried so far into the sand or where the sunshine never shines, it's pitaful!

Last Friday February 29, 2008 MOTOROLA's Stock Closed at $10 Per Share! You would think their Marketing personnel would wake up and smell the coffee but they are so stuck on themselves that Thales, Raytheon, EF Johnson, ICOM, Kenwood & M/A-com will pass them by at hyper-speed before the Circle M Ranch hands know what happened. The present MOTOROLA Corporate Management can not even sell their Cellular Engineering Products Segment to any company around the world so "What are the odds that they will change their minds on Designing, Developing. Marketing and Selling a Multi-Band Subscriber Portable Handheld? Slim or None?

Nexrad16 · Post by **Nexrad16** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:58 pm

Which vocoder does it use?

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:11 pm

If that ever becomes reality then I can tell you there will be at least two more FPP XTS5000 and 2500's on ebay. I'll dump it all just to have one good do it all product.

alex wrote:
libuff wrote:howabout everyone on batlabs get together and we get bulk pricing?
We have a couple people who are in direct contact with a couple of the folks at Thales and have laid the ground work for a good relationship with them. If "community" pricing is something that becomes a reality, then I will let everyone know when it gets close to release date.

-Alex

silverbk · Post by **silverbk** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:37 pm

Motorola has to run Vertex into the ground before they can set their sites on Thales.

If you can't compete then buy them out.

RADIO43 · Post by **RADIO43** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:44 pm

Great looking radio, but maybe I missed it. MDC-1200 or no MDC-1200 in the radio?

Post by **alex** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:27 pm

RADIO43 wrote:Great looking radio, but maybe I missed it. MDC-1200 or no MDC-1200 in the radio?

Read up above - I covered that.

mikegilbert · Post by **mikegilbert** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:24 am

mancow wrote:If that ever becomes reality then I can tell you there will be at least two more FPP XTS5000 and 2500's on ebay. I'll dump it all just to have one good do it all product.

x2

Alex663 · Post by **Alex663** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:29 pm

alex wrote:It will be compatible with any 7.x 9600 control channel p25 trunking systems as well.
-Alex

Alex,

Just for clarification..... You're saying this will be compatible with Motorola's "proprietary" 7.1 System? Currently South Carolina has a 4.X smartzone system and permits only Motorola and EFJohnson radio's on it. Beginning this year they will begin transitioning to a 7.X 9600Baud smartzone system, are you telling me that Thales received licensing from Motorola for these systems?

If so, that is great news! And I'll be selling my XTS3000 VHF Model III, XTS5000 UHF Model III, and XTS3000 800Mhz Model II for sale..... Any interested buyers?

-The other Alex

libuff · Post by **libuff** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:52 pm

thinking deeply about the potential $5k sticker price (and how to explain it to my wife), i've figured on this..

Take My companies XTS-2500 on a trunking system, figure $2k for that...
Take another XTS-2500 VHF Conventional, easily $1600...
and i use an XTS-2500 UHF P25, another $2k+ or so... thats more than the $5k sticker price...

what do we think about the VHF and UHF splits? or does it depict it on the info site...

Post by **Grog** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:00 pm

libuff wrote:
what do we think about the VHF and UHF splits? or does it depict it on the info site...

It shows 380-520

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:37 pm

Alex663 wrote:
alex wrote:It will be compatible with any 7.x 9600 control channel p25 trunking systems as well.
-Alex
Alex,

Just for clarification..... You're saying this will be compatible with Motorola's "proprietary" 7.1 System? Currently South Carolina has a 4.X smartzone system and permits only Motorola and EFJohnson radio's on it. Beginning this year they will begin transitioning to a 7.X 9600Baud smartzone system, are you telling me that Thales received licensing from Motorola for these systems?

If so, that is great news! And I'll be selling my XTS3000 VHF Model III, XTS5000 UHF Model III, and XTS3000 800Mhz Model II for sale..... Any interested buyers?

-The other Alex

No, Thales didnt need to license anything from Motorola..

Motorola's 7.X release systems are not proprietary. They are fully P25 compliant, (minus such things as POP25, TMS, ADP, etc which are value added, and detract from the "spec".) What this radio will not do is legacy smartnet and smartzone systems. While the smartzone trademark lingers, version 6 and 7 release systems are open to using subscribers from any P25 vendor, providing your friendly system manager allows them on the network.

Alex663 · Post by **Alex663** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:50 am

Jason wrote: No, Thales didnt need to license anything from Motorola..

Motorola's 7.X release systems are not proprietary. They are fully P25 compliant, (minus such things as POP25, TMS, ADP, etc which are value added, and detract from the "spec".) What this radio will not do is legacy smartnet and smartzone systems. While the smartzone trademark lingers, version 6 and 7 release systems are open to using subscribers from any P25 vendor, providing your friendly system manager allows them on the network.

Thanks Jason. Unfortionately my state is going to be slow about switching from 4.x to 7.x so I may have to hang onto my XTS radio a little longer. I was not aware that 7.X systems had to meet P25 standards that would open up users to other vendors. That sure would help drive down costs around here if Motorola doesn't have a monopoly on our radio system.

Post by **Wowbagger** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:45 am

Alex663 wrote: Beginning this year they will begin transitioning to a 7.X 9600Baud smartzone system....

...

I was not aware that 7.X systems had to meet P25 standards that would open up users to other vendors. That sure would help drive down costs around here if Motorola doesn't have a monopoly on our radio system.

The key here is the fact that the system is a 9600 bit per second control channel - that means the control channel is a standard APCO-25 CAI 4800 baud 4 level FM channel, not the Motorola proprietary 3600 baud 2 level FM control channel.

Post by **CAPTLPOL** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:14 pm

The question is now does your system require you to use some of the proprietary formats even on a 7.1xx system that you are using? If you are not then this fancy Thales may still not be for you. You can bet
Ma /\/\ will sell a bill of goods for their add ons as well.

Post by **alex** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:57 am

DHS Contracts Thales for Multiband Radio Project (2/27)

The public-safety community's long-standing request for a multiband radio could be close to becoming fulfilled through a new $6.3 million contract between the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Thales Communications. At a demonstration at the International Wireless Communications Expo (IWCE), officials demonstrated a Thales radio talking with four other manufacturers' radios in four spectrum bands.

The radio communicated with Kenwood, M/A-COM, EFJohnson and Motorola radios at VHF low and high bands, UHF, 700 MHz and 800 MHz. Dr. David Boyd, director of the DHS Science and Technology's command, control and interoperability (CCI) division, said the radio would be ideal for command and control during a major emergency that involved numerous local, state and federal agencies.

DHS and Thales will hold pilot projects throughout the year with public-safety users with production scheduled for year-end, said Steve Nichols, Thales marketing communications manager. The software-defined radio (SDR) will cost from $4,000 to $6,000 and is equal to other Project 25 (P25) radios in cost, size and weight, officials said.

Boyd said he has spoken with other vendors about a multiband radio, but Thales was the first company to meet DHS requirements. He noted that although Thales was awarded a contract, the manufacturer "came in with a significant investment."

Jesse Cooper, communications and information technology project manager for the city of Phoenix Police Department, said he had to carry three different radios during the Super Bowl earlier this year to communicate with all the agencies involved at the event. "We've very excited to have a radio for command-and-control purposes," he said. "We have regional interoperability, but it's not easy."

"We are committed to identifying innovative technologies aligned with the communications needs of first responders," Boyd said. "By enabling seamless radio communications among multiple agencies, the multiband radio project represents a significant milestone in overcoming the communications challenges our nation's emergency responders face during large-scale disasters."

The contract has a performance period of 12 months, and CCI will manage the multiband radio demonstration to determine how well the technology meets the critical needs of frontline emergency responders.

Officials noted that while the P25 Inter RF Subsystem Interface (ISSI) works to address network interoperability, the Thales device would help address device interoperability.

http://www.thalescomminc.com/media/DHSH ... elease.pdf

Nexrad16 · Post by **Nexrad16** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:53 pm

Thales reports that they use the enhanced vocoder by DVSI.

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:57 am

Wow,
Our county is in the process of upgrading from analog EDACS to Motorola 7.x. sometime in late 2010. We are going 700/800/VHF P-25. And, from 18 sites to 60ish. The powers that be will not reveal much on the radio hardware (still vaporware). It appears either Motorola will develop its own tri-bander HH/Mobiles for us or use Liberty under some kind of license agreement perhaps ? Anyone have a prediction? Thanks

CPD534 · Post by **CPD534** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:21 am

I'm in if the bulk deal happens. Just what I'm needing

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:18 pm

Am in on that bulk deal if that happens too..

How's the receive on that radio anyways? and long does it take to tune that radio on a service monitor

Post by **Wowbagger** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:12 am

Dale Earnhardt wrote:Am in on that bulk deal if that happens too..

How's the receive on that radio anyways? and long does it take to tune that radio on a service monitor

It obviously depends upon what service monitor you are using...

(I ought to see if one of the sales guys can sweet talk the Thales guys into giving us one for testing...)

rodell · Post by **rodell** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:25 pm

I'm in for one, and, I'll "deposit" a whole lotta "M" radios.

Actually, I'm pretty sick of them (software, parts pricing, depot repair (or not), snotty reps), overall.

If $ is needed to get to a bulk buy, I'll pay up front for mine.

Bob

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:52 pm

If they were smart they would extend some sort of offer to this board just for the publicity. I think the power and visibility of this place is underestimated.

N9LLO · Post by **N9LLO** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:17 am

I have found Thales very difficult to deal with. They wont even sell parts to individuals to maintain their radios. They also seem to play price games with their accessories, those percieved to be potential customers for new product are given prices 50% or more lower than us lowly user/owners. My price for the clamshell battery pack on the Thales website is $290 The actual price they extend to others is $109 I guess with large government contracts they dont need to spread any goodwill to the general public. At least Motorola has done some of this over the years such as Ham modified RSS and shift key tricks for out of band entry. And parts are easy to get. When I got my Thales 25 radio I figured I would not need my Astro Saber any more. I think I will keep it since parts are not avaliable for the T25. The flat rate repair on the T25 if needed would be more than I paid for it.

Chris
N9LLO