interoperable interoperability???
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interoperable interoperability???
this may be a stupid question, but are the various interoperable solutions (ie: M/A-Com, Motobridge, ACU-1000) able to talk to each other? for example, let's say pennsylvania gets a statewide M/A-Com network up and running. Then say, new jersey gets a Motobridge system online. Can NJ and PA talk to each other over IP? This may also be a concern on a smaller scale if union county gets one thing and essex county gets another, you see my concern. is there a standard for this standard?
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
You have loaded a lot of stuff into the question.
The simple answer, can System A and System B talk to one another, is yes, provided someone takes the time and spends the money to do it properly. Most likely this would not involve a simple OTA audio patch, such as the ACU-1000, but rather a true console- or controller-level patch, and most likely it would not involve an internet backhaul (if that is what you meant by "IP").
The simple answer, can System A and System B talk to one another, is yes, provided someone takes the time and spends the money to do it properly. Most likely this would not involve a simple OTA audio patch, such as the ACU-1000, but rather a true console- or controller-level patch, and most likely it would not involve an internet backhaul (if that is what you meant by "IP").
so it seems that as it stands right now, if you want to employ some sort of interoperability solution, you have to decide IN ADVANCE exactly WHO you want to be interoperable with and then ALL PARTIES have to AGREE on the TYPE OF SOLUTION and get the SAME equipment and quite possibly have it configured IN ADVANCE so that it will work together.
i'm sorry, but that's just dumb.
interoperability should be dynamic so that it can work on the fly. in a mutual aid scenario, you probably know which agencies are going to respond, but if the disaster is big enough, you might get an agency or two that wasn't on your "interoperability list".
...and what if you needed to reach out across a border and coordinate some sort of evacuation? I know that in my district, there have already been talks of using school buses from our town and the neighboring town if needed. oh wait, we need one more town to get involved, but they're not on the "list", sorry. :/
if we're all supposed to be jumping on this great interoperability bandwagon, it would be nice if we could all get on the same wagon.
ok, my A.M. rant is over. ....film at 11.
i'm sorry, but that's just dumb.
interoperability should be dynamic so that it can work on the fly. in a mutual aid scenario, you probably know which agencies are going to respond, but if the disaster is big enough, you might get an agency or two that wasn't on your "interoperability list".
...and what if you needed to reach out across a border and coordinate some sort of evacuation? I know that in my district, there have already been talks of using school buses from our town and the neighboring town if needed. oh wait, we need one more town to get involved, but they're not on the "list", sorry. :/
if we're all supposed to be jumping on this great interoperability bandwagon, it would be nice if we could all get on the same wagon.
ok, my A.M. rant is over. ....film at 11.
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
Florida's approach
In the State of Florida, we have a couple of different approaches to interoperability.
First is the MARC - Mutual Aid Radio Communications Cache. This consists of a trailer mounted radio tower, a VHF repeater, and a cache of 64 VHF portables & 10 VHF mobiles. There are 8 of these located throught the state. For a situation requiring interoperable communications, or when the local infrastructure is not available, bring out one of the MARCs, set up the tower and issue radios. These have been used several times now on large brush fires, public events, and after the hurricanes that we have had. MARC is managed by the Florida Fire Chiefs Association.
Then we have the EDICS trailers - Emergency Deployable Interoperable Communications System. There are several of EDICS trailers - not exactly sure how many, I'm not involved in that project, because it's an LEA thing. These contain the JPS interoperability equipment that patch channels together by radio.
Next we have the Motobridge, which is an IP based console patch. Patches are inititated by the dispatcher with a mouse click. Eight stations can be connected together and there can be 1024 simultaneous patches at any one time. The IP system is a private WAN owned by the state - SUNCOM IP network and is not a part of the public internet.
And there is the SLERS system - Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System - Ma/Com 800 MHz EDACS. At each SLERS site there is (or will be) a NPSPAC 800 MHz conventional repeater and a VHF Mutual Aid Blue (154.295) base station. Combined with the Motobridge, an agency can use what they have. If you are VHF, switch to Blue, if you are 800 MHz, switch to NPSPAC. These will be patched together and patched to the local system & dispatch center.
We had a situtation recently when there was a funeral for the Fire Marshal in one of the VHF counties. The neighboring county (on 800 MHz) sent units to cover while the locals went to the funeral. The 800 MHz county swiched to NPSPAC and was able to communicate with the local disp. center and the local units. It worked well. There is almost no latency with the Motobridge.
First is the MARC - Mutual Aid Radio Communications Cache. This consists of a trailer mounted radio tower, a VHF repeater, and a cache of 64 VHF portables & 10 VHF mobiles. There are 8 of these located throught the state. For a situation requiring interoperable communications, or when the local infrastructure is not available, bring out one of the MARCs, set up the tower and issue radios. These have been used several times now on large brush fires, public events, and after the hurricanes that we have had. MARC is managed by the Florida Fire Chiefs Association.
Then we have the EDICS trailers - Emergency Deployable Interoperable Communications System. There are several of EDICS trailers - not exactly sure how many, I'm not involved in that project, because it's an LEA thing. These contain the JPS interoperability equipment that patch channels together by radio.
Next we have the Motobridge, which is an IP based console patch. Patches are inititated by the dispatcher with a mouse click. Eight stations can be connected together and there can be 1024 simultaneous patches at any one time. The IP system is a private WAN owned by the state - SUNCOM IP network and is not a part of the public internet.
And there is the SLERS system - Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System - Ma/Com 800 MHz EDACS. At each SLERS site there is (or will be) a NPSPAC 800 MHz conventional repeater and a VHF Mutual Aid Blue (154.295) base station. Combined with the Motobridge, an agency can use what they have. If you are VHF, switch to Blue, if you are 800 MHz, switch to NPSPAC. These will be patched together and patched to the local system & dispatch center.
We had a situtation recently when there was a funeral for the Fire Marshal in one of the VHF counties. The neighboring county (on 800 MHz) sent units to cover while the locals went to the funeral. The 800 MHz county swiched to NPSPAC and was able to communicate with the local disp. center and the local units. It worked well. There is almost no latency with the Motobridge.
Re: interoperable interoperability???
One of the major problems with connecting multiple P25 systems together is the vocoders that are used in them. The vocoders are used to compress the audio stream in the radio system from the analog mode into the digital mode. They look at the audio and decide what part of the audio stream is not needed and throw it away on the encoding side. Then on the other end the vocoder tries to reconstruct the audio back into something that should sound sort of like what it did going in.
The problem arises when you daisy chain 4 of these units in series by tieing 2 systems together. Remember you have a vocoder at the originating radio, another at the receiving radio. The audio starts to become distorted as it passes through the multiple vocoders. Just how much distortion can you stand is the question. Yes you can tie 2 systems together, but just how the audio siunds will depend on which vocoders are used and how they are set up.
A couple of radios tied back to back will be no different than doing an audio patch from a console. You still have the same vocoder issue.
Jim
The problem arises when you daisy chain 4 of these units in series by tieing 2 systems together. Remember you have a vocoder at the originating radio, another at the receiving radio. The audio starts to become distorted as it passes through the multiple vocoders. Just how much distortion can you stand is the question. Yes you can tie 2 systems together, but just how the audio siunds will depend on which vocoders are used and how they are set up.
A couple of radios tied back to back will be no different than doing an audio patch from a console. You still have the same vocoder issue.
Jim
eboe wrote:this may be a stupid question, but are the various interoperable solutions (ie: M/A-Com, Motobridge, ACU-1000) able to talk to each other? for example, let's say pennsylvania gets a statewide M/A-Com network up and running. Then say, new jersey gets a Motobridge system online. Can NJ and PA talk to each other over IP? This may also be a concern on a smaller scale if union county gets one thing and essex county gets another, you see my concern. is there a standard for this standard?
Re: interoperable interoperability???
To continue the discussion on interop, PA is loaded with a
large mix of just about all bands there is. You don't really
need to interface exclusivly into just the state "OPEN SKY"
system. Rather I would be looking for a solution to connect
all the agencies around me. That more than likely will be low
band for fire and maybe police, some VHF with fire and police
and don't forget the UHF frequencies.
One of the more versatile interop units available is the RIOS
unit from Sytech Corp. Their unit has universal interface
ports. Any port can be used for any type of connection. It
can be a radio, telephone, sat phone, Nextel PTT, or what
ever. Their ports are software controlled. The other units
on the market require you to purchase modules that are
limited to just the type of connection you need. If a module
goes bad, your stuck. You can't just swap to another port.
Another feature of the RIOS unit is it uses a touch screen, so
you don't have to be stuck with a mouse. The Rios unit can
be used as a dispatch unit if you want to use it as such. It
has 16 ports as the basic unit. You have the ability to select
an entire network at once or just one radio channel.
There is an unlimited number of networks that you can
create with just a few pushes of the screen. You push the
talk group icon, then push the assets or radio channels or whatever for the network you want to create and then
push the talkgroup icon again. Your network is done and
working. It's just that simple.
You can link remote computers into the RIOS unit with an
IP network. What ever is going on will show up on all the computers. You can even use the IP network to intercom
between the computers and not have to rely upon a radio
or external telephone lines.
The best feature I have seen is the ability to remotely
display and change the channels on certain radios. In
other words, you cand be able to see the alpha numeric
display from the radio front panel right on your computer
screen. You can step the channels up or down. If the radios
has differeent groups or zones, you can also step those. Not
all radio models can do this, but it is a great feature to be
able to remotely have this ability.
This IP connection can be used over short or long distances.
You could have something going on in say Philadelphia and
you be located in say Atlanta. As long as you have the IP connection, you can do all this. The limiting factor is the IP
network bandwidth as to just how many different radio
networks you have running at the same time.
You can take a look at their web site at http://www.sytechcorp.com
and click on the RIOS selection at the top left of the screen.
They have a simple display of the system there.
Jim
large mix of just about all bands there is. You don't really
need to interface exclusivly into just the state "OPEN SKY"
system. Rather I would be looking for a solution to connect
all the agencies around me. That more than likely will be low
band for fire and maybe police, some VHF with fire and police
and don't forget the UHF frequencies.
One of the more versatile interop units available is the RIOS
unit from Sytech Corp. Their unit has universal interface
ports. Any port can be used for any type of connection. It
can be a radio, telephone, sat phone, Nextel PTT, or what
ever. Their ports are software controlled. The other units
on the market require you to purchase modules that are
limited to just the type of connection you need. If a module
goes bad, your stuck. You can't just swap to another port.
Another feature of the RIOS unit is it uses a touch screen, so
you don't have to be stuck with a mouse. The Rios unit can
be used as a dispatch unit if you want to use it as such. It
has 16 ports as the basic unit. You have the ability to select
an entire network at once or just one radio channel.
There is an unlimited number of networks that you can
create with just a few pushes of the screen. You push the
talk group icon, then push the assets or radio channels or whatever for the network you want to create and then
push the talkgroup icon again. Your network is done and
working. It's just that simple.
You can link remote computers into the RIOS unit with an
IP network. What ever is going on will show up on all the computers. You can even use the IP network to intercom
between the computers and not have to rely upon a radio
or external telephone lines.
The best feature I have seen is the ability to remotely
display and change the channels on certain radios. In
other words, you cand be able to see the alpha numeric
display from the radio front panel right on your computer
screen. You can step the channels up or down. If the radios
has differeent groups or zones, you can also step those. Not
all radio models can do this, but it is a great feature to be
able to remotely have this ability.
This IP connection can be used over short or long distances.
You could have something going on in say Philadelphia and
you be located in say Atlanta. As long as you have the IP connection, you can do all this. The limiting factor is the IP
network bandwidth as to just how many different radio
networks you have running at the same time.
You can take a look at their web site at http://www.sytechcorp.com
and click on the RIOS selection at the top left of the screen.
They have a simple display of the system there.
Jim
-
/\/\y 2 cents
- On Moderation
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: iPhone, Blackberry, HT220
Folks,
If anybody wants true interoperability, look to the company that spearheaded the RoiP/VoiP revolution, look at SafetyNET or SiteCAST. It is $399.00 per entire system. Less than the cost of 1 radio your system uses and you are set for life. This is to equip it to interconnect with anybody, any frequnecy band, any digital mode or trunking method, anywhere on earth. No rip off, overblown type systems that merely crossband repeat and use fear tactics to scare you into reasons you need their solution. Just honest, cost effective systems that deploy anywhere on the planet and connect with no strings attached. Check it out at http://www.criticalrf.com.
Regards,
Steve
If anybody wants true interoperability, look to the company that spearheaded the RoiP/VoiP revolution, look at SafetyNET or SiteCAST. It is $399.00 per entire system. Less than the cost of 1 radio your system uses and you are set for life. This is to equip it to interconnect with anybody, any frequnecy band, any digital mode or trunking method, anywhere on earth. No rip off, overblown type systems that merely crossband repeat and use fear tactics to scare you into reasons you need their solution. Just honest, cost effective systems that deploy anywhere on the planet and connect with no strings attached. Check it out at http://www.criticalrf.com.
Regards,
Steve
Steve, I don't know if I should pat you on the back or call it
vapor ware. In looking at the site you gave, it shows
something, but doesn't say anything. There are prices for
some of what is shown, but not the major pieces.
The address given inside one of the pages is what looks
like your home address. You don't seem to even have a
business phone number available. Just your cell number.
It wouldn't hurt to have a second phone put in to use just
for the "Critical RF, Inc." and at least give the impression
of a functioning company. That way you could have a valid
phone number for people to leave a message on an
answering machine.
On 10-07-2003 you posted a message on "forums.hostrocket.com"
looking for someone to edit a program you had for an
upcoming comercial product. You said that "you would
email them the source code and everything to evaluate".
This is not much to hang a public safety radio system
component on. If I was looking to add to my radio system,
I would expect to find better than this. At least a functioning company with contacts to be able to confirm your equipment's
ability to funtion as stated.
Don't take this as a flame or trying to give you a hard time.
Just put yourself in the position of a communication official
looking for a product. They have to stick their neck out to
purchase equipment that will work and function as advertised.
If it doesn't work, their job could be on the carpet. They would
at least be asked to justify buying equipment that has no track
record. No customer list here to get feedback from.
Give us something to work with here. You may have a fine
product, but there is a big question that is hanging there. Many
of us have started up a small company and struggled for the
first few years. Don't feel like the lone ranger here. At least
give yourself the needed support to get over the first few
years and start the ball rolling.
Have someone else look at your web site and get some constuctive feedback. Pay attention to what they say. Right
now the site is kind of hard to read in places with the color
scheme you have used. The first thing I look for is contact information on any web site.
Jim
vapor ware. In looking at the site you gave, it shows
something, but doesn't say anything. There are prices for
some of what is shown, but not the major pieces.
The address given inside one of the pages is what looks
like your home address. You don't seem to even have a
business phone number available. Just your cell number.
It wouldn't hurt to have a second phone put in to use just
for the "Critical RF, Inc." and at least give the impression
of a functioning company. That way you could have a valid
phone number for people to leave a message on an
answering machine.
On 10-07-2003 you posted a message on "forums.hostrocket.com"
looking for someone to edit a program you had for an
upcoming comercial product. You said that "you would
email them the source code and everything to evaluate".
This is not much to hang a public safety radio system
component on. If I was looking to add to my radio system,
I would expect to find better than this. At least a functioning company with contacts to be able to confirm your equipment's
ability to funtion as stated.
Don't take this as a flame or trying to give you a hard time.
Just put yourself in the position of a communication official
looking for a product. They have to stick their neck out to
purchase equipment that will work and function as advertised.
If it doesn't work, their job could be on the carpet. They would
at least be asked to justify buying equipment that has no track
record. No customer list here to get feedback from.
Give us something to work with here. You may have a fine
product, but there is a big question that is hanging there. Many
of us have started up a small company and struggled for the
first few years. Don't feel like the lone ranger here. At least
give yourself the needed support to get over the first few
years and start the ball rolling.
Have someone else look at your web site and get some constuctive feedback. Pay attention to what they say. Right
now the site is kind of hard to read in places with the color
scheme you have used. The first thing I look for is contact information on any web site.
Jim
/\/\y 2 cents wrote:Folks,
If anybody wants true interoperability, look to the company that spearheaded the RoiP/VoiP revolution, look at SafetyNET or SiteCAST. It is $399.00 per entire system.
Check it out at http://www.criticalrf.com.
Regards,
Steve
You might want to take a look at the Sytech Corp gateway unit they call RIOS SR3001. Their web site is http://www.sytechcorp.com and then select the RIOS at the top left.
This company has done some tremendous things with their gateway unit. The most eye raising thing is to be able to remotely read the alpha numeric displays of some model radios and to be able to remotely step up or down the pre programmed channels to another channel over the IP connection.
Jim
This company has done some tremendous things with their gateway unit. The most eye raising thing is to be able to remotely read the alpha numeric displays of some model radios and to be able to remotely step up or down the pre programmed channels to another channel over the IP connection.
Jim
kike wrote:Guys,
I want to interconnect three system based on Motorola Smartnet II privacy plus with GTX movil radio, I tried to use NXU-2 from JPS, but I it didn’t works. Maybe you guys can tell me what can I use or how can I use to make this.
-
/\/\y 2 cents
- On Moderation
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: iPhone, Blackberry, HT220
Kike,
You should try my product called SiteCAST. This will interconnect your (3) Motorola systems anywhere in the world. Many refrences available of people using the GTX PP mobile as a link radio into their specific talkgoup with great success. We have a customer with 900Mhz PP systems between Miami, Naples, Fla., and Boston. These I believe were using the GTX Mobile w/o a hitch. Check out our webasite at: http://www.criticalrf.com and look at the SiteCAST product line.
Regards,
Steve Calabrese
Critical RF, Inc.
(803)474-4745
http://www.criticalrf.com
You should try my product called SiteCAST. This will interconnect your (3) Motorola systems anywhere in the world. Many refrences available of people using the GTX PP mobile as a link radio into their specific talkgoup with great success. We have a customer with 900Mhz PP systems between Miami, Naples, Fla., and Boston. These I believe were using the GTX Mobile w/o a hitch. Check out our webasite at: http://www.criticalrf.com and look at the SiteCAST product line.
Regards,
Steve Calabrese
Critical RF, Inc.
(803)474-4745
http://www.criticalrf.com