RULE CHANGE FOR THIS FORUM EFFECTIVE 1/1/2006

Post by **alex** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:33 am

Due to an increasing number of threads regarding lights, sirens, lighting laws, etc, we now are going to be limiting discussion to radio based installs, and the questions/hints/tips and other advice that this forum was origionally ment for.

Lighting/Siren and other questions relating to those topics can only come secondary to issues with radio equipment. A good example of this would be:

- I'm trying to hook up my siren to use the Radio Rebroadcast/PA feature, how do I do that?

- I'm trying to run appropriate wiring for x, y, z, and I would like advice on how to properly wire it (x,y, or z should probably include a radio...)

- I'm experiencing noise when transmitting that is coming from a strobe supply, etc.

Threads I think are inappropriate for this forum:

1) You start your thread title/subject with OT: This is a clear sign that you should NOT be posting this thread here. It will probably get locked if we catch it.

2) You should not be posting "what will look great with my talon - should I get blue strobes for the corner's?"

3) Lighting/Audio suggestions and advice should not be asked for here - unless it's secondary to a radio issue... (which I'm expecting will be very infrequent)

Most importantly WHY was this done?

I will not debate the fact that there are some very smart and great people on this board who have knoledge that spans outside the radio spectrum into other area's. A lot of two-way people also do a lot of installs on department vehicles, etc. This is ment to assist people in properly wiring and installing equipment that they are otherwise authorized for in their vehicle(s).

It is not a forum that was created to ask people "what will look great on a dash on a lexus." No, No, and No.

Rule #1: You don't ding out a lexus. You take your girl out in the lexus. sigh.

Regardless - all joking aside - there are other forums out there that do cover these topics - and they do a great job at it. I'd rather support their causes by having people post questions on their board - and leave the Motorola stuff to us.

Off hand, I know elightbars.org is a popular one, people can feel free to suggest others. We obviously don't endorse one site over another, nor do we take responsibility for any content posted on those sites.

Thanks for your understanding.

These rules take effect January 1, 2006.

-Alex

[Side note: Discussion regarding different state laws and regulations regarding warning equipment are not permitted. You should NOT be taking legal advise from a message board... please.]

WhelenTech · Post by **WhelenTech** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:30 am

Elightbars is probably the largest....

If you are delaing with fire related equipment you might want to tap the knowledge of over 150 plus fire mechanics at:

http://www.evta.info/forums/

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:42 pm

Yep. You really don't want to much discussion on a discussion board. More rules is just what this board needs.

Dsycutter · Post by **Dsycutter** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:38 pm

THATS ASHAME, I CAME HERE FOR LIGHT INFO JUST AS MUCH AS I CAME HERE FOR RADIO INFO.

ok I retract that statement, I wish I had found elightbars.org months and months ago ggggrrrrrr.....

kg6bki · Post by **kg6bki** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:12 pm

Well the guy told me on the board to Run Through the Red Light and I woulden't get caught...darnnn advice...

Happy Holidays

commtek · Post by **commtek** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:53 pm

Cam22 wrote:Yep. You really don't want to much discussion on a discussion board. More rules is just what this board needs.

I simply can't believe it. I totally agree with Cam.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:03 pm

Looks like there might be a new area on the Batlounge

i also Agree with Cam on this issue

davkenrem · Post by **davkenrem** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:03 pm

Cam22 wrote:Yep. You really don't want to much discussion on a discussion board. More rules is just what this board needs.

DITTO!!!!

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:55 pm

3 words:

THANK YOU ALEX

"Batlabs" refers to the (/\/\) Batwings of Motorola, not the W of Whelen.

All the lights & siren threads should have been booted over to elightbars a LONG time ago.

mastr · Post by **mastr** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:24 pm

Will the last one out please shut off the lights...

Threeshot223 · Post by **Threeshot223** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:07 pm

So, next up is going to be only Motorola products in FSWT, right?

Birken Vogt · Post by **Birken Vogt** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:41 pm

I agree with the decision. There are enough places to discuss light bars and all that crap. I install emergency warning equipment too. But the fact is that there is so much more lighting/warning stuff going on than RF stuff, that any discussion forum that allows both will cause the RF to be drowned out 10 to 1 by light bar stuff. To my feeble mind, wading through the endless light bar headers searching for RF pearls gets to be too much after a while.

Birken

davkenrem · Post by **davkenrem** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:21 am

Birken Vogt wrote:I agree with the decision. There are enough places to discuss light bars and all that crap. I install emergency warning equipment too. But the fact is that there is so much more lighting/warning stuff going on than RF stuff, that any discussion forum that allows both will cause the RF to be drowned out 10 to 1 by light bar stuff. To my feeble mind, wading through the endless light bar headers searching for RF pearls gets to be too much after a while.

Birken

Good grief, theres not that much traffic on the Vehicle Installs threads that you can't just bypass the one or two lighting threads to get to the "RF pearls", If a thred dosent interest you don't read it. On the first page of Vehicle Installs you can see threads back to Nov. 3, a quick scroll of the mouse lets you view every topic for the last month.

I have never understood why people feel the need to complain about threads that don't interest them.

KB5AKO · Post by **KB5AKO** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:36 am

How about adding a new section to the board exclusive to installations of emergency equipment? I realize that this is not what this board is focused on. But, it appears that a significant percentage of the membership is in the Public Safety / Public Service arena. If this topic is segregated, then that will eliminate ones aggrevation of seeing mixed topic posts. Personally, I was glad to see the Motorola Digital and Paging group started because I have absolutely zero interest in pagers. Legal advise should certainly be discouraged. One should seek Counsel in lieu of advise from a message board. This decision may create a lot of unnecessary animosity and dissension. I vote to add a new group at least for a trial period. Does anyone care to second that motion?

Merry Christmas

Victor, KB5AKO

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:04 am

Plus one of the Reasons People post here about it is due to the Fact that the group here knows what they are talking about As comparred to a Bunch of Whack bags on the others

Post by **alex** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:26 am

Thanks for your comments.

However, this is about Motorola before it's about GE, Kenwood, Whelen, SVP, etc.

As I said - the discussion about lighting/sirens and stuff comes secondary to asking about radio stuff. It doesn't elimate discussion, it simply says - the topic should start off on a radio type of issue - and then, if you wanted to then slide a question in about a strobe supply - ok - that'll fly.

I don't want this forum to be about what light looks great on this. I also did NOT dispute the fact that there are several people here who know more than others on other boards about installs and other stuff. If you all read my post completly - you'll notice that install pictures and information is still welcome here.

My point is - we probably are the one and only site that people come to when they need Motorola help - we have a lot of friendly professionals who have years of experience working on this equipment, who run systems, who make purchasing decisions etc. So I want to keep it Motorola.

There are sites out there who do have a lot of people on them who know their stuff about lighting and other equipment, and they do a much better job than we could ever do covering that material. Why take away their spotlight.

Regardless - this is a place that does exist because of you - the people who read it every day - hour - minute (i know there are people there who are reading this within 10 seconds of it's posting). People complained about the lounge closing, us tightening the rains, etc, however, these people are still here - reading the board - and participating in Ham Sexy, the Louge, other sites to fill in the void where we once left off.

FSWT probably won't be tightened down above and beyond what it is now - unless people decide it's a great place to sell wicker furnature.

Have a happy holiday. We can always see how it works out - and rules are ment to sometimes be changed. Time is all we ask for.

-Alex

Post by **akardam** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:10 am

I was under the impression that the rules of the Vehicle board already stated as much - if it involves a Motorola radio somewhere, it's probably kosher, but you shouldn't be asking what the best way to make your Honda Civic look like a blooming Christmas Tree (heh). This is then I take it simply a notice that the existing rules are going to be more strictly enforced?

jmr3865 · Post by **jmr3865** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:13 am

I disagree with the decision. I agree that we need a new section just for lighting and sirens. For the people who do not want to go through those sections, they don't have too.

kb3jkp · Post by **kb3jkp** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:35 am

I agree with JMR.....

I'd say a good 80% of members here are affiliated in some way with LE/FD/EMS/EMA/LG/SG,etc

a large majority I'd assume to be installers,or people that maintain infrastructure....

other than hams,and maybe a plumber........if you're gonna be doing a professional comms install, 9/10 you're gonna be installing lighting as well.......

I believe that there should be a "lights/sirens" section... as well as a "radio" section.....

the issue.. like I said.. is I believe MOST radio installs done by members of this board include lighting/siren equipment..which .. of course...is gonna be displayed along with the radio install....

ALSO... wiring high power lighting/siren equipment is a lot like wiring comms equipment, in terms of needing proper grounds, proper wire sizing,etc.. although it should be common sense, there is a lot of knowledge to be gained from seeing "oddball" installs in cars that dont normally get installs done, and help others solve problems that they have.....

people posting the.. "I'm trying to install my (insert light/siren here) but I have a XYZ that has a positive ground, how do I wire it in" would help the same people that would ask... "I have a motorola ABC and I have an XYZ that has a positive ground, how do I wire it in"....

Dsycutter · Post by **Dsycutter** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:47 am

if its all the same to you ALex, could we as board members all take a vote on a new subsection?????

If not, fine I will accept your decisison.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:58 pm

I personally think it would be much better to find a way to keep this kind of discussion on here. I would come here long before I would bring a problem I'm having up on E-Light-Losers. I'd much rather have an experienced adult tell me what to do rather than a 16yr old wannabe security guard whacker with a street hawk on honda powered by phone line.

K8TEK · Post by **K8TEK** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:47 pm

I think we are all forgetting this is Alex's board, and he can do whatever he wants...

Alex
Alex
Alex

jmr3865 · Post by **jmr3865** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:53 pm

correct, but we can make suggestions, or just resign.

Threeshot223 · Post by **Threeshot223** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:11 pm

K8TEK wrote:I think we are all forgetting this is Alex's board, and he can do whatever he wants...

Alex
Alex
Alex

Yes, but what fun is a kingdom with no subjects?

K8TEK · Post by **K8TEK** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:21 pm

You mean a kingdom with no peasants.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:35 pm

You guys don't get it do you...

The entire point of these forums are to focus on Motorola Radios. And because of that there is an area to show off any install you have made with ANY equipment, or to ask a question about a particular installation relating to your 2 way radio equipment. It can be asked along the lines of "I have a Whelen Power supply that I want to put in my car, but I am afraid that I will get line noise in my radio. How far, or where should I put my power supply so it'll play nicely with my radio?"

The whole problem that has occured in here are every dinger, whacker, buff, etc from where ever have come in and started debates about light laws, and "which dashlight should I use". It doesn't belong here, and up until lately it has not been a problem. But lately there have been more and more cases of people who lack the ability to read rules and understand the intent of these forums. So if you want to sick in a circle and spank off to whatever flashing lights you are putting on a "demo" vehicle, perhaps eLightbars is the place for you.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that it would be nice for Batlabs to be the worlds greatest repository of all things Motorola and Emergency Services. But that is not the mission or intent of Batlabs.

And sorry to be a little grumpy on the holidays, but if you really feel the need to leave over this, sorry. I respect that decision, and wish you well in the future. But the forums here won't die without you. Same rings true for any member, moderator or administrator. I am fairly certain it can live if any one of us decides to leave.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:21 pm

well said, Jaymz. I come here for Motorola RADIO related info and to share what little I know. I could *CARE LESS* about the siren queer forums of little punk wanna-be cops and their bustmobiles and stupid questions like "how can I impersonate police/fire/EMS with my queer mobile and avoid arrest" when there are a plethora of places on the net that make their whole existence out of these whackers. Not to say everyone with lights in a POV is a whacker, some actually have authorization and actually serve and agency but just like programming trunking radios...if you have to ask if it's okay...then you probabbly know the answer.

Good call. I think it will keep the board focused.

Threeshot223 · Post by **Threeshot223** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:47 am

WC4RAV wrote:programming trunking radios...if you have to ask if it's okay...then you probabbly know the answer.

You bring up a good point there with programming trunked radios. Already there's at least one mod here who takes an extremely dim view on private citizens owning or programming Motorola radios. Lab RSS has become "stolen proprietary Motorola software", people wanting to program a trunked radio are told to get a scanner....it seems like this board is becoming more and more a mouthpiece of Motorola.

I'm guessing by June you'll have to have MOL access to post here?

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:49 am

Threeshot223 wrote:
WC4RAV wrote:programming trunking radios...if you have to ask if it's okay...then you probabbly know the answer.

You bring up a good point there with programming trunked radios. Already there's at least one mod here who takes an extremely dim view on private citizens owning or programming Motorola radios. Lab RSS has become "stolen proprietary Motorola software", people wanting to program a trunked radio are told to get a scanner....it seems like this board is becoming more and more a mouthpiece of Motorola.

I'm guessing by June you'll have to have MOL access to post here?

I think all the mods have a pretty dim view on the programming of trunking systems in your personal radio.

And it goes a little something like this...

1> Lab or Depot RSS is illegal... plain and simple.
2> Hacking a system key can potentially be illegal (I'll explain that later)
3> Unauthorized use of a TRS is illegal.

So it comes down to the fact that if you illegally get onto and use a trunked radio system (obviously without permission) you stand a good chance at going to jail. Or at least paying fines with lots of zeros. Anyone that has a legitimate use on a TRS, should have the ability to go to the sys-admin and get a proper ID and have their radio programmed properly by them. We have told people to buy a scanner mainly because of the fact that 85% of people that come on here saying "I want to listen to the local trunked system because... (insert reason here)" don't need to have an active radio/ID on the system to just listen. The other 15% may have legitimate reasons to have access to those systems, and want to use their own equipment. Those are the people that (as I said before) can legally and legitimately get an ID.

So what does this all mean to Batlabs? Simple. If we tell someone how to gain access to a system that they don't need to have access to, and then cause a problem and get themselves arrested... Batlabs is liable because the information was provided here when it shouldn't have been.

We do these types of things for the membership here. We are not the mouthpiece of Motorola, and you won't need an MOL account to get access. And personally I am getting sick and tired of the conspiracy theories regarding that. This is a HOBBY site, this isn't real life. Some of you guys take this WAY too seriously. Administration has a job to do and we do what we feel is in the best interest of the forums, so that way EVERYONE can enjoy them. As I said before, if you don't like those decisions and you feel you need to leave, I'm sorry. Membership here is a privilege, not a right.

thebigphish · Post by **thebigphish** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:09 am

JAYMZ wrote:Membership here is a privilege, not a right.

just like spandex.

Squad581 · Post by **Squad581** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:09 am

Emergency Vehicle Outfitters : http://www.EVO-USA.com

We're small but have a good following. Any refugees are welcome to join up and contribute to our forums!

- Squad581
______________________________________________
Emergency Vehicle Outfitters - http://www.EVO-USA.com
An Emergency Vehicle Enthusiast Site For Public Safety Professionals
Emergency Vehicle Products, Reviews, Photos, Videos, Forums and More!

WhelenTech · Post by **WhelenTech** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:29 am

Why not just moderate out the junk and add the section for lighting...

A good moderation crew that knows what to remove and actually states why it was removed is all you need..

I think you are going to chop of a source of members that do not want to go to elightbars and listen to the whining if you remove all talk abotu lighting...

Also the rule where it needs to start with radio and can go to lighitng is not right...

" I have this motorola radio installed next to my light controller - Hey do you know how to wire up this light controller??"

Seems like an easy way around things..to me..

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:32 am

Threeshot223 wrote: Already there's at least one mod here who takes an extremely dim view on private citizens owning or programming Motorola radios. Lab RSS has become "stolen proprietary Motorola software"

I'll assume you mean me, since I've said exactly that at times. Let's get it straight, I only mean to protect people who don't know any better. When someone posts with naive questions about how to 'trick' the depot by swapping boards & changing model numbers with LAB, then I have to let them know exactly what they're getting into. Same for the people who post about wanting to listen to trunked system XYZ, yet can't figure out what a system key is.

If you have the tools & the knowledge to do the above, you can do what you please with it. I couldn't care less & in fact, applaud you. You know what you're doing, & how not to get caught. Others aren't so lucky, and the risks need to be made clear to them.

As far as this fourm goes, as arkadam has pointed out, it's just a mandate to enforce the already existing rules. Too many people are getting their panties in a bunch over it.

Post by **akardam** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:07 am

Funny that that's how most people pronounce my nick on first sight... :P

This idea may have been brought up before, but is there any way within the framework of the board, say in someone's profile, to indicate that "I know about: Syntors, Spectras, etc etc, Whelen gear, FS gear, etc etc, check all that apply?" and then to have members be able to say "I want to see a list of everyone that knows about X", so that they could take a possibly O/T question to PM or e-mail? Or would that not fit with the spirit of the law, as it were? I mean, over time someone who frequents the board will get a fair idea of who knows what about which, but this could still be helpfull, I think.

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:38 am

akardam wrote:Funny that that's how most people pronounce my nick on first sight...

Dammit, I even thought I checked the spelling. As far as your idea goes...I don't see a way to put the info in a person's profile, other than in the signature or location fields. There's no 'hidden' fields to speak of that I can see, other than the 'ranking' spot we use for things like 'batboard supporter' or 'fail 01/90', etc. I think the signature area is the best spot, as I've seen several members with their interests/occupations in there.

Todd

weco-usa · Post by **weco-usa** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:05 pm

THANK YOU ALEX !!!

Glad to see this Non-Motorola-NON-Radio related whacker stuff taken off this RADIO forum. Noticed over the years this problem of too much other stuff which burried the actual purpose of this board - Motorola Radios !!

Happy to see it go, send it too the whackers at batlounge !!

ten8 · Post by **ten8** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:04 pm

i guess i'm going to have to start making wicker furniture then...

um, i mean...

(waves a OT flag) And there's one thing i like about this board.

When some idiot wants to program trunked information in their personal radio "because i want to listen to (insert stupid reason here)" and they're told to get a scanner, I'm GLAD!

I mean, i own a personal radio (Saber R, it used to be my baby, beacuse it was the only thing that stood up to my usage in EMS) I had to jump thru hoops to get it properly programmed by the city radio shop with the correct talkgroups that i needed to do my job, and with a proper radio ID, BUT i did jump thru those hoops (had to get a letter from my boss that said "please program this, he's broken 3 radios already") but i did it.

City's recently had a problem with unauthorized radios, so they finally started locking the units out of the system. Mine has a proper ID, so it stays, but i'm annoyed with the radio whackers.

I hate other boards that say "ok, this is how you do it" and end up causing more problems then good.

Ok, i'm getting off my soapbox to go make the wicker furniture.

wb4bsd · Post by **wb4bsd** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:29 am

This post went off topic fast..lol

From "new installs forum rules" to "trunking radio issues" in about 2 posts..

If you want to start up your own phpbb forum about how to program motorola radios and set them up on a private trunk system, then no one is stopping you and you can deal with the legal issues when Mother /\/\ starts breathing down your neck.

Happy New Year!

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:21 am

davkenrem wrote:I have never understood why people feel the need to complain about threads that don't interest them.

Ugh, I figured someone would say "if it doesn't interest you don't read it". What a crock.

Off-topic posts are exactly like spam email. I don't read the body of spam email, but I do have to read the title to see if that email is of importance to me. And when you start to get tons of spam, it's a waste of time to weed through and delete the crap. Unless there is a way to filter off-topic posts from "new posts since last visit" view, then I unfortunately have to read the titles for posts like "Best LEDs on a Lexus".

When I log in and see 100 new post topics, there's way too many that don't have anything to do with Motorola radios. Again, this is not Batlabs and WhelenLabs, it's just batlabs.

kb3jkp · Post by **kb3jkp** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:29 pm

this is not Batlabs and WhelenLabs, it's just batlabs

[sarcasm]

so... where's the posts about bats?? has anyone made a post about dissecting them... I mean.. batlabs... is a forum about radios?? I mean. WTF.. shouldnt it be "radiolabs" or "motorolalabs" ??

oh wait.. can't be motorolalabs... labs software is a big no-no

[/sarcasm]

(sorry.. just HAD to do it)

I vote for just adding sections under installs

1.Motorola
2.OTM (other than motorola)
3.Technical Questions(related to an install)
4.Emergency Vehicle Equipment
5.WANTED(ie, I need someone to install a astro spectra into my king cab ford f250)

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:09 pm

Here's a novel idea. How about a vote?

jmr3865 · Post by **jmr3865** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:22 pm

that idea has already been brought up. and ignored.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:34 pm

mancow wrote:Here's a novel idea. How about a vote?

I agree. How about a vote on adding a seperate forum for light and siren install questions, etc.

If it loses a majority vote then Buh-Bye. If it wins then lets do it and get it over with.

I agree with the posts about all the off topic vehicle install stuff, but i also would like to see the multi-talented radio and light installers hang around here rather than move off to elsewhere and spend less time helping out on here!

jmr3865 · Post by **jmr3865** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:38 pm

so how many yays do we have and how many nays do we have?

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:58 pm

Seriously children, just let it go. You whining sounds just like when the Batlounge was removed.... and yet it still is thriving on its own elsewhere.

There are plenty other message boards to talk about wacker lights as mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Perhaps there will even be a new section at the Batlounge?

Batlabs = Motorola - Period.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:06 pm

Bull...... it's all integrated. If it wasn't there wouldn't be so much interest.

I would like to see it stay.

jmr3865 · Post by **jmr3865** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:07 pm

if its not integrated, why do they make radios that can control the sirens?

dbcomm · Post by **dbcomm** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:07 pm

I have a feeling this is bandwidth related. You're going to lose a lot of traffic, and a lot of talented people.

kb3jkp · Post by **kb3jkp** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:28 pm

well.. I can "get away with it" ...lol

because I have ALL motorola equipment.....controlling my non-motorola equipment,hehe

spectra controls siren......
wildcard box controls lighting....

lmao...

yay moto

wb4bsd · Post by **wb4bsd** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:10 am

dbcomm wrote:I have a feeling this is bandwidth related. You're going to lose a lot of traffic, and a lot of talented people.

I have a feeling its motorola related. look at the name of this board, Its BATLABS BATBOARD, not FEDSIGWHELENSTROBESIREN Board.

I like to look and talk about lights and stuff like anyone else. I also like talking about lights with people whom i share a common bond with, i.e. radio. But if the Board Owner wants to set rules so that that type of material isnt talked about as much, then i will support him or i will leave.

I choose to support the board owner.

I feel that there is an indispensable amount of information here as well as on the hamsexy board.

Lets stop the complaining. the board isnt going to die because of this. suck it up and carry on smartly.

my 2 cents!