Kenwood/Icom Joint Digital Radio Venture

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:21 pm

There have been a number of recent articles on the internet about Kenwood and Icom having entered into a joint venture agreement to develop a new digital radio standard. Apparently, it will use the best of the P25 and D-STAR worlds. Just what we need---another competing standard to ensure interoperability.

If you thought this all ended with VHS killing Beta, guess again. SONY is going for Blue Ray lasers to support HD on DVD, while a bunch of other big players have aligned behind a completely incompatible standard to support HD on DVD. Here we go again!

Here is a piece of the story, but there are tons of stuff on the internet about this.

On February 25, Kenwood announced the establishment of a technical alliance with Icom Inc. to engage in joint research and development for wide-ranging digital wireless radio system. In the future, Kenwood will further accelerate digitalization of commercial wireless radio system by leveraging the technical alliance with Icom to ensure the second greatest presence in the commercial wireless radio equipment market worldwide.

larry

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:37 pm

Probably because they're so sour about how much they have to pay in royalties for IMBE.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:10 pm

Noted below are two URL's that include PDF's discussing details of the Icom/Kenwood joint venture technical arrangement for the development of a new digital radio standard. Looks like they reciprically exchanged about 10 million dollars worth of each other's outstanding shares to fund this alliance.

http://www.kenwood.com/i/news/press_usa_20050025_2.pdf

http://www.kenwood.com/i/news/press_usa_20050025_1.pdf

larry

Post by **batdude** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:40 pm

i've said it before and i'll say it again

there needs to be legislation preventing any public funds being spent on non-interoperable communications systems.

not P25?

you buy it?

fine - you get no taxpayer money to help.... including grants!

doug

mastr · Post by **mastr** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:02 pm

there needs to be legislation preventing any public funds being spent on non-interoperable communications systems.

Analog FM is already interoperable. P25 and "interoperability" are not related in any way except Motorola's use of the two terms in a sales pitch.....

Post by **batdude** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:12 pm

if i was talking analog in the astro forum i would have said so.

the push (regardless of your opinion) is towards digital, which eventually will allow more channels in a given slice of spectrum.

pro voice or p25 - i don't care - what i do care is that p25 is the modulation that is approved by Apco as a STANDARD.

you don't want to use the standard? fine...just don't ask for federal funding! (i hope this comes to bite PA and FL in the ass too)

doug

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:50 pm

A mere modulation scheme doesn't ensure "interoperability". so long as PROPRIETARY CLOSED systems are in place, interoperability will continue to be limited only to those who buy into such proprietary networks.

If interoperability is the goal, we must think about bridging networks not making everyone go out and buy expensive radios that are locked onto a single vendor's system.

Post by **batdude** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:01 pm

i couldn't agree with you more.

nothing like showing up to a gunfight and finding out your provoice LPE radio can't key up your local 3600bps astro smartzone system.....

insert motobridge -or- VIDA? VODA? whatever corny name MA/COM has for their IP based PSAP interconnection stuff

now i'll do it.

there's always analog mutual aid! (gag)

doug

Radiogeek97 · Post by **Radiogeek97** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:36 am

"analog mutual aid" That is near treason you better watch out apco will revoke your membership

. but but but what about the terrorists "we need digital to combat the terrorists!

I guess the old expression K.I.S.S no longer applys to public saftey administrators, but I will tell you what it still applies to end users all we need is an easy to use product wether it be an ht1000 or an xts a ford or a chevy just give us easy to use leave "star wars" to the folks at NORAD.

chuckhab · Post by **chuckhab** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:24 am

Only cause I am naive and have heard the term, how would a Raytheon ACU 1000 fit into this equation? Doesn't it work to combine multiple formats and frequency ranges to allow interoperability?

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:59 am

The ACU1000 is basically a RICK on steroids, big time. It is a superbly complex and competent device that permits one radio, upon receiving a signal on one of its channels, to key up one or more other radios and transmit the received audio over the other radios' channels -- you can think of it as a patch. The ACU1000 is superb for longer term incidents when it is mounted in a mobile command post and supervised by an operator who knows what he is doing. It is less useful for ad hoc incidents that may be over by the time the MCP gets to the scene.

ai4ui · Post by **ai4ui** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:58 pm

>insert motobridge -or- VIDA? VODA? whatever corny name MA/COM has >for their IP based PSAP interconnection stuff

We have motobridge here in Florida. Great concept except...

Where I work we have an Astro Trunked system, the next county over, is on conventional VHF. Whenever we mutual aid over there, they turn on the motobrige so we can talk to each other. That works okay unless we go far enough over (don't have to go very far, maybe five or six miles) that we can't reach our TRS. Now we can't talk to anybody. So much for the motobrige, it's useless if you can't reach your home system.

RG

Post by **wavetar** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 am

kf4pxz wrote: So much for the motobrige, it's useless if you can't reach your home system.

RG

That's a limitation of any patching system. Motobridge or any other patch would be more useful in a state-wide SmartZone Omnilink system where the VHF town PD/FD could be patched to the departments on the TRS. You're always in coverage then.

Todd

Astro Spectra · Post by **Astro Spectra** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:31 pm

IMBE too expensive for Icom/Kenwood?

Doubt it ... little old Tait in Noo Zealand has already got working APCO product. I saw it on display at the APCO International Annual Conference and Expo in Montreal. You could see, touch it and talk on it. Low delay on the audio and IP for the base. Looked very nice.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:09 am

Kenwood is already selling VHF & 800 P25 radios with DES-OFB and AES

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:42 pm

Tait P25 portable radio pictures etc.

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/ea ... 'CASTPAB1A'

Mobile:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/ea ... 'CASTMAH7F'

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:35 pm

Interesting radio, but it does not appear to be P25 compatible as it is not using the current P25 Phase I modulation scheme, which requires FDMA. Phase II will use TDMA modulation.

I also don't know what vocoder they are using, but even if it is IMBE (which I doubt), their modulation scheme is incompatible with Phase I and/or Phase II P25.

This sounds somewhat akin to what the recently announced Icom/Kenwood technical consortium is looking at. A new and proprietary digital voice scheme that is not compatible with P25. They have said they plan to use the best of D-STAR and P25. Interesting, but not P25 compatible.

Beta versus VHS, blue ray laser versus HD DVD, and now P25 versus proprietary digital voice. Take your chances with whomever's vocoder, and pick a modulation scheme du jour. You’d think they would learn by experience, but SONY is pushing its blue ray laser against other competing standards, so I guess history often does repeat itself.

Motorola must be laughing all the way to its gigantic bank. If these turkeys are so stupid to invent new proprietary standards on a weekly basis, by the time they sell a few of these lemons, Motorola will have garnered all of the Billions of $'s of Homeland Security funding dollars for interoperable P25 compliant systems. Meantime, as Motorola continues to count its Billions of $'s on P25 sales to The Fed Agencies, and the various municipalities funded by DHS, these other turkeys will still be playing with competing standards, as they sell 2 or 3 radios.

I saw an article the other day that Icom may sell its yet to be available P25 portable for about $1,200 street price ($1,700 list). So what?! Motorola is now selling its XTS 1500 at a sub $1,000 price point (I believe it is listing at roughly $1,200). Yeah, like I'm going to spend a bunch more dollars for a rice rocket, as opposed to a brand spanking new Motorola P25 proven radio for LESS money! I guess the one good thing about this pseudo competition is that it will tend to keep the Motorola prices from rising, which (as Martha would say) is a good thing. Too bad, though, as I had hoped Kenwood and/or Icom would introduce a truely P25 compatible radio in the $500 range. Ain't gunna happen, folks. Darn!!

Got to admit that the Motorola Marketing Dept is nothing short of BRILLIANT! Keep it simple, and keep selling a bazillion high tier P25 radios at $5,700 a pop. Meanwhile, these other losers try to invent new proprietary standards that are incompatible with P25. Either that, or they introduce P25 radios extremely late in the game (e.g., 14 years after Motorola introduced its first P25 radios) that are priced higher than Motorola P25 radios. Gotta' love that Motorola. Restores my faith in Capitalism. KISS, and a guy can make a TON of $!!

HooYaah, and Kudos to Motorola!

larry

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:09 pm

Which radio didn't appear to be P25 compliant?

Icom is selling its P25 portable right now.

Icom's street prices, from Action Communications:

256 channels/16 zones with no keypad: $1,668.75 ($2225.00 list).
With keypad: $1,743.75 ($2325.00 list)

http://www.actioncommunications.com/mer ... ge_DIGITAL

How much does Motorola sell a basic XTS3000 II or III for? It's rather pointless to compare a 16 channel radio with no keypad or display with one that does 256 channels.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:04 am

The Tait radios appear to not be P25 compliant, for the reasons I detailed in my previous post.

Neither Icom nor Kenwood have a P25 repeater, and I understand that they have no plans to develop a P25 repeater.

Neither Icom nor Kenwood have a P25 radio that supports DES and/or AES, thus making them useless for responding to typical 3 and 4 digit Fed Agency bid proposals. Even the USFS is requiring DES-OFB and/or AES for contract bids involving P25 support.

My main point regarding price competition is that you can buy a brand new Motorola P25 non-encrypted radio with 16 channels for $900. I had hoped that the rice rocket boys could compete on the low end scale of P25, especially since this has been their forte in the old analog FM world.

Looks like that ain't gunna happen, which is too bad.

I'm not sure how many P25 users that have neither current need, nor future upgrade requirement for, DES-OFB and/or AES encryption require more than 16 channels. Most of these kinds of users are for non critical 2-Way applications, such as Utilities, and the like, as opposed to Fed Agency needs that are critical and involve DES-OFB and/or AES. Therefore, offering a rice rocket P25 radio for double to triple the price of the XTS-1500 (neither one of them supporting DES-OFB nor AES) definitely does not strike me as a "good deal." Again, these rice rocket boys have typically played in the low end sand box, with low end prices to match. Now they want double to triple the price of the XTS-1500, yet there is still no encryption. Too little and too late (14 years late, at that). Oh, well, Motorola will just have to keep breaking its back as it carries its Billions of $'s of P25 revenue to their humongous bank!

larry

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:58 pm

[Kenwood is already selling VHF & 800 P25 radios with DES-OFB and AES]

Seems the FEDS have been duped by Kenwood then, they seem to like the radio alot with the DES-OFB and AES schemes.

Make sure you have your stuff streight.[/quote]

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:01 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:The Tait radios appear to not be P25 compliant, for the reasons I detailed in my previous post.

They'll be in some very, very serious trouble trouble when their radios hit the market, then, if that's the case. They've been touting them as being P25 compliant for many months now at conferences like the APCO conference in Montreal and APCO-ANZ in Melbourne (Australia), where they've been showing them off.

I seriously doubt they're silly enough to do that.

What have you seen to suggest that their gear ain't P25?

Neither Icom nor Kenwood have a P25 repeater, and I understand that they have no plans to develop a P25 repeater.

Neither Icom nor Kenwood have a P25 radio that supports DES and/or AES, thus making them useless for responding to typical 3 and 4 digit Fed Agency bid proposals. Even the USFS is requiring DES-OFB and/or AES for contract bids involving P25 support.

My main point regarding price competition is that you can buy a brand new Motorola P25 non-encrypted radio with 16 channels for $900. I had hoped that the rice rocket boys could compete on the low end scale of P25, especially since this has been their forte in the old analog FM world.

If you're not after encryption or trunking, they're competing above that level.

Looks like that ain't gunna happen, which is too bad.

I'm not sure how many P25 users that have neither current need, nor future upgrade requirement for, DES-OFB and/or AES encryption require more than 16 channels.

There are lots of large organisations other than police etc on conventional systems (not necessarily in the USA), who don't need encryption, who couldn't ever hope to get away with only having a 16 mode radio.

Most of these kinds of users are for non critical 2-Way applications, such as Utilities, and the like, as opposed to Fed Agency needs that are critical and involve DES-OFB and/or AES.

There are lots of utilities who operate over large areas, with large radio systems (meaning lots of channels).

Therefore, offering a rice rocket P25 radio for double to triple the price of the XTS-1500 (neither one of them supporting DES-OFB nor AES)
definitely does not strike me as a "good deal."

Even though the "rice rocket" in question offers 16 times the channel capacity, zones, full keypad and display, waterproof housing...

Again, these rice rocket boys have typically played in the low end sand box, with low end prices to match. Now they want double to triple the price of the XTS-1500,

Eh? Icom's radios aren't $2700 list, let alone street price.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:56 pm

$2,300 is close enough to triple the price of an XTS-1500 for my money, given the price I can get an XTS 1500 for (less than the standard discount price of $900).

What I said regarding the lack of encryption is that I doubt very many agencies that actually need more than 16 channels in a P25 radio will have no current, NOR FUTURE UPGRADE PLANS, for DES-OFB or AES. I can tell you that the 3 and 4 digit Feds REQUIRE this! Most large PDs that invest in P25 radios will tell you that future plans will likely require such encryption, especially because interoperability with P25 Fed radios will require this. That's my point. An agency that needs 256 channels in new P25 radios is likely to see a future need for P25 encryption. it's not a matter of IF, as opposed to WHEN.

Again, please re-read my post as to why I believe Tait is not P25 compatible! I covered the reasons IN SPECIFIC DETAIL in my previous post that you seemed to not have read (vocoder and modulation scheme), and I'm not going to re-type all of that.

As to Kenwood, someone said they have a P25 radio on the market with both DES-OFB and AES. Would you please post a URL where I can actually see this spec, as well as their keyloader? I'd really appreciate it.

larry

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:29 pm

Again, please re-read my post as to why I believe Tait is not P25 compatible! I covered the reasons IN SPECIFIC DETAIL in my previous post that you seemed to not have read (vocoder and modulation scheme), and I'm not going to re-type all of that.

I DID read it, so in my reply, I asked where you saw that information so I could look into it further myself.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:54 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:$2,300 is close enough to triple the price of an XTS-1500 for my money, given the price I can get an XTS 1500 for (less than the standard discount price of $900).

What I said regarding the lack of encryption is that I doubt very many agencies that actually need more than 16 channels in a P25 radio will have no current, NOR FUTURE UPGRADE PLANS, for DES-OFB or AES. I can tell you that the 3 and 4 digit Feds REQUIRE this! Most large PDs that invest in P25 radios will tell you that future plans will likely require such encryption, especially because interoperability with P25 Fed radios will require this. That's my point. An agency that needs 256 channels in new P25 radios is likely to see a future need for P25 encryption. it's not a matter of IF, as opposed to WHEN.

Again, please re-read my post as to why I believe Tait is not P25 compatible! I covered the reasons IN SPECIFIC DETAIL in my previous post that you seemed to not have read (vocoder and modulation scheme), and I'm not going to re-type all of that.

As to Kenwood, someone said they have a P25 radio on the market with both DES-OFB and AES. Would you please post a URL where I can actually see this spec, as well as their keyloader? I'd really appreciate it.

larry

Ahh Larry, you're such a fanboy. You've still not told us who exactly you work for. I still wonder if you and Cowthief are a lot alike.

The radio in question is the TK-5210 (for VHF, anyawy). List price for a 136-174 with full keypad is $1,900 (that's list). Firmware option DE10 gets you multi-key OFB, AE10 multi-key OFB/AES, AR10 P25 OTAR, TR10 P25 Trunking (available 1Q06).

Keyloading can be done using a Kenwood keyloader or by purchasing a KPG-93 interface cable for your garden-variety KVL3000/3000+.

They haven't updated the site with the new model. Feel free to call your local Kenwood dealer, they should be able to give you data. My spec sheet lists a revision date of 03/08/05.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Ahh, TVSJR, looks like you and Cowthief must be roommates, or some such similar arrangement, as I see you constatnly singing his praise. Yuck, makes me ill just thinking about it...

So, this Kenwood supposed DES-OFB/AES radio needs a "garden variety" KVL-3000, huh?! Interesting way to point out, that as usual, the off-shore boys rely on Motorola when the going gets tough. That'll be the day when Kenwood has their own P25 keyloader, and/or their own P25 repeater. Don't hold your breath (but you can hold Cowthief's hand, if you like).

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:40 pm

Keyloading can be done using a Kenwood keyloader or

umm.. he did say they had their own keyloader, OR if a user already had a motorola KVL, they dont have to run out and buy a second loader for the kenwoods.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:44 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:Ahh, TVSJR, looks like you and Cowthief must be roommates, or some such similar arrangement, as I see you constatnly singing his praise. Yuck, makes me ill just thinking about it...

So, this Kenwood supposed DES-OFB/AES radio needs a "garden variety" KVL-3000, huh?! Interesting way to point out, that as usual, the off-shore boys rely on Motorola when the going gets tough. That'll be the day when Kenwood has their own P25 keyloader, and/or their own P25 repeater. Don't hold your breath (but you can hold Cowthief's hand, if you like).

Since when was comparing you to Cowthief singing his praises? If anything, it's an insult to our bovine burglar. You both talk a good game, indicate you have all this top-end equipment, but we see no pictures, nothing that you couldn't obtain from some research on the web.

As I indicated, Kenwood has their own keyloader, at least according to their spec sheets. They also offer the cable for compatibility with existing Motorola infrastructure. I've never played with the 5210, so all I know is what the sheets say.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:50 pm

grem467 wrote:
Keyloading can be done using a Kenwood keyloader or
umm.. he did say they had their own keyloader, OR if a user already had a motorola KVL, they dont have to run out and buy a second loader for the kenwoods.

No reason at all Kenwood can't make one. The P25 keyfill specs are non-proprietary.

They could even do it in software, with a cheap hardware interface to a PDA etc.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:05 pm

Is there a Kenwood part number on this keyloader?

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:57 pm

The P/N for the Keyloader is KPG95DK, it also the programming software. This is from the dealer price list. I have tested the TK5210, and I like it a LOT. I will have mine in a few weeks.

Jim.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:09 pm

The hardware AND software have the SAME part number? Hmmm...Sounds like sumsing wong, sumsing ver-rey, ver-rey wong here!

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:25 am

Nobody said the keyloader had to be a hardware device. The Thales 25's keys can certainly be loaded through software.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:25 pm

The keys can be loaded through software and also with a cable that uses the KVL3000/+ to the TK5210 radio. It can be group keyloaded. OTAR is working in BETA stage now.

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:08 pm

wow, so you dont even NEED to buy another piece of hardware, just the software.. very cool

how much is the RSS For it?

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:48 pm

The software (FPU) looks and works like CPS, so now it's priced like CPS. The list cost for the FPU KPG-95DK is $598.00! WOW!! The cable is under $100.00.

Jim.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:08 pm

Could be worse... isn't the software for one of MACOM's radios $2000 or something?

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:37 pm

I'm not a big GE/Tyco/Macom/who knows what we will be next year person. But the software program that I have for my Orion will program just about ever newer model that they have. So in the long run in may even out.

A side note on the Kenwood TK5210, orders are high, and they are on back order. It will be a few more weeks before I get mine. I do have some pictures of one of the demos we had a few weeks back if anyone want to see them. It looks good next to the XTS3000, and Kenwood will even sell you a front label!!

Jim.

cbus · Post by **cbus** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:48 pm

can somebody tell me if there is a UHF version of the new Kenwood P25 portable ??? 450-520 ??? i am only seeing VHF and 800mhz

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:23 pm

Not yet. They are working on it.

Jim.

123 · Post by **123** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:50 pm

I am a Kenwood Dealer and selling these TK-5210 radios for $1,400 each. Way below retail. Retail is $1,900 PM me to place an order. We are back ordered on this item,but are receiving a large shipment to satify everyones needs.

123 · Post by **123** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:56 pm

We will be meeting with our field rep in the next few days and I will be able to answer further questions on prices for the DES-OFB/AES boards and other questions you guys have. bare with us,these radios are just as new to us as they are to you,so we do not have all the answers yep on the bells & whistles. Stay tuned.

123 · Post by **123** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:57 pm

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:18 pm

123, if you work for a Kenwood dealer, you have should have all of this info. The encryption options are not boards, but firmware upgrades. The DES-OFB is list $550.00, the DES-OFB & AES list at $950.00. The OTAR, and P25 trunking options are not out yet.

Also keep in mind that Kenwood does not like dealers selling outside of your local territory. It's in the dealer agreement. Kenwood posted a memo about this a while back on Dealertools.

I'll post some pictures of the unit demo unit that we had in January in another topic thread in the Astro forum.

Jim.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:12 pm

123 wrote:We will be meeting with our field rep in the next few days and I will be able to answer further questions on prices for the DES-OFB/AES boards and other questions you guys have. bare with us,these radios are just as new to us as they are to you,so we do not have all the answers yep on the bells & whistles. Stay tuned.

Hmm, gigantic red flags. You're a Kenwood dealer, but you don't have access to dealertools? The full price sheets have been posted there already (and have been for a while.)

123 · Post by **123** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:15 am

As I stated before I do not sell at retail,which is why I was meeting with the rep for pricing. Therefore dealertools does not answer what my rep can. We are also NOT limited to the local area.

I will be selling DES-OFB for $425
DES-OFB/AES $850

Please PM with all questions & make all flames public

Because thats what most of you do best. All serious questions can be made in private thank you all for your support and profits.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:51 pm

Now if Kenwood could just come out with some infrastructure they would be all set. Until they do this I don't really see them getting into the P25 world in any big way. People want to buy radio SYSTEMS not piece something together and end of stuck when something goes wrong.

It looks like Larry needs new glasses, why is that everything must be said five times before he sees it?

123 · Post by **123** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:07 pm

Thats not true, alot of departments are looking for other avenues to buy at a cheaper rate. Besides, Motorola keeps pissing people & agencies off which I am sure Kenwood will profit from. Although they still have to give a "kick back" to M which sucks,but thats part of doing business.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:02 am

Why do they need to pay kickbacks to /\/\?

123 · Post by **123** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:23 am

I was refering to the "trunking" options Kenwood is releasing later this year for this radio.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:42 am

Kenwood does not have to pay M anything they are licensing the Vocoder technology like everyone else.

Kenwood/Icom Joint Digital Radio Venture

Kenwood/Icom Joint Digital Radio Venture

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