Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

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EindhovenOne
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Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by EindhovenOne »

Hey, all. As the title suggests, I was wondering if there was any way to mod the XTS series 800MHz radios to TX at higher than 3W? Is this software controlled somewhere in the codeplug or the CPS or is it hardware limited? I am comfortable modifying codeplugs and hex-editing the codeplugs/CPS if need be. Thank you all in advance for your time. -E
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tvsjr
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by tvsjr »

Even if you could, why would you want to? The PA isn't built for that, the radio isn't certified for that, you will dramatically increase power consumption, and you aren't going to dramatically increase performance even if you double the power (that's 3dB).
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Astro Spectra
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Astro Spectra »

What antenna are you using?
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EindhovenOne
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by EindhovenOne »

tvsjr wrote:Even if you could, why would you want to? The PA isn't built for that, the radio isn't certified for that, you will dramatically increase power consumption, and you aren't going to dramatically increase performance even if you double the power (that's 3dB).
My part time job runs a conventional 800MHz system which really isn't ideal for the layout of the town. There are some drastic elevation changes and the site of the tower is further not ideal. This is a police department in a decently populated town and we are pretty busy. This question was asked to me by a few of my co-workers because we have some coverage issues with the portables in certain parts of town. I already know that the VHF and UHF models go to 5W so I didn't know if this was software or hardware defined and figured it would be worth a try if nothing else.
Astro Spectra wrote:What antenna are you using?
We all use the OEM whip antenna.
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MTS2000des
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by MTS2000des »

Try an NAF4000B elevated feed dipole antenna. Yes, it will tickle your armpit but it is about the best 800MHz portable antenna Motorola sells.

http://www.actioncommunications.com/mm5 ... s-motorola

I'd go that route before messing with the tuning in your radio. As others have said, squeezing a few more mW might kill it and won't really give you any benefit. A better antenna, OTOH, will.
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Bill_G
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Bill_G »

EindhovenOne wrote:
tvsjr wrote:Even if you could, why would you want to? The PA isn't built for that, the radio isn't certified for that, you will dramatically increase power consumption, and you aren't going to dramatically increase performance even if you double the power (that's 3dB).
My part time job runs a conventional 800MHz system which really isn't ideal for the layout of the town. There are some drastic elevation changes and the site of the tower is further not ideal. This is a police department in a decently populated town and we are pretty busy. This question was asked to me by a few of my co-workers because we have some coverage issues with the portables in certain parts of town. I already know that the VHF and UHF models go to 5W so I didn't know if this was software or hardware defined and figured it would be worth a try if nothing else.
Astro Spectra wrote:What antenna are you using?
We all use the OEM whip antenna.
This is what voting systems are for especially when terrain coupled with urban clutter limit the inbound coverage. Doubling the power of a portable will gain whisper thin additional area. You need to increase by a factor of 10 or better to see subscribers report significant improvement in an area. You'll never achieve that in a portable. They need multiple receivers strategically placed throughout the intended service area that tie back to a comparator at the head end. Not cheap, but it's something they can put into the five year budget planning.
turtle9832
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by turtle9832 »

RSM or PSM?

Vast majority use RSM in our area for your application.

I believe you could do a PSM which would bring your antenna up higher when in the car.
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EindhovenOne
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by EindhovenOne »

Bill_G wrote:
EindhovenOne wrote:
tvsjr wrote:Even if you could, why would you want to? The PA isn't built for that, the radio isn't certified for that, you will dramatically increase power consumption, and you aren't going to dramatically increase performance even if you double the power (that's 3dB).
My part time job runs a conventional 800MHz system which really isn't ideal for the layout of the town. There are some drastic elevation changes and the site of the tower is further not ideal. This is a police department in a decently populated town and we are pretty busy. This question was asked to me by a few of my co-workers because we have some coverage issues with the portables in certain parts of town. I already know that the VHF and UHF models go to 5W so I didn't know if this was software or hardware defined and figured it would be worth a try if nothing else.
Astro Spectra wrote:What antenna are you using?
We all use the OEM whip antenna.
This is what voting systems are for especially when terrain coupled with urban clutter limit the inbound coverage. Doubling the power of a portable will gain whisper thin additional area. You need to increase by a factor of 10 or better to see subscribers report significant improvement in an area. You'll never achieve that in a portable. They need multiple receivers strategically placed throughout the intended service area that tie back to a comparator at the head end. Not cheap, but it's something they can put into the five year budget planning.
I'll never understand why they have it setup like they do. It is really goofy because all of our portables are XTS2500's flashed for Smartzone and digital trunking, and they neighboring town has had an 800MHz analog Smartzone system in place for years and years but nobody does the smart thing and suggests or considers expanding that system and getting our own talkgroups.
turtle9832 wrote:RSM or PSM?

Vast majority use RSM in our area for your application.

I believe you could do a PSM which would bring your antenna up higher when in the car.
Everyone uses an RSM. The vehicle radios have little trouble hitting the repeater and receiving traffic which is why I went straight to thinking it could be solved by power increase. I have given a few of the guys the PSM but the straight cord has gotten mainly negative feedback because of the way they wear their mics.
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Bill_G
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Bill_G »

EindhovenOne wrote:I'll never understand why they have it setup like they do. It is really goofy because all of our portables are XTS2500's flashed for Smartzone and digital trunking, and they neighboring town has had an 800MHz analog Smartzone system in place for years and years but nobody does the smart thing and suggests or considers expanding that system and getting our own talkgroups.
So, you're subscribers on another system? Not much you can do.
Squad5
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Squad5 »

EindhovenOne wrote: My part time job runs a conventional 800MHz system which really isn't ideal for the layout of the town. There are some drastic elevation changes and the site of the tower is further not ideal. This is a police department in a decently populated town and we are pretty busy. This question was asked to me by a few of my co-workers because we have some coverage issues with the portables in certain parts of town. I already know that the VHF and UHF models go to 5W so I didn't know if this was software or hardware defined and figured it would be worth a try if nothing else.
I think they are on their own but suggests maybe going to the neighboring towns system.
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EindhovenOne
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by EindhovenOne »

Squad5 wrote:
EindhovenOne wrote: My part time job runs a conventional 800MHz system which really isn't ideal for the layout of the town. There are some drastic elevation changes and the site of the tower is further not ideal. This is a police department in a decently populated town and we are pretty busy. This question was asked to me by a few of my co-workers because we have some coverage issues with the portables in certain parts of town. I already know that the VHF and UHF models go to 5W so I didn't know if this was software or hardware defined and figured it would be worth a try if nothing else.
I think they are on their own but suggests maybe going to the neighboring towns system.
Correct. We are on our own conventional system but for whatever reason our radios are flashed already for Smartzone and digital trunking. It is like they had the idea in their head to get onto the other system, if not create their own, but it has never been and doesn't have plans to be.
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EindhovenOne
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by EindhovenOne »

Bill_G wrote:
EindhovenOne wrote:I'll never understand why they have it setup like they do. It is really goofy because all of our portables are XTS2500's flashed for Smartzone and digital trunking, and they neighboring town has had an 800MHz analog Smartzone system in place for years and years but nobody does the smart thing and suggests or considers expanding that system and getting our own talkgroups.
So, you're subscribers on another system? Not much you can do.
No, sir. I was suggesting that I don't know why we don't just setup additional infrastructure to get onto that system since our radios are already flashed and provisioned to work on such a system. We are 100% 800MHz analog conventional repeater.
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Bill_G
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Bill_G »

EindhovenOne wrote:
Bill_G wrote:
EindhovenOne wrote:I'll never understand why they have it setup like they do. It is really goofy because all of our portables are XTS2500's flashed for Smartzone and digital trunking, and they neighboring town has had an 800MHz analog Smartzone system in place for years and years but nobody does the smart thing and suggests or considers expanding that system and getting our own talkgroups.
So, you're subscribers on another system? Not much you can do.
No, sir. I was suggesting that I don't know why we don't just setup additional infrastructure to get onto that system since our radios are already flashed and provisioned to work on such a system. We are 100% 800MHz analog conventional repeater.
Well then, that's a cat of a different color. A voting system is exactly what you need.
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N4DES
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by N4DES »

Bill_G wrote: Well then, that's a cat of a different color. A voting system is exactly what you need.
I would no doubt agree. If the other agencies multi-coupler has an open port they can request to utilize it for a satellite receiver and do an RNTC line to a newly purchased voter and have the levels optomized, etc. and that might help as long as the adjacent system is in the general direction of the coverage deficiencies. If the adjacent system is not in the general area then they are required to find a new location and go through the pain of creating a lease and all that other fun stuff.
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Bill_G
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Re: Any mod to push the 800MHz XTS's past 3W???

Post by Bill_G »

I think he means they have a 800M conventional repeater. Their radios are capable of participating in a neighboring trunking system, but they aren't programmed for it. I think that's what he means.
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