ASTRO Saber R

Post by **k5hdm** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:32 pm

Hello.. Does anyone happen to know if they ever made any battery other than the ntn7058a for the RUGGEDIZED Astro Saber.. I'd like to find a NIMH or LI ION even if it's aftermarket.. If anyone can help, let me know.. Also, if you have or know where to get 2-4 of the 7058a's, I'd like to get them..

Thanks!!
Harmon - K5HDM

N4KVE · Post by **N4KVE** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:56 am

Just a tip, but I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. It was much easier to swap out the Astro Saber R case for a regular Astro Saber case, & use the regular accessories. The swap took a minute. GARY N4KVE

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:08 am

The radio is supposed to be tested once a year and any leaking seals replaced. I bet most of the seals have lost there R rating considering how old the astro saber line is.

Jason

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:21 pm

The ntn7058 is the only battery I know of that will fit a Saber/Astro "R" radio. They are ungodly expensive new ($100+), but I would contact Escomm here on the boards first and see what he can do for you. One of the reasons M didn't make a li-ion battery for the R astro/saber is because the price would almost definitely be even more ridiculous.

I've had several "R" sabers/astro sabers over the years, and, while they are one of the most indestructible radio you will probably ever use, they are very impractical in today's field. Mainly because they are too BIG and BULKY !! With the introduction of the XTS3000R a few years after the Astro Sabers were introduced, one of "M"'s concerns was to cut back on the extra bulk of the Ruggedized saber series, and they basically made the case of the XTSR look the same as the regualer XTS case, but with a watertight rating of (6 feet for a certian amount of time ??). What I don't understand is, that there is XTS "R" batteries as well, but they look the same as the regualer XTS battery's. I know it can't be just intrinsically safe, because they have the "green dot" batteries as well, so I have no clue what's so special about the XTS rugged batteries ??

Anyway, just trying to shed some light on the topic.

Post by **k5hdm** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:41 pm

KB9KST wrote:The radio is supposed to be tested once a year and any leaking seals replaced. I bet most of the seals have lost there R rating considering how old the astro saber line is.

Jason

This one is brand new.. NOS.. the guy just built them up a few months ago..

Post by **k5hdm** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:45 pm

MT2000 man wrote:The ntn7058 is the only battery I know of that will fit a Saber/Astro "R" radio. They are ungodly expensive new ($100+), but I would contact Escomm here on the boards first and see what he can do for you. One of the reasons M didn't make a li-ion battery for the R astro/saber is because the price would almost definitely be even more ridiculous.

I've had several "R" sabers/astro sabers over the years, and, while they are one of the most indestructible radio you will probably ever use, they are very impractical in today's field. Mainly because they are too BIG and BULKY !! With the introduction of the XTS3000R a few years after the Astro Sabers were introduced, one of "M"'s concerns was to cut back on the extra bulk of the Ruggedized saber series, and they basically made the case of the XTSR look the same as the regualer XTS case, but with a watertight rating of (6 feet for a certian amount of time ??). What I don't understand is, that there is XTS "R" batteries as well, but they look the same as the regualer XTS battery's. I know it can't be just intrinsically safe, because they have the "green dot" batteries as well, so I have no clue what's so special about the XTS rugged batteries ??

Anyway, just trying to shed some light on the topic.

See, that's what I wanted a Saber R for.. it's so much more water resistant than the new R's or i's .. you can strap the saber r on and take it for a swim all day, but the xts r's just can't handle that.. I will try to find escomm.. I wouldn't dare switch the R into a regular case(like the other guy suggested).. the R's are so cool looking!

Thanks!
Harmon

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:17 am

k5hdm wrote:
KB9KST wrote:The radio is supposed to be tested once a year and any leaking seals replaced. I bet most of the seals have lost there R rating considering how old the astro saber line is.

Jason
This one is brand new.. NOS.. the guy just built them up a few months ago..

Doesn't matter... time and air are what affect the seals. For it to be an R radio, it needs to be pressure-tested yearly.

Same idea as Factory Mutual... unless you have the paperwork from birth till death, and have it recertified, and have it serviced to FM standard at an FM shop, it's not FM anymore.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:56 am

k5hdm wrote:See, that's what I wanted a Saber R for.. it's so much more water resistant than the new R's or i's .. you can strap the saber r on and take it for a swim all day, but the xts r's just can't handle that.. I will try to find escomm.. I wouldn't dare switch the R into a regular case(like the other guy suggested).. the R's are so cool looking!

Thanks!
Harmon

Would it surprise you to know that the control tops are identical between a regular Astro Saber and an AS/R? I don't doubt for a minute that when properly sealed they can go for a swim, but keep in mind that all you're getting with that big expensive case and battery is some extra protection around the battery contacts, the display window, the keypad membrane, and a slightly sturdier case itself. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm as much of a Mototard as the next guy and I dig funky-looking radios but personally I couldn't justify the expense of owning an AS/R even at the rock-bottom price I'm sure you paid for yours.

Oh, and chew on this for a minute: to be Factory Mutual (FM) certified to operate in hazardous or explosive environments an Astro Saber (or regular Saber, for that matter) need not be a Ruggedized model. I have a FM-certified UHF AS3 that is identical in every regard to any other off-the-shelf Astro Saber out there except it went through the paperwork and rigermarole to maintain FM certification up until its retirement. The only provision made towards the battery connection, where you would think an explosion-causing spark would be most likely to occur, is that FM-certified Motorola OEM batteries are required to be used with the radio to maintain FM status.

FireCpt809 · Post by **FireCpt809** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:31 am

I had a Saber IIR that I used to carry when at the firehouse. I had the Jedi style Mic and everything. Sure it looked cool.. I never opened it so I was unsure if it was still water resistant. It did get a little wet at drills but never dunked. I got rid of it after it was like carrying a brick that and I got an XTS.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:45 pm

k5hdm wrote:[ you can strap the saber r on and take it for a swim all day, but the xts r's just can't handle that.. I will try to find escomm.. I wouldn't dare switch the R into a regular case(like the other guy suggested).. the R's are so cool looking!

Thanks!
Harmon

Keep in mind, that you can (with a properly pressurised radio of course) do the same thing with an XTS5000R as well.
From the XTS User Manual "The XTS 5000
R radio is designed to be submerged to a
maximum depth of 6 feet, with a maximum
submersion time of 4 hours. Exceeding either
maximum limit may result in damage to the
radio."

But I guess the point to all this is, like tvsjr has said, it has to be properly pressure tested anyway, and MOST "R" radios are well over thier waterproofness test period anyway.
On a side note, I also beleive the military (army, marines, etc.) also gave up thier Astro Saber "R" 's for XTS5000R's.

Post by **k5hdm** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:56 pm

I got my NTN4265 and NLN9839 (Vacuum and pressure pumps) in today.. I tested my Saber R, ASTRO Saber R, XTS3000R, XTS5000R and XTS2500I and they're all within spec (aka no leaks)! I figured they would be because I put some thick silicon gel on the seals when I got them all.. I think I am going to put up an ad on ebay for R/I testing/pressurizing services.. the little pumps only cost me 80 and the adapter for all the radios (same for all) was $28.00, so not too big of an investment.. I can get a different nozzle thing for the mototrbo radios and do those, too..

N7QQU-Ken · Post by **N7QQU-Ken** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:34 pm

Good Day-

I have an Saber R and XTS3000R and would like to learn more about the testing process. I looked in the 3000 service manual and not details... just a mention that the testing needs to be done. In the XTS 5000 service manual they list the part number of the pumps and adapters but no details.

I wouold guess that the radios are to have a positive pressure inside. How much? They should require just a few psi to work correctly.

I just may need to be one of your first customers:)

Ken - N7QQU

d119 · Post by **d119** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:43 pm

k5hdm wrote:I got my NTN4265 and NLN9839 (Vacuum and pressure pumps) in today.. I tested my Saber R, ASTRO Saber R, XTS3000R, XTS5000R and XTS2500I and they're all within spec (aka no leaks)! I figured they would be because I put some thick silicon gel on the seals when I got them all.. I think I am going to put up an ad on ebay for R/I testing/pressurizing services.. the little pumps only cost me 80 and the adapter for all the radios (same for all) was $28.00, so not too big of an investment.. I can get a different nozzle thing for the mototrbo radios and do those, too..

Can we sue you when our radios you tested suddenly flood with water as a result of something that's not a fault of yours?

Joking, of course. If you are seriously going to take that on, be sure to make folks sign an indemnity waiver in case some asshat decides to make a failure of the radio your problem.

I think such a service would be really cool, just cover yourself is all. And I certainly wouldn't do it for any public safety agencies or any radios still under warranty.

MikeOxlong · Post by **MikeOxlong** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:35 am

Sounds like a quick way to make money at Dayton.

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:07 am

So you put them in water while hooked up the the pump and tested them?

Jason

k5hdm wrote:I got my NTN4265 and NLN9839 (Vacuum and pressure pumps) in today.. I tested my Saber R, ASTRO Saber R, XTS3000R, XTS5000R and XTS2500I and they're all within spec (aka no leaks)! I figured they would be because I put some thick silicon gel on the seals when I got them all.. I think I am going to put up an ad on ebay for R/I testing/pressurizing services.. the little pumps only cost me 80 and the adapter for all the radios (same for all) was $28.00, so not too big of an investment.. I can get a different nozzle thing for the mototrbo radios and do those, too..

Post by **k5hdm** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:18 pm

KB9KST wrote:So you put them in water while hooked up the the pump and tested them?

Jason

k5hdm wrote:I got my NTN4265 and NLN9839 (Vacuum and pressure pumps) in today.. I tested my Saber R, ASTRO Saber R, XTS3000R, XTS5000R and XTS2500I and they're all within spec (aka no leaks)! I figured they would be because I put some thick silicon gel on the seals when I got them all.. I think I am going to put up an ad on ebay for R/I testing/pressurizing services.. the little pumps only cost me 80 and the adapter for all the radios (same for all) was $28.00, so not too big of an investment.. I can get a different nozzle thing for the mototrbo radios and do those, too..

No, if the radio passes the vacuum test, it's sealed up fine and you're "R" certified... if it fails the vacuum test, you pressurize it and submerge it to see where the bubbles are coming from, then proceed from there.. also, contrary to popular belief none of the Saber R or ASTRO Saber R or XTS radio cases were ever "pressurized" as part of being ruggedized.. if they pass the vacuum test, they're good to go.. anyone familiar with the process can tell you there's no way to leave them in a -/+ pressure state inside the case.. I have run into several people scared to open their "R" or "i" radio because it was "still pressurized/vacuum'd from the factory/depot".. Hopefully this post will relieve those worries.. Just don't forget your submersible battery for the xts's (hard to forget on the sabers) and you should be fine. Also the pumps "NTN4265 and NLN9839" are available from snap-on tools (Maybe someone knows their part #) for about 1/4 of what M wants.. the adapter is only available from M, though..

SlimBob · Post by **SlimBob** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:41 pm

That'd probably be worth a gallon of flourinert to test with.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:44 am

I think the Saber R battery design act as a plunger and place a slight bit of pressure in the case as it is inserted. I recall seeing the membranes pop out a bit when I was working on a case once with the plastic front shield removed.

rmiles · Post by **rmiles** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:00 am

k5hdm wrote:the little pumps only cost me 80 and the adapter for all the radios (same for all) was $28.00

Could you please provide further details on the pump you used (specs, supplier, model number) and do you have the part number for the adapter? I could not find a reference for either of these items.

Spiffy50 · Post by **Spiffy50** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:26 pm

Good luck finding a battery for your Saber Rs however. Motorola has disco'd them, as has every third party manufacturer. I was looking for one for my Saber IIR and couldn't find any anywhere.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:37 pm

One of the reasons why I sold my ASIIR. While it is a VERY good radio (one of the BEST I've owned), finding batteries for it was almost impossible. With my new XTS5000R, getting a ruggedized battery is no problem. (Although, it isn't a "true" ruggedized battery, like the "R" saber battery was.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:38 pm

k5hdm wrote:This one is brand new.. NOS.. the guy just built them up a few months ago..

Is Nick back in business?

Couldn't resist... we know it wasn't Nick because he said these radios had seals.

d119 · Post by **d119** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:19 am

Batwings21 wrote:
k5hdm wrote:This one is brand new.. NOS.. the guy just built them up a few months ago..
Is Nick back in business?

Couldn't resist... we know it wasn't Nick because he said these radios had seals.

Well played... touche....

Post by Pj » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:14 pm

The NTN4538DR comes up as "Premium Battery - NiCd 1100 mAh 7.5V, Submersible" for $98. Not sure if this replaced the usual R battery or not.

Spiffy50 · Post by **Spiffy50** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:16 pm

I have one of those NTN4538 batteries, it is not the replacement to the "R", it is just the IS version for regular Sabers.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:07 am

Spiffy50 wrote:Good luck finding a battery for your Saber Rs however. Motorola has disco'd them, as has every third party manufacturer. I was looking for one for my Saber IIR and couldn't find any anywhere.

I have a customer looking for 10 new batteries for the Saber-R. He has the NTN7058A now. Motorola says no longer available.

Does anyone know of any options before I tell him he is SOL?

Post by **escomm** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:14 pm

I have not been able to locate any aftermarket vendors with the R batteries

You might be able to get a company like Battery Biz to rebuild them with new cells if you have dead ones

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