MTS2000 - operation is not allowed (system key issue?)

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:15 pm

Hi all!

I have MTS2000 programmed to our SmartZone system. RSS ver. R06.07.00.

I can write radio, incl. adding/deleting new systems, adding/deleting new trunking personalities, but I cannot add/delete talkgroups to old (created a long time ago) or new (created just now) personalities!

Error message appears: This operation is not allowed without a system key or a hardware key present.

Very stranger, because I have assigned in RSS system key for this system and this key allow operations like is: adding new systems, adding new trunking personalities. I sure that this key really works, because w/o it I cannot add new systems, add new trunking personalities.

Bat what with adding/deleting talkgroups? Why I cannot add/del it?

Patriotically incorrect system key?

Or ???

Please help!

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:15 pm

could those of been added a long time ago with a different key?

AEC · Post by **AEC** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:07 pm

The probability exists with that particular system key in that it was never 'designed' to allow adding/deleting those 'new' talkgroups, or the system does not have the capability for added talkgroups, so your sys key is halting your additions as the build may exceed the system's capability or capacity.

If the system was designed to handle 20 talkgroups, and you want 25, it has no place to assign those extra talkgroups within the system.

You can not exceed the capacity of the system and have it remain functional, so adding more subfleets or talkgroups to an already 'loaded' system will not be possible as there is not proper channel steering to handle the added groups within the system.

Talk to the admin, and see what's actually available, then you will know for certain what you can add and make use of.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:12 pm

Err... he's programming an MTS2000 with RSS. No advanced system keys, and the radio/RSS certainly has no knowledge of the system, existing talkgroups, etc. 31 byte file, remember?

Sounds to me like it's time to reload the RSS and get a fresh copy of the syskey.

AEC · Post by **AEC** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:43 pm

This is true, but the system key he has loaded, is probably set up to disallow entries that were not originally included with that particular key, so it 'fails'.

But even if he does acquire a new sys key, he may still not be able to add his talkgroups regardless of the radio/RSS he has due to the actual system he's attampting to load these for...his admin may not allow it, and the system may also not be large enough to allow this either.

Remote viewing of that system is not possible, so I have no idea as to the actual size or capabilities of that particular network, so I am forced somewhat to throw out 'what-ifs'.

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:06 pm

Every one of your what-ifs rely on incorrect assumptions. He is *not* using Advanced System Keys - therefore, they key can NOT be set up to disallow certain talkgroups! A regular, old-school system key has no functionality to allow/disallow talkgroups, or do anything more except to tell the software that it can program a certain system ID.

It's not like he's programming the radio and then getting an illegal boop when he tries to use it. He can't enter the data he wants in the RSS.

Again, this has nothing to do with the system. It has something to do with his RSS or codeplug.

AEC · Post by **AEC** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:24 pm

I understand that, his sys key is simply out of date and was not set up to allow additions.

So he can't add more and get away with it.

I already stated he is using an outdated system key, and that is not an assumption.

RSS or not, the system key he has is not set up for additional talkgroups and will not allow him to change them either, what more needs to be said?

SPEAKER MIC · Post by **SPEAKER MIC** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:38 pm

well a.e.c.

my keys work fine..

ya must be doing something wrong!!!!

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:17 pm

HLA

could those of been added a long time ago with a different key?

Yes. It is possible in theory. But in this case operations regarding the systems and trunking personalities also must be disabled. But this key enables it, I check it.

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:21 pm

AEC

The probability exists with that particular system key in that it was never 'designed' to allow adding/deleting those 'new' talkgroups, or the system does not have the capability for added talkgroups, so your sys key is halting your additions as the build may exceed the system's capability or capacity.

If the system was designed to handle 20 talkgroups, and you want 25, it has no place to assign those extra talkgroups within the system.

You can not exceed the capacity of the system and have it remain functional, so adding more subfleets or talkgroups to an already 'loaded' system will not be possible as there is not proper channel steering to handle the added groups within the system.

Talk to the admin, and see what's actually available, then you will know for certain what you can add and make use of.

You are wrong in many lines =)

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:37 pm

AEC

RSS or not, the system key he has is not set up for additional talkgroups and will not allow him to change them either, what more needs to be said?

I agree with tvsjr. As I know, no functions to enable/disable any specified operations in old-style keys.

And how you explain that this key enable me add new systems and trunking personalities? It is not possible without key! I check! Error message appears if I try add/del systems/trunking personalities/talkgroups.

And how key may be expired for adding/deleting talksgroups, but not expired for adding/deleting systems and trunking personalities?

It is not designed in old-style keys!!!

Old-style key must works or not works. No other variants as I know.

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:41 am

Guys!

Problem solved!

Just incorrect filename of the system key file.

After renaming accordingly to filename format, described problem disappear!

SPEAKER MIC · Post by **SPEAKER MIC** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:38 am

i was just about to ask you if you had the proper path for your system key...

good luck with your "mission"...

wireless.friendly · Post by **wireless.friendly** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:53 am

SPEAKER MIC wrote:i was just about to ask you if you had the proper path for your system key...

good luck with your "mission"...

Path was been always correct! Problem was been in filename. I sure for 100%.

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:35 am

tvsjr wrote: A regular, old-school system key has no functionality to allow/disallow talkgroups, or do anything more except to tell the software that it can program a certain system ID.

100% correct. a 31 byte system key file, regardless of age; has zippity do to do with anything other than "yes he is allowed to set parameters for system XXXX"

nothing less,nothing more.

Advanced System Keys on the other hand, are much more robust.