Whats wrong with trunking?

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:19 pm

I'm wondering y people are trying to get rid of their trunking radios and can't even get like 75 bucks for it? Besides having to log into a trunking network it's just a repeater it has to log into can't u just set the TX freuqncy the same as the RX?

motisking · Post by **motisking** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:54 pm

What trunking radios and where?

Here in Los Angeles CA, I have Motorola 800 MHz trunked mobiles that I would be tickled pink to get $75 for.

I need more information to comment further.

MO_TRASHER · Post by **MO_TRASHER** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:05 pm

A lot of it stems from the sale of 800 MHz SMR systems to the "Evil Empire" aka NexTel. When these systems were dismantled to construct the NexTel systems, the radios became "worthless".
I have a storage room with over 100 radios on 800 LTR that are taking up space.
Privacy Plus systems were also torn down, and there are numerous radios for the taking out there as well.
As far as using these for "talk around" you are SUPPOSED to be licensed for the frequencies that you would be using. It would be very unlikely that you would get a license on an 800MHz channel.
They DO make lovely doorstops!

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:18 pm

So 800Mhz trunking radios can do talkaround? I've seen six VGC maxtrac 888 800Mhz trunking radios all with dc cable, mics and cradles for 150 australian dollars and no one bought them. I would of but didn't know if i could use then as normal radios not trunking.

EKLB · Post by **EKLB** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:02 pm

Like the above post has said = yes a lot of the 800 radios will do talk around (Radio to Radio ).

But it is not legal to do so unless you can obtain a license in the 800 mhz band from the FCC.

And since Nextel has basicly bought up the majority if not all of the 800 mhz freqs for there Nextel systems you would be extremly lucky to get a license from the FCC.

In the event that you were fortune enough to get the FCC license it doesnt mean that Nextell couldnt come in and purchase the freq from the FCC which would put you in a postion of having to stop using your 800 freq and abandon the license.

So 800 radios because of Nextell have become basicly obsolete because of not being able to obtain the valid FCC licensing.

Yes you could say the H with the license and boot leg = BUT I WOULDNT WANT TO BE YOU WHEN I FOUND THE FCC ENFORCMENT DIVISION AT MY DOOR STEP BECAUSE I UNKNOWINGLY CAUSED CO CHANEL INTERFERENCE WITHOUT A LICENSE.

They will have to pump daylight to your cell.

Maybe a bit of an exageration on the daylight but take heed or be prepared for one H of a fine ect if you try it.

EKLB

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:29 pm

EKLB wrote: They will have to pump daylight to your cell.

EKLB

Or a small fine.

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:59 pm

The funny thing is, is that i'm from Australia and we don't have the FCC we have the ACA which is the Australian Communications Authority. I found some stuff about 800mhz and it turns out u can get one but u have to be a buisness.

kc7gr · Post by **kc7gr** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:08 pm

Motoman wrote:I'm wondering y people are trying to get rid of their trunking radios and can't even get like 75 bucks for it? Besides having to log into a trunking network it's just a repeater it has to log into can't u just set the TX freuqncy the same as the RX?

No, because trunking radios will not work without a trunked system to interact with. The repeater site tells a trunked radio, via the control channel, what frequency pair to use when.

Trunked radios, especially the 800MHz species, are 125% useless for amateur radio work, a fact that may also help to explain their slow sales on the used market.

Another factor is that trunked systems, like the phone companies, have monthly subscriber fees. Fail to pay, and it takes only a few seconds for the site owner to cut your access.

MO_TRASHER · Post by **MO_TRASHER** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:41 am

Motoman wrote:The funny thing is, is that i'm from Australia and we don't have the FCC we have the ACA which is the Australian Communications Authority. I found some stuff about 800mhz and it turns out u can get one but u have to be a buisness.

Even with the proper license, 800 MHz radios on T/A don't have alot of range.
And as others have said, if you want range, you'll need a repeater system.
I have a COMPLETE 5 channel LTR repeater system in our storage room, too. With combiner, duplexer, and RX multi-coupler. Heck, the antennas are STILL on the tower, but they could be had for the labor to take 'em down. (Bogner BMR-10)
As I said before, we can hardly "give away" the stuff, let alone sell it.

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:05 am

Well i know this sounds out of this world but i'd take any Motorola 800Mhz trunking equipment off your hands. I'd preger MTX JEDI radios. any mobile is welcome.
Just a jesture.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:26 pm

Do those happen to be Type 1 Privacy Plus units?

EKLB · Post by **EKLB** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:58 pm

I have a few MTX 810 portables that do Privacy Plus Type 1 and they also do Talk Around as well.

Also some Maxtrac B7 models that do the same with scan.

I also have a Maxtrac B7 that does type I and IIi both if you wanted that option.

Id sell/trade if anyones interested.

EKLB

w7com · Post by **w7com** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:23 pm

kc7gr wrote:
Motoman wrote:I'm wondering y people are trying to get rid of their trunking radios and can't even get like 75 bucks for it? Besides having to log into a trunking network it's just a repeater it has to log into can't u just set the TX freuqncy the same as the RX?
No, because trunking radios will not work without a trunked system to interact with. The repeater site tells a trunked radio, via the control channel, what frequency pair to use when.

Trunked radios, especially the 800MHz species, are 125% useless for amateur radio work, a fact that may also help to explain their slow sales on the used market.

Another factor is that trunked systems, like the phone companies, have monthly subscriber fees. Fail to pay, and it takes only a few seconds for the site owner to cut your access.

The FCC should give the hams a handfull of 800MHz channels and allow Type I trunking on them just to help recycle all the old radios that are now useless. Something like what they did for 60m down in HF land. Strict limits on mode and power and all that. I know a lot of hams that would love to play with trunking systems but as it stands now one would almost have to buy a new 440MHz system or build one from scratch.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:26 pm

Can you pm me with a price on the type 1 B7's?

kf4sqb · Post by **kf4sqb** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:42 pm

w7com wrote:
kc7gr wrote:
Motoman wrote: The FCC should give the hams a handfull of 800MHz channels and allow Type I trunking on them just to help recycle all the old radios that are now useless. Something like what they did for 60m down in HF land. Strict limits on mode and power and all that. I know a lot of hams that would love to play with trunking systems but as it stands now one would almost have to buy a new 440MHz system or build one from scratch.

On the other hand, most Hams wouldn't want to mess with trunking crap.....

ka7wnf · Post by **ka7wnf** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:06 pm

Some trunking radios will do conventional simplex and repeater. For example the TAIT 2060 LTR that you might see down under can be set up as a conventional radio. But it looks like a huge pain. The MPT1327 radios, AKA TAIT2030, 2035, and 2040 won't and are quite useless outside of a trunking system. Some LTR Kenwoods can also do conventional. The TK*40 series work quite well, as do the EF Johnson 8600 series. It seems to me that the manufacturers are forcing users to fill the dumps with radios by making them useless to anyone else. Just my .02 worth. PL

MO_TRASHER · Post by **MO_TRASHER** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:39 am

kf4sqb wrote:
w7com wrote:
kc7gr wrote:
On the other hand, most Hams wouldn't want to mess with trunking crap.....

Shoot, some hams are scared of PL!

"Your modern technology frightens and confuses me." --Caveman Lawyer

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:34 pm

About he only users left, and for how long is a matter of how much Nexthell is going to pay to move public safety off 800 mhz. Most public safety users don't buy used radios hence the radios are worthless. Or just about, you can use the expanded logic boards, and the front panels, and accesories but thats about it.

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:24 pm

Hello.

There are a LOT of type 2 trunking systems in MEXICO.
The border, ditto.
Nextel is, for the most part, screwed when it comes to Mexico, as the Mexican government will not allow SMRs to run autopatches wirhout special conditions being met, and then, only 10% of the channels can access a patch.
Simple, the Mexican government owns 51% of the telephone company.

jbxx · Post by **jbxx** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:31 pm

Taco Bell?

Sorry
J.B. AD6WX

2wayguru · Post by **2wayguru** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:51 pm

Speaking of NEXTHELL trying to get Public Safety off of there 800 channels, NEXTHELL made Americas Most Wanted Saturday... They had a whole 10 minute segment on it. The funny thing was John Walsh did not say Tigard right he called it TIG ARD rather then TY GARD.. Right now if the National Police Chiefs Association and the National Fire Chiefs Association have there way, Nextel will have to Move there channels to 1.9gig. FCC is willling to allocate a portion of the 1.9 gig band just for NEXTHELL so they will stop interfering with the 800 public safety band. But NO the S*& bags from Verizon, Sprint and AT&T and other Wireless phone companies are suing to keep NEXTHELL in the 800 band and saying that the FCC has no right to put NEXTHELL in part of there BELOVED band. There is a section on http://www.amw.com to tell NEXTHELL to go F*&^ off and go somewhere else and leave the Public Safety Band alone....

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:10 pm

2wayguru wrote:Speaking of NEXTHELL trying to get Public Safety off of there 800 channels, NEXTHELL made Americas Most Wanted Saturday... They had a whole 10 minute segment on it. The funny thing was John Walsh did not say Tigard right he called it TIG ARD rather then TY GARD.. Right now if the National Police Chiefs Association and the National Fire Chiefs Association have there way, Nextel will have to Move there channels to 1.9gig. FCC is willling to allocate a portion of the 1.9 gig band just for NEXTHELL so they will stop interfering with the 800 public safety band. But NO the S*& bags from Verizon, Sprint and AT&T and other Wireless phone companies are suing to keep NEXTHELL in the 800 band and saying that the FCC has no right to put NEXTHELL in part of there BELOVED band. There is a section on http://www.amw.com to tell NEXTHELL to go F*&^ off and go somewhere else and leave the Public Safety Band alone....

you are referring to the "concensus plan" which was created by Craptel. The problem is that adopting the concensus plan, or as I and others call it, the Scam Plan, Nextel will GRADUALLY (we are talking YEARS) move off 800MHz onto their new 1900 spectrum. It has been well known that Craptel wants to abandoned iDEN for more robust, modern CDMA or GSM based format for broadband wireless, and they contiguous spectrum to do it.

The idea that adopting the concensus plan will magically make 800MHz quiet from their noise is completely untrue. NTIA knows this, thus why they oppose it, as do I. A true concensus plan should be comprised of independent RF experts and people not on the payroll or taking donations from Nextel (thanks, APCO). One plan called for giving Nextel their 1900MHz spectrum under one main condition: they resolve any open or future cases of their interference to public safety systems within 60 days OR shut off the offending site AND within 36 months, totally disband their 800MHz frequencies altogether. I think this is the plan that makes the most sense, don't you?

I realize that the FCC is to blame for allowing this to happen, so I think they should go ahead and let Nextel have their 1900 spectrum anyway, provided the above conditions be met. This will put and end to this in a reasonable amount of time, and force Nextel to clean up their dirty sites NOW not whenever they "feel" like it.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:45 pm

2wayguru wrote:Speaking of NEXTHELL trying to get Public Safety off of there 800 channels, NEXTHELL made Americas Most Wanted Saturday... They had a whole 10 minute segment on it. The funny thing was John Walsh did not say Tigard right he called it TIG ARD rather then TY GARD.. Right now if the National Police Chiefs Association and the National Fire Chiefs Association have there way, Nextel will have to Move there channels to 1.9gig. FCC is willling to allocate a portion of the 1.9 gig band just for NEXTHELL so they will stop interfering with the 800 public safety band. But NO the S*& bags from Verizon, Sprint and AT&T and other Wireless phone companies are suing to keep NEXTHELL in the 800 band and saying that the FCC has no right to put NEXTHELL in part of there BELOVED band. There is a section on http://www.amw.com to tell NEXTHELL to go F*&^ off and go somewhere else and leave the Public Safety Band alone....

Just remember that there are aleast two sides to every story and in many cases Nextel was in 800mhz long before the local PS systems moved in. What ever happens, one thing is for sure; there will be no simple, easy way.

Cam

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:41 pm

I can't belive anybody would say Nexthell was in before public safety, that BULLS*IT. Nexthell is only been around for about 10 years, most large city Public Safety systems has been there a lot longer. Look at New York City, their system has been on since 1983. Memphis since 1998 or a little earlier. Nexthell has only been buying out business systems for the last maybe 7-8 years. I wonder who you work for.
Please don't excuse my ranting, because this type of stuff has been going on for over 20 years. Those with the big bucks rule. In 1981 the FCC put a broadcast station on the next channel over from a SMR in Atlanta (the FCC's typical stupidity), guess who lost, the SMR because the NAB (BIG BUCKS) backed the broadcaster, and dragged it out in court and hearings till the guy just about went broke. He ate all the costs of redesigning his system, rechanneling it and reprogramming all his customers to another set of SMR channels. The public was not served in that case either.
When Motorola has anything to do with anything radio and regulations they win and everybody else looses,(In case you don't know Motorola is a 40% owner of Nexthell, and has numerous former government employes on its payroll)
In respect to AMW, I think Mr. Walsh who I have meet personally and have a lot of respect for should be told exactly what is going on with the interference problems, (not to move Nexthell and just fix the problems NOW) and that a quick and immediate solution should be found, or Nexthell should cease and desist their operations untill they can fix it. (If it was mom and pop radio you be damned sure they would be offf the air right quick)
Personally I don't know how they can operate anyway, when the emmissions is suppose to be with and average of about 40-50% deviation, and they are running 5kc data 100% of the time.

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:38 pm

Hey Motoman,
Well if you can use/get Lic for 800 MHz stuff in AU and get some repeater machinery, well have at it.. You will get some absolute steals on 800MHZ stuff. Hell, they might just give it to ya..just pay shipping to OZ. I thought most business radio over there were either Tetra or MPT1327 trunking. This stuff over here would be Type II Motorola or LTR etc.

Motoman · Post by **Motoman** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:53 pm

Yeah most if not all 800mhz radios here are MPT or Tel. I'm going to put a post of any unwanted 800Mhz radios. All i want them is for short range commincations simplex like 4-5kms.

kf4sqb · Post by **kf4sqb** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:08 am

Back to the original topic for a moment: what's so good about trunking? I've yet to figure out the point. Seems to me like more trouble than it's worth. Not to mention a hell of a lot more expensive.

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:30 pm

Hello.

Nexthell was not first to 800 MHz!
Most cities run type II or the later IIi, why?
It was the only thing out at the time, iDEN having not been invented yet.
Nextel is what happend when motorola sold off its type I systems, then called privacy plus, and fleetcall, a major national SMR running a lot of LTR, merged.
Motorola provided major product support to NextHell and iDEN.
The rest, as is said, is history.

Whats wrong with trunking?

Whats wrong with trunking?

Re: Whats wrong with trunking?

Re: Whats wrong with trunking?

Re: Whats wrong with trunking?

Trunking

Re: Whats wrong with trunking?

useless

Mexico.

Nethell was not first.