Calling the Astro Digital Design Team (Motorolans)

Post by **batdude** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:44 pm

I know that one of you lurks these hallways.

I know that sometimes you laugh at our posts.

I know that you withhold information.

But

Could one of you, either by PM to me or R0F PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON IT...............

post the Host, DSP and Secure Firmware revision history?

Something like

Astro Saber
Host 1.00.00 Did this
DSP 1.00.00 Did this
Secure 1.00.00 Was des-xl only

continuing on thru the 512k vocons into the 1meg boards....

then

XTS 3000
Host ...
DSP ....
Secure ...

and

XTS 3500

and

XTS 5000

You can throw in XTS 2500 and MT1500 if you want.

you get the idea

c'mon, share the knowledge

doug

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:43 am

I WANT MY r0f!

hehehe,

Come on Shaun, please come back! I for one miss the informative posts.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:30 am

He was banned by alex, and can never return... our loss.

tpg

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:37 am

WTF? Why?

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:54 am

"Poor attitude" or something similar. With the amount of info he was contributing to the board, he could have been telling everyone to piss off. We (as a group) would STILL be getting great information.

Some people need to grow some skin.

He was one of the largest contributors. So what if he popped off every now and then.. I do.

(as you can see my posts have dropped quite a bit since they banned him. I will participate proportionally with the amount I agree with how this board is run.)

tpg

wb4bsd · Post by **wb4bsd** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:54 am

i think you can find him on http://www.hamsexy.com

Post by **batdude** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:35 am

i would not go there rusty.

let's just say it was an "administrative conflict" between alex and shaun.

and tim is correct, he was by far the biggest contributor to the astro forum.

d

clavo · Post by **clavo** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:58 am

As well as the biggest outspoken homophobic racist on the board.

-c

batdude wrote:i would not go there rusty.

let's just say it was an "administrative conflict" between alex and shaun.

and tim is correct, he was by far the biggest contributor to the astro forum.

d

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:10 am

Examples?

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:19 am

Actually, Shaun is a good friend of mine, so that rules out your little homophobia theory.

-M

clavo wrote:As well as the biggest outspoken homophobic racist on the board.

clavo · Post by **clavo** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:20 am

Go search yourself. Who knows what of them are left. Most of his insulting posts have been moderated or deleted for obvious reasons.

-c

The Pager Geek wrote:Examples?

Post by **xmo** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:32 am

There is no question that Shaun provided a lot of useful information in many of his posts.

Actually, because of that he probably got more slack than most other members would have gotten before Alex was forced to act - and the action went beyond just a disagreement between Shaun and Alex - other moderators were involved - so let's just say it's too bad it happened and end this discussion right here...

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:44 pm

Speaking as a senior moderator, (that is, I'm one of the ones that got the gig first), I have to say that I'm very disturbed at this.

I have unilaterally chosen to UNLOCK this topic, and it WILL REMAIN UNLOCKED if I have any say in it.

Whatever's going on between certain people and Shaun is a matter for THEM to work out, but the topics of other people, topics where they mention Shaun, are NOT to be used as pawns in a private war!

I haven't been very active here lately, and maybe I should have kept my eye on the place, but forgive me, I thought the place was running smoothly enough that it didn't NEED to be watched constantly by me!

What happens next? Someone else might relock this topic. If that happens, it better be by someone with seniority on me, and the number of people who have that seems to be TWO AT MOST. Otherwise I will unlock it AGAIN.

This is sort of a final test for me. If my decision isn't respected by top management, I'll most likely leave forever and they can not only strip my moderator title from me, but might as well de-register me as well, because if this place's mods can't keep their private feuds private and let them spill into the boards, then this isn't the free and open place it started out to be and was for a long time, and I want no further part of it...IF that's how it is now.

The degradation of this place began with the addition of the lounge. Not wishing to disrespect anybody in particular, but the lounge brought in too many people who haven't paid their dues and become technically competent on their own. Ready-made Script Kiddies and copycat hackers are NOT what made this board THE Motorola radio information source on the internet! The high powered talent is leaving this place and NOBODY is coming in that can hold a candle to them!

Elroy

wb4bsd · Post by **wb4bsd** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:21 pm

Doug,
I wasnt meaning that to be rude. All i was saying was that if someone wanted to contact him that they might find him on the hamsexy forum. No disrespect to anyone.

I dont know what happened nor do i care. I was just passing on information.

Post by **batdude** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:35 pm

i thought u were being a

sorry rusty

doug

Post by **alex** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:07 pm

OK - well, since I did the banning, I decided I would let Shawn explain the situation, but I guess that story hasn't come out, and he hasn't been completly truthful with other people about the situation.

So, I will do my best to clarify.

Shawn's done some pretty amusing (yet admitably dumb) things on the board - most of which don't really cause harm - they do go against the rules of the board. Several times I've stopped him, he's enjoyed his fun, and we've moved on - and I did let him get away with a lot of random things.

However, Shawn's attitude has turned a real corner. Shawn didn't care, and he continued to cause problems on the board - creating other user names, starting threads that just went on and on with just stupid things that make the whole board look bad. I spoke with Shawn on IM about a lot of this, and he said that there are too many lame people on Batlabs, and he's sick of people asking the same questions --- over --- and --- over --- and --- over... you get the idea. That does happen here - there's NO shortage of the SAME questions over and over again. No one steps up to the plate like Shawn does to some extent and post what he does because they do have a certain level of fear of M coming down and knocking on their door.

Shawn was one of the only members here who constantly stuck their neck out to better the place - I'll be the first to admit that, and agree that he was one of the more useful contributers to this board.

When I talked with him a while ago over IM, he sated that he was starting up school again, didn't really have time to sit and read the board - and wanted to take a break for a little while. This was after a few of his classic posts - the 2135 system key one, and a couple of others - admitably funny, but don't do anything for the board.

So I decided that it would be in his best interest if he took a 30 day break from the board. He could still read, I wouldn't ban his IP, but he couldn't post for a month.

He again, went and created several other accounts, mostly to read the lounge - and then started posting under those names.

That violated the terms of his his agreement.

Even in a PM to humhead a while ago (8.17.04)

I've agreed to leave the forum for good. I asked respectfully that my account be banned/terminated. It's for the better, it really is.

Anyway enjoy the board and I hope things around here progress to something a little more productive than what it's been like for the last 9 months or so. The quantity of "idiot" posts has gone through the roof, and the quality of the "GOOD" material has ceased. When's the last time someone posted something ground-breaking? The astro forum is dead. My troll last week was a mockery of what it's become.

Regardless - this was something that was mutual - in the beginning. Shawn screwd it up - yes Shawn - you screwed it up.

Several people here know that I give a lot of 'leway' with respect to chances, and let people get away with a lot.

The one thing that I'm usually hard up on is RSS - and that's the way that's got to be.

So I don't know if all my blabbering helped clear up some of the air, but that is what happened.

-Alex

Post by **alex** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:16 pm

batdude wrote:let's just say it was an "administrative conflict" between alex and shaun.

I'd like to point out that while Doug might have a better idea of what happened (since he did call and speak on the issue with me).

The issue is really:

He was given a MUTUAL (meaning he agreed!!!) vacation from the board.

He created accounts and started posting. He posted more "troll" style threads to get reactions out of certain people to start a nice downward spiral of events.

He was then subsequently banned from the board.

While I haven't talked to Shawn in a month or two - I don't have a personal problem with him, besides the fact (and I think MOST of you can see this quality in him) is that he can be a real [idiot] when he wants to be. He's good at it too!

The post he made a while ago about me "calling someone's 13 year old son" was REALLY stretching it, and I even know of another member who he ADMITTED to him that it was he who posted the material.

Ok, i've said enough for now on this topic - Elroy, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it - in PM or in public, I don't mind. I respect you, and I have respect for what you do have to say - and your oppinion, but I want to do my best to inform you of what the facts are.

-Alex

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:35 pm

Not for nothing buit.. THAT'S IT?

You retards banned him for THAT?

If you both agreed to a mutual vacation... LET HIM! Why ban him? Aftering banning him, I would have done the SAME THING HE DID. Create another name and have some fun.

What a joke.

"...starting threads that just went on and on with just stupid things that make the whole board look bad." = That's the lounge ENTIRELY.

"Shawn was one of the only members here who constantly stuck their neck out to better the place - I'll be the first to admit that, and agree that he was one of the more useful contributers to this board. "
Comparatively, what have you given?

"When I talked with him a while ago over IM, he sated that he was starting up school again, didn't really have time to sit and read the board - and wanted to take a break for a little while."
So LET HIM without banning him. This isn't a private forum. People come and go when they please. "Let's ban him, make sure he doesn't come back" What a 4-year old attitude that is.... for being an admin / mod that is.

"That violated the terms of his his agreement."
Please... everyone has at some point. Do we REALLY need to go down the "textbook" path.

This place is turning into a lot of other POS forums that I visit.

Better get your act together otherwise we're going to have to get photos of YOU doing keg-stands at an official function. (Yes, that was handled POORLY too. I haven't been there in 2 years and I know more than you think... pathetic)

tpg

007 · Post by **007** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 pm

Well, that answers why r0F disappeared.

The useless name calling and admin slaying is not called for. Alex laid out the case and now we know. You don't like it, PM them. We don't need to turn this into another useless, locked thread.

I think the lounge is a great place, but as of late some of it has gotten to be too much.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:04 pm

Where I may not be the most level headed of the group, I certainly think there is a lot of over-reaction to this subject. Yeah Shaun had his place here, and he had done some decent things in regards to Astro radios. Bravo and kudos for him. He took the attention he received from that and went a direction that probably wasn’t conducive to having a happy relationship with other members and the management of the board. It happens. Everyone was young and stupid once, full of their own self virtue that they couldn’t see way to even putting their socks on right. It happens… And because of some issues that were going on Alex had a deal with Shaun, and Shaun violated that deal. You think after he had been cut a lot of slack that he won’t go unpunished? That would be a perfect way of bringing on anarchy into these forums. It’s not because of the Lounge that the seasoned contributors are leaving. They most likely are leaving because of a host of other reasons. Family, Job, generally no time… It happens in life. Life changes and we adapt. I’m willing to bet more often than not those reasons are the ones that people are leaving, or no longer posting.

Some of you guys have loyalty to Shaun… that is respectable, and there is nothing wrong with that. I may not have agreed with Shaun’s antics or behavior but I respected him for what he had done. But to use your loyalty in the way that you have is counter-productive. If you truly wanted to show your respect for him and maybe continue the work he had done, do so. But not like this. You want to hate or dislike moderators or admins of the forums for Shaun being banned. Go right ahead. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But the way that “The Pager Geek” has carried on is silly.

Tim, you and I have spoken on occasions in the past. You are a very intelligent person and I think you know that. The way you are acting/typing in your last post is childish. You have a personal beef with Alex and you have made that public. Nothing good will come of it. Something outside of this board is just that… outside the board. It has no place being here. Making veiled threats and resorting to name calling is out of line. And y’know what.. you can sit and fatmouth me all you like as well. I don’t care. I’ve been called a lot worse than what you can come up with, I’m sure of it. And no that is not an invitation to try. You’ve helped a lot of people here, including myself. You’ve taught a lot of people a lot of stuff as well. Why don’t you stick to that, quite honestly… you’re better at it than this.

Regardless of what some people may think, this place is still a vast collection of valuable information and people to supply and help with that information. Don’t try and drag it down with any of this.

And for the record, I think Shaun’s banning is more HIS loss than ours.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:03 pm

JAYMZ wrote:...It’s not because of the Lounge that the seasoned contributors are leaving. They most likely are leaving because of a host of other reasons. Family, Job, generally no time… It happens in life. Life changes and we adapt. I’m willing to bet more often than not those reasons are the ones that people are leaving, or no longer posting.

BULL$HIT . I know of several who have taken off because of pointless threads. The lounge also being one of the reasons.

JAYMZ wrote:Tim, you and I have spoken on occasions in the past. You are a very intelligent person and I think you know that. The way you are acting/typing in your last post is childish. You have a personal beef with Alex and you have made that public. Nothing good will come of it. Something outside of this board is just that… outside the board. It has no place being here. Making veiled threats and resorting to name calling is out of line. And y’know what.. you can sit and fatmouth me all you like as well. I don’t care. I’ve been called a lot worse than what you can come up with, I’m sure of it. And no that is not an invitation to try. You’ve helped a lot of people here, including myself. You’ve taught a lot of people a lot of stuff as well. Why don’t you stick to that, quite honestly… you’re better at it than this.

1: I'm defending someone who isn't allowed because of an unjustified banning

2: I don't have a personal beef with alex. You are assuming that. (Go figure.) It seems that the decision was made by multiple people. All mods or admins. Nothing I have said has been about something else outside this board. The keg-stand comment was about SOMEONE else, I was putting into context for him to relate to this one.

3: What veiled threat? I never made one!?!?!

4: No names that were called were specific to him. Only the decision was made of a 4-year old way of thinking. "You retards" was for all those involved in the decision, not specificly him.

5: are you implying that I should badmouth you? Or do you think you know me that well? I have no personal problems with you either.

6: Do you REALLY want to start with ME now? (can't bash r0f so let's pick the next one?)

7: I'm pissed at the REASONING behind the banning, not the who's of it. He was an asset and you stuck it in your own pie-hole.

8: The board IS losing high caliber people... not just because of family and time. Just keep thinking that until you are only talking about who's lightbar is bigger.

Watch out batdude, after they ban me.... you're next!!!!

tpg

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:49 am

Well, this has been productive!

I can see both sides of the issue...or three sides, if there are three sides to it.

I think banning RoF was an overreaction, but perhaps RoF also might have overreacted to other things as well.

I think his points about the declining quality of the Astro forum are right on the money. It shouldn't be that way, as Astro is an ever-evolving technology and no doubt there are those who are keeping up with it, but they're not sharing what they learned...at least, not HERE....like they used to.

His points regarding the asking of the same questions over and over by newbies are also valid points. I don't think it's at all out of line for the board to have a FAQ specifically for those people. Or several. Granted, if those FAQs were large enough to cover ALL the questions that have been asked more than once, it'd be the largest FAQing thing you've ever seen in your life,

but it would be worth while to cover the high points at least. Maybe "Astro Trunking 101", "CPS 101", etc, in the form of tutorials that explain the operation of the system and software, oriented toward those who want to use their Astro equipment to listen in on the local system, and understand how it works, but with a strong emphasis on "safe" (absolutely no transmissions possible) scanning.

The points made about the lounge are valid, too, in my opinion. Wander into there for too long and it'll take ten points off your IQ! As far as I'm concerned, the board was better off without it and I see that a fair percentage of the lounge posters are a waste of bandwidth that I would kick off.

Elroy

Post by **alex** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:22 am

I'll address a couple of comments - both TPG and Elroy have made since my post:

TPG Comments:

If you both agreed to a mutual vacation... LET HIM! Why ban him? After banning him, I would have done the SAME THING HE DID. Create another name and have some fun.

I did let him. He can't keep himself away from here as hard as he tries - he keeps reading, and posting. When almost all of those posts at this point are in effect - to poke fun at the level of stupidity of some people, then it's detrimental to the overall board.

He and I agreed upon him taking a break - he was going back to school, wouldn't have time - it would give him a good opportunity to stay away.

I had an agreement with him, and he broke his end of the deal. I gave him what he wanted - and HE - and ONLY he - broke that agreement.

This isn't a private forum. People come and go when they please.

While it's not a private forum, posting here is a privilege, not a right. Shawn does not have a right to post here - he was given the privilege, and that was taken away after he violated an agreement. People can come and go as they please. Most probably show up, ask a question, and leave. That's their choice, and it really doesn't bother me. If you violate the rules of the board, you don't comply with simple requests such as "stop" then you loose your privilege. I think that's a very simple concept.

Better get your act together otherwise we're going to have to get photos of YOU doing keg-stands at an official function. (Yes, that was handled POORLY too. I haven't been there in 2 years and I know more than you think... pathetic)

Hopefully that will end tonight - but I agree, it hasn't been handled in the right way - but that's not a topic for here.... Keeping in mind of course, that incident was ONE thing, and ONE thing only. Unlike Shawn’s - where there were several things that led up to it. At least I had the gonads to talk to him about it! (This will not make sense to a lot of people, but TPG should get what I mean).
----------------------------------------------------------
Elroy's Post:

I think banning RoF was an overreaction, but perhaps RoF also might have overreacted to other things as well.

Elroy - the fact here is that you haven't been around enough to see a steady build of issues over the past two years.

I haven't been very active here lately, and maybe I should have kept my eye on the place, but forgive me, I thought the place was running smoothly enough that it didn't NEED to be watched constantly by me!

I would have liked to have seen you stay around and contribute as you have a lot in the past. My understanding that it was for other reasons, not having to do with the board. But, my understanding could be wrong - this is just what I remember hearing from you in the past.

if this place's mods can't keep their private feuds private and let them spill into the boards

There is no private "feud" here. Where does that come from? People think that I have a beef with shawn, and that's NOT the case.

The points made about the lounge are valid, too, in my opinion. Wander into there for too long and it'll take ten points off your IQ! As far as I'm concerned, the board was better off without it and I see that a fair percentage of the lounge posters are a waste of bandwidth that I would kick off.

You know what? I've thought about that -- I have even proposed that to other mods here on the board that we just disband the lounge completely. I brought on 3 other people to work on some groundwork to get rules established. I added a FAQ to the board to try and clarify some of the rules - I need to add a couple of more points to it, but it's not really all that bad. Regardless, we have discussed it, and to some extent - "What really would "better" the board?" There's a fine point that you can walk to before you have IP issues with M. To some extent - how much MORE can you find out?

There are people on here - who do more lurking than posting I'm sure - even some of the people who actually DO post - know more than they would ever care to share - mostly out of fear for the fact that they too could get hung for what they know/do. It's a realistic fear. Maybe I'm not seeing it right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

His points regarding the asking of the same questions over and over by newbie’s are also valid points. I don't think it's at all out of line for the board to have a FAQ specifically for those people. Or several. Granted, if those FAQs were large enough to cover ALL the questions that have been asked more than once, it'd be the largest FAQing thing you've ever seen in your life, but it would be worth while to cover the high points at least. Maybe "Astro Trunking 101", "CPS 101", etc, in the form of tutorials that explain the operation of the system and software, oriented toward those who want to use their Astro equipment to listen in on the local system, and understand how it works, but with a strong emphasis on "safe" (absolutely no transmissions possible) scanning.

It's not a bad idea - but I've learned one thing running the board here for a while, and that's that people DON'T READ. You could make the text 7 feet tall, and people still won't read.

If someone wants to come forth and spend the time to compile the above, I'd be happy to see about posting it here on the board, as well as talk to Bat to get it posted on the main page.

That's all for now.

-Alex

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:41 am

alex wrote:While it's not a private forum, posting here is a privilege, not a right.

I look at it MUCH differently. It's a privilege to have other people post their knowledge here for us to read. It's not a privilege to post here since 99.9% of the population can post here. I would see posting as a privilege once you are accepted by a group of elitists / admins that agree that you CAN contribute something useful to the board. Since this board is "open forum" there really is no "privilege."

Well... after thinking about this a little further and logisticly:
This is a no win scenario.

If mods back down and unban him, he's not coming back anyways.
If mods don't bring him back it won't matter in the long run, since he's not coming back anyways.

I'll just remember the decisions and attitudes, and adjust (post) accordingly.

tpg

Post by **batdude** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:46 pm

well I'm sure if shaun was able to comment, he would - but he informs me that he can't even visit batlabs as his home/school IP's have been banned by Alex

you can interpret that to mean - HIS IP'S ARE BANNED - HE CAN **NOT** read anything posted here.

'nuff said.

doug

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:36 pm

Well, Alex, I do see your points. Not saying that I'm sure I agree with you completely, but I can think about it and read in the archives for some more detailed background information if I'm sufficiently motivated.

I've been mostly absent here simply because it'd almost impossible for me to keep up to date on a real live Astro system when I don't even currently own a fully feature compatible Astro radio for one, and the only Astro system in my area (Florida statewide system) hasn't been given any new upgrades for several years. It's not state of the art as a result, and things are only going to get worse as the downgrade (switchover to Ma/Com EDACS ProVoice gear) is due to begin soon. And using a 3000 dollar radio to monitor ONLY the FHP, probably the least interesting public safety service to scan, is just silly. Not that I object to doing that, but I won't spend even 300 bucks to monitor FHP. Boring.

Concerning the lounge issue, I suggest this:

Every member who wishes to post in, say, the Astro forum, has to pass an online knowledge test on the subject before being given posting rights to that forum. The knowledge test isn't designed to ensure that only the most highly educated Astro fanatics pass it, but instead it ensures that you have to know enough that you're not a complete newbie to Astro, and are likely to be able to understand the answer if you ask a question about the system. The FAQ for that topic would contain enough information for someone to pass the test, if he reads it all and pays attention.

Each technical forum could have such a test-based access system. Pass the test, you get the cookie that allows posting.

Sound sensible?

Elroy

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:16 pm

Why not just add forums...
Astro Newbies Go Here (New people ask questions, anyone can answer)
Astro Updates and Information (limited people here)
Infrastructure Updates and Info (limited)
Infrastructure Q&A (open)
This will reduce the need for searching before asking. Most of the question could be in the top 10-20 post of the limited information posts as opposed to searching HUNDREDS of usless ones.

Make a sticky in the Q&A forums, search the Info forums first, if you ask a question and your question can be readily found, your post will disappear.

If someone doesn't follow the rules, delete their post. What's a screen name if you can't post anthing?

Do this for other forums as well..
A "Read/Search this First" or else forum....

MANY forums do this.

merely suggestions

tpg

Post by **alex** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:40 pm

Elroy + TPG -

Good suggestoins.

TPG: (I'll again address your concerns by quoting)

I look at it MUCH differently. It's a privilege to have other people post their knowledge here for us to read. It's not a privilege to post here since 99.9% of the population can post here. I would see posting as a privilege once you are accepted by a group of elitists / admins that agree that you CAN contribute something useful to the board. Since this board is "open forum" there really is no "privilege."

I see what your saying here - to some extent. I am happy that your trying to give me the perspective of the other side of the coin. It is great that people take the time to post here. There's nothing that BINDS them to do so, and it's their choice. That's why I've said in the past, I'm sad to see people go, but that's their right, and I obviously can't force people to leave. IF they violate the rules, then what am I supposed to do? It gets to the point where I have to draw the line somewhere and take a stance.

I'm not saying I'm perfect and I make all the right decisions, but I do like to say that I feel the decision I made was informed, and had sufficent information to back what I did.

My intention by my statement was that your can freely register and post here - within the confines of the rules. You loose that freedom if you are found in violation of the rules. Maybe that's better put, I don't know.

If mods back down and unban him, he's not coming back anyways.
If mods don't bring him back it won't matter in the long run, since he's not coming back anyways.

I'd agree with this, but a little part of me knows that Shawn likes the attention that he gets. Being on this board gets Shawn name regognition, as well as attention, and respect. But, that's my oppinion, and hey, I've been wrong before!

Batdude:

well I'm sure if shaun was able to comment, he would - but he informs me that he can't even visit batlabs as his home/school IP's have been banned by Alex

Yes -- this was done after his repeated creation of accounts, and harassment on the board using these accounts took place. This remains in effect.

If someone would like to speak for Shawn, and he would like the option to communicate through that person, I'll allow his feelings on the subject be brought forth - however, I'd ask that he remain truthful about the circumstances, and be honest - which I feel that I have been with this situation.

TPG:

Why not just add forums...
Astro Newbies Go Here (New people ask questions, anyone can answer)
Astro Updates and Information (limited people here)
Infrastructure Updates and Info (limited)
Infrastructure Q&A (open)
This will reduce the need for searching before asking. Most of the question could be in the top 10-20 post of the limited information posts as opposed to searching HUNDREDS of usless ones.

I guess this is a possibility - Would it make you - and others post more? I can't answer that. I guess I'd then ask - show me the demand for something like this, and that it has support, and it will be considered. Right now, even if I did that - it would probably be "too little, too late." But, I could be incorrect.

Elroy:

Concerning the lounge issue, I suggest this:

Every member who wishes to post in, say, the Astro forum, has to pass an online knowledge test on the subject before being given posting rights to that forum. The knowledge test isn't designed to ensure that only the most highly educated Astro fanatics pass it, but instead it ensures that you have to know enough that you're not a complete newbie to Astro, and are likely to be able to understand the answer if you ask a question about the system. The FAQ for that topic would contain enough information for someone to pass the test, if he reads it all and pays attention.

Each technical forum could have such a test-based access system. Pass the test, you get the cookie that allows posting.

I guess I'd then ask - who wants to come up with the test? Who wants to manage this whole process, and ensure that it's complied with? I would expect such forums to be public read, post with permission. I would again have to refer to the enginnering of the board software to see if it allows or doesn't allow it.

regardless:

Some of the actions in the lounge:
-post count on the board does not increase by posting in lounge
-you must be a REGISTERED user in order to view the lounge itself, and logged in. (Curtails people from Registering JUST to participate in lounge)

Planned addition: I finished this about 2 weeks ago, and have yet to implement - you need X number of posts in order to post in the lounge.

These are some of the things I'm working on in general to keep the buzz to a minimum. Of course, most people who are in there now who do cause issues - have enough of a post count that this wouldn't nesecarily stop them.

I'm not really opposed to doing away with the lounge, but at the same time, we'll have the same sort of topics appear in other forums.

I'm more than happy to keep up this discussion - providing it remains in a positive course, and I get the impression that it is moving in a positive direction from where it origionally started.

My only comment from my end - I'd like to have input and thoughts if we are going to change things from MORE than 2 people.

-Alex

sglass · Post by **sglass** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:13 pm

posting clases based on knowldge tests

just screams elitism to me

Everyone starts somewhere, I've learned a hell of allot here. I wouldn't have without asking questions. By not allowing a new user to ask questions, don't you go against the spirit of things? Yeah you'll get the same question a few times, but if the end result is people learning-who cares?

O.K. I am off to eat a bowl of crispix and soy milk.

jnglmassiv · Post by **jnglmassiv** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:17 pm

Elroy Jetson wrote:Sound sensible?

Better idea. Update the Astro section on Batlabs.com with modern, relevant information. When new Motorola users who are interested in their radios search the web for Astro information, Batlabs is among the few resources out there. The Astro section is, at the moment and no offense, pathetic. I think most people here would agree with this assessment. If new users ask newbie questions, I recommend answering with a smile or not answering at all. Like television..don't like what's on? Turn it off. No one likes a whiner. This goes for the lounge, too. It is what it is. And what it is is fun, most of the time. IMO, its important to have a non-specific catchall to keep the junk out of the 'real' forums.

Often, its hard to know what to search for or how to ask the right questions whe one is starting in a new hobby. An example Newbie Astro question might be how to monitor a digital TRS without affiliating with that system. However, if you were new to the nomenclature, you wouldn't know to search for 'affliate' and its not mentioned on the Astro model specific pages. There's no reason to get upset with this person. They're just trying to do what we all are: getting the most out of our radios.

I think that those who frequent the boards get a real sense of an active stifling of new information. New posts regarding flashcode manipulation and second party software development are summarily closed if not deleted on hazy IP grounds. Take the example of this group:
http://www.nuclearelephant.com/papers/v710hackers.html
They feature an active "Hacker Reward Program" with hard cash (and not a small amount) for successful mods and opening of features on cellphones. Seeing, here:
http://www.motorola.com/annualreport/20 ... ights.html
that Motorola earns fully twice as much on personal cellular devices than the entire CGISS division (of which actual radios comprise some fraction of that dividion), its clear who is presenting the real threat to Motorola's IP. That they don't/can't go after this group is telling. The trade or sale of RSS is pretty cut and dry copyright violation. The other stuff, less so. What it would do is get more interest, enthusiasm and activity on the boards. It might ruffle some feathers with the elitists or those making some money running private radio servicing operations but who is the board here to serve anyway? On preview, obviously this paragraph is mostly my opinion and I mean no offense to anyone. I just hate being cowed by some shadowy, poorly defined non-threat.

clavo · Post by **clavo** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:49 pm

Well said.

The model specific area of batlabs.com never gets updated. There is tons of great informaion in hundreds and hundreds of threads, yet none of it makes it over to the 'other side' of this web site. Take the r0f newbie astro sticky for example. How long has it sat as a sticky when it belongs over under the astro model model info area? What about the TONS of other great info that just spirals, lost, into the black hole of posts. With phpBB's not-so-great search features, I don't blame people for asking questions over and over. It can be a royal pain to find things on here.

I realize that the admins and moderators don't have the time to sort through everything, however who wants to take the time to post a long explanation answering a very specific question to have lost in the arm pits of the forums? Only a few take the time, and I thank them for that!

People's important contributions need to be collected, credit given, and archived in an easy to find manner.

As far as Motorola IP is concerned, I agree with Jnglmassiv completely. I'm sick of the excuses, and I'm sure tons of others are as well, that hacking information can't be posted because of motorola IP concerns. Any of us that have been around here networking for a while know what REALLY can be done as far as manipulating some the newer (last 10 years) radios, however some people see it as a crime to post that information here. Why even bother having this place if we tell people they can hack.... just not too much. Too much gets censored here. Maybe thats why people don't post anymore?

I offer a solution to the disconnection of the forums from the 'model specific' info archives, as well as a way for us to share information without eliteist information control:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

-c

jnglmassiv wrote:
Elroy Jetson wrote:Sound sensible?
Better idea. Update the Astro section on Batlabs.com with modern, relevant information. When new Motorola users who are interested in their radios search the web for Astro information, Batlabs is among the few resources out there. The Astro section is, at the moment and no offense, pathetic. I think most people here would agree with this assessment. If new users ask newbie questions, I recommend answering with a smile or not answering at all. Like television..don't like what's on? Turn it off. No one likes a whiner. This goes for the lounge, too. It is what it is. And what it is is fun, most of the time. IMO, its important to have a non-specific catchall to keep the junk out of the 'real' forums.

Often, its hard to know what to search for or how to ask the right questions whe one is starting in a new hobby. An example Newbie Astro question might be how to monitor a digital TRS without affiliating with that system. However, if you were new to the nomenclature, you wouldn't know to search for 'affliate' and its not mentioned on the Astro model specific pages. There's no reason to get upset with this person. They're just trying to do what we all are: getting the most out of our radios.

I think that those who frequent the boards get a real sense of an active stifling of new information. New posts regarding flashcode manipulation and second party software development are summarily closed if not deleted on hazy IP grounds. Take the example of this group:
http://www.nuclearelephant.com/papers/v710hackers.html
They feature an active "Hacker Reward Program" with hard cash (and not a small amount) for successful mods and opening of features on cellphones. Seeing, here:
http://www.motorola.com/annualreport/20 ... ights.html
that Motorola earns fully twice as much on personal cellular devices than the entire CGISS division (of which actual radios comprise some fraction of that dividion), its clear who is presenting the real threat to Motorola's IP. That they don't/can't go after this group is telling. The trade or sale of RSS is pretty cut and dry copyright violation. The other stuff, less so. What it would do is get more interest, enthusiasm and activity on the boards. It might ruffle some feathers with the elitists or those making some money running private radio servicing operations but who is the board here to serve anyway? On preview, obviously this paragraph is mostly my opinion and I mean no offense to anyone. I just hate being cowed by some shadowy, poorly defined non-threat.

[/url]

007 · Post by **007** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:06 pm

Insofar as IP goes:

Either the board should allow open discussion of RSS and TRS system hacks, or it should limit/restrict/prohibit both.

I see TRS related threads all over, with people providing info how to hack radios onto TRS' all the time. This involves RSS and a system key, both are considered IP.

I personally do not support Joe Q. Jedi making his radio operate on TRS. If his poorly programmed radio pre-empts or otherwise interfers with a real user, then that is unacceptable. Is it the board's fault that the assclown can't program? No, but why enable his behavior? He should have a scanner anyway.

Other than that, I agree that the board needs some type of overhaul with some extensive FAQ's or something. We keep seeing the same posts all over, all the time.

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:28 am

it should be pretty obvious there is a huge difference between helping "john q hacker" put his radio to TX on a police system, and "why doesnt my CDM S band go out of band with CPS.

i also agree about the main page, i have sent some stuff in and have yet to see it, some of it were corrections, some new stuff (i have to dig back into my notes now to see). I would like to note that i was VERY pleased to see the moflag stuff go up there. I know not every thing that gets discovered on the batboard can go in there, but there are a TON of very good items that SHOULD be there. If putting the moflag steps on the main page was ok, the i would say 80% of the other stuff here should be too.

Post by **wavetar** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:52 am

Judging by some of the comments, I think I must've completely missed the boat on what this board is all about! Here's my view of things. Whether you agree with them or not, I ask you take the time to read what I have to say.

The primary concern of this board is NOT to hack the crap out of your Motorola radio. That mainly comes as a side benefit of people who like to experiment on their equipment, and that's all well & good. Do not confuse this with what the board has historically been about.

This board exists as a unique place on the internet for people who own Motorola radios to help each other. There is NO other place like it. It's amazing to me that people can come here with their multitude of questions and receive timely, informative advice. On anything from 'what is a radio, and how does it affect me' to 'what's the next step on this Centracom/Smartzone issue we have going on', and everything in between. Helping people is what it's all about. It's what caused me to keep coming back, day after day, year after year once I found it. It's a huge asset to everyone, and it's the result of a combined effort by many, many people over a lot of years & many different incarnations to bring it to the level it's at today. I think some people have lost sight of this, and believe the board 'owes' them something.

It's a two-way street people. It doesn't matter how smart you think you are, or how much you may know. There is not a single person on this board who hasn't been helped out at some point in the past by members here, including myself. Whether it be having a question directly answered on the board, applying information found in someone else's thread, receiving help off-board via phone call/email/PM, etc...we have ALL benefitted. Not to mention it's given us a (mostly) trustworthy way to buy/sell/trade goods both Motorola & other.

We were all 'Newbies' at one time or another. We may have had varying levels of knowledge coming onto the board, but we did all have to start somewhere in the past. To have benefitted from your mentors, be it here on the board or elsewhere, and not show the same patience, understanding & guidance that was shown to you is not fair. Not only unfair, it has to make yourself ask what sort of person you really are.

There is no single person who is/was bigger than this board. Nobody...me...Alex...Elroy...TPG...XMO...r0f...no none. Anyone who thinks he is, can & should leave as you're not helping to better the place.

These are my own opinions. Feel free to post or send me an email/PM to agree, disagree, or tell me to take a flying f*ck at the moon. At least I'll know you have read it.

Todd

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:52 am

i didnt mean to imply that this board was designed to "hack the crap out of your motorola"

i just thought it was odd that some hacking was ok, but others not.. yes i understand the talk of certain things may cross the line, but if you have the moflags mapped on the main page, as well as all the maxtrac mods, but yet lately its been "oh we cant talk about that, it will piss off motorola"
Yes, the maxtrac/maratrac mods can be defended with "well that helps get better performance on the ham bands" ok fair enough, not everything that is "ok" falls into that category.

Face it, yes this is a site to help people with ALL facets of motorola radios, and I for one look upon the information on this site as invaluable, It is a team effort. Im sure that its a daunting task to sort thru all the submissions to the main page, as you just dont want to post anything that everyone puts here, i dont know how to solve that one.

Post by Pj » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:59 am

Just a quick reply, and I'll throw my 2cents in later, the main page of Batlabs is not under our control. There is a good amount of information that needs to be sorted thru, and the man in charge unfortunatley doesn't aways have the time to do it. Yes it would be nice to have it updated frequently, however there are times in which there just isn't anything to update.

Some members here also believe that items posted to the board will be gone thru and updated to the main site. That's not true. It must be emailed directly to him off of the batlabs site: http://www.batlabs.com/email.html

As Wavetar mentioned, the site was not created to "hack" into systems, etc. It was to gather knowledge, and help people with all the new emerging techonlogy that was coming out at the creation of the board. Sometimes it takes YEARS to figure stuff out. The ASTRO line has been out since 1994ish, and now 10 years later we are STILL trying to figure stuff out on the Astro Spectra.

With the example of hackers paying hackers, that is a very dangerous stance to take, and something I don't think the board is going to remotely approach. Just because Motorola (or the wireless industry) hasn't shut them down yet, doesn't mean they are not going to.

When it comes to software, be it Motorola or Microsoft, people get real uptight about it. The main purpose for the software sale/trades etc is for the board's protection and survival, and persons legal well being. The trend lately about TRS's, though not a board policy or rule, is for the safety of people using these TRS's...namely police/fire/EMS and ultimately, your safety and wellbeing. One wrong option enabled, or in the hands of a true wacknut, and really bad things can happen quickley.

If you haven't experienced the speed of light, you will when the fleet of lawyers come and zap this board into the closest black hole.

More later...

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:00 am

I think the forum was here for a few reasons:

1 - To help answer questions based on the content of the main site.
So, what's in the main site? Honestly.. mostly hacker stuff. Cheap cables, MDF editing to HACK your radio for MORE CHANNELS and features. Maxtrac, GP300 got ripped apart and put back together extensively. It seems to me that the main site was to allow the financially unstable (poor people like me) to "pop the hood" and max it out. Cable diagrams, hex editing is all for tweaking your radio. It doesn't really go into legit programming assitance. If I want to enable MDC on my Maxtrac THAT ALREADY HAS THE OPTION it isn't even in there. So the theory of "helping new people" is true to the hacking sense.

2 - Exchange of ideas to better "tweak" radios.
Meeting of the minds if you will. Remember "natedog"? He hacked the spectra to a level never before published or widely known. How did the board respond? Overwhelmingly positive!!!! Mostly because people get to expand the radio easier than buying a new(er) one. The board demeanor was great. People could take this new information and apply it to their own projects and see the fruits of thier labor. That was a VERY good thread.

3 - Buy and Sell radios from people who you know instead of eBay or unknown hamfest people.
This was secondary, but still a good idea.

That's all I can think of from the top of my head.

As for the board owing me? (ref: wavetar) The board doesn't owe me $hit. I'm here to answer questions, occasionally ask when other resources aren't readily available. I've never really whined or cried about anything. The Disney FRS thread was fun, r0fs keyloader thing was great, but it's situtational humor and sometimes needed to break up the pace. I'm trying to brainstorm ideas to improve morale on the board (which is clearly on the downside.)

TRS info... touchy subject. If the batboard provides the information that allows 'John Q. Whackjob' to mod his radio to follow a system, and he gets busted for interfering... "But they said...." and then it's all about how the DA wants to read our instructions. I can't personally cough up a lot of $$$ for a legal defence even IF it is freedom of information. Avoidance is the best policy for all. Why risk being questioned when it can be avoided.

That brings me to radio "upgrades." Publicly putting out info will get M on you like a fat guy on a cupcake. Again, why bother putting yourself at risk to the CHANCE it might happen. For Maxtrac, HT1000, Spectras... older discontinued products, I'd bet they WANT you to screw with them and blow them up to take them out of circulation. As for the newer stuff, astro spectra, MCS, XTS3000's.... That's $$$ you are taking from them by releasing info publicly how to upgrade radios. Secondly, if everyone posts what they know and how to hack them, how fast before they counter it. Ever look at DTV and Dish forums. A hack comes out, and 20min to an hour later.. GEE IT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE!!! GO FIGURE. So much lab has been leaked in the past that they lost control of the way to limit change to the radio. Srecords have been comprimised. They countered it by changing srecords. That took awhile, but because they are seeing more and more tampering... additional considerations and coutermeasures have been put into place that may not have had to. ESN's and such.

This forum has the ability to cater to all sorts of people and serve different needs. I agree with the "if you don't like it change the channel" statement. If a post I see can either be answered by existing information available, or it seems like someone has NOT A CLUE what they're doing, I avoid the thread. However, not answering leads to "bumps" or more threads in other forums, or multiple threads in the same forum.

Oh well... back to work.

Holy cow.. I typed that much?
tpg

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:40 am

First things first. TPG, I want to offer an apology on some of my last statements.. going back and reading what you wrote and my reply, I definately got hit by the train there, instead of getting on at the next stop.

Now...

Everyone has a different perception of what these forums are all about. To HACK or not to HACK. That is the question. I don't think these forums or this site was for the average hacker persay... Yes it offers modifications to get the most out of your equipment. Most of the early incarnations of the main page offered a lot of information mostly on taking a radio out of band for Amateur use. While a lot of the information is starting to steer away from that initial format, the information still benefits everyone that owns/uses a Motorola radio. If you have learned just 1 thing from this site, then it has done it's job.

As far as the layout of the board. I think a test is not the way to go.. you'll drive more people away than gain. Tests or evaluations are intimidating. I don't care how confident or experienced you are. If you are a paramedic and the Chief of Ops for your company comes in one day and tells you that you are coming off the road for skills evaluation, it's going to make you uncomfortable. That goes along with testing someone for admittance into an area on a FREE site, with FREE information. You'd say "In order to enter you must take a test." My reaction(To quote Cartman) is.. "Screw you guys.. I'm goin home.". Now with the Lounge. Yeah the lounge definately has it's group of degenerates. Any online community has them. And you think it's bad here... This ain't nothin. Go check out the Star Wars forums that are out there. That is definately where geekdom goes bad. So, do we need the lounge? Probably not, but would you want to wade through the eBay posts, and jokes, and "I Love Geo Bush, and I hate John Kerry" threads to get an answer or provide an answer to a question. I don't think that you would want to. Everything has it's place and time. At the time the lounge was a great idea. It's still a great idea, because it is utilized for other information that is off topic. And a little comic relief is good too.

So if you want this to be a better place I guess the message here is to help out and contribute the best you can.... kind of the "If you build it, they will come" scenario. And it'll be to the benefit of everyone here.

Post by **alex** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:14 am

Builing on TPG and what Jaymz said -

I be willing to entertain the idea of doing some "restructuring" of the forums here.

TPG has some very valid points in his last post.

With this in mind -

Maybe:

General Discussion (topic header)
- Hardware Problems
- Software Questions and Answers
- Parts Identification (To snag M's term)

FSWT
- Sell and Trade your stuph
- Feedback for above.

Focused Discussions
- Amateur 900mhz Discussion as it stands now (no change)
- Remove hardware information wanted forum, as General would cover that
- Advanced Astro Radio Discussion (discussion above and beyond software/hardware problems/questions).
- System Infrastructure (as it stands now)

Off Topic Discussion
- Lounge
- Vehicle Installs (I guess it's more of an off topic thing in the end)

Archives
- Old General Discussion
- Hardware Info Wanted

Maybe something like that would suit the community better?

We have been operating under the "old" format, with some minor adaptions since the inception of the "new board software" and there really haven't been many changes.

I'm not saying the above will happen, but i'm putting it out there for the sake of discussion. Ultimate decision will lie with the administration/moderator team that we have in place here.

-Alex

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:28 am

On the subject of "newbie posts": I deal with helicopter mechanics in the field, every day. I understand people's frustration with having to answer the same basic questions over and over again. Maybe it is because I have to do this every day that I am a little more immune to it. But, some of the responses to these questions are downright hostile. While I can understand the frustration, the hostility is out of line. If you feel that angry about it, then don't respond. It's much easier on your blood pressure to just roll your eyes and teach, than it is to get fired up about it. The pool of people here comes from many varied backgrounds. That newbie radio guy who you were nasty to, because he asked a question about PL tones? He might be a carpenter, and you just might need a very basic carpentry answered some day. You think you will get it from him? Even the FAQs can be confusing. Not every radio newbie would immediately recognize the term "PL", and know exactly what it was. I guess what I am saying is.........if you want to teach here, then teach. If you don't, then just don't respond. Roll your eyes, bang your fist on the desk......heck, go kick your dog for all I care. But don't be nasty in your answer. Although, I have to admit...........the response about using the "non-standard 60Hz PL" on a repeater was funny as hell.

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:53 am

The Pager Geek wrote:Remember "natedog"? He hacked the spectra to a level never before published or widely known. How did the board respond? Overwhelmingly positive!!!! .... That was a VERY good thread.

Yah, too bad that thread got yanked for unexplained reasons. http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=#153256

I don't care that the Moflag info exists elsewhere, that thread itself was a great learning tool and when it was active, there were lots of good questions regarding memory addresses on various MLM versions.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:55 am

Add one more under General Discussion:
Projects in the works ... or something.

For unique stuff like:
Natedog's spectra project
The MDC decoder project
Custom software stuff....

Projects that don't really have a specifc answer or question (or home), but a place where people can toss ideas or assist with "undertakings"

All else looks good.
(I don't like the concept of tests... In this industry there are those than can, and those that can't. People will know who is good and who is bad based on reptutation and previous answers.)

one of my favorite "Bud light real america heros" ad:
"Today we solute you, Mr. Pro Sports Heckler Man. They say, 'For those who can't play... coach.' Well apparently those who can't coach sit 30 rows back, shouting obscenities."

tpg

007 · Post by **007** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:56 am

grem467 wrote:it should be pretty obvious there is a huge difference between helping "john q hacker" put his radio to TX on a police system, and "why doesnt my CDM S band go out of band with CPS.

Absolutely...there is a big difference, and I'm all about helping with hardware and useage questions. 90% of the posts are well within everyone's tolerance and on track with furthering our hobby.

As for the forum re-alignment....I'm all for it.

A suggestion for the vehicle forum:

Limit the posts and pictures to relevant installs of mobile two way radio systems that we cover here. All off the "I've got these lights" posts are not what the BatBoard is about...perhaps it could be renamed "Mobile Radio Installs" or something similar?

clavo · Post by **clavo** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:45 pm

Why no comment on using Wiki? It's couldn't be a better solution for us. Admins and Mods don't have to do any moving and WE can share information as we see fit.

I offer a solution to the disconnection of the forums from the 'model specific' info archives, as well as a way for us to share information without eliteist information control:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

It's easy to implement and the board users can take it from there. I'd like to hear some good reasons why NOT to set up a Wiki system here. The only negative reasons I can see is a few at the top not wanting information to be shared freely.

-c

Post by **alex** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:28 pm

I've been thinking about this all day -- I think it's a good idea -- but I'm stuck on what TPG said - if it's IP related, and - hurts the M bottom dollar - they will be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake.

Just my oppinion on the matter.

With that - if you want to do something - go ahead and do it. I can't give you a "stamp of approval" to run out and post up stuff that could be IP. That's your decision to make on your own, without the support of this board.

Maybe I'm thinking too deeply in this, and your goal isn't to do that.

Just my $0.02.

-Alex

jnglmassiv · Post by **jnglmassiv** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:21 pm

Alex wrote: if it's IP related, and - hurts the M bottom dollar - they will be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake

Ok, so what's intellectual property?
What we (Batlabs and Motorola) all agree is IP: Motorola produced RSS/CPS. System keys for TRS.

What Motorola thinks is IP that Batlabs doesn't: Cable diagrams, codeplug trading, Saber2 to Saber 3 conversions, MoFlag hacks.

What Motorola thinks is IP but Batlabs isn't sure: codeplug manipulation and independant software development.

Given the apparent interest in the latter catagory and the permitted hacks, what does determine IP?

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:12 pm

For our purposes, IP is defined as "The level of knowledge and modification, WITHOUT getting yourself in trouble."

A spectra moflag thread? Old, discontinued product. I'm sure they aren't thrilled, but they are off to newer, "greater" technology. (Digital.)

Post a thread on how to max an astro spectra's flashcode and how to talk on the most recent digital system... and I could count the minutes before an admin's phone rings from M IS.

We as a board have tempered the level of how much is posted based on projects that are intorduced. I personally don't WANT to see astro hacking posted yet because of the possibility of M. I relate it to a 4 year old sticking a fork into an electric socket. Either it's turned off or the voltage is too low, and everything is fine. Find the "switch" and someone's getting zapped.

tpg

clavo · Post by **clavo** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:03 pm

Oh, I see what you are saying. So because Astro Sabers have been discontinued they are fair game.

-c

The Pager Geek wrote:For our purposes, IP is defined as "The level of knowledge and modification, WITHOUT getting yourself in trouble."

A spectra moflag thread? Old, discontinued product. I'm sure they aren't thrilled, but they are off to newer, "greater" technology. (Digital.)

Post a thread on how to max an astro spectra's flashcode and how to talk on the most recent digital system... and I could count the minutes before an admin's phone rings from M IS.

We as a board have tempered the level of how much is posted based on projects that are intorduced. I personally don't WANT to see astro hacking posted yet because of the possibility of M. I relate it to a 4 year old sticking a fork into an electric socket. Either it's turned off or the voltage is too low, and everything is fine. Find the "switch" and someone's getting zapped.

tpg

boomboy64 · Post by **boomboy64** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:13 pm

One comment about using WiKi. You still don't deal with the main issue of what is IP and what isn't. Just look at WiKipedia, and you'll discover that many pages get pulled by the admins for copyright issues. I agree that it is a good idea for format, but there are deeper questions about limits of IP that have to be addressed first.

Dan
VE4EOD

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:01 pm

clavo wrote:Oh, I see what you are saying. So because Astro Sabers have been discontinued they are fair game.

-c

The Pager Geek wrote:For our purposes, IP is defined as "The level of knowledge and modification, WITHOUT getting yourself in trouble."

A spectra moflag thread? Old, discontinued product. I'm sure they aren't thrilled, but they are off to newer, "greater" technology. (Digital.)

Post a thread on how to max an astro spectra's flashcode and how to talk on the most recent digital system... and I could count the minutes before an admin's phone rings from M IS.

We as a board have tempered the level of how much is posted based on projects that are intorduced. I personally don't WANT to see astro hacking posted yet because of the possibility of M. I relate it to a 4 year old sticking a fork into an electric socket. Either it's turned off or the voltage is too low, and everything is fine. Find the "switch" and someone's getting zapped.

tpg

Not exactly. The newer technology that is making them money right now is still a feature of the portable.. therefore it's "off limits." (For me anyways.)

tpg

Calling the Astro Digital Design Team (Motorolans)

Calling the Astro Digital Design Team (Motorolans)

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yeah... ahem

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