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redbeard wrote:As for the TSA grabbing someone for having a fancy radio on their belt, that's a bit extreme. So what if it looked like what they were using, doesn't mean you were trying to listen to or disrupt their comms. Even if you were listening, that's no crime. At PBZ, you can't even go to the Airmall without passing security. Plenty of people with real reasons to have a portable with them go through there. Just looking the same doesn't mean it's even in the same band.
I doubt a $25k/yr TSA agent even knows, or cares what bandsplit your radio is. They're there to look for suspicious item or people. The AVERAGE citizen has NO USE for an XTS3000. Yes in our little radio world it's perfectly reasonable, but to the rest of the world (And the especially the TSA agents) seeing Joe Blow carrying one of the radios, especially if it is the same type they use comes off as suspicious to them! What we think is normal about radios is really no where close to what the general population does.
Agreed, they really have no idea and are just going on looks. I'd say a quick question or two might be in order, just to be on the cautious and observant side. Tying someone up for a long time with extensive questioning is out of line. If they ask why you have it, and your answer of ham radio or i'm in the two-way radio business isn't enough of an answer for them then they are being too picky. And if those two answers don't fit your purpose without lying...then you probably shouldn't be trying to go through security with it on your belt. Throw it in a carry-on or your luggage. At least have it off and/or not have it tuned to the airport's freqs. Especially when they ask you to turn it on so they can see the screen, as they do with all portable electronics like pagers and cellphones.
I've been reading the posts on this topic, good discussions. I must say, I do disagree with any hacking of radios for access to a "closed" system, such as a trunk. If I wanted to listen to a trunked system that bad, I would buy a scanner. Besides, at some point they will add encryption to keep you from hearing anyway. Where I live the state is on a new APCO 25 digital 800 statewide trunk, I really never had much interest in listenting to them anyway, but I do miss hearing the Highway trucks in the winter. You couldn't understand the state troopers when they were on low band, so if the operater hasnt changed, listening to them on the new system will be equally unenjoyable as well.
I do listen to local law on my M1225 and P1225, and fire, etc on my 2066 scanner. My radio clearly will not transmit on thier freqs and nor would I want to. I value the security they should have as much as they do. I used to work for the M shop that serviced thier radios and I know we always worked diligently to keep people from getting anything programmed to xmit without specific written permission from the Sheriff, Chief. I would never, nor ever let my staff program a xmit freq into any radio without a cross check of the freq, licesnsee and permission, both written and usually a follow up call to the Sheriff, etc. They always appreicated that.
As far as some guy asking me about the radio on my belt, thats just some unknowledgeable or uninformed idiot that does not understand radio, let alone that anyone can listen to almost anything in the clear. Just becasue he has one, its a psychological thing, he has to challenge someone else. Now I wouldn't take my radio to the airport with me, I don't need a hassle and I wouldn't need it there anyway. As far as these idiots that are empowered by the radio they carry....they probably won't like the 9mm I carry either, and yes, I have a license to do so.
10-95 wrote: secrets are no longer secrets once at least two people know about it.
Frank
Two people CAN keep a secret, as long as one is dead.
SG
Ben Franklin called; he wants his quote back.
I couldn't find the article in the Detroit Free Press. All I could find are homocides and other violent crimes. About two years ago I ran into a former co-worker who had an astro spectra programmed with a new P25 digital system used by about 5 local PD's in metro Detroit. I asked him about it and he claims he paid $900 for it. Damn thing could tx too. I wonder if he got it from the same guy.
10-95 wrote: secrets are no longer secrets once at least two people know about it.
Frank
Two people CAN keep a secret, as long as one is dead.
SG
Ben Franklin called; he wants his quote back.
I couldn't find the article in the Detroit Free Press. All I could find are homocides and other violent crimes. About two years ago I ran into a former co-worker who had an astro spectra programmed with a new P25 digital system used by about 5 local PD's in metro Detroit. I asked him about it and he claims he paid $900 for it. Damn thing could tx too. I wonder if he got it from the same guy.
Damn! I thought I actually came up with that one! I guess it's true what Pete Townsend wrote in in his song "905": "Everything I've ever said has been said before." I want Ben's number, I wanna find out where he got that quote!
On the TSA guys seeing you in an Airport with an XTS , I'd be more inclinded to think you are a snoop trying to keep and eye on them to make sure they don't feel up somebodys breast!
10-95 wrote:On the TSA guys seeing you in an Airport with an XTS , I'd be more inclinded to think you are a snoop trying to keep and eye on them to make sure they don't feel up somebodys breast!
Well don't give up your job description frank
I have had no problems with TSA in Boston, or in NYC. Rochester has some other group of goons that runs things, but I've never had a problem... It's one of the airports you can show up 10 minutes before your flight, have your bags checked, and be sitting on the plane 9 minutes before your flight leaves.
I've never been thru the airport with an XTS (as I don't own one), but I have carried my SysSaber and MT2000 through at various points. The most that ever happened was they swabbed them with those pads that are supposed to pick up traces of explosives (same as they've done to my laptop), and put them through the x-ray machine in their own seperate tray. More often than not they don't say anything at all.
I can't honestly ever see it going this far, but I have pondered what I'd do if they made a big deal out of it, and the best answer I came up with is I'd simply show them my FCC license (which you're required to have with you at any time you're operating) and explain that it authorizes me to operate on the amateur bands (I only ever take my UHF/VHF gear with me anyway). If that didn't do it... *shrug* guess I'd go home :)
I travel for a communications company in my new job to DC all the time and carry many radios in my carry on. They have never asked me for anything orquestioned anything. I usually have between 4 and 6 portables with me at any one time.
I usually use LAX, DCA, IAD, DEN, MCO as my normal airports with the same results at all of them.
All the radio's are P25 and have full encryption DES-OFB & AES encryption.
OH I still have the badge company LOL, just wanted to play with radios and get paid for it.
Stan Glass
Government & Entertainment Division Manager (Kenwood)
Guess the questioning really depends on the situation...
I usually have on me (in a pocket, not on my belt) either a HT1000 (Mora police and Kanabec County sheriff use them too) or a HT1225 (Mora public works uses them in half their fleet), and have never been questioned for reasons outside of curiousity.
Of course I never really leave them scanning, and I never have any TX freqs for PS agencies in them either (only RX, and only for fire and med dispatch, just so I can figure out where the sirens are headed and why).
In fact, the only non-personal freqs I've ever enabled TX for on my radios have been the electric company and the school district during the times I worked for them, and even then I think I was lucky to have a reason to transmit once a month on those.
But, on the other hand, carrying a 20-year-old Bearcat scanner with the local police dispatch tuned in has nearly gotten me into trouble numerous times. Just walking down the street and listening to it for fun would yield a LOT of funny looks, as well as the occasional old man who would stop me and think he was going to 'lay down the law' by telling me how illegal that scanner of mine was.
So, as many people before me have said, USE COMMON SENSE OUT THERE. Whether or not you choose to WILL make or break you, and eventually will decide the fate of the hobby.
And yes, I will soon be faced with trunking - Minnesota's statewide 800 system is spreading, and in a few years will probably be within listening distance of my rural town, if not replacing much of the VHF analog stuff that runs rampant in this area. I don't know what will be best to do when that happens, but judging by the way people responded to the 'black magic' I performed with that old scanner, I'll have to be smart and keep it quiet if I want to continue listening.
That may mean that the scanner folk around here (there's lots of scanning fans in my area, but few hams) who are always on my doorstep with some Rat Shack device for me to program, will be left with nothing to listen to. But then I would never put anything with a TX button in the hands of 99% of them, either.
alex wrote: Rochester has some other group of goons that runs things, but I've never had a problem... It's one of the airports you can show up 10 minutes before your flight, have your bags checked, and be sitting on the plane 9 minutes before your flight leaves.
alex wrote: Rochester has some other group of goons that runs things, but I've never had a problem... It's one of the airports you can show up 10 minutes before your flight, have your bags checked, and be sitting on the plane 9 minutes before your flight leaves.
-Alex
Al Queda thanks you for the Airport intel Alex.
The sad thing is that this is the reality at most non-major airports...
redbeard wrote:I was dumpster diving one night as a local mall when a cop pulled up and was questioning me about my activities. He looked in to my vehicle and saw my Uniden BC250 scanner in it's holder on the side of the dash. As soon as he saw it, the avalanche of questions started. "Why do you have that" "What are you listening to with that" "Did you know scanners are illegal in Pennsylvania?"
Keep in mind that the scanner was off, I was not using it to listen to see if the cops were called, etc. which IS illegal. I told him I listen to various agencies around the area, and when asked why I said for curiousity and entertainment. That's when he laid the whopper on me and told me scanners were illegal. Flabbergasted that he would even say such a nonsensical thing, I waffled on my response and said that I didn't believe they were instead of just flat out telling him he was incorrect. I then stated that I am a ham radio operator, and even if there was such a law that I am exempt due to federal law. He seemed to buy that statement, but not without looking at my ham license that I showed him first.
Moral of the story? It's not about the radio you're carrying, it's what you are doing to get the attention of a LEO while you have a radio with you. After that it's just one more excuse for them to question your motives. I'm sure a lot more would have been made of things had the scanner been turned on and locked to the local PD dispatch freq. He did let me go, with a warning that they don't allow people to do that without permission of the property/store owners.
Oh, and I don't really care what anyone thinks of my dumpstering antics. It's much cheaper grabbing boxes and styrofoam peanuts from store bins than buying it at Staples. Plus I get a new toy every once and awhile if I hit the right bin. Office Max seems to throw everything away that's returned to the store, broke or not.
As for the TSA grabbing someone for having a fancy radio on their belt, that's a bit extreme. So what if it looked like what they were using, doesn't mean you were trying to listen to or disrupt their comms. Even if you were listening, that's no crime. At PBZ, you can't even go to the Airmall without passing security. Plenty of people with real reasons to have a portable with them go through there. Just looking the same doesn't mean it's even in the same band.
Geez, That kind of reminds me of the time we tracked down the jammer that has been jamming our repeater for 3 years, we had PD come out and PROVED to them that his radio xmits on our system, as well as a couple county LE channels that were still conventional, They said "well it doesnt sound illegal to us" and let the guy go, then yelled at us for detaining the guy. Then when we tried to file a complaint with the FCC about the guy they refused to do anything about it either. hmm makes you wonder.
A fair number of the sleeze-O-Rama have a working relationship with the local LEOs.
We have seen time and again where this has happened.
When you see video of the police and how they treat the suspects vs the average joe.
The secret service will, in most cases, not even allow the local LEOs near the " war room " due to the " cop leaks ".
The press is ready, willing, and able, to play along with this.
Kind of like the new agency that was to only deal with crime against women issues.
Cops were happy.
Press was happy.
Federal judge was not happy.
Something about a very old federal law.
It starts with 'we the people'.
Well,
These "sysadmins" and "LEOs" probably wouldnt know what the hell was on my belt anyway. Many of us batlabbers can look at a radio and know instantly by the antenna type if its UHF/VHF or 800. I could walk down the street with an astro saber and I might get a yawn at best. They just dont use those out here. Now, if I carried my 800MHz M-RK down the street, I would be a little nervous because THAT is what is on the deputies belts out here, or an LPE-200. A 7100IP would really earn me a hairy eyeball.
Radio Tech Troubleshooting Golden Rule #1: Check your connections
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