best encryption level can get?

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:46 pm

well whats the best encryption i can get for my saber?

I know fasc but not suppose to have that, but whats the difference in the module as far as i can tell they all look the same to me

Post by Pj » Wed Oct 24, 2001 7:03 pm

http://www.batlabs.com/encrypt.html

Scroll down to the end

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 7:04 pm

DES is still the most secure encryption type available to the general radio market.

Elroy

radioEd · Post by **radioEd** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:02 pm

I thought it was DVP? or does just the white house communications agency use that? (brainfade) Ed

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:09 pm

DVP has only a 32 bit word length. DES has 56 bits and is MUCH more secure. The XL versions of both are less secure but longer range than the non-XL versions.

Software encryption, as offered on VSELP Astro products, is a 24 bit system. That's only 16.77 million codes and could be broken in a few days without going nuts on the computer's price tag.

Elroy

radioEd · Post by **radioEd** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:34 pm

copy that thanks Elroy! I just read that on the batlabs link above! thanks again Ed

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:20 pm

anyone has a picture of a dummy bypass plug?

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 5:08 pm

The greatest level available is that made for government use.
Sometimes you will find radios with "Mark III" or "Mark IIII", or, sometimes the modules.
They require a keyloader that is special, for that family of encryption.
They are NOT compliant with standard motorola scramble units.

Thank You.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 8:11 pm

That's type I encryption, probably. But it's already been well established that you can't GET that. It's not legal to have it unless you're a governmental agency or have been issued the equipment by said agency.

The most secure encryption type you can legally own and that is available for Motorola radios is DES.

Elroy

Arnold Horshack · Post by **Arnold Horshack** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 10:49 pm

In addition to Elroy's comment, you also need to be a Government agency that the NSA has certified to use Type 1 encryption. Also with Fascinator encryption you MUST change the key's every 7 day's No Exceptions unless approved by the NSA!

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 9:03 am

Along with the encryption thread, can someone tell me how the AVS system with the HT1000 works? I can't seem to find any part numbers or info about it.

jim · Post by **jim** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 10:29 am

When all of our local PDs want a true secure mode, they use their Nextels even though they have Spectras with encryption. I guess all of this big $$ encryption really isn't needed if the department has issued cell phones.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:25 pm

Well, that's pretty stupid of them. Nextel's format (iDen) is digital but not encrypted. There are ways to listen to Nextel phones...using readily available surplus Nextel phones and the programming software which is probably as readily available as any other RSS if you really want it.

Maybe that agency didn't actually pay the extra money to install encryption in the entire radio system and that's why they use their Nextel equipment?

Elroy

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:04 am

On 2001-10-28 13:29, jim wrote:
When all of our local PDs want a true secure mode, they use their Nextels even though they have Spectras with encryption. I guess all of this big $$ encryption really isn't needed if the department has issued cell phones.

Many people confuse "digital" with "encrypted". Yes, digital sounds like static when using a regular analog scanner, but as Elroy pointed out, can easily be scanned by anyone who wants to put a minimum of effort into it, and I'm assuming most criminal elements would. Your PD's are grossly misinformed if they believe their Nextel communications are "secure". You have to encrypt the signal, be it analog or digital, to make it secure. Your PD's probably have the old "Securenet" technology, which sounds like crap, so they prefer the phones. It'll come back on them one day.

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 6:11 am

You can't convince this department. The cellphone dealer in town tells them that it's secure. We all know how secure this technology is- about as secure as voice inversion was 15 years ago. And yes- they have Securenet!

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:07 am

It wouldn't be difficult to arrange a demonstration for them, if you really wanted to stir them up.

Elroy

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:56 am

On 2001-10-29 09:11, jim wrote:
You can't convince this department. The cellphone dealer in town tells them that it's secure. We all know how secure this technology is- about as secure as voice inversion was 15 years ago. And yes- they have Securenet!

Why they would listen to a minimum wage, commission-based sales person as opposed to a trained communications technician is beyond me. Ask the cellular dealer in question who's liable if an incident occurs when someone scans the PD conversations which they claim are "secure". That may change their tune. Victims sue the cops, cops sue the cellular company, simple as that!

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 9:04 am

NEXTEL, iDEN, secure?, a past issue of 2600 magazine,
http://www.2600.com/
Had an article on how to hack the 5xx series of iDEN portable, what you did was to take a cable that was sold with the organizer software package and put the thing in test mode, I was witness to this working, one can select from radio talkgroups or telephone talkgroups, or, one radios ID, or a mix, and listen, not only not secure, but selective scanning, and because office depot discontinued the 5xx series, all the budget phreakers have one.

Test Mode, motofones, cellular or PCS, not iDEN, no cable required.

FCN,0,0,*,*,8,3,7,8,6,6,3,3,STO, hold # down for a second, you will be greeted with US ' , You are now in testmode, there are about 70 commands, be careful, to exit, 01# will restart.

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:23 pm

Oh no! CowThief, would you happen to recall which edition? I would hate to scan through all of these (looks from right to left). Thanks for the info. I will be attempting to program an MTX-8000 full keypad for type 2 and possibly type 1 operation. If anyone is interested, I can post my results. FatBoy

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:59 pm

Hello.

The nextel 5xx units are put in service mode by grounding the TXd data line, this is most easily done with the cable from the organizer kit, once this is done, there is a service mode, commands can turn TX on/off, open RX, set channel, all the standard stuff, I have no list, but should not be hard to figure out.
The next option, the organizer cable has some pins moved, this and lab software allows one to do all the neat stuff, this is also illegal, remember EPCA of 1986, sooo, the info is out there but only in print form.
The law protects the "press", not the web.

willbartlett · Post by **willbartlett** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 5:16 pm

Does anyone happen to know which edition of 2600 had this info. Also, has anyone ever heard of conventional, non iden channels being programmed into Iden stuff, maybe with some kind of wizz-bang lab ghostware? anyone ever get one of the 370 series into service mode? I'm swimming in them, would love to find a better use than door-stop for them. :')

Will

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:38 pm

I love this site. I just wanted to say that.
Makes me think its a Lone Gunmen thing.

I respect all of you who help out the rest of "us" with tips, advice, warnings, etc...

For without "you" we would be broke from sending our toasted radios and such for a "flat rate" repair.

God Bless you all.