'Nick' Radios Being Recalled . . . BY MOTOROLA !

[xmo]

Well - this thread has certainly gotten long! It has, at times, strayed a little close to a lounge type discussion - but on the whole has been a good forum for discussion of what is a very serious issue.

I have had conversation with a number of individuals regarding this matter and combining that information with ideas suggested in this thread, I want to make the following suggestions and notice.

First the suggestions.

A. For recipients of the letter. Do NOTHING. Do NOT return your property to Motorola until you have their assurance that it will be aligned to specifications and returned to you for a reasonable fee.

B. For Motorola. For any radio you have received as a result of these letters, contact the owner who sent it to you and offer to repair and return it to that individual for your standard depot fee, thereby properly aligning the radio and resolving the stated concern of hazard to public safety.

The notice:

FORMAL NOTICE TO MOTOROLA AND MR. PATRIC L. HARRINGTON

Sir,

Your letter threatens further legal action against any individual who does not comply with your terms. Please be advised of the following.

Regarding your claim that a parts built radio is illegal.

At least one individual who is an intended recipient of your letter is prepared to testify in a court of law that he has in his posession such a parts built radio that was repaired by your Radio Support Center in Rockford, Il.

Said radio was submitted for repair with a serial number tag made by the owner of the radio and returned with a serial number tag created by your Radio Support Center.

Further, said radio was submitted for repair containing the same flashcode as the radio referenced in your letter, 591008-4F1E00-9. Said radio was returned to its owner by your Radio Support Center with the same flashcode.

The original Radio Support Center workticket paperwork for this transaction is available for submission as evidence.

Please be prepared to show how one such parts built radio can be interpreted to be illegal while another such parts built radio was acceptable to your company for repair and return to its owner.

[Splat]

I don't recall anyone stating their letter from M mentioned anything about flashcodes. Has anyone got such a letter?

[xmo]

Now it seems that the folks over at radioreference have determined that the signatory of these intimidating letters, one Patrick L. Harrington, is in fact a licensed radio amateur.

They have published contact information for Mr. Harrington. I suspect it is a fair assumption that Mr. Harrington will be receiving a few - ah.. QSL's regarding this matter.

Now, just because you received a letter from him which you perceived to contain threats, and your first inclination would be to contact him in an attempt to arrange to return the radio to him personally [without benefit of adequate lubricant] - I would not recommend responding to him in that manner.

[Splat]

I wouldn't recommend ANYONE talking to him off-record about this issue.

[2wayfreq]

Whoa,
I would do this too:

1. Confirm that this court case indeed exists and was not fabricated.

2. Confirm that person is indeed an employee of M (if possible) and not some scam artist trying to have people send expensive motorola radios to him. I mean, that would be very clever- scare people into send ing the radio to that address and its really someone else.

3. If you get a "box", is the send address going to a confirmed addy at MOT or some obscure place?

I mean, anyone can make up a fake M letter and make up some scary words.

[10-95]

Now it seems that the folks over at radioreference have determined that the signatory of these intimidating letters, one Patrick L. Harrington, is in fact a licensed radio amateur.

They have published contact information for Mr. Harrington. I suspect it is a fair assumption that Mr. Harrington will be receiving a few - ah.. QSL's regarding this matter.

Now, just because you received a letter from him which you perceived to contain threats, and your first inclination would be to contact him in an attempt to arrange to return the radio to him personally [without benefit of adequate lubricant] - I would not recommend responding to him in that manner.

Something tells me that Pat is following this thread. Hey Pat, care to create a user name and pop in????


Frank

[alex]

Yes, he infact does work for Motorola, and it is a real court case, which resulted in a federal injunction.

-Alex

[2wayfreq]

This would be clever too:

Said employee works for M. Makes up a scary letter to have a bunch of people send radios to him (as if they were being sent in for "service") and skates off with a bunch of goodies. Hmmmm!
Yeah, i know --far fetched hehe

[10-95]

This would be clever too:

Said employee works for M. Makes up a scary letter to have a bunch of people send radios to him (as if they were being sent in for "service") and skates off with a bunch of goodies. Hmmmm!
Yeah, i know --far fetched hehe

In this day and age that is not far fetched at all! You probably gave some Tech at the depot an idea!

Frank

[ScannerDan]

Hmmmm, so has anyone actually read the full Arizona court case ? I mean it should tell you what the Court has actually ruled & ordered. If Nick was only ordered not to make, sell, manufacture, loan, etc. anymore radios but the Judge didn’t order all sold radios returned then I would have to say that this is a BS letter. I’m not an attorney, but if the Judge didn’t order all radios returned than under what authority is Motorola requesting the return of someone else’s property ? I would have to say that this sound a lot like extortion to me. I will do something if you don’t do what I want. I think there is a Federal law against this.

[redbeard]

Cowthief,

What was your trouble with ma M and what was the final outcome?

Also, what is this stuff about XTS5000s from a fire? Can anyone elaborate on that one?

[Splat]

The more I think about this the more it sounds like the flashcodes probably weren't in question of legality. If Nick had obtained or used them illegally don't you think M would've gotten some type of recompense? From what we've all heard so far, that doesn't seem to be the case. Sounds more like a draw. If that's the case, there's no illegality I can see, but I'm no lawyer, of simply owning one of Nick's radios. Anyone else consult a laywer on this yet?

[HOWARD]

Scanner Dan, the info I posted is the actual court documents from the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona (Tucson). You can log onto the PACER SERVICE CENTER website and read it for yourself: http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/
Nowhere, does it mention anything about ordering the "Nick Radios" to be returned to Motorola.
[/url][/code]

[ScannerDan]

Here is the actual injunction which was issued by the Honorable Raner C. Collins:



5/5/04 8 PERMANENT INJUNCTION by Judge Raner C. Collins granting stipulation for permanent injunction by pla Motorola Inc, dft Nicholas DeLuca; Ordered dft DeLuca and all his officers, directors, and all those persons or entities acting in active concert or participation with him and who receive actual notice of this injunction, are permanently enjoined and prohibited from: The manufacture, advertising, marketing, promoting, offering for sale, selling, distribution, programming or transferring of non-genuine Motorola radios, parts or equipment, making any unauthorized use in commerce of any trademarks owned by Motorola, Make any unauthorized use of any Motorola Radio Service Software Computer programming software, making any unauthorized use of any Motorola trademark, trade name, logo or copyrighted work, Using any logo, trade name, trademark, or service mark that may be calculated to falsely represent or which has the effect to falsely represent DeLuca, palming or passing off radios or other products as genuine Motorola products, Assisting, aiding, or abetting any other person or entity from engaging in any of the acts set forth in above paragraphs; Further ordered that the Court shall maintain jurisdiction over this permanent injunction (cc: all counsel) (jkm)



a) It orders DeLuca and all his officers, directors, and all those persons or entities acting in active concert or participation with him.

b) Are permanently enjoined and prohibited from: The manufacture, advertising, marketing, promoting, offering for sale, selling, distribution, programming or transferring of non-genuine Motorola radios, parts or equipment;

c) Make any unauthorized use in commerce of any trademarks owned by Motorola.

d) Make any unauthorized use of any Motorola Radio Service Software Computer programming software.

e) Make any unauthorized use of any Motorola trademark, trade name, logo or copyrighted work, Using any logo, trade name, trademark, or service mark that may be calculated to falsely represent or which has the effect to falsely represent DeLuca.

f) Palming or passing off radios or other products as genuine Motorola products.



Now the question is, who is “his Officers, directors and all those persons or entities acting in active concert or participation with him.”

By further reading the injection above it clearly states what can and can’t be done. No were is there an order by the Judge for Motorola to collect all the radios. I’m assuming that since there is no order by the Judge Motorola really has no standing with there letter. Maybe someone who is a little more articulate than myself should write a letter to the Judge and ask him about Motorola’s conduct.


READ THE ABOVE ORDER A FEW TIMES FOR IT TO REALLY SINK IN. THE JUDGE DID NOT ORDER THAT ALL OF DELUCAS RADIOS BE RETURNED TO MOTOROLA.

I think that they (Motorola) took it upon themselves to make it appear that that’s what the Judge ordered.

[Cam]

Now the question is, who is “his Officers, directors and all those persons or entities acting in active concert or participation with him.”

More then likely aren't any. What it is say is anyone who worked for or with him then or now.

[Mrbmw99]

This is gettin juicy! I can't wait to see what the outcome will be of this whole thing... In a way I am kind of glad I don't have a Nick radio. I mean, I wasn't really into the radio thing when he was around AFAIK. I'm gonna follow this one.. -BW

[SVT]

So needless to say; Nick radios have as many problems as they cause???

So the sum of the genuine motorola parts are not equal to the whole radio??? Anybody want to disprove that.

I also find it interesting that motorola allowed him to buy all these parts, if someone was buying so many parts that for some freak reason were proportional to the amount needed to build several radios, wouldn't there be a BIG red flag there. I think Circle-M had a brain fart, or one of thier salespersons was greedy and didn't care. Either way, in this case, it is not the end users fault. I think motorola should be more worried about how this happened versus going after the end user.

And havn't they seen the Xerox commercial....what a waste of paper sending all of those letters....If we supply the government with tax dollars and they barter them to motorola, can't we ask for our tax dollars back??? The serial numbers were non-sequencial when they were issued to motorola and therefore might be counterfiet or the check might cut somebodys finger which could be a risk for thier employees...we should get them back....I am just trying to see the world past the bat's eyes....

[jwood]

Motorola has taken a page from the DIRECTV play book.

Shotgun sue everyone you think bought a programmer and see who bites and sends in the money. Those you obtain a little evidence on, like a delivery receipt, go after with a vengeance, knowing won't win, but you will cause the defendant to spend thousands of $$$ defending themselves. The whole game is to make it so unprofitable nobody will deal in used radios.

It isn't about winning, it is about fear and intimidation, to stop people from doing it just because they don't want to go through the court battles and $$$ to defend the position.

If they pursue it long and hard some court somewhere will give them a victory then watch out !!! Every Ex-Motorola radio will be a target, you watch, just like Directv did !!

In my opinion this is the end of eBay and Motorola radios, I don't think I would purchase from them now, just like buying DTV stuff, no way ... eBay has gone to shi* and will pay dearly for the close ties to big corporations over their customers.

Ciao ...

[OX]

Wasn't this the same moron who was having Ebay auctions cancelled because of radios that were for sale? Something like you can't use a MTX838 within the cont US because it's a Canadian approved radio and not type accepted in the US?

So who here works at Motorola and can have corporate open an investigation into Mr. Harrington? Is he overstepping his boundaries? Is he condcuting "offical" (loosely used here) Motorola business in lines with published practices? Seems to me, if you were to be contacted by Motorola for the purposes of returning "unsafe" equipment, you would have a letter from Motorola's lawyers or a factory recall.

Personally, it sounds like Mr. Harrington isn't getting any so QUICK, SEND HIM A HOOKER!

[Radiogeek97]

this may be a little off topic but:

for those of us who sent Nick money and never got crap, myself I am out 925.00$ I have filed complaints with the FBI, Postal inspectors, better business bureau ect. Now i am fairly certain that Nick probaply does not have a pot to P&^s in after paying his legal fees, but incase there is a chance he still has defrauded many of us. Now that there is a legal case on file Nicks adress and "real information" are known. How many of us are there that sent money but never got any product,. And His argument that the feds took the radio he was going to send us so tough crap I dont owe you anything is legally laughable. Those of us who sent him money were not under the assumption that we were buying stolen goods, if that were the case we would be guilty and definitely out of luck. We sent money for a product that was represented as "legal not stolen ect. so there is a responsibility to make restitution.
if anybody interested in getting together and putting the legal boots to nick please PM me. When i called the FBI they could not get involved because they have a threashold of i think 3grand before they will touch the case, the special agent refered me to the internet fraud complaint center and the postal inspectors instead. I am sure that there are enough people out there to allow the FBI to get involved now.

[alex]

this may be a little off topic but:

for those of us who sent Nick money and never got crap, myself I am out 925.00$ I have filed complaints with the FBI, Postal inspectors, better business bureau ect. Now i am fairly certain that Nick probaply does not have a pot to P&^s in after paying his legal fees, but incase there is a chance he still has defrauded many of us. Now that there is a legal case on file Nicks adress and "real information" are known. How many of us are there that sent money but never got any product,. And His argument that the feds took the radio he was going to send us so tough crap I dont owe you anything is legally laughable. Those of us who sent him money were not under the assumption that we were buying stolen goods, if that were the case we would be guilty and definitely out of luck. We sent money for a product that was represented as "legal not stolen ect. so there is a responsibility to make restitution.
if anybody interested in getting together and putting the legal boots to nick please PM me. When i called the FBI they could not get involved because they have a threashold of i think 3grand before they will touch the case, the special agent refered me to the internet fraud complaint center and the postal inspectors instead. I am sure that there are enough people out there to allow the FBI to get involved now.

The answer to this is class action suit.

The problem: Nick probably doesn't have enough money to make it worthwhile. It would take more money and time to do this to the point where it probably would not be worth a lawyer's time. In the end, he should pay, not us pay to get him.

-Alex

[Radiogeek97]

alex

I agree whole heartidly, but i am willing to put in some time and use some contacts I have to at least try to put him in jail for fraud and give him a felony record. I know that getting our money back may not happen but if enough of us were to exchange names circumstances ect, i will call the special agent out of the FBI's boston office that helped me and supply him with the information needed (ie get over their threashold of 3 grand) and try to get them involved to help us. I would be willing to put in some time if the folks that got burned like me would PM me so we can start to swap facts.


take care

[Bob]

The answer to this is class action suit.

The question is: did he defraud enough people to qualify for a class-action suit? I would guess that the number of people that would actually join the suit is so low that the case could not be certified as 'class-action'

And by 'defraud' ,I mean people sending him money and not receiving merchandise or a refund.

[CTAMontrose]

problems i see with a class action suit:

A. Who usually ends up with the majority of the settlement money?

Attorneys

and

B. You cant get blood from a turnip.

while i believe we would be victorious against nick, what would you really win or recover??

[Cowthief]

Hello.

A class action suit would cost well over $100,000 just to get going.
The thing would need to get certified as a class action suit.
That alone is usually a months worth of work for the entire office staff, everybody one one case.
If experts need to be called in just the retainer is going to be more expensive then any motorola radio.
Remember, my little bump in the road with /\/\ cost $$$.
It was cheaper in the end to simply give up on Motorola radios.
The only thing /\/\ I mess with is limited to the agreement.
I was given a set of XTS5000s as a goodwill gesture right before the Houston super bowl.
I sent them back as this was not the military model.
Anybody who knows me knows I carry the Thales radio now.

[CTAMontrose]

Hello.

Anybody who knows me knows I carry the Thales radio now.

someone knows you?

sorry OT

[/fin]

[RadioSouth]

Like Alex points out a suit costs quite a bit. Assuming your payment was either mailed in or made in the form of a US Postal M.O. BEST approach is for someone to file a complaint with the US Postal Inspectors (you can download a complaint form from their website). If someone wants to volunteer as a coordinator have everyone send their filled out complaints
to that person and send them all in together. This way they can immediately see the magnitude of the problem.
If you don't like this approach for those in the area of the person your want to bring action against small claims courts cost very little and require no representation. I went this route a few years back on a landlord dispute, he didn't show up in court, the judge ruled in my favor. I then took the judgement to the Sheriffs civil division, he didn't answer their request for payment so the sheriff showed up at his house with a towtruck, hooked his car up and then rang the bell demanding payment. He forked it over and for my approx $50. of outlay I got back the full $1800. I was owed.

[alex]

Well, I think there are two issue here:

There are people who paid for radios, got those radios, and then subsequently got a letter from Motorola.

The second set of people, paid, but never saw a piece of equipment.

There's one big unknown throughout this whole discussion, and that is how Nick got the parts.

Someone's lawyer here is correct: They can not take back something that you buaght for someone just because. However, if that lawyer does *NOT* know the full story, then they would be inclined to comment that if the parts infact *might* have been stolen, your lawyers advice would probably then be to return the property.

There is a third question here - when the radios were purchased, assembled, and then sold, at that time, was the parts aquired in good standing, and then later discovered that they were not purchased?

I think in the end, this is a question of title of property. IF nick purchased the parts with good titile, sold the parts with a good titile, and you purchased these for FAIR MARKET VALUE (read at public auction), then there probably isn't a problem. The problem will be prooving the title at the time that Nick purchased the equipment, and how much information Motorola gives up with respect to how they did their internal investigation.

This of course, didn't happen for a month. This happened for 3 years. Nick more than controlled the fair market value of these radios.

-Alex

[Splat]

One has to think that if anything was indeed stolen Nick would either (A) be incarcerated for it, (B) paid much money to M to keep his ass outta jail after the case ended, (C) both. I think the fear and intimidation method is what M is going for. Based upon what I've read here so far these letters don't mention anything about stolen radios or parts, do they?

[xmo]

alex, alex, alex

If Motorola felt they could claim the radios were 'stolen property' they would have said so in the letter. They would have initiated criminal proceedings against Mr. DeLuca.

Further - Motorola replacement parts are not serialized. Take a few radios apart, take a few parts off the shelf at the local MSS, take a few Nick radios apart.

Put all those parts in a big bag, shake them up, dump them out. Challenge any expert witness to identify which are which. Can't be done. Period.

Stolen property claims REQUIRE the ability to prove ownership.

Can't be done here.

Sleep easy.

[RadioSouth]

Haven't seen any allegation of theft of these parts, that would be incumbent on the property owner to establish this which doesn't sound like they have. Copyright infringment ? Maybe. IP violation for having a controller flashed by other than the manufacturer? Maybe.
(Looks like I crossed posted with XMO, great minds think alike!)

[alex]

One has to think that if anything was indeed stolen Nick would either (A) be incarcerated for it, (B) paid much money to M to keep his ass outta jail after the case ended, (C) both. I think the fear and intimidation method is what M is going for. Based upon what I've read here so far these letters don't mention anything about stolen radios or parts, do they?

There could be a couple of possibilities. If this was being persued on a federal level (since interstate commerce took place), one of two things could have happened. A) They let motorola go after him civaly, and thought that would ring him through enough B) Motorola didn't make a good enough case, or they did, but managed to simply get an injunction out of it.

I'm sure letter C is what motorola is going for, but I also detect a certain level of sincearity in the note. Again, this letter WAS NOT from a lawyer - but was from a director of a department, with a nice request.

Either way - all of the cards are NOT out on the table.

In order to proove that you are entitled to possess the radio, you need proof of title, and the ability to proove that you have good title after you get that.

-Alex

[alex]

Yeah, i cross posted as well. XMO has a great point about a parts bag...

-Alex

[nitornemo]

I sold mine for a $1 to some stranger at a rest stop. He had Alaskan license plates. I guess I'm free!

I know this SAME GUY!!!
He traded me his wife for the radio......

Do I send his wife to Motorola in place of the radio?

[Radiogeek97]

I would be willing to gather (from other members) up and send in any information to the authorities. If those folks that got ripped off by nick PM me we can make arrangements and i will try to put together the information and forward it "together" as one big case this way here the feds may want to help.

[Splat]

Anyone send in a radio yet? I don't own a Nick radio but am pretty curious about the whole thing.

[xmo]

Let me revise that 'shake up the bag' statement a little.

Small motorola parts e.g. clips, shields, knobs, etc. have no unique markings whatsoever.

Larger items such as housings, castings, displays, keypads will have code dated markings [similar to that sort of number on a battery - used for warranty purposes] that can identify a part to a particular batch of parts.

Circuit boards may have a part number stamped on them along with a code date - or they may have a paper sticker attached which has the part number, code date, a bar code and an ID number such as CAxxxxxxx

The last number is probably unique and it could be used to track exchange parts for example. Hence, IF you had a record of those numbers before you put the parts 'in the bag' - when you dumped them out - you could identify those items.

Now, there's nothing to say that the parts contained in any particular radio assembled by Mr. DeLuca actually have any such paper stickers with any such identifying numbers on them....

[Hartley]

Wow! this is an amazing thread, as much for it's civility as for it's length..

It seems to me that the status of Motorola's lawsuit against Mr. DeLuca is not at issue here - nothing in it really applies to the letter they've sent out (though Motorola certainly referred to it in a threatening manner, which would seem more than a little disengenuous). What seems to be happening is that they are threatening FURTHER action against those who purchased from Mr. DeLuca.

It looks to me like Motorola is making two assertions in their letter:

1) That the radios sold by "Nick" are "counterfeit" and as such, "illegal".

2) That Motorola has a right to demand that these "counterfeit and illegal" radios should be returned to them.

The first assertion would seem to be at least somewhat correct - just like that $10 "Rolex" you can buy on many streetcorners of NY, having a "Nick" XTS with Motorola's brand on the front does indeed constitute a "counterfeit" product. But what makes it "illegal"? Certainly it is illegal to sell such a radio - which the court case against Mr. DeLuca seems to have been about - but is it illegal to possess or use such a product? Motorola makes the assertion that the FCC would not permit it to be used, as the original type-certification is not valid (since Motorola didn't "manufacture" it) - and this seems like it might be true - even if it is technically indefensible. While we all know it is unlikely to happen, if one of those "band-changed Sabers" or "out-of-band Spectras" that some of us have were to fall under scrutiny, it seems likely that Motorola would disavow the applicability of the original type certification for them. But that doesn't mean that the FCC is concerned enough to actually do something about these radios, nor does it mean that Motorola has the right to demand them be sent in.

The second assertion seems much more muddy to me. What right does Motorola have to demand the radio be returned to THEM? I doubt that Rolex demands all of the counterfeits of it's products be returned to it, nor do any of the other manufacturers who are concerned with such activity - such counterfeit products are commonly seized by law enforcement and routinely destroyed (after their evidence value is gone). What would be valid for Motorola to do is to have Law Enforcement sieze these radios and assure their destruction - but somehow I think that LE has more important things to do these days., expecially considering that no more of them are likely to be sold by Mr. DeLuca and the numbers are so limited.

What Motorola is REALLY trying to do, IMHO, is take a pre-emptive strike at the NEXT "Nick" by frightening their potential customer base. Certainly many of us would be more circumspect in acquiring such a "toy" if we thought we might get in legal trouble over it or lose it. (No, I didn't buy a "Nick" radio, tho I thought about it.

So the question is... should Motorola's rather "bold" attempt to blackmail folks into sending a "dubious" product to them be:
a) ignored (including the "I sold it to the guy from Alaska" approach)?
b) supported (by returning all those nasty radios so Motorola can remove the blight)?
c) fought (presumably by encouraging folks to lambaste them publically for their cheek)?

I'd really like to know more about the REAL legal angles (not the fantasy legal ones - sorry) before I decided - but I REALLY don't like b)! Unfortunately, anyone confronting this situation in an "official" capacity or who has a delicate (and necessary) relationship with Motorola may be forced to use it.


My $.02...

Hartley

p.s. micro-note - at one time, Motorola was engraving serial numbers into the edge of the main board - have they stopped this?
HJ

[xmo]

Yes, this certainly has been an interesting discussion - and has stayed civil.

Of course, the BIG question is why would Motorola threaten and intimidate so many people knowing full well they are victims rather than participants in this affair. It's called a fishing expedition. Here's one theory.

A couple of years back people were questioning who was this Nick person. It was suggested that Nick and/or one or more of his entities were performing contract repair of Motorola radios for US government agencies.

That is not farfetched. You might thing that entities such as the USAF, etc. would simply contract with Motorola for service. At one time they did just that. Then along came 'Small Business Set-aside'. Motorola lost those contracts to small businesses.

If, in fact, Nick was such a service provider, that would explain his access to Motorola parts - at favorable prices - in volume - without raising suspicions.

Eventually Motorola realized that at least some of the radios that Nick was selling were parts built - they bought some to verify that fact.

BUT - VERY BIG BUT!

IF Nick was already in the radio business buying, selling, servicing and handling many REAL Motorola radios - and assuming he didn't keep precise records [a reasonable supposition] how is it possible to state in a court of law that the radios he sold on ebay were ALL parts built - or that some of them were originally manufactured by Motorola, refurbished, repaired, etc.??

How is it possible????

Intimidate the purchasers into sending them in - thus providing Motorola with sufficient evidence to initiate further proceedings against Mr. DeLuca - proceedings factually based on some large number of radios that the purchasers have VOLUNTARILY returned as counterfit. Proceedings with the objective of financial recovery.

DO NOT HELP THEM!

They could have asked nicely and [thanks to all those that Nick screwed] they would have received tremendous support from the purchasers of these radios.

No light on back there....

[allplowedout]

I urge everyone to read this twice, seems to make sense......

Honestly, forget the motorola boogey man theory, etc...
Remember people, they've (motorola that is) Depo'd many of these radios. That I can ASSURE you.

Returning any Nick radios will only result in your loss of a radio.
Public Safety radio has enough of it's own issues and interference sources... Nextel, idiots with t band sabers asking central for a portable check, and the list goes on and on.

Here's what I think we've all got to understand.

Intimidate the purchasers into sending them in - thus providing Motorola with sufficient evidence to initiate further proceedings against Mr. DeLuca - proceedings factually based on some large number of radios that the purchasers have VOLUNTARILY returned as counterfit. Proceedings with the objective of financial recovery.

[clavo]

If I were one of you, I'd go the step further and get the transcripts from nick's court case. It would give you perspective. For him to 'get off' the way he did, he must have had a good argument. Don't you all want to see that argument?

-c

[mrmsf]

The big M is not after Nick. They are after anyone with software that can
program a /\/\ radio.

If you send in a radio that has any program in it /\/\ can sue you for using
software and they may do that.

For some reason /\/\ is running a mcuk.

You all need to think before you send aything or call!!

[allplowedout]

Take your astro radio to someone who is running a legit rss or cps release and have them read, save and re-write same cp to radio, now there is NO issue of having unlicenced software uned in your or "your friend's" radio.

Hmmmm

[xmo]

One also might consider having one's local AUTHORIZED MSS align the radio to factory specifications. Further - ask that they open and inspect the radio to determine that it is assembled in a manner consistent with Motorola's published basic and detailed service documentation.

I really don't believe that Motorola would be prepared to testify in a court of law that a radio comprised of 100% GENUINE Motorola parts cannot meet Motorola's published operating specifications[regardless of the percentage of content that left a Motorola assembly line as a part of an originally manufactured radio vs. replacement parts]

Neither do I believe that Motorola would be prepared to testify in a court of law that its authorized MSS was not capable of making that inspection and alignment.

[RRrobby]

Although I am a new member, I have been following this for some time now. There is a court case in Grand Rapids, Michigan currently going on. The State AG has charged four people with various felonies (including receiving stolen property) for trying to put four of these radios on our state 800MHZ system. For more info, go to http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl? ... nce=371750 for the court case information. The state AG website has the general info on the case. The link is http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164 ... 12,00.html. As of right now, there is a lot of hemming and hawing about this, but the outcome may prove interesting. I think that this sheds a little different light on this matter.

[xmo]

These cases and similar ones in the Atlanta area highlight the importance of a point we keep hammering on this board.

IF YOU WANT TO PUT A RADIO ON A PUBLIC SAFETY SYSTEM - GET AUTHORIZATION FROM THE SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR.

Don't go out a buy a radio off ebay or elsewhere - and pirate some software or get a buddy to do the programming so you can put it on someone's system - EVEN JUST TO LISTEN.

OH - and don't add any talkgroups or feaures to your radio that aren't in the list provided by the System Administrator.

Don't put yourself at risk - BUY A SCANNER.

[FAC911]

Has anybody called motorola yet? if so any info as to whats go with this

[Johnny Galaga]

I want to thank everyone who has replied to this long but important thread..

[10-95]

I want to thank everyone who has replied to this long but important thread. When I stared this topic, I knew it was gonna be a long one. There is an underlying overtone to this whole discussion in my opinion, so I'll just come right out and say it. SOFTWARE and SYSTEM KEYS, plain and simple. If Motorola does pursure further legal action, the question is will they simply go for the possession of all the 'Nick' radios outthere, or will they go after 'Nick' radio users for "other" things?

Based on what I've read this far, I've decided to keep the radio for now and do nothing. The letter that Motorola sent says I have until March 1 to respond to their letter. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I beleive the letter was a scare tactic dreamed up by some newbie in the legal department. As for going after all the owners of Nick radios, why would they bother??? They'd be going after the small fish. Nick is the big fish and it's he they should be going after. As for how Nick obtained the parts to build all the radios, who knows, if he did buy all the parts directly from Motorola there should have been some kind of red flag raised in their computer system! I mean a guy who is ordering 50 vocons or 50 RF decks over a period of time who has no affiliation with an MSSS should peak someone's interest, unless they were just happy to take his money at the time and then caught on later. As for going after us for something else ,I ask how?? Last time I checked Motorola was not a Law enforcement agency, and how are they going to get a Law enforcemnet agency to get a search warrant for your house?? They better have something really good to tell the feds or whoever they think they'll put on you a##! the last time I checked I thought a law enforcement agency needed to show probable cause for a search warrant. I can see it now, hey this guy has some radios with no tags in his house, we can't say where they came from but you need to bust down his door! Ain't gonna happen! Please , don't make the Motorola Boogie man think he has any powers to do this because he just can't! And I really do hope no one is out there losing sleep over this.

[W4YJQ]

I can see it now, hey this guy has some radios with no tags in his house, we can't say where they came from but you need to bust down his door! Ain't gonna happen! Please , don't make the Motorola Boogie man think he has any powers to do this because he just can't! And I really do hope no one is out there losing sleep over this.

Loose sleep, well who knows! Reading this thread I have to say one thing, I'll be in good company. We'll have a lot of things to talk about.

This S@&T makes me shake my head turn and walk away!!!!