I've been to the Dark Side (GE radios!) and it's interesting

NodrogCop · Post by **NodrogCop** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:43 pm

chipjumper wrote:Anyone using or know anyone using MA/COM OpenSky??? A county I used to work for is supposed to launch a OpenSky network spring '05. I'm going to try to influence mine to do the same.

I would think long and hard about that one. PA has adopted OpenSky is it's digital statwide system. It was bid out in 1999, was supposed to be online in the spring of '01....and we're still waiting. I work in one of two counties (that I know of), that piggybacked the system. We too, are still waiting. The last I had heard, 2007 was when they were going to load users on the system. We'll see. To be fair, some of it is not M/A Com's fault. However, most of it, I think is.

Please note that the system has never been tested for a public safety application. It started for use of data only - and is very good at that. PA state police are using that now, but there's no idea when voice will happen.

For more, see this:
http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=#161653

and this: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=opensky

Gordon

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:08 pm

You can create profiles with global personality sets for conventional and EDACS systems so any programing of any other radio simply becomes a drag and drop operation.

NIfty feature is you can CLONE from any radio to any other radio.

The software is smart enough to just close the features that are the same across the various radio types without causing conflicts.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:31 pm

Alan wrote:
The only thing that's at all hairy about the EDACS programming process is that rather than enter a few control channels and that's all, on an EDACS system you have to enter every channel for a given site in a list, and that list has to have the channels in the correct order. Screw it up and the radio will miss calls. But when it's right, it never changes and you just keep the channel info in the data pool. No big deal.
Do you mean that everytime I add a channel or have to move ones between site that I have to reprogram every radio in the fleet with the new channel list?
That is insane. The cost of that work alone would keep one or 2 full time techs busy in our systems. We add channels a couple of tiimes a year, and swap channels as required for system loading and other issues.

Yes, that's exactly right. Unlike Motorola trunking radios, which ALL have the entire 800 MHz bandplan (assuming we're talking about an 800 model, or 900 as well) programmed into them in their firmware and only need to be told which channel number to go to by the control channel, GE-etc trunking radios have to be told the exact sequence of channels that are in a given system. The frequencies and the order they're arranged in must be correct or the radio will miss calls, because the control channel only tells the radio to go to the Xth channel in the list. Motorola's controller tells the radio to go to channel no. X in the standardized bandplan.

Adding or shuffling channels in an EDACS site means every radio that uses that site must be reprogrammed. But it's not so bad, because once the new trunked group frequency sets are in place, reprogramming each radio is a trivial matter and you of course get to bill the system owner 24 to 45 dollars for each radio programmed. It's a nice chunk of change for the time spent.

Elroy

Lord Windeshmere · Post by **Lord Windeshmere** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:55 am

Never done an EDACS radio before. If I wanted to monitor a local system that uses a non-encrypted EDACS trunked system is there anything special about programming a radio, say an M-RK, to properly monitor the system? TIA.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:08 am

No, just get all the system data right!

The setup for an edacs system is SIMPLE.

Each site needs to have its correct logical channel list, as mentioned above.

The software wants a site number for each site. In a three site system, it'll be 1, 2, or 3.

There is no system ID like there is on a Motorola system. Just the site number.

No fleet map or size code is necessary.

All you need is to have the logical channel lists, and the talkgroup numbers that you want to listen to.

The software allows you to save sets of talkgroups by a name, and also allows you to save the logical channel lists as well. From that point, it's a matter of selecting the channel list and then adding a talkgroup list to it,
and setting up the personalities by pointing and clicking.

It's simpler to do it than it is to explain it without visual aids.

Just one thing to remember: When in the group sets screen, on the group numbers section, you MUST go through EVERY group and make sure that you UNCHECK the TRANSMIT and CALLS boxes, which are checked by default.

One more thing, and it's very important: From the main personality window, in the options tab, go to "power up options" and make sure that AUTO LOGIN is DISABLED.

Elroy

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:38 am

I assume "Auto Login" is the same as "Auto Affiliate"?

-Mike

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:33 pm

You assume correctly.

Elroy

Chrisjz · Post by **Chrisjz** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:54 am

Programmer R15C is now the latest release and they have made several changes to the EDACS side of things. One major addition is the ability to program an EDACS radio for EA (Extended Addressing). The maximum LID with EA is now 1048575. This only works if your radio is feature encrypted for it and the system you are using or monitoring is capable via newer firmware.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:37 am

Just found that out the hard way... Bought up several MPDs awhile back to hand out as scanners. Was scratching my head in disbelief when the MPD continued to TX even though I told it not to on a per TG basis. Had to slightly modify the PTT's to put an end to all of that.

Interesting. I have an M-PD here with full keypad/display, etc, and no way to program or examine the codeplug but it has about 10 channels programmed, and it will TX on every channel except the one that says 'weather'. The display flashes and the radio beeps if keyed on that channel. Has it been modded?
Curious.

1 Adam 12 · Post by **1 Adam 12** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:19 am

On the conventional radios just like Motorola you can zero or inhibit the the TX, and thats what your MPD is set to on the weather channel. But the trunking is a different story .

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:24 am

ar-har... gotcha. Thanks!

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:06 am

On an M-PD in trunking mode, there is no way to really and truly disable the transmit function. You can turn off auto-login and auto-affiliate, and turn off icalls, etc. and you're almost there. But to finish the job you have to block off the PTT switch function. I used a hand punch and cut out the middle of a small washer so it would surround the PTT switch itself, under the plastic PTT button. But even then, you have to be careful not to connect a speaker-mic if its PTT switch works. That'll still allow it to transmit if the PTT is pressed on it.

Elroy

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:02 pm

Hello.

The thing that is really neat about the GE radios is that the alignment information is apart from the channel info', so you can play with the "codeplug" all you want and not corrupt the alignment.
The current RSS is expensive indeed, but not that hard to get.
The only real fault of an EDAC radio is in how the encryption is in the radio.
San Antonio has a pro-voice system that I have hacked big time.
I got a "press radio".
This radio has all the codes a crypto keys like any other radio, but should be locked out of some channels (fleet/subfleet).
I would have a hard time with the crypto, but have no trouble reprogramming the radio for everything.
I have since learned how to copy the key from one radio to another.
True, not everybody can do this, but I am sure that I am not alone.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:45 pm

When I first started cop work in 1980 I cut my teeth on Motorola Micors. Eventually used Syntors. I have used HT220s, MT1000s, HT1000s, Visars, etc. When I came to my current agency eleven years ago we had GE RANGRs. I certainly did NOT like them as well as Syntors. A few months ago I was given a GE Delta. I got the okay from my Captain to use it as the main radio in my new unmarked car. I have learned alot about these in the last month or so. Mine is configured as 4 modes of 32 channels each. I love dual priority. Mine is set up so the selected transmit channel is the absolute priority, but the second priority is user selectable. I broke the county up four ways so that I have a different mode for each "quadrant" of the county. This works out very well for me. I have several amateur repeaters as well as sheriff, police, fire, EMS, parks, highway, etc. Now I find out that these can be modified to be front panel programmable. It looks like we will be making a modification soon to make this happen.

Jim1348 · Post by **Jim1348** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:13 pm

FYI, I have had the modification done to make the GE Delta front panel programmable. This works out very nice!

Johnny Galaga · Post by **Johnny Galaga** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:52 pm

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:01 pm

A lot of folks on this board obviously use Motorola radios for Ham use. Keep in mind that the GE Windoz programming software is in excess of $2,000 (versus $265 for Motorola CPS). As to the cost of GE radios, they are virtually priced identical to Motorola, including the high end digital variety, so there is no savings to be had.

larry

n_zero_ndp · Post by **n_zero_ndp** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:16 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:A lot of folks on this board use Motorola raios for Ham use. Keep in mind that the GE Windoz programming software is in excess of $2,000 (versus $265 for Motorola CPS). As to the cost of GE radios, they are virtually priced identical to Motorola, including the high end digital variety, so there is no savings to be had.

larry

Mother /\/\ has a different CPS for every freakin' different radio line. M/A-COM has one programming software for all radios that are currently supported or just lost support within the last few years.....

There are actually 2 versions of ProGrammer available:
EDACS & Conventional
Conventional ONLY (I assume this version is cheaper since it will not work with the higher end EDACS stuff)

I'd rather pay for 1 software instead of 10 or more

n_zero_ndp · Post by **n_zero_ndp** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:21 pm

Johnny Galaga wrote:
Elroy Jetson wrote:On an M-PD in trunking mode, there is no way to really and truly disable the transmit function. You can turn off auto-login and auto-affiliate, and turn off icalls, etc. and you're almost there. But to finish the job you have to block off the PTT switch function. I used a hand punch and cut out the middle of a small washer so it would surround the PTT switch itself, under the plastic PTT button. But even then, you have to be careful not to connect a speaker-mic if its PTT switch works. That'll still allow it to transmit if the PTT is pressed on it.

Elroy
Are you sure about that ? If I remeber correctly, the transmit can be disabled on a per-talkgroup basis in the software. I have an EDACS M-PA, and I was able to disable the transmit in the software, so I didn't have to make any physical modifications.

You are correct on the MPA, but not the MPD...... different animal

Even though the MPD is told not to TX in the software, it still will unless the PTT button is physically disabled. Even worse, if the PTT button is disabled it can still TX with a speaker mic or from an MVA with mic......

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:32 pm

Most Hams on this board are not worried about buying 10 different sets of CPS. Typically, they will buy one or two, such as the $395 ASTRO CPS that handles the ASTRO portable and mobile radio. That's a heck of a lot less than $2,000!

larry

rzimpala · Post by **rzimpala** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:42 am

I'm familiar with OpenSky

phrawg · Post by **phrawg** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:49 am

You just answered a 2 year old post

Have not seen
Elroy here in AAAAAAAaaaages . And welcome to the board.
Do a lot of reading in the other areas also and you will find a
vast wealth of information. Specifically suggest our rules
and operating policies and then peruse the model
specific information section. Phrawg

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:12 am

He probably wanted that one post so his account wouldn't be deleted.

rzimpala · Post by **rzimpala** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:13 am

Thanks. I've worked at GE/MOTO/RCA/EFJ service shops. Been in the biz since 1985

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:08 am

fireradio wrote:I just learned that for some reason, my county recently awarded a contract to a local EF Johnson dealer for portable radios. We have an 800 MHz 3600 baud Astro system.

Anyway, that prompted me to check out EF Johnson's P25 portables ... the 5100 series. Aside from a slightly unconventional appearance, they look like decent radios. I wonder how much they go for compared to an XTS. And from what I can tell, they can do encryption out of the box (no module required)!

With all these alternatives out there, I think M may run into trouble in the future if they don't shape up a little bit.

the Army is buying the EFJ 5100 as a replacement for the PRC-127, calling it the PRC-127EF

We used them in Afghanistan, great radios. We beat the aboslute crap out of them and had no problems. They use most of the jedi series acessories and batteries.

The only issue I had was that the military models are supposed to be keypad programmable, and while the first couple I got were I had 50 more come that were not. A quick email to EFJ and they fedexed me the Software, keypad programmable codeplug, and cables right to Bagram for me.

I would not have any issues issuing a contract for the 5100's for any kind of PS use, and I want to find a couple in VHF and UHF for myself.

phrawg · Post by **phrawg** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:44 pm

I absolutely agree on the 5100's. I have a small quantity of them
in the fleet I maintain and even though our rail system seems to
have a propensity for using them for wheel ckocks, they have
done well so far. Beware Ma /\/\ !!!!!!!!! Phrawg

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:49 am

motorola_otaku wrote:He probably wanted that one post so his account wouldn't be deleted.

Funny guy. If you read the posts you'd see that even zero-post accounts don't get deleted unless they contain www links to spam sites. Not a single 'real' user gets deleted.

Todd

ffexpCP · Post by **ffexpCP** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:36 pm

rzimpala wrote:I'm familiar with OpenSky

I'm sorry to hear that.

.

Post by **xmo** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:01 pm

OpenSky AKA BlueSky

Watch "You paid for it so where is it?"

http://www.todaystmj4.com/_content/news ... y_6474.asp

ffexpCP · Post by **ffexpCP** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:30 pm

You should look at Oakland County, MI for an Opensky horror story.

From what I know, the original cost around was around 33 million. Some reports given show coverage of about 60%.

They were expecting it be be done by 2003.

I've been to the Dark Side (GE radios!) and it's interesting

ge tx no mo?

MPD

durrr... shudda node dat...

GE RSS.

I've been to the Dark Side (GE radios!) and it's interesting

Front Panel Programmable GE Delta SX

MACOM

MACOM

Re: MACOM