Hello all. Glad to be a part of your community!! Here is my problem. As a hobby I am a race coordinator at my best friends motocross track, we have been borrowing some VHF (I believe they are GMRS) CP100?? radios. They worked so-so but the terrain is very hilly and we had a couple of issues with range. Where I work we use VHF mobile (installed) radios so that is what I am familiar with. We want to get our own freq. and was going to get a VHF freq, but after talking to Motorola rep he said I should consider UHF. Eventually I would use this freq in my Trucking operation I am starting up, would be running about 150 mile radius. Any help would be appreciated. Also is there a price difference in UHF vs VHF radios? And which would be easier to come by used say on E-Bay or something like that? Thanks guys for all your help in advance.
Jeff
Newbie needs help! UHF vs VHF
Moderator: Queue Moderator
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MTS2000des
- Posts: 3347
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:59 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS2500, XTS5000, and MTS2000
welcome to the board...
your 150 mile operation would probably be better served by Nextel, building out a system to cover that much territory will cost big bucks...could be several hundred grand if done right.
For your Motorcross stuff, VHF 25 watt mobiles with a 1/4 antenna will usually give solid coverage up to 5+ miles.
I would advise against buying any used radios off Ebay until you are more familiar with radio in general, or consult with a friend or associate who is. There are alot of good radios out there, and there is also alot of junk radios sold by people who don't care what your needs are. You get what you pay for.
If you want a solution that works for your business, find a reputable dealer (read, doesn't have to be Motorola. Kenwood and Icom build just as good if not better radios and can be had for much less cash) in your area that will work with your budget constraints. Be upfront and realistic about what you want to spend. Remember a good radio SYSTEM is an investment and will pay off if well thought out and implemented correctly.
The key is identifying your needs. Wide area coverage systems may already exist in your area (besides Nextel), again, talk to your dealer and find out what he/she has to offer.
FYI GMRS is designed for family business and requires a license. A GMRS license covers everyone in your immediate family. It is NOT intended nor legal to use GMRS frequences (which are all in the UHF 462/467MHz band) for business use unless it is between family members or other GMRS licensees.
your 150 mile operation would probably be better served by Nextel, building out a system to cover that much territory will cost big bucks...could be several hundred grand if done right.
For your Motorcross stuff, VHF 25 watt mobiles with a 1/4 antenna will usually give solid coverage up to 5+ miles.
I would advise against buying any used radios off Ebay until you are more familiar with radio in general, or consult with a friend or associate who is. There are alot of good radios out there, and there is also alot of junk radios sold by people who don't care what your needs are. You get what you pay for.
If you want a solution that works for your business, find a reputable dealer (read, doesn't have to be Motorola. Kenwood and Icom build just as good if not better radios and can be had for much less cash) in your area that will work with your budget constraints. Be upfront and realistic about what you want to spend. Remember a good radio SYSTEM is an investment and will pay off if well thought out and implemented correctly.
The key is identifying your needs. Wide area coverage systems may already exist in your area (besides Nextel), again, talk to your dealer and find out what he/she has to offer.
FYI GMRS is designed for family business and requires a license. A GMRS license covers everyone in your immediate family. It is NOT intended nor legal to use GMRS frequences (which are all in the UHF 462/467MHz band) for business use unless it is between family members or other GMRS licensees.
The views here are my own and do not represent those of anyone else or the company, the boss, his wife, his dog or distant relatives.
Thanks for the reply, I guess I am trying to do too much range, our moto radius mobiles will do 30+ miles mobile to mobile, and I din't know if UHF would have better reach or not. The radios we were using are those moto radios you can get at Radio Shack or Home Depot, so I guess those wouldn't be the GMRS kind. The radios at the track need to be hand held radios for the staff to have with them. That is my biggest concern is to get the track well covered, that is how we coordinate everything including the EMS on site if someone should get injured during a race. Thanks so much.
Jeff
Jeff
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emsbuff3240
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:23 am
- What radios do you own?: Centracom Gold Elite, XTS5K 4K
Stick with VHF if you dont want to set up a network of repeaters, UHF wont get you very far without 100ft towers and repeaters throughout the area.
Try MURS or apply for a business liscense to talk on VHF.
The radios you are talking about, FRS, will not do you ANY good!!! Get mororola CP200s or CP125s. Especially on VHF you will notice a HUGE difference. In portable coverage, plus interoperability with the mobiles you currently have. 150 is a bit of a long shot though without a few repeaters and really high towers.
Try MURS or apply for a business liscense to talk on VHF.
The radios you are talking about, FRS, will not do you ANY good!!! Get mororola CP200s or CP125s. Especially on VHF you will notice a HUGE difference. In portable coverage, plus interoperability with the mobiles you currently have. 150 is a bit of a long shot though without a few repeaters and really high towers.
-Jon
For the track just keep it simple, go MURS, 2w is allowed, free to use, no licensing to deal with, etc.
Buy some older, aka cheaper, moto handhelds that are 2w units and program them for MURS, problem solved. And that gives you 5 channels to work with in the case that someone else in your area is using it. Plus you can use PL, DPL, etc if you want to block listening to people other than your group.
You wouldn't believe how many 2w HT600's and MT1000's i have sold over the years since MURS was established. Around here it's still under utilized, but in some areas its quite active.
Definitely go with VHF versus UHF.. If you really wanted solid coverage though you could put up a GMRS repeater and get everyone on that at the track. This is provided you got some high ground to put the repeater on, and the funding for it. Though one can cheaply build said repeater with a couple Maxtrac's, controller, and duplexer. Just make sure you have the GMRS license in hand first. Around where i live there is a lot of stuff on GMRS, including people using 100w mobiles and repeaters without licenses.
Unless someone complains and they get nabbed it will go on, do i care, nope.. At least they aren't clogging the ham bands.
Buy some older, aka cheaper, moto handhelds that are 2w units and program them for MURS, problem solved. And that gives you 5 channels to work with in the case that someone else in your area is using it. Plus you can use PL, DPL, etc if you want to block listening to people other than your group.
You wouldn't believe how many 2w HT600's and MT1000's i have sold over the years since MURS was established. Around here it's still under utilized, but in some areas its quite active.
Definitely go with VHF versus UHF.. If you really wanted solid coverage though you could put up a GMRS repeater and get everyone on that at the track. This is provided you got some high ground to put the repeater on, and the funding for it. Though one can cheaply build said repeater with a couple Maxtrac's, controller, and duplexer. Just make sure you have the GMRS license in hand first. Around where i live there is a lot of stuff on GMRS, including people using 100w mobiles and repeaters without licenses.
Unless someone complains and they get nabbed it will go on, do i care, nope.. At least they aren't clogging the ham bands.
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"I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own!" - Adam Savage
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afterimage84
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:09 pm
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fogster
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:38 am
- What radios do you own?: XTS2500/5000, XPR7550/5550
Wow, you've gotten a lot of varied answers. I'll try to throw in my comments, starting at the top:
- Welcome! I've found the Batboard to be the most helpful resource for Motorola gear out there, and bet that you'll do the same.
- Not to nitpick, just to help you out: GMRS is UHF. If you're using VHF radios, they're probably MURS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Use_Radio_Service) or general VHF business band (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_band) radios.
- A mobile radio is going to give you much, much better range, partially because they tend to put out about 10 times the power of a handheld radio (HT), but also because they usually have much better antennas.
- Prices for UHF and VHF gear are generally the same. I've found that there are more UHF than VHF radios on eBay, but this isn't to suggest that VHF radios are at all rare. Of the radios I've picked up from eBay (it's an addiction), it's about 50/50 VHF/UHF.
- Others have recommended a repeater. While you can probably get by without one, it's the surest way to ensure full-quieting communications on-site. Depending on how you want to proceed, you could set up a small repeater to cover the track, or try to build a high-powered repeater, either atop a tall building or erect a small tower on-site, to try to give you much better range. (Useful for your trucking company, although I agree with MTS2000des: you're never going to get 150 mile range out of a single repeater, unless it's atop a massive mountain.)
- Stupid question: are you familiar with what a repeater is? (I don't really want to assume either way... One way I'd be demeaning you by explaining something you knew, and the other way I'm speaking gibberish. Let me know if you need an explanation.)
- "Real" radios cost money. Going the eBay, used route, expect to spend $100+ per radio. Note that you're also going to have to get them programmed, which is generally something you can't do yourself. (See http://batlabs.com/newbie.html this for why.)
- While I agree with MTS2000des (again) that buying radios off of eBay isn't something you should do until you're quite familiar with them (there's a lot of bad deals to be had), I also don't want to scare you off and make you buy brand-new radios when it's probably a waste of money. I think others will agree that we'd be glad to help you out in finding some used radios.
- A few people have recommend going with MURS, but I'm kind of under the impression that it's what you've been using now, and even if it's not, it doesn't sound like MURS is going to be much of an improvement. I personally vote that you look at licensing, but license two frequencies, one for a repeater input, and one for a repeater output. (Disclaimer: I'm not too familiar with trying to get licensing for frequencies.) Most 'real' VHF handhelds will do 5 Watts easy, which is 2.5 times what MURS does.
- I don't think you can get a GMRS license for a business anymore, and, quite frankly, if you're going to go get a license from the FCC for something, you might as well do it right and get a license for a business repeater.
- Welcome! I've found the Batboard to be the most helpful resource for Motorola gear out there, and bet that you'll do the same.
- Not to nitpick, just to help you out: GMRS is UHF. If you're using VHF radios, they're probably MURS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Use_Radio_Service) or general VHF business band (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_band) radios.
- A mobile radio is going to give you much, much better range, partially because they tend to put out about 10 times the power of a handheld radio (HT), but also because they usually have much better antennas.
- Prices for UHF and VHF gear are generally the same. I've found that there are more UHF than VHF radios on eBay, but this isn't to suggest that VHF radios are at all rare. Of the radios I've picked up from eBay (it's an addiction), it's about 50/50 VHF/UHF.
- Others have recommended a repeater. While you can probably get by without one, it's the surest way to ensure full-quieting communications on-site. Depending on how you want to proceed, you could set up a small repeater to cover the track, or try to build a high-powered repeater, either atop a tall building or erect a small tower on-site, to try to give you much better range. (Useful for your trucking company, although I agree with MTS2000des: you're never going to get 150 mile range out of a single repeater, unless it's atop a massive mountain.)
- Stupid question: are you familiar with what a repeater is? (I don't really want to assume either way... One way I'd be demeaning you by explaining something you knew, and the other way I'm speaking gibberish. Let me know if you need an explanation.)
- "Real" radios cost money. Going the eBay, used route, expect to spend $100+ per radio. Note that you're also going to have to get them programmed, which is generally something you can't do yourself. (See http://batlabs.com/newbie.html this for why.)
- While I agree with MTS2000des (again) that buying radios off of eBay isn't something you should do until you're quite familiar with them (there's a lot of bad deals to be had), I also don't want to scare you off and make you buy brand-new radios when it's probably a waste of money. I think others will agree that we'd be glad to help you out in finding some used radios.
- A few people have recommend going with MURS, but I'm kind of under the impression that it's what you've been using now, and even if it's not, it doesn't sound like MURS is going to be much of an improvement. I personally vote that you look at licensing, but license two frequencies, one for a repeater input, and one for a repeater output. (Disclaimer: I'm not too familiar with trying to get licensing for frequencies.) Most 'real' VHF handhelds will do 5 Watts easy, which is 2.5 times what MURS does.
- I don't think you can get a GMRS license for a business anymore, and, quite frankly, if you're going to go get a license from the FCC for something, you might as well do it right and get a license for a business repeater.
Hey all, I think I gave too much info in my first post and ran too much together. For this I apoligize, let me try to make more sense out of my ramblings. First off the radios we have been using at the track were similar to the xv1100 and xv2100. they have built in frequencies. I want to go with either a 5 watt vhf or uhf handheld radio. we can't use mobiles on the track, they must wearable and mobile. We are trying to cover about 20 acres of land but its very hilly. I thought about setting up a simple repeater at the track but I think that would be a little overkill. I think going from 2 to 5 watts would really help. I've been thinking about the Moto P110, anyone have any experience with these? The track and the trucking are 2 separate issues but would share a common frequency. As far as the the trucking aspect if i could get a longer distance with one band over another that would probably be the one i would go with. I don't really need the full 150 miles but I would need more than the CB would offer.
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RadioSouth
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 2884
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
The P110 and very similar GP300 are fine performers, Only downside is the battery contacts are a bit fragile if batteries need to be taken on and off often. Also if you're going to be using these with audio accessories the accessory connector is also a weak link. But if you're not using them with audio accessories and can leave the same battery on most of the time (recharged as one piece) their a fairly sturdy radio that can be had at a good price.
The range difference between a 2 watt and 5 watt radio will not be as much at it probably sounds, many factors at play but 25% is about right.
To cover the track as described with portable to portable a repeater is going to be needed to do the job reliably.
If a repeater is not an option stick with VHF in this application for best range.
The range difference between a 2 watt and 5 watt radio will not be as much at it probably sounds, many factors at play but 25% is about right.
To cover the track as described with portable to portable a repeater is going to be needed to do the job reliably.
If a repeater is not an option stick with VHF in this application for best range.