What happened to panter88?

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:47 am

I have, and many board members have order various Motorola items from panter88.

Went to order a few things, and he's got nothing listed

Any clue what happened?

I'm hope he's just taking some HongKong holiday off, cause he had some great deals.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:37 am

I was wondering myself, was just about to order a new yellow housing for an XTS3000 and made a I into a III, and lo and behold all his stuff is gone? WTF?

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:12 am

This has happened in the past, too. I've searched for him, found
nothing, then a week later he's back with his usual run of stuff,
cases, 123ABC1234 radios, etc. etc.

cbus · Post by **cbus** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:27 am

pm him

http://batboard.batlabs.com/memberlist. ... le&u=10726

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:59 pm

It looks like he's got a few items up under one of his different eBay names.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZhk.radio

Rick Rock · Post by **Rick Rock** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:00 pm

He's also listing under panter88888 right now...

Radio Crazy · Post by **Radio Crazy** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:36 pm

Just bought today a Yellow XTS 5K Model 3 housing from him on ebay under the name of panther88.

Post by **jhtieman** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:52 pm

hello,

need so info on panter 88 - i work for a small Ambulance service thats on tight buget but needs to move to the city 800mhz radio system - panter 88 say he has several of the xtx2500 700/800 mhz radios model 2 without accessories and no labels? are these liget radios? and if so why no labels? will he stand behind his product if it dont work? any info would be great - his pricing allows me to move forward sooner than expected which is wonderful.

thanks,

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:30 am

Nothing wrong with his radios, BUT, from a liability point of view I sure
would not use radios purchased from overseas in any kind of life safety
work. And to answer the other part of your question the answer is no,
there is no real backup/warranty from either the seller or the manufacturer.
All eBay sales are on an as-is basis, which means if it doesn't work, or if
you get sued because it didn't work in an emergency situation, you are
the one who is stuck with the liability.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, but do you really want to be forced to
deal with a seller in Hong Kong on a day-to-day basis for your communications
needs?

dxon2m · Post by **dxon2m** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:39 am

Tom in D.C. has got a good point, if you are using the radios for amateur/casual basis (provided you got the license for it!), that's OK, but I definitely wouldn't put my life on it.

I've spoke with him in person and found out that quite a few of these radios are ones that didn't pass the quality test. As a result, they are sold at a much low price and well, end up in places like China or Hong Kong. They have various problems in them, some are worse than others. The cold solder joint problem on the 2500 (as pointed out in another thread) was one of the radio from panter88. You probably don't want to have a bad display while transporting a patient with a head trauma.

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:54 pm

I have purchase a lot of radios from Lau (Panter88) and he has always replaced any defective radios for me. They work just fine for me in HAM use, and other casual uses. I would never want to use one in any public safety environment.

I would hire a grant writer and get some of that DHS money before it's all gone.

Jim

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:10 pm

And radios lacking the FCC ID# would be considered contraband if found by ICE on their trip into the US. Surprised Motorola would release them at all, perhaps someone is dumpster diving ? (Don't laugh, returned/recalled Minitor 3's wound up in S.FL pawn shops about 8 years ago).

4n6inv · Post by **4n6inv** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Ya know; if I were going to spend that much money on a radio, I'd have to trust him that it was good enough for "goberment" work. I know there are liability issues; but when's the last time - or any time for that matter - that you heard of anyone trying to do what's right, that got sued over a doggone radio that came form a "less than legitimate" source? Come on folks; stop sniffing your socks long enough to appreciate what he's offering us for dimes on the dollar to have the best of the best -albiet, without legitimate tags. For that matter; when has ANYONE gotten sued and an attorney asked: "May I see the legitimate labels on your radio?" I'll even up you one: Who amongst us has an axe to grind with him? I've done only a few deals with him, and he's always been cooperative, and more than reasonable.

'Nuff said...

Jim

Wicho · Post by **Wicho** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:57 pm

Don't think anyone has an ax to grind with him - just read n7maq's comments - he's been good to work with.

Life and death situation - I'll pay top dollar for something straight from M, as will many people here on the board. There's a wrong place for certain radios, and public safety is one of them.

For my casual, fun use - I'll give panter88 a whirl.

It's about

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:24 pm

I just bought 2 (1V, 1U) today from him so I'll have to see the quality when they get here, although I've heard nothing but the best about hist 2500s so far at least.

Looks like sometimes his packages get here faster than if you shipped from the states!

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:25 pm

4n6inv wrote: I've done only a few deals with him, and he's always been cooperative, and more than reasonable.
'Nuff said...
Jim

I know of others who have delt with him for complete radios and parts and they have had the same experiences.

FireCpt809 · Post by **FireCpt809** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:30 pm

Ive bought from him a few times.. Never a problem.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:09 pm

Wicho wrote:Don't think anyone has an ax to grind with him - just read n7maq's comments - he's been good to work with.

Life and death situation - I'll pay top dollar for something straight from M, as will many people here on the board. There's a wrong place for certain radios, and public safety is one of them.

For my casual, fun use - I'll give panter88 a whirl.

It's about

his stuff is good, but one has to wonder, with the economy in the crapper and local governments cutting corners, how many "Ebay specials" end up on the front lines on a duty belt or in turnout gear? I have a problem with anyone cutting corners when lives are on the line. If a department is buying questionable used radios off broken-stolen radios.com or a pawn shop, then the turd blossoms on their city council or county commission need to be FIRED. For ham or non-life safety use an Panter88 Ebay special is fine- but if someone's life is on the line, this aint kosher.

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:24 pm

And it sure as hell isn't panters fault if someone in the US penny-pinches and buys hacked radios for his department...

4n6inv · Post by **4n6inv** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:58 pm

And I repeat my question: When has anyone EVER been sued over a radio? Yeah; I'd rather have it direct from Motorola, but; VFD's and other volunteer organizations have to rely on "The Gray Market" for equipment. I see nothing wrong with trying to do what's right. What burden of jurisprudence is necessary?

When I lived in a "Real City" it wasn't an issue, but in BFE, it's another matter.

n7maq · Post by **n7maq** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:35 pm

4n6inv wrote:And I repeat my question: When has anyone EVER been sued over a radio? Yeah; I'd rather have it direct from Motorola, but; VFD's and other volunteer organizations have to rely on "The Gray Market" for equipment. I see nothing wrong with trying to do what's right. What burden of jurisprudence is necessary?

When I lived in a "Real City" it wasn't an issue, but in BFE, it's another matter.

Here is one, "Families of New York firefighters killed at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001"

http://www.firefighterradiofailure.com/aboutus.html

I know their attempt was stopped by a federal judge, but they did try.

All it would take is a line of duty death, or major injury that may have been prevented by a radio transmission(Storm King Mt). Some other firefighter might be quick to point out "so-and-so was using a radio he bought cheap on eBay".

With all of the grant money that has been available for some time now most departments do have a lot of new gear. I know some that continually wait till right at the deadline, and/or don't have good answers on the grant request forms that have not received much if anything at all. Those organizations should seek the help of a professional grant writer, it's money well spent. That grant money is drying up fast though.

Imagine a "gray market SCBA". For the price of the Kenwoods and others there is no reason to look at "gray market" items. That would be border line insane, and I would hope illegal.

Jim

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:31 am

4n6inv wrote:And I repeat my question: When has anyone EVER been sued over a radio? Yeah; I'd rather have it direct from Motorola, but; VFD's and other volunteer organizations have to rely on "The Gray Market" for equipment. I see nothing wrong with trying to do what's right. What burden of jurisprudence is necessary?

When I lived in a "Real City" it wasn't an issue, but in BFE, it's another matter.

In the example of the Minitor 3's I mentioned above the recall was due to non-alerting. These were used almost exclusively in VFD service. Not a great situation when responders are not getting their notification and lives hang in the balance. To think they made it back to market somewhere is disturbing. I also cringe at the idea of a QC reject radio being used as a life safety device, but I'm also not a skydiver.
Because of you not having an example of "When has anyone EVER been sued over a radio ? doesn't make the risk any less, I can tell you such a situation is the stuff lawsuits are made of. If a radio failed and someone got hurt 1st thing the lawyers would do is subpoena radio contract info. looking for any deficiencies. Gee, no contract this stuff came from EBay and is not even legal for how it's being used, good luck! (Incredibly detailed information comes up in many legal proceedings). Have you ever heard of a PD using re-loaded ammunition for field use ? I think not.

Post by **Grog** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:11 am

RadioSouth wrote:
Have you ever heard of a PD using re-loaded ammunition for field use ? I think not.

Well, yes..... They had a local load custom ammo for them and they finally switched to factory ammo (230gr speer gold dot) in 2000.

MotoFAN · Post by **MotoFAN** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:23 am

Just for information for potential purchasers.

XTS2500s from Panter needs to be aligned on the service monitor. If it not to make, you will face with poor or no P25 demodulation when TX.

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:23 pm

We're all getting pretty OT here, but let's clear up one point.

Using ammo that has been custom loaded using new cases, when done by a
pro, provides ammo that is as good or better than factory loads. Reloaded
ammo, OTOH, uses cases that have been fired at least once and have been resized,
reprimered, and reloaded.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:17 pm

OK, lets take this thread back on track....

Many of us have ordered XTS3K/5K/2500 cases from Panter88 over the years, includiny myself.

One thing that after talking to a few other about his cases, many of these cases had bad/blown/defective speakers. Have you guys encountered this?

I ordered a few 5K M3 cases last month, and they both had blown speakers.

Other 3K M3 cases in the past from him had blown speakers as well.

What you say?

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:20 pm

The last case I got from him had a blown speaker....

Interesting....

Didn't know it was a common problem between buyers who got them.

beemare · Post by **beemare** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:09 pm

I got an MTS2000 case from him and the speaker was blown.

Radio Crazy · Post by **Radio Crazy** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:38 am

I ordered 3 cases from him in the past month, and all were working fine, including the yellow one I have on my xts5k for every day use.

beemare · Post by **beemare** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:41 am

That was just a one off thing though. I think I've ordered 3 or 4 cases off of him and haven't had a problem with any of them other than the Jedi case. Pretty good seller.

Rayjk110 · Post by **Rayjk110** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:17 pm

Well I just received my 2 XTS2500I M3s from him.

The UHF one, half the keypad (lower part, 789*0#) does not light up. The VHF one seems to be fine. Both are a little bumped up, some scrapes and scuffs but nothing too major.

Anyways at $499 it's a steal.

MotoFAN · Post by **MotoFAN** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:46 pm

Rayjk110 wrote:Well I just received my 2 XTS2500I M3s from him.

The UHF one, half the keypad (lower part, 789*0#) does not light up. The VHF one seems to be fine. Both are a little bumped up, some scrapes and scuffs but nothing too major.

Anyways at $499 it's a steal.

Check how they transmit in P25 with 10 Mhz step!

scancapecod · Post by **scancapecod** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:21 am

MotoFAN wrote:Just for information for potential purchasers.

XTS2500s from Panter needs to be aligned on the service monitor. If it not to make, you will face with poor or no P25 demodulation when TX.

I just purchased both VHF and UHF XTS2500 Model 3's with FPP from panter88. Both work just fine as they are for P25, both in transmit and receive. I expect they're not "perfect", but for amateur radio use and for conventional P25 monitoring they both appear to be working fine as far as I'm concerned. Both are in excellent physical condition.

MotoFAN · Post by **MotoFAN** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:25 am

scancapecod wrote:I just purchased both VHF and UHF XTS2500 Model 3's with FPP from panter88. Both work just fine as they are for P25, both in transmit and receive. I expect they're not "perfect", but for amateur radio use and for conventional P25 monitoring they both appear to be working fine as far as I'm concerned. Both are in excellent physical condition.

Check transmittions on differents freqs, like is 380, 390, 400 & etc. up to 470 with 10 MHz step. And listen your transmittions on Digital Uniden or on other factory aligned radio. Speak in mic normally. If it sounds perfect on all freqs, you are lucky.

scancapecod · Post by **scancapecod** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:10 pm

I suppose that would be a good test. Thing is, I'm not authorized to transmit on those frequencies, nor do I ever plan to. The only place I'll be transmitting P25 is in the 70CM amateur band. I already know it works fine there from testing in the very manner you describe. The only other area I'd be transmitting will be on GMRS frequencies (yes, I am licensed, WQHP695) and of course that will be in analog. With regards to the VHF model I have, it also transmits just fine in P25 where I need it to and I am authorized to use it, the 2M amateur band. It works dandy in analog on the MURS frequencies, the only other area I'll use it for transmit.

I guess what it comes down to is the old "your mileage may vary". I was very skeptical for a long time regarding this; it took me over a year to order a radio from him, but I did so after reading the for the most part favorable responses here, thinking about it for a while, and then re-reading the info here. It appears it's worked out well for me so far. I'm guessing that you or someone close to you was not a satisfied customer. Thus far I am; to get two current model radios with FPP for the price I paid for them was a winner for me. I suppose it could eventually bite me in the arse, but what's life without a little adventure?

IDEN98 · Post by **IDEN98** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:59 pm

If the money is coming from grants, like many P25 upgrades are, then you cannot buy gray market radios as they would be in violation of the grant agreement. Then not only would someones life be in peril, someones can would be in the slammer.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:38 pm

Holy old thread Batman !
I beleive Panter88 is still selling XTS2500's, and XTS5000's currently on the Bay. Some for very cheap as well I might add.
I have never personally bought any of his radios, but I would definitely make sure to properly bench test the radio before putting it out in the field. Actually, I would be very leery about using his radios for "field" use. For personal use defiantly, but not so sure I'd trust my life on one of those radios.
Just my .02 cents.
Mike

OCSD117 · Post by **OCSD117** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:34 pm

Just bought and XTS2500 from him!

Post by **w5oer** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:06 pm

I know that this is an old topic, but considering the fact that he is still selling these XTS2500 radios on Ebay, I have a question to ask.

The current non trunking VHF versions that he's selling contain flashcode 5A9081-401307-1 which most notably includes Q498-Hardware Multikey Encryption w/OTAR, H04-Conventional Tactical Rekey, and Q667 ADP Encryption Software DSP Based Only.

My question is: Does anyone know if these radios have been coming with Hardware UCM modules (specifically DES-XL) and will I have any trouble using DES-XL on these radios. I have a T3011DX with the proper Hirose/jedi adapter combo, but I also have noticed that the DES-XL UCM (Part number PMLN4931) is damn near impossible to find......so do these come with those?

Thanks,

David

d119 · Post by **d119** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:40 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Astro25 series of radios require a KVL3000?

Post by **w5oer** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:02 pm

d119 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Astro25 series of radios require a KVL3000?

a T3011DX will load DES (XL/OFB) on Astro25 (needs PID enabled in the radio's codeplug using the CPS)

David

WV8VFD · Post by **WV8VFD** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:15 pm

d119 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Astro25 series of radios require a KVL3000?

No,

according to batdudes secure module list you have to do this,

"To load encryption keys into XTS 5000 / XTL 5000 products using a T3011DX series keyloader - PID KEY MANAGEMENT *MUST* first be
enabled in the radio codeplug using CPS"

d119 · Post by **d119** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:42 pm

Excellent! Well I'll go get a 3011DX and show myself corrected!

Thanks for the heads up.

WV8VFD · Post by **WV8VFD** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:53 pm

Hey, not a problem. We're here to help each other. I remembered seeing that the first time I read through the article. Now two years later the trouble was remembering what article it was in!

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:30 am

w5oer wrote:
d119 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Astro25 series of radios require a KVL3000?
a T3011DX will load DES (XL/OFB) on Astro25 (needs PID enabled in the radio's codeplug using the CPS)

David

It will also load an APX7000. I have done 2 of them with an uplifted T3011BX.

Post by **W2WP** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:59 am

Hightower wrote:OK, lets take this thread back on track....

Many of us have ordered XTS3K/5K/2500 cases from Panter88 over the years, includiny myself.

One thing that after talking to a few other about his cases, many of these cases had bad/blown/defective speakers. Have you guys encountered this?

I ordered a few 5K M3 cases last month, and they both had blown speakers.

Other 3K M3 cases in the past from him had blown speakers as well.

What you say?

I have ordered a few XTS2500's from him. The first one looked and worked like a new radio on the UHF HAM band. The next 3 were returned as they did not work. Returns were handled fast and on his dime. I now just spend a few extra bucks and go with the "tagged correctly" radios.

WV8VFD · Post by **WV8VFD** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:33 am

KS4VT wrote:
w5oer wrote:
d119 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Astro25 series of radios require a KVL3000?
a T3011DX will load DES (XL/OFB) on Astro25 (needs PID enabled in the radio's codeplug using the CPS)

David
It will also load an APX7000. I have done 2 of them with an uplifted T3011BX.

Good to know also, that I didnt know. My friend is getting one, and he was wanting to know if I could load keys for him.

Thanks

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:06 am

KD8CPP wrote:
KS4VT wrote:
w5oer wrote:
a T3011DX will load DES (XL/OFB) on Astro25 (needs PID enabled in the radio's codeplug using the CPS)

David
It will also load an APX7000. I have done 2 of them with an uplifted T3011BX.
Good to know also, that I didnt know. My friend is getting one, and he was wanting to know if I could load keys for him.

Thanks

The APX needs to have current firmware or you won't be able to use DX-loaded keys for analog Securenet. R02 does not work. R04 does. Dunno about R03. The same rule about checking PID and unchecking CKR applies.

edit: Oh, and to keep it on topic, I bought a XTL head and a couple of CHIBs from Panter last month. His shipping was unusually slow (usually he's lightning fast), and while they both worked one of the CHIBs was pre-2005 and the other post-.