Compact SUV purchase help

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:30 am

Hi Folks

I currently use a four door sedan for EM/Disaster/Rescue response and I am looking to replace it with a compact SUV. I will not be considering the usual mid/full size Ford or GM SUV. I will need this vehicle to get to work everyday too so reliability and mileage are critical. I have narrowed it down to the Honda CRV LX with manual tranny or a Saturn VUE FWD/4cyl/manual tranny. I will need the vehicle to carry USAR and medical equipment when responding. In addition, I will install some lights [grill and taffic director] and a portable radio charger. Anyone with experience or an opinion on which vehicle may be better suited than the other. Thanks to all for your advice.

Tech225 · Post by **Tech225** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:52 am

Have you considered the Jeep Liberty? Relatively small but lots of interior room.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:54 am

stay as far away from the C-RV as possible!

One agency I work for purchased a couple as an experiment instead of our usual Ford Explorer patrol vehicle.

Maintenance issues are awful. The 2002 C-RV has had intermitant electrical problems while the 98 and 2000 models have had terrible transmission failures.

We scrapped one after it went through 4 transmissions in 8 months and the replacement is already on its second.

The eletrical system on the C-RV is also a joke. Its weak with a tiny alternator. You might get by with LED lights with low current draw, but the vehicle isn't meant to be more than grocery getter by any means

We're done with this stupid experiment and wouldn't touch another C-RV with a ten foot pole.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:02 am

Go for the Honda. The CRV is a great SUV and will still be running in ten years. They also hold their value very well so when you want to sell it, you've get more of your money back. I'd take a CRV over the Jeep evertime, just go drive one, your see what I mean. The Jeeps crap, everone that I've been in has been less then a year old and already had all kinds of crap wrong with it. The Saturn I haven't driven, so I can't say much about it.

Cam

jim · Post by **jim** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:48 pm

I'll vote for the Jeep. It has a REAL drivetrain, chassis and suspension. The Honda has a front wheel drive's drivetrain with a jackshaft running to the rearend with a weak, stamped sheetmetal suspension (as does the TOYota).
Like all Hondas, they are reliable, but disposable pieces of light-duty scrap that are good for no more than mom driving to the grocery store or soccer practice.

The Jeep's engine also produces usable torque unlike anything from Honda. Brag all you want about peak HP, but torque is what moves the vehicle and gets you through a foot of snow.

The bottom line is: if you need something cute that gets good fuel economy, buy the Honda.

If you are really set on buying a 4WD "car", why not just get a Subaru Legacy? At least they have a proven record of reliability and don't have 10 recalls per year like Hondas do.

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:58 am

Hi Folks

First, thanks to all who responded with their advice. I have considered long and hard and still I am undecided. I neglected to mention that this will also be a personal vehicle so that I do not have the financial luxury to experiment and try one vehicle first and then another. I have strongly considered the Jeep Liberty in my initial research, however I crossed it off my list since the gas mileage in this vehicle was not optimal. Although the Jeep does have strengths, it is a true 'off road' vehicle with excellent torque. In comparison the CRV and VUE are considered soft roaders. The torque in the VUE is weak while in the CRV it is comparable to the Liberty. 2002 is the first year this generation of CRV was introduced, I am hoping that the electrical problems that were encountered are typical bugs of any vehicle in its first year. As for the weak alternator, that is a serious concern and I will need to more closely examine this issue. Perhaps an Optima yellow top battery may solve the problem. I will definitely take the advice of apco25 not to install heavy amp draw equipment. As for the use of this vehicle it will be used as an response vehicle rather than light or medium duty rescue. So I think the key issue is that the vehicle be able to travel in inclement weather and perhaps navigate on soft grassy or muddy roads. In the long run the reliability and resale value may be the deciding factors. Again, let me thank everyone who responded and I shall post a conclusion to this in the next couple of months.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:47 am

Why not look at a Ford ESCAPE? Same class of light SUV and should be pretty similiar on gas mileage and such.

TomSlick · Post by **TomSlick** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:58 am

I have one of the first CR-V delivered in my area back in 1997. I've never heard of electrical issues beyond some isolated minor problems with door lock solenoids (never had a problem with mine). The electrical system is not "heavy duty", but it held up to fog lights, driving lights and a Syntor X9000 on mine.

Would I buy one as a dedicated public safety vehicle for a fire or EMS agency? Probably not, though they have been used for that (I have web images somewhere of one being used as a Medic Responder in the UK). As a personal vehicle, I love it. It's been 100% reliable, with reasonable mileage and comfort. Handles bad weather quite well, and the visibility and ground clearance are good.

Check out http://www.hondasuv.com for the best information about CR-Vs (first and second generation), along with the other Honda SUVs. if there are any problems (TSBs, etc.) with these vehicles, the folks there know about them. You'll probably also find a few folks in their forums using them in similar ways to what you have in mind.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:25 pm

i agree the CRV are not set up to be used except for by a Soccer Moms to get kids to school and crap.

Myvote
the chevy tracker is not bad.

or get a Blazer they are built on the same frame as the s10

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:02 pm

KitN1MCC wrote:i agree the CRV are not set up to be used except for by a Soccer Moms to get kids to school and crap.

Myvote
the chevy tracker is not bad.

or get a Blazer they are built on the same frame as the s10

Wow
Really thats all I can say.

Are you trying to say that you would pick a Tracker over a CRV?
What have you been smoken buddy?

Some people

Cam

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:06 pm

jim wrote:
The Jeep's engine also produces usable torque unlike anything from Honda. Brag all you want about peak HP, but torque is what moves the vehicle and gets you through a foot of snow.

0-60 Acceleration
Honda CR-V 8.7 sec.*
Ford Escape 8.9 sec.*
Mazda Tribute 8.9 sec.*
Subaru Forester 9.3 sec.
Jeep Wrangler 9.8 sec.*
Jeep Liberty 10.0 sec.*
Saturn VUE 10.2 sec.
Toyota RAV4 10.2 sec.
Hyundai Santa Fe 10.3 sec.*
Nissan Xterra 10.9 sec.*

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:24 am

Hi folks,

Thanks again for all your input. I have followed up on all of your advice. I have looked at the Jeep Liberty and Ford Escape. Gas mileage is a critical issue thus the Liberty was eliminated as a choice, the Ford Excape while comparable to the CRV and superior in some respects sufferred from many recalls during production, hence reliability has been a concern. I have also checked out a Toyota RAV4 and the cargo space was smaller than the rest of the class. I believe the Chevy Blazer has been replaced by the full size Trailblazer. The Tracker is really a Suzuki in GM disguise. Horsepower is not really a concern since I don't think it is safe to do pursuit type driving in any SUV type vehicle, the chance of rollover and the handling characteristics are not the same as in a properly outfitted sedan. Handling in poor driving conditions is a key issue so I am sticking with a manual tranny that will offer some more roadhandling control. I have even found a website demonstrating a Honda CRV being used as a paramedic response vehicle in the UK. It is a press release from Honda.UK with a nice downloadable picture of the fully dressed CRV. Enjoy.

http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/hondauk/ ... 375hon.htm

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:21 am

All I can say is I wouldn 't use a CRV for anything, old or new body style. the maintenance problems have been terrible. Honda itself won't would not and could not fix most of the problems.

The electrical system is known to be weak so much so Honda say not to add anything to it.

The transmission failures are just obscene with the last one failing in traffic a couple weeks ago.

We're going to dump these POS vehicles at the end of this year.

Another suggestion would be to go buy the last year of the Blazer (2003) new or find a year or two old one on the used market.

And just what does the acceleration table prove? The vehicles you have listed vary extensively by weight with the CRV being one of the lightest.

So? Its not an equal comparison.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:55 pm

you should also look at the isuzu. the v-cross looks like it can get very tough. i saw ones jacked up with 35in mudders

plus they have a few other models as well

Nand · Post by **Nand** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:59 pm

I wouldn’t make to much fun of the Tracker. It is not the greatest looking thing, but it hasn’t failed me yet. There are lots of minor items I don’t like about it, features or the lack of them that you only find out after you use it for a while. I have about 50,000 miles on it in less than 1 1/2 years. It still has the original tires that I use summer and (Canadian) winter. The four-wheel drive design is antique but solid. It has a real frame and drives fairly comfortable. And even though it is mostly Suzuki, it is made north of Toronto, Canada.
Would I get another one? Not likely, unless the price is right.

Nand.

familo77 · Post by **familo77** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:07 am

Well, since purchasing an SUV that doesn't have the traditional "tough-guy" appeal is not an issue here, have you looked at the new Subaru Forester? I was extremely skeptical of this little beast until I had one as a loaner car. Lots of room, good on gas, and it handled really well. My buddy has one as a vol. firefighter vehicle and beats it hard. No problems yet to speak of, and maintanence on these is really inexpensive. You might want to check it out. Plus, it doesn't look as lame as the RAV, CRV, or God forbid the Trakker. Good Luck!

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:26 am

Well, if you are willing to consider a used vehicle, get a 2 or 3 year old low mile Jeep Cherokee XJ. The XJ is the brute of small-mid size SUV's. torque filled 4.0 inline six that thinks its a V8 but still gets good milage, nice small compact size but still plenty of room inside, and a real solid front axle, something you don't find on a lot of 1 ton trucks.

The day Jeep switched to the soccer mom Liberty the last real small SUV was lost. I love my XJ, and will keep driving one from now one, just keep rebuilding them as I go. For off road ability, durability, power, interior room and reliability in a small package, they have no equal.

The only downside is it takes a little imagination to get more than a couple of radios mounted unless you pull out the factory console storage.

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:36 pm

FYI - I drove a Saturn VUE as a patrol vehicle and it sucked a$#. It is no more of a SUV than any other saturn car. How about this---it is a 4wd sedan. Thing has NO ground clearance. I took it over a few big bumps and it bottomed out so much that I felt scare for my job (b/c of the damage). I thought it was going to blow apart.

Why not a TrailBlazer or a Exploder? I think one of the Japanese companies makes a full size SUV comparable to an Expedition that is modestly priced.

Just a thought...

(i drive a '97 suburban)

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:52 am

Hello All,

Thanks again for all of your input, I have also perused other review websites regarding the VUE and CRV and based on what I have read and your inputs I have decided to go with the CRV. I will have to order the vehicle since I want the LX-manual transmission model. No privacy glass and sunroof will make installation and mounting of equipment easier. Since I will be mostly using this as my commuter vehicle everyday ease of use was a priority in my final decision. Apco25, I know you have had negative experiences with them and your advice did weigh heavily in my decision but I am going to take a chance that the third year run doesn't have these problems., especially with a manual transmission. Chipjumper thanks for sharing your firsthand experience with the VUE, I was still on the fence but after your words it made the choice easier. I will keep you all posted on the final outcome and equipment installs.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:48 pm

Hopefully you have better results than we did. I will say the new body style were slightly better than the old body, but not much. at least they made the interiors nicer. I would look into getting a larger capacity alternator if at all possible. I doubt honda has anything larger so check out some aftermarket alternator companies.

central150 · Post by **central150** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:39 am

Sportage

Post by **CAPTLPOL** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:58 pm

Well I should have read this post earlier. I would recomend a Chevrolet Tracker for your application. It is a Suzuki with a Chevrolet badge. The vehicle is built on a solid ladder-frame. The vehicle is reliable and capable. It is now offered and only available with a V6 for MY 2004. Their is still ample supply of MY 2003 with the I4 left, however. One can even get factory leather in a Tracker. As a note, the Blazer is still available today as a 2004 model. The only thing not avialble is the LT version of the Blazer.

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:14 am

Hi Folks,

As promised I would update you all with my decision. I have settled on the Honda CRV-LX AWD with manual transmission. The exterior is black with a black interior and I will be picking it up in a few days. There is no privacy glass so that installation of warning lights will bypass the hassle of getting adequate light through tint. I was wondering if anyone out there who has done some installation work on a CRV or something similar who could offer some pointers out to me. I am aware that I will not need to drill through the firewall since there is a pre drilled accessory hole somewhere in the left front fender well that just needs to have its plug removed. Since it is a manual transmission I do lose some center console space. I am planning to install a motorola vehicle battery charger, vehicle speaker, grill lights, speaker and air horn, and rear warning lights/traffic director. Thanks

TomSlick · Post by **TomSlick** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:58 pm

Head over to the CR-V forums at http://www.hondasuv.com. The folks there know every inch of CR-Vs, and some of them have done 2-way installs. (They've installed just about every other kind of accessory, inside and out!)

(I'd offer my two cent's worth, having installed radios in my V but it's a generation 1, so it probably wouldn't apply to your gen 2.)

gtl7001 · Post by **gtl7001** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:55 am

Sorry it has been quite a while since I have posted my progress. I have picked up a black 2004 CRV-LX with a manual tranny. I have installed a Dynamax speaker with Whelen airhorn, Firebeam halogen dashlight and for the rear I have opted to mount a pair of dual Talons, instead of my original plan of a traffic director. I have also installed a Motorola battery charger.

I guess I will outline in detail my progress notes for anyone who may wish to perform a similar application. Apco25 you were right that the stock electrical system would be weak. So I have rectifiy the situation by installing an Optima yellow top battery, this seems to power everything in the vehicle. Since I am not using this vehicle as a dedicated response car I think the Optima battery will suffice for now and I will not look into a more powerful alternator.

Tomslick you were right about that website, I was able to find some interesting information. From the website I was able to get installation instructions for some of the OEM accessorries. I found out that there is a predrilled hole in the left front fender right above the kick panel. This saved on drilling through the firewall and made the install of wires look factory fresh.

In the process of routing the wires through the left front fender I found a bumper crossbeam where I was able to mount the speaker, this crossbeam sits right behind the left factory mount foglight hole so if you have foglights installed you will not be able to use this position. This was an ideal location since it concealed the speaker and still allows extremely loud sound penetration.

The rear warning lights were mounted on the rear door frame via double sided tape and then reinforced by silicone on the mounting brackets. I chose not to use the suction cups on the window since the window opens and slams shut. Also I did not try to screw in the brackets since the plastic on the door frame seemed weak.

The firebeam sits on the center of the dash via velcro, and the airhorn switch is mounted on the instrument panel, right of and below the steering wheel column.

Finally the Motorola battery charger sits on the floor and is mounted at the end of the manual tranny console right between the seats. There is a flip
up/down center table that also hides the charger/radio from prying eyes.

I wish I can post pictures but right now I don't have the capabilities to do so. As soon as I can I will. Again, thanks to everyone who offered their advice and knowledge.

SlimBob · Post by **SlimBob** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:34 am

0-60 Acceleration
Honda CR-V 8.7 sec.*
Ford Escape 8.9 sec.*
Mazda Tribute 8.9 sec.*
Subaru Forester 9.3 sec.
Jeep Wrangler 9.8 sec.*
Jeep Liberty 10.0 sec.*
Saturn VUE 10.2 sec.
Toyota RAV4 10.2 sec.
Hyundai Santa Fe 10.3 sec.*
Nissan Xterra 10.9 sec.*

Ragged out Chevy Caprice 5.7L with a slipping transmission: 7.71

thebigphish · Post by **thebigphish** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:10 am

KitN1MCC wrote:you should also look at the isuzu. the v-cross looks like it can get very tough. i saw ones jacked up with 35in mudders

plus they have a few other models as well

seems like any kind of compact SUV up on 35 in mudslingers would be incredibly top heavy....then the question becomes, how much do you trust that aluminum rollcage?

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:35 pm

SlimBob wrote:
0-60 Acceleration
Honda CR-V 8.7 sec.*
Ford Escape 8.9 sec.*
Mazda Tribute 8.9 sec.*
Subaru Forester 9.3 sec.
Jeep Wrangler 9.8 sec.*
Jeep Liberty 10.0 sec.*
Saturn VUE 10.2 sec.
Toyota RAV4 10.2 sec.
Hyundai Santa Fe 10.3 sec.*
Nissan Xterra 10.9 sec.*
Ragged out Chevy Caprice 5.7L with a slipping transmission: 7.71

Okay
Thanks, I can't see how that was left out of the list.

Cam

Compact SUV purchase help

Compact SUV purchase help

SUV

A touch decision

Honda CRV Ambulance Service Vehicle

Decision made.

Final Decision

Update