HT1000 Talk Permit Tone on Conventional, IT CAN BE DONE!

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:01 am

Ok a lot of discussion on this board has surrounded the Trunking Talk Permit Tone and if you can do it on conv. channels. The answer is YES. Some of you may have found this already, but to those who have not, here is how:
On the HT1000-
Read the radio as normal and get to the Signalling Options Menu (F7)
Then go to DTMF Phone List (F5) most HT1000s have this option some don't, if you do good if not your SOL.
After entering the screen scroll to DTMF Tx Pre-Time
set it to whatever you want
Then scroll to DTMF Digit Duration set it to 24.72
Then scroll to DTMF Inter-Digit Delay set it to 24.72
Then hit F2 (DTMF CONFIG)
Enter that screen and use the following setting
ACCESS/DE-ACCESS TYPE........AUTOMATIC
DTMF TONE TYPE...........CONTINOUS
USER PHONE LIST PROGRAMMING.........ENABLED
DTMF ANI TYPE.........KEY-UP
DTMF ANI CODE.........DELETE ALL NUMBERS SO FIELD IS BLANK THEN ENTER ANY 3 NUMBERS. (ONLY 3)
Then scroll to:
DTMF SIDETONE TYPE...........900HZ TONE (Change if needed)
Your done, write the radio and wal la Talk Permit Tone

Added note if you use MDC1200, you can still have MDC1200 ID just set the PTT ID to "DEKEY" or POST ID then you will have both.

MDC1200 KEYUP will not work with the DTMF Talk Permit Tone.

It's not exactly the same sound as a Talk Permit Tone, but it's pretty damn close. The closest I've ever found, try it out and see if you like it.
Not sure about VHF but I have a UHF (non-DTMF pad) HT1000 and it works for me.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions I'll try to help,

MUGGSY

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:55 am

wouldnt this also transmit the DTMF over the air?

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:31 am

Yes, it will.

crazyboy · Post by **crazyboy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:17 am

grem467 wrote:wouldnt this also transmit the DTMF over the air?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can get some more comments on that?

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:58 am

grem467 wrote:wouldnt this also transmit the DTMF over the air?

Haven't tried it but I notice duration and delay are set for the same length (24.72) maybe this cancels the Tx tone ?

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:04 pm

There would be (3) 24.2 millisecond DTMF tones with a 24.2 millisecond gap in between each one. It would be over in 121 miliseconds which would easily be clipped if you are on a repeater system. Simplex would hear it though.

I wonder, could you simply turn the DTMF deviation down to nothing so it would be transmitting nothing?

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:19 pm

I have been programming my HT1000/MT2000's this way for a few years.

It works really well, and it usually is fast enough to where you will not hear the DTMF.

I use this on both VHF and UHF, with the same results. This is on non-keypad models, and I use MDC on Post as well with the DTMF, so ya get the best of both worlds there. I have used this on many commercial/ham repeaters, and usually it never gets across. I have only noticed that it had gotten across more so on a PL tone rather than DPL tone. Also, I use DOS Muting for my MDC, and it seems to mute the DTMF on Simplex Channels in the radio.

Post by **VE9MP** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:24 pm

I don't suppose someone could post a little audio file of what it sounds like anyone?

Is it almost identical to the trunking TPT?

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:15 pm

Yes, if you set it for a long pre-time it will send the DTMF tones over the air, however, mine is set for Pretime-200ms and the repeater clips all the dtmf tones. Sometimes the last one slips through but most of the time it clips it all.

Now as far as the sound. I keyed up the HT1000-UHF conv. and then my MTS2000-800mhz Trunking unit with Talk Permit Tone, I can't tell the difference. They sound very much alike. I don't have a real good ear for these things, so I had the girlfriend listen and she thinks the two sound exactly the same.

Muggsy

Will · Post by **Will** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:01 pm

Someone posted that the "Talk Permit" tones were 1760hz. 29ms duration, 29 ms inbetween.

DPL · Post by **DPL** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:36 am

I tried this on everyone's favorite radio

(the Visar, UHF, D model), and it seems to work fine. Makes sense, since it is just a mini-HT1000.

What I could not get was the ability to use MDC-1200 (yes, on dekey), at the same time. Every time I try to enable PTT ID in the MDC screen, it tells me to turn off DTMF PTT ID first. OK, I do that, then turn on MDC post PTT ID, then try to turn on DTMF PTT ID again, and it tells me to turn off MDC PTT ID first. Bah.

I like having something that beeps when I key up in case I hit the button accidentally. I usually use pre-MDC ID, but that big long sidetone gets annoying.

Post by **VE9MP** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:10 pm

Software does it no problem for me on a R split BN HT1000....

I set up the MDC personality first, on De-Key, assigned it to the channels I wanted, then did the talk permit tone trick, and software isn't complaining...

If anyones curious, if you do this "trick" it affects all channels, you can't turn it on or off on a per channel basis like MDC ID or Singletone...

One thing I notcied though, is that when I go to

Then scroll to DTMF Digit Duration set it to 24.72
Then scroll to DTMF Inter-Digit Delay set it to 24.72

I can't enter any values with decimals, the closest I can get is 25 mSec's....

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:32 pm

That's the same thing that I get, is "Pre-Set" values. (I forget which, but very close in that range, and I think a decimal as well, for what it matters)

It works fine for me on my BN,CN, and DN.

sleepingsurfer · Post by **sleepingsurfer** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:47 pm

Will this same trick work for all the jedi series, say like the MTS2000?

Post by **VE9MP** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:28 am

Looks like I may have been wrong, it seems as if you cannot have the TPT and MDC PTT ID in the same radio (key-up or de-key)....

You DO get to enable the TPT on a per channel basis by enabling "PTT ID" under the channel info screen (F4). If you had both, these would conflict with eachother because you enable MDC ID in the same way....

So it looks like you can only have one or the other, TPT, or MDC ID, not both... (but you can retain MDC Emergency)

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:07 am

Seems to be working for some, but not for others. I see some of you can't get MDC and the TPT. I have 2 HT1000s both can do MDC1200 Dekey ID and the TPT trick at the same time. Both are "DN" radios and I'm using software version, R03.02.01

Muggsy

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:34 am

I'm with Muggsy as well on this.

The earliest revision HT1000 I have on hand is a BN, and I have a few of each on BN, CN. and, DN. All seem to work fine with MDC ID on POST, and the DTMF on PRE.

JustinMoon205 · Post by **JustinMoon205** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:07 pm

Has anyone tried this with any other JEDI radios? JT1000, MT2000, MTS2000, MTX838, etc?

-Justin

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:26 am

I'm going to try it with the my MTS2000 UHF and see if there is way to do it. Some how I doubt it. I'll post my findings.

JustinMoon205 · Post by **JustinMoon205** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:33 am

Cool. I am going to try it with my JT1000s to see if it works with them. They program on the same software as the HT1000, so maybe it will work with them also.

I'll post later a report.

-Justin Moon

Post by **akardam** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:54 am

Works just fine on my JT1000's.

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:59 am

akardam wrote:Works just fine on my JT1000's.

Nice! I've had several guys at work asking me to make their HT1000s do it.

crazyboy · Post by **crazyboy** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:29 pm

Has anyone accomplished this on the mts2000?

Nexrad16 · Post by **Nexrad16** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:13 pm

How about an HT1550?

Post by **akardam** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:54 pm

An HT1550 and its ilk transmit either long or short sidetones on DTMF ANI TX, but not tones commensurate with the length and spacing of the digits.

So in short, no.

thebigphish · Post by **thebigphish** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:50 pm

...and this gets broadcasted, right?

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:09 pm

No, the actual side-tone does not, but what it is sounding for (either MDC or QC or DTMF/ANI), you, the user, will hear it from the speaker of the radio.

Other users on the freq./system will hear the MDC or other signalling, not the actual tone. The options for the CDM/HT750/1250/1550 ect is:

-No Sidetone
-Long Side Tone (Beeeeeeep)
-Short Side Tone (~3 second silence, then Beep)
-Long+Short (BeeeeeeeeBeep)

thebigphish · Post by **thebigphish** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:48 am

yeah, what i meant was all this ani/dtmf gets broadcasted so that users get a local sidetone before tx? poor dispatchers and their ears....

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:03 pm

Won't work on my MTS2000 Model number H01SDD9PW1BN, flash# 000001-000000-9. RSS says radio model doesn't support any DTMF features. So if you have an MTS2000 that does do DTMF maybe it will work. As far mine it doesn't.

Muggsy

60A · Post by **60A** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:45 am

Any body been able to do this on an XTS 3000 on conventional yet?

*crosses fingers*

ayaresr · Post by **ayaresr** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:44 am

Any one have an audio clip of both this and the trunking key up that I could compare? Thanks

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:32 am

I have a clip on my home computer now I have to figure how to upload it.

ayaresr · Post by **ayaresr** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:45 pm

If you wouldn't mind emailing this to me, ayaresr@hotmail.com
Thanks

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:59 pm

Ok I'll send it with in the next few days, when I'm on my home computer.

Post by **alex** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:07 pm

There is about 0 difference.

Program it up... get a box of tissues... go nuts.

-Alex

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:21 pm

no way.... I got to try that myself and hear it... let see if we can found out if its the talk permit tone for Clear mode or Encyrpted lol.

muggsy09 · Post by **muggsy09** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:08 pm

ayaresr wrote:If you wouldn't mind emailing this to me, ayaresr@hotmail.com
Thanks

Sent it today sorry it took so long.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:02 am

60A wrote:Any body been able to do this on an XTS 3000 on conventional yet? *crosses fingers*

Looks like the answer is going to be no.. unless you're talking on a repeater that's configured for MDC RAC. It WILL do the accept tone, but only upon receiving acknowledgement of the RAC "ack". Selecting DTMF as the RAC type generates nothing, and singletone generates a steady sidetone.

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:27 pm

awwww.... so much for astro sabers.....

RoundnRound · Post by **RoundnRound** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:09 pm

Rayjk110 wrote:I have been programming my HT1000/MT2000's this way for a few years.

It works really well, and it usually is fast enough to where you will not hear the DTMF.

I use this on both VHF and UHF, with the same results. This is on non-keypad models, and I use MDC on Post as well with the DTMF, so ya get the best of both worlds there. I have used this on many commercial/ham repeaters, and usually it never gets across. I have only noticed that it had gotten across more so on a PL tone rather than DPL tone. Also, I use DOS Muting for my MDC, and it seems to mute the DTMF on Simplex Channels in the radio.

I have an MT2000 UHF top display tha I would like to program this way... I didn't see any DTMF Signalling in my menu. Any help?

-Steve

RoundnRound · Post by **RoundnRound** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:31 pm

anyone?

DPL · Post by **DPL** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:11 am

I don't think that MT2000 radios are capable of DTMF ANI.

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:24 am

My revision "C" is chirping away happily. I however, have run out of tissue.

RADIO43 · Post by **RADIO43** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:58 pm

Has anyone tried this with an XTS5000 due to the DTMF Signalling???

Fuel4300 · Post by **Fuel4300** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:59 pm

RADIO43 wrote:Has anyone tried this with an XTS5000 due to the DTMF Signalling???

Tried it out and I can't get it to work. It transmits the tones but nothing comes over the speaker only the steady tone if it is enabled. What a bummer...

Heterodyne · Post by **Heterodyne** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:09 am

Pardon me for being a killjoy, but why would someone want their radio to do this.... other than pretending that they are talking on a TRS?

redbeard · Post by **redbeard** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:36 am

Heterodyne wrote:Pardon me for being a killjoy, but why would someone want their radio to do this.... other than pretending that they are talking on a TRS?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. It'll turn a few heads at the hamfest too heh.

Heterodyne · Post by **Heterodyne** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:52 am

redbeard wrote:Yeah, that's pretty much it. It'll turn a few heads at the hamfest too heh.

If that's what they want, I guess that's fine then...

Seems a little whackerish to me, but then again.. what do I know...

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:31 am

Well, it is pretty nice to have an indication that you have keyed up. I've unknowingly keyed up with the radio on my belt. It's much less intrusive to the user and others on the channel than using mdc side tones.

Heterodyne · Post by **Heterodyne** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:05 pm

True, but that's not the issue here. There are many ways of creating a PTT sidetone on an HT1000 - the issue in this thread is why making it sound just like a TRS talk permit tone.

Aw ferrgetit... have your fun, guys.... Keep the whacker fires burning