Is Motorola still releasing new firmware for Astro Sabers?

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:07 pm

The title says all I want to ask.

Elroy

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:24 pm

The XTS3k and Astro Saber use the same host/dsp for 1 meg boards so it is still out there for that. Can't say anything about 512k boards though.

Jason

Post by **batdude** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:25 pm

firmware for the astro saber is compatible with the XTS3000.... and since the 3000 is still being updated, even for rebanding... the answer to your question is yes - sorta.

"conventional" firmware is i think at the end of the road at 7.25.xx host / 8.03.03 dsp

"trunking/rebanding capable" firmware is at something like 7.71.xx / 8.03.03 dsp

this of course assumes a 1 meg radio. AFAIK, moto tells 512k radio users they are stuck and "can't upgrade" to IMBE (which is BS, just Host 5/DSP 6)

doug

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:33 pm

I recently sent off my 800MHz. ASTRO Saber III to the El Paso Depot and it has returned with the latest firmware of R07.71.00 and DSP R08.03.03

The radio is indeed a 1-Meg, however several Bat Laber's advised me that it wasn't, regardless of what I mentioned in my postings regarding the radios specs.

According to MOL, the ASTRO Saber's are supported until 2008, after that, who knows where support is going to go???

Post by **batdude** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:11 pm

ahhhhh...

BUT WAS YOUR RADIO A 1 MEG RADIO **BEFORE** IT WENT TO THE DEPOT????

the depot does not replace 512k boards with 512k boards.... there are none to be had - stock was depleted YEARS ago..........

so - if you have a basket case astro saber - this is the way to go.....(mexidepot)

doug

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:52 pm

The board was a 1-meg prior to shipping it to the depot.

d119 · Post by **d119** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:53 pm

I have been told by Systems Support that the XTS3000 firmware is NOT compatible with the Astro Saber.

So whats the story?

If it's compatible, well, I got 1 flash left on my ibutton... and I know where it's going...

Someone let me know if my XTS 3000 Firmware CD (7.71.00) will work on my Astro Saber.

Thanks!

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:59 am

Is it one of the newer i-buttons for the latest cps? If so read this...

This new version (R05.02.00) contains the following enhancement:
- 'Refresh Key'. This feature verifies DSP type and Host type
in CVN File and Radio for Refresh Keys.

I'm not sure what it verifies, and it may still work, but they issued new cvn files and i-buttons with this cps.

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:11 pm

I'm out of the loop here...

What' s an ibutton?

HOW do you get firmware to flash into radios?

How does the current flashport system operate?

Elroy

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:34 pm

its basiccly the same as before but now it plugs into the parrallel port or the USB port instead of the Smart Rib

firmware you just order for 75 dollars but you need a smart rib and the latest CPS
Or send it off to Motorola for repair and it should come back with the latest

d119 · Post by **d119** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:15 pm

So does XTS 3000 R07.71.00 work on an Astro Saber?

Post by **xmo** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:38 pm

That is the question of the hour.

Let's say you have an old VSELP Astro Saber. Theoretically, M wouldn't upgrade the firmware in that to IMBE for just $75.

Now let's say we have a 1 meg Astro Saber VOCON. Let's also say we might have a leftover XTS3000 flash with sort of recent firmware including IMBE.

Now, suppose you sort of .. ahhh .. convinced the Astro Saber that it was really an XTS, then flashed it with the new firmware, then put its original codeplug back in.

Would it be a happy camper?

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:52 pm

You guys are killing me, lol. An astro saber and xts3k are the same radio as far as host/dsp goes. CPS WILL check the flashcode against the dsp upgrade and also the current dsp. It has lots of checks and balances. Careful with I dsp though, Ive done one successfully but hosed another one. Both passed the CPS checks but one gave a fail 2/90 for some reason which had to be resolved the hard way. No Im not going to explain that one.

Jason

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:19 pm

Okay, I have two astro sabers 1 model 1 uhf and 1 model 3 vhf, both host 3.32.00 dsp n5.01.03. i have an older i-button from before this. "'Refresh Key'. This feature verifies DSP type and Host type in CVN File and Radio for Refresh Keys." Its was from some astro 25 portable firmware refreshes, and has 31 flashes left on it. If I were able to get the cvn files for a semi current version of firmware and had the smartrib/cable and using cps older than r5.02. Would I be able to get my vselp sabers to new enough firmware to do imbe?

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:30 pm

I can tell you right now it won't upgrade your radios until the radio flashcode is changed to IMBE. It will toss an error saying its the incorrect firmware or dsp for that type of radio. Not to mention you must be 100 PERCENT SURE it a 1 meg radio.

Jason

d119 · Post by **d119** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:01 pm

OK well everything I'm reading says that my XTS 3000 R07.71.00 upgrade CD will work on my Astro Saber III which is equipped with IMBE operation. I have 1 flash left on my ibutton, so I'll give it a try and report back.

I hope I don't brick my radio... But y'all are saying that Host/DSP between XTS3000 and Astro Saber is the same (as far as IMBE-equipped radios go), so we'll find out for sure here soon.

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:50 pm

I hope you have N dsp.

Jason

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:57 pm

My VHF ASIII has...

R07.70.00
N08.03.03

1 meg, flashcode 599108-1C5E00-1

I guess that's pretty recent?

d119 · Post by **d119** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:16 am

AFAIK, the latest for Astro Saber is:

Host R07.71.00
DSP N08.03.03

My astro saber has:

Host R07.02.00
DSP N07.something.something (can't remember).

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:22 am

You can use the current xts3k/asaber file to upgrade urs no problem then.

Jason

d119 · Post by **d119** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:02 pm

And I did. My Astro Saber III UHF "S" split is now at:

R07.71.00
N08.03.03

Using CVN6236M which is labelled for XTS3000. Flashed through no problem.

I wonder what the latest version that's compatible with 512k Astro Sabers is?

I have a 512k VHF Astro Saber that has an IMBE flash....

Note, doing these flash upgrades in CPS results in the radio being untouchable in previous versions. The two portables I did are now CPS only because of this... Guess it's time to make the switch whether I like it or not, as I didnt save my codeplugs.

Post by **alex** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:38 am

d119 wrote:Note, doing these flash upgrades in CPS results in the radio being untouchable in previous versions. The two portables I did are now CPS only because of this... Guess it's time to make the switch whether I like it or not, as I didnt save my codeplugs.

I remember reading something about this. It is mainly due to the fact that with the re-banding options not also being present in the DOS software, it probably also requires a codeplug structure change which is drastic enough in the memory mapping to prevent shoving the s-rec's back in the radio. This is of course, a guess, but I remember seeing documentation or hearing through the grapevine that this would be the case with re-banding.

-Alex

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:42 am

Here's an interested note on the wonderful Motorola Depot in El Paso, TX...

I sent off another Motorola ASTRO Saber III 800MHz. (1-Meg.) radio to the depot a few weeks ago and here's what I got back. Can anyone make any sense of this???

Radio sent to depot with:

Host: R05.60.04
DSP: I06.05.02
Flashcode: 540008-000400-3
UCM Installed: DVP-XL with firmware: R02.02.00
***Worked fine with CPS latest revision***

Radio returned from depot with:

Host: AP_R03.36.03
DSP: I05.01.07
Flashcode: 000008-000000-2
UCM: Nothing Displayed
***Crashes CPS software as well***

***When radio boots up and you press the button 5 times, it only displays the model, serial, and firmware revisions. No flashcode is displayed and the screen goes through very quickly.

I currently have an open case with the depot but of coarse I have not heard anything back yet.

Post by **xmo** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:48 am

Regarding the previous post where the radio came back with old firmware.

Some time back we did an upgrade of a group of Astro Sabers from VSELP to IMBE. Since the radios were all old and presumeably had 512K, Motorola sold us all new 1 meg VOCON's. They all came with old firmware. We had to actually flash the new firmware into them. I was surprised that they didn't simply come with the right stuff preloaded, but apparently that's the way they do it. They put old stuff in the VOCON when it is manufactured and then it gets the appropriate firmware put in for each application using the flash process after installation in the target radio.

Apparently your radio needed a new VOCON and the depot dude must have forgotten to upgrade the host and dsp in the new board.

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:03 am

I appreciate your comments. However, the radio did NOT need a new vocon, unless they caused an issue with it. This radio, prior to going to the depot was a fully functional IMBE 1-Meg. SmartZone radio. All they were suppose to do was a alignment and firmware refresh to make the radio "rebanding compliant". I am sending the radio back to them today so we'll see what happens this time. It sounds like they did not follow normal proceedure and make an archive of the radio prior to servicing because if they had, I would have retained my original programming information as well. I did not.

Post by **xmo** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:01 pm

Earlier in this thread I asked the question: could you upgrade an Astro Saber firmware with a leftover XTS flash?

You can!

We started with a VSELP VHF Astro Saber. We then "convinced" the radio that it was an 800 MHz XTS3000 with the exact model number and flashcode that matched the target configuration of an flash dongle we had with a couple left over flashes on it.

We then flashed the radio to put in the newer firmware. That worked fine [although it took some experimentation to find compatible versions of codeplugs, and programming software]

After the flash upgrade, we then put the correct model and serial number VHF codeplug back into the radio.

Perfection! A working radio with recent firmware - upgraded from VSELP to IMBE - working fine.

Some tips:

The flash we used was the original dongle based type, not the iButton version.

The radio got very unhappy about being the wrong band [FAIL 001]. When we used a codeplug with radio lock enabled, the radio asked for a password before the point of giving all those anoying error beeps. Much nicer!

The host & DSP we used was pre-rebanding [who cares for VHF] so there was no problem putting an old codeplug back in after the upgrade.

The Astro Saber VOCON must be 1 Meg, i.e. NTN7749 version F or newer.

WARNING!

Try this upgrade at your own risk!

[We had a couple old leftover 1 Meg VOCON's on hand so we didn't put anything at risk.]

[Edit] P.S. The Host we put in was R07.xx.xx and the DSP was N08.xx.xx; also - don't forget the radio should be aligned following this procedure.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:45 pm

This is the kind of updates we needed for the New newbie guide, hopefully if someone is working on one they will see it fit to include this info.

Post by **valleycomm** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:05 pm

It seems pretty clear through information provided by Jason and others in this thread that the first-generation ASTRO portables (ASTRO saber and XTS 3000) utilize the same HOST and DSP firmware combinations.

For those still pondering any differences, I've removed the host/dsp code from the flash ROMs in 1M ASTRO Sabers, and compared it to matching firmware versions removed from the vocoder and command boards in an XTS 3000, and it's identical.

As for 512K radios, they are quite capable of IMBE, regardless of what Motorola or others might suggest. There is one major performance-limiting factor however; the 512K vocon (Digital Saber/Spectra) can hold a maximum host code of R05.60.04/R09.60.04, which was released in 1999--three years before Motorola incorporated subscriber-based audio-gain-control into firmware versions >R07.01.00/R11.01.00. DSP firmware of >I07.xx.xx/N07.xx.xx is also required for subscriber AGC support.

Although a radio with a 512K vocon does support ASTRO/CAI operation, the transmit/receive audio is massively inferior to that which is reproduced with current version host/dsp firmware combinations, utilizing the subscriber audio AGC feature.

Simply put, ASTRO CAI at 512K, sucks.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:35 pm

valleycomm wrote: I've removed the host/dsp code from the flash ROMs in 1M ASTRO Sabers, and compared it to matching firmware versions removed from the vocoder and command boards in an XTS 3000, and it's identical.

Was this done by removing the ic's and reading the code, or did you find a way to communicate with the chips while still in the radio? Thanks for any info you care to provide.

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:08 pm

As an update, I was able to get the depot to admit their mistake and they corrected the issue without any pain at all. I received the radio back from the depot today with the following:

Host: R07.71.00
DSP: I08.03.03
UCM: R02.12 (DVP-XL)
Flashcode: 540008-0004000-3

The depot was VERY good to work with on this issue and I had little troubles getting it resolved. As a note, this is the most recent and probably the last firmware update for the ASTRO Saber and XTS3000 series radios.

Thank you all for your comments, and as I thought, this was always a 1-meg. radio with a legitimate flashcode as I had previously stated.

gdubzakjr wrote:Here's an interested note on the wonderful Motorola Depot in El Paso, TX...

I sent off another Motorola ASTRO Saber III 800MHz. (1-Meg.) radio to the depot a few weeks ago and here's what I got back. Can anyone make any sense of this???

Radio sent to depot with:

Host: R05.60.04
DSP: I06.05.02
Flashcode: 540008-000400-3
UCM Installed: DVP-XL with firmware: R02.02.00
***Worked fine with CPS latest revision***

Radio returned from depot with:

Host: AP_R03.36.03
DSP: I05.01.07
Flashcode: 000008-000000-2
UCM: Nothing Displayed
***Crashes CPS software as well***

***When radio boots up and you press the button 5 times, it only displays the model, serial, and firmware revisions. No flashcode is displayed and the screen goes through very quickly.

I currently have an open case with the depot but of coarse I have not heard anything back yet.

d119 · Post by **d119** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:36 pm

gdubzakjr wrote:As a note, this is the most recent and probably the last firmware update for the ASTRO Saber and XTS 3000.

Whats your basis for this statement, or is it personal speculation? There are still a *TON* of these radios in use out there by legitimate buyers (read: police/fire). You never know.

W2GLD · Post by **W2GLD** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:38 pm

This was actually a statement from several of the Motorola engineers in Schaumburg...

Post by **batdude** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:04 pm

the Astro Saber has been out of production since 12/02 - END OF LIFE is 12/07.

the Astro XTS 3000 has been out of production since 6/05 with end of life in 2010. (800 units were 2004)

i would suspect that any CRITICAL updates will be available "for the XTS3000" should the need arise.... the astro saber will support "by default" - assuming that the host/dsp firmware doesn't access some untold feature/ability that isn't available in the astro saber hardware....

in other words - don't hold your breath.

doug

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:24 pm

I upgraded my AS1 a few days ago from I05.xxx crap to 08.03.03 and it plays well....which I would expect it to.

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:18 am

So what I'm reading is that an iButton could care less what firmware upgrade it was made for as long as you have the right firmware software upgrade and the target radio has an IMBE flashcode in it. Is this correct?

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:40 am

A firmware refresh i-button does not care about model, you just need the right file.

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:23 am

Can a "refresh" iButton be used to upgrade flashcodes? I would assume no.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:12 am

You assume correctly, that would be an upgrade i-button which does check things, model flash etc.

Post by **escomm** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:19 am

Batwings21 wrote:You assume correctly, that would be an upgrade i-button which does check things, model flash etc.

Is the flashkey written to work only with a specific version of firmware? Or is it happy as long as the CVN file is proper?

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:51 am

It does not care, however the old hard key types will no linger work with current software. I have used refresh i-buttons from astro 25 revision 4.x firmware on everything from mcs to mts to astro sabers all current revisions and they work just fine.

Post by **escomm** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:01 am

I know a refresh key will work on just about any flashport radio. I was talking about an upgrade key, which is definitely tied to model/old flash/new flash. However, it doesn't care about the CVN revision, as long as the key still has charges on it and the CVN file matches or is newer than the current firmware in the radio then it works just fine.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:20 pm

Okay now I gotcha, I've not tried that before.

Post by **escomm** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:58 pm

And apparently the upgrade key does not care about serial numbers, either.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:26 pm

escomm wrote:And apparently the upgrade key does not care about serial numbers, either.

Only model and starting flashcode...

tpg