RSS Question (food for thought)

radioconsult · Post by **radioconsult** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:46 am

Motorola has ceased support on several models of radios, i.e., Syntor X9000 and others. How would this impact Motorola's software license agreements. Would they continue to enforce the copyright provisions of the agreement or would they consider the software now in the public domain. Just food for thought.
RC

Post by **vcaruso** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:05 am

Hmmmmmmmmm
Definitely something to ponder.

craig · Post by **craig** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:38 am

I always wondered the same thing. If they won't sell the product to anyone anymore, I guess your not cheating them out of another sale.

Bugs Bunny · Post by **Bugs Bunny** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:32 am

It would be interesting to see what Motorola's legal department would say, but I would think they would not allow outdated RSS to become public domain, as there is probably intellectual property rights they would like to protect, though they could sell the RSS at a discontinued price.

Bugs

Post by **HumHead** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:42 am

Just because they aren't selling it anymore does not mean that they do not still hold the copyright.

Whether or not they will establish an in-house policy of allowing open use is another question entirely.

However, remember that // has a long history of trying to push users into buying new equipment by making maintenance of older radios impossible, or at least prohibitively expensive.

Given that, and the fact that they probably have no desire to set such a precedent, I would not hold my breath waiting for it to become freeware.

Then again, I've been wrong before........

radioconsult · Post by **radioconsult** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:06 am

OK. Let's turn this up another notch. Given there is NO currently available NEW computers available that will run DOS as a stable platform for the older RSS products. Then Motorola should have to rewrite the RSS to work with the present 1 gig and up computers running Windows XP. Don't think so. So has anyone ordered any RSS for non-supported equipment lately? Howabout the service manuals.

EngineerZ · Post by **EngineerZ** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:41 am

Let's go yet another notch up... Instead of waiting for Motorola to come up with a Windows-95/98/2000/XP-friendly version of RSS for their older radios, has anyone thought about the possibility of rolling their own software? (Folks have done this for the Syntor.) If a creative programmer wrote such a beast, it could be released a low-cost alternative to official RSS without all of the licensing problems. Would there be an intellectual property problem with slapping an analyzer on a radio's serial bus? Is that sort of reverse-engineering forbidden by the licensing agreement? (I don't have a copy handy...)

I know this is a stretch, especially given how easy it can be to turn a Motorola radio into a brick via programming software, but it is not entirely impossible... Personally, I'd like to see something for Linux/FreeBSD, but I don't have near the time required for such a project. (These days, I'm lucky if I have time to change a battery in one of my radios!)

--z

Post by Pj » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:23 pm

As for writing your own, if you wrote something that became really popular, the "reverse" engineering clause may apply and it is possible they could come after you. As long as you "rolled" your own without ripping into the offical RSS, you should be safe.

larryepage · Post by **larryepage** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:13 pm

May want to check your User's Manual on this one. As I interpret the situation, Motorola considers that if you purchase one of their radios, you are also licensing use of the software and firmware inside. There is a specific notice to this effect in every user's manual, installation manual, and service manual that I have seen. As I recall, there is an implied commitment not to disassemble or reverse engineer any of that software. Since courts have upheld the implied consent clause of shrink-wrapped software, it is reasonable to assume that they would uphold these software limitations as well.

The trick, of course, is that when radios are resold on the used market, the manual and other documentation many times does not go with the radio. A court might find that the purchaser of used gear could not be reasonably expected to be aware of the license agreement. (They are generally prone to throw out the "fine print.") Of course, they might also find just the opposite.

Motorola would probably claim that reverse engineering any of their software, current or not, would infringe on intellectual property rights and damage their competitive position. These have tended to be pretty strong arguments in legal tussles...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: larryepage on 2002-01-28 17:14 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: larryepage on 2002-01-28 17:15 ]</font>

OX · Post by OX » Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:24 pm

Just another idea, how long can a copyright be held before expiration? Isn't it something around 5 years and a trademark expires after 15 years?

That's why it's perfectly legal to swap music from the 70's over the web, the copyright has expired.

Post by **HumHead** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:05 pm

From the US Copyright office (I hope that this isn't copyrighted:))

"For works made for hire, and for
anonymous and pseudonymous works (unless the author's identity is revealed in Copyright Office records), the
duration of copyright will be 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter."

They specifically list computer software as being covered as a "literary work"

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:14 pm

Actually, I've been slowly been working on a FreeBSD version of the RSS. Since the RIB box is really only a RS232 to RS422 converter it isn't that hard to get an internal card for it that works with BSD. I've been monitoring the signal with the FreeBSD but have yet to really get anything. If anybody has a analyzer that would be willing to help it would be great.

-Robert F.

Post by **xmo** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:29 pm

"Motorola has ceased support on several models of radios, i.e., Syntor X9000 and others..."

Actually - if you go to Accesspoint (quick - before the nimrods shut it down) you will see that even though they have discontinued 'support' for some of these products (support meaning parts availability and depot repair) - they will still sell you the RSS.

I was thinking the same thing about a discontinued product - if there is no support couldn't the RSS be 'traded' so I called them and asked and the answer was - "of course not - look here - you can still get it from us."

They ought to do like some of the computer companies do - just put the old stuff on the web for free download - but gee, they might lose a few bucks on the sale of RSS for the ever popular R100 (or name your old product).