Motorola "Atitude"

[giguchan]

Hello all,
I would like to know what is meant by "atitude" I have never felt that Moto is giving me "tude" at all. I have cdm's and ht1550's and use and program them often. I call them whenever i have a stupid question to ask them. they answer it. when i had trouble setting up my MOL online acct -again they walked me through that too. If i have a programming question to ask(which might come after not programming for a while) i call them and i'm on my way.... at least when i call them for a change i get a nice easy to understand american accent.I have a few countries under my belt and not a stranger to accents- but it is nice to hear one that you recognize without squinting through the phone.I am talking about Motorola, so if you want to come at me with other radio manufactures that is another conversation.
I also wanted to mention the quality.... since my first moto radio a maxtrac/SS3's i have not noticed and quality issues- now perhaps i'm not looking in the right places- are we talking about repaires? business practices? or other issues? i am eager to know what radios people are talking about when they say the quality is "not what it used to be"
I would put any old moto up against any of the new "typical" radios that people use for hamming anyday of the week...
Gig.

[wavetar]

When people talk about the quality, they are comparing the new models, be it portable or mobile, against what they replaced. For instance, the Waris series was meant to replace the Jedi series. The original housings were not as rugged or water resistant as the Jedi, so new housings were designed a couple of years later. Now, physically they're not that much behind the Jedi. Unfortunately, Motorola released the radios with 100's of 'bugs' which have required numerous firmware upgrades over the years to fix. There was also a big snafu initially with the antenna matching circuitry in the VHF units, causing poor performance. There's also the fact new portables, and even mobiles, no longer use nice large metal encased & properly heat-sinked RF power amplifier modules. They now use small, mostly LDMOS transistors with virtually no heat-sinking at all, so we've seen a big spike in the number of P.A. failures across all new models.

The above is just a single example (Waris vs Jedi) of the quality issues. There are many others that can be pointed out.

When it comes to 'attitude', it is mostly about their 'corporate attitude', not so much the individual employees you might deal with. It can mean the "make money at all costs" attitude, which leads to things like laying off hundreds of long-term employees at the Elgin repair depot so they can move the operations to Mexico at a fraction of the cost. Of course, the training for the replacement workers was minimal at best, so the former world class repair depot is now a joke. This showcases the fact Motorola only cares about pleasing shareholders, not about their customers or employees.

Many people don't like the attitude of "you don't need the programming software, you can just take your radio to the dealer" when it comes to trying to simply purchase a copy of the Waris CPS. People don't like being told what they can or cannot purchase, especially without good reason.

There's lots of other examples. I'll let others chime in on their own personal pet peeves.

Todd

[OCSD117]

I think wavetar hit it on the head. I think that the attitude also relates to the fact that for a long time they really had little competition, mainly because they made solid radios that needed little repair. The other thing that bothers me is the price. I went to my chief and asked why we carried Crappy Kenwoods, Which I don't I carry My own personally bought Moto, his reply was why am I going to buy /|/\otorolas when i can get like 2 kenwoods for the price. Being that we are a small department on a small budget it made sense. However before he was chief they used Motos. This attitude from corporate says we are the best and if you want a quality radio your gonna buy it from us. I personally would love an Astro saber III or an XTS, but simply can't afford to spend 1000+ dollars on a XTS. So I stick with the Jedi/Waris series that I got used. Unfortunately for Moto there are a bunch of Radio manufacturers trying to break into the public safety market. I know of one department who uses mainly Icoms because they are cheap and they have not had to repair them. Anyway this along with what Wavetar said I think are the "tude" problem you ask about!

[/\/\y 2 cents]

well said Todd

I think it goes back to they want to restrict access to knowledge and then turn around and use the tactic to charge more money because it leaves people in the dark as to getting an understanding.. People get hip to their equipment and want to know more (how to program it, how to service it without proprietary tools, etc.) and Motorola doesn't like this. Motorola does not like this because the days of the single use portable communication device is basically over for all but very few applications (even those are defecting daily) and once you learn how they make these networks you see that portable computers with built in radio modems which are iP adressable will swallow these radios because networks are already built (EVDO,EDGE,GPS,WiFi,WiMAX,MEsh, etc.) that will handle the calls and resolve to any adress in the world providing for unlimted range. Hence the reason they bought Symbol. The next decade is going to be very interesting. Motorola will lose their identity as a maker of end user products due to dilution and focus on the components, hence why they spun off their semiconducter/IC business and it is now called freescale.

[phrawg]

I think a lot of it is as I stated in another thread,
the "we are god of radio and if it is not made by us
and sold to you at an exorbant price it is no good! "
and even to the point of ther sales end saying no
moto brand, well, yours wont work with it or we will convolute
the process of making it work so bad you can't afford it.
well, EXCUSE MEE !!, but I thought a watt was a watt
and a microvolt was a microvolt and provided that they
had the same antennas and mics connected to them
a radio is a radio is a radio ! The rest is whistles and
bells amd smoke and mirrors ! I know this is maybe
an overly simplistic look at it but the principle is rock
solid about which I speak. The attitude comes in when
they try to pass this B-$#!^ off on technical folks
like us here on this board. I believe that /\/\'s
days are numbered if they persist in copping this
attitude. Thats my take on it all anyway. Phrawg

[Bat2way]

Motorola's problem is simply their arrogance towards anyone not "in the fold". So many independents back in the day would have been glad to sell the Radius brand when it came out, but were deemed insigificant by Motorola and the MSS's were granted an "exclusive territory" to market the product. Anyone outside of the 60196 zip code could figure this was a boo-boo.

How many dealers then started selling Kenwood, ICOM, etc.? This short-sightedness sold a lot of Radius product, BUT lost so much more unrecoverable market share in the end. Look at the big picture, if you manufacture radios to sell, then simply sell radios.

You could go on and on with this, but everybody already knows the deal.

[440roadrunner]

Motorola can have a pretty negative attitude towards their own shops, too. One really good (bad?) example, is that a few years ago, I helped install what Motorola then had, the SRX/Centralink 911 phone switches. We were out of town on a job, trying to get the thing set up. Travel time, and time itself, were a huge issue. We had trouble with the system installation discs, which were on floppies. Motorola could NOT get it through their heads, that we needed a replacement set, and that there was no system ID because there WAS no system yet. We finally called our own shop---there was a second system there bound for a second job--and had our guys send out the software for the second system. When we got back to town a week later, we finally got it ironed out.

It seemed to me that the fact that (at the time) we were a well established service shop had no bearing on Motorola's attitude.

[jackhackett]

Looks like 3500 people are about to get an 'attitude' adjustment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16707418/

[HumHead]

CHICAGO - Motorola Inc. CEO Ed Zander said Friday the cell-phone maker will cut 3,500 jobs...

Does anything more really need to be said?

[escomm]

CHICAGO - Motorola Inc. CEO Ed Zander said Friday the cell-phone maker will cut 3,500 jobs...

Do anything more really need to be said?

If you read the article you'll see Networks & Enterprise actually did OK, but the handset division is what rained on the parade. It's pretty a pretty dire situation when revenue goes up 10-15% and earnings go down by half.

[n7maq]

He is another example. A friend who is a tech for a county shop with a multi site (under 15 sites) SmartZone system. Well I don’t know the number, I would assume the have at lest a few thousand subscriber units on the system. They have some MTS2000’s left in the mix, and they were still using an older version of CPS, as the subscription had expired not to long ago. They sent a unit into the Mexirola depot for repair; of course they used the latest CPS. So now the county had to spend another $300.00 or so on CPS so they could reprogram the radio.

Jim.

Here is a short story that I have had for some time, I think it relates very good to the question at hand…. Enjoy,

IF MOTOROLA SOLD PAINT...



Customer: Hi. How much is your paint?
Motorola Salesman: Well, sir, that all depends on quite a lot of
things.

Customer: Can you give me a guess? Is there an average price?
Motorola Salesman: Our lowest price is $12 a gallon, and we have 60
different prices
up to $200 a gallon.

Customer: What's the difference in the paint?
Motorola Salesman: Oh, there isn't any difference; it's all the same
paint.

Customer: Well, then I'd like some of that $12 paint.
Motorola Salesman: When do you intend to use the paint?

Customer: I want to paint tomorrow. It's my day off.
Motorola Salesman: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.

Customer: When would I have to paint to get the $12 paint?
Motorola Salesman: You would have to start very late at night in
about 3 weeks. But
you will have to agree to start painting before Friday of that week
and
continue painting until at least Sunday.

Customer: You've got to be kidding!
Motorola Salesman: I'll check and see if we have any paint available.
Customer: You have shelves FULL of paint! I can see it!

Motorola Salesman: But it doesn't mean that we have paint available.
We sell only a
certain number of gallons on any given weekend. Oh, and by the way,
the
price per gallon just went to $16. We don't have any more $12 paint.

Customer: The price went up as we were talking?
Motorola Salesman: Yes, sir. We change the prices and rules hundreds
of times a day,
and since you haven't actually walked out of the store with your paint
yet, we just decided to change. I suggest you purchase your paint as
soon as possible. How many gallons do you want?

Customer: Well, maybe five gallons. Make that six, so I'll have
enough.
Motorola Salesman: Oh no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy paint
and don't use it,
there are penalties and possible confiscation of the paint you already
have.

Customer: WHAT?
Motorola Salesman: We can sell enough paint to do your kitchen,
bathroom, hall and
north bedroom, but if you stop painting before you do the bedroom, you
will lose your remaining gallons of paint.

Customer: What does it matter whether I use all the paint? I already
paid you for it!
Motorola Salesman: We make plans based upon the idea that all our
paint is used,
every drop. If you don't, it causes us all sorts of problems.

Customer: This is crazy!! I suppose something terrible happens if I
don't keep painting until after Saturday night!
Motorola Salesman: Oh yes! Every gallon you bought automatically
becomes the $200
paint.

Customer: But what are all these, "Paint on sale from $10 a liter"
signs?
Motorola Salesman: Well that's for our budget paint. It only comes in
half-gallons.
One $5 half-gallon will do half a room. The second half-gallon to
complete the room is $20. None of the cans have labels, some are empty
and there are no refunds, even on the empty cans.

Customer: Forget this! I'll buy what I need somewhere else!
Motorola Salesman: I don't think so, sir. You may be able to buy
paint for your
bathroom and bedrooms, and your kitchen and dining room from someone
else, but you won't be able to paint your connecting hall and
stairway from anyone but us. And I should point out, sir, that if you
paint in only one direction, it will be $300 a gallon.

Customer: I thought your most expensive paint was $200!
Motorola Salesman: That's if you paint around the room to the point
at which you
started. A hallway is different.

Customer: And if I buy $200 paint for the hall, but only paint in one
direction, you'll confiscate the remaining paint.
Motorola Salesman: No, we'll charge you an extra use fee plus the
difference on your
next gallon of paint. But I believe you're getting it now, sir.

Customer: You're insane!
Motorola Salesman: Thanks for painting with Motorola.

[MTS2000des]

ever since zig zag Zander has taken over the company, they've gone to crap. a decade ago I would have laughed at the "big three" jap radio makers...today their product line is as solid as the high tier Motorola radios (XTS/XTL) and priced much lower. They have just as good a network of dealers, and factory depots in the USA (not Mexico). As a matter of fact, Kenwood Communications US HQ is around 25 miles away from me on the other side of Atlanta. Never had any "attitude" getting RSS/CPS from them, and the support staff reminds me of what Motorola was 20 years ago. Let's hope they don't get too big for their britches.

I've been enjoying my 90 series Kenwood's for a while now and they're every bit as robust as Spectra/MTS2000's are.

so zig zag :o canned another 3500 Americans. Shocker...

[giguchan]

Hello all,
Thanks for all of the informative replies.I had no idea that everybody felt so strongly about this.It's good that everyone has their own experiences that they can share.
I will continue to use Moto gear, as i'm sure that most of you will. I'm also sure those of you who already jumped ship will continue to stay your course.
It's too bad that QC has dipped in the past years, I guess it's the same with everything these days....

thanks Gig

[AEC]

As many here have pointed out, the quality issue is a BIG deal to all, and since Kenwood IS as good as Circle-M, my next new radios will be Kenwoods.

Rss from Circle-M is overpriced and over protected as if they are the sole brain-drain of the software industry, while Kenwood WILL sell ANYBODY RSS for their models, anytime.

B/K-Relm is the same way, they do NOT protect and guard their RSS like Circle-M, and will gladly sell whatever you need to you, but WITHOUT the over-inflated costs included.

No wonder Kenwood is outselling Motorola.

No wonder the forestry service is buying B/K-Relm radios over Circle-M.

They don't sell arrogance as a product line like Circle-M does, and they DON'T lay off their entire plant to make a buck like Circle-M does.

So....*cough* who's better here??

Motorola also DEMANDS your customer lists so they can cut you OUT of the loop and sell direct to YOUR customers, whom YOU have built out of trust.

They did this to me and I stopped handling ALL Circle-M gear from then on!

I'll be damned to hand over MY customers to Motorola as part of their idea on how best to serve MY customers....how dare they!

THAT is the arrogance of Motorola!

THAT is the reason many buy Kenwoods and Icoms!

STOP screwing your customers Circle-M, and you MAY see some growth, but until that happens, EXPECT to LOSE MONEY and faith in your products as you appease to the shareholders only!

This tactic as as bad as handing over your bank account numbers to buy a hunting license!

[MTS2000des]

people say I'm crazy, but we'll see if this is true in 5-8 years from now. I think the Motorola we all know and love is slowly eroding away from what it used to be. They've sold off all their big product lines (semiconductors, pagers, etc) and I don't think it will be long until Motorola is just a name, the rights for sale to the highest bidder. It has happened with GE, RCA, Zenith and so many other once great American companies. The greedy turd blossom predatory CEO's like Ed Zander rape and pillage what they can, moving on from one company to another, like a serial rapist or other form of predatory pond scum, draining what they can from each victim.

I would be shocked if one day Motorola's brilliant leader decides to sell-off RPG. I can see it now "Motorola...by KENWOOD" then after 5 years of leasing the rights to the name and circle-M logo, they quietly go away. This happens after 90 percent of RPG's workforce is laid off, and only the other 10 percent are kept around to oversee the "merger", then they're given the boot.

It's the downfall of a company once these things happen. Like dead shopping malls that once were filled with storefronts, the big anchors pull out, soon everyone follows. It still kinda pains me today to be carrying Kenwood radios after all these years, but Motorola just isn't the leader they used to be in radio communications. Since Zander took over they just haven't provided the same level of service and quality they were once famous for, and Kenwood, Icom and even Vertex (though their service depot makes Moto's Mexico depot shine on it's worst day in comparison) are offering stronger product lines at less cost than ever before.

[giguchan]

WELL!
I guess once again i cannot argue with that logic.
Well, I'm glad that only ONE local FD jumped ship... but they jumped back again when the board changed. I guess some folks like what they have used over the years.... and dont want to change no matter what the cost.I even heard that the NYPD has a few vertex's around... Perhaps that number will get bigger who knows... I cannot think of ONE CEO who does not want to please his shareholders- I could be wrong but i think that is what a CEO is supposed to do, mostof the time it is the customer who gets screwed.... So with the buying power the customer goes elseware...
thanks for all of the replies this has been very enlighting for me...
Just wish i could spell.
Gig