Not really on topic, but does anyone here know what freqs the GM On-star system uses? Is it 800-866 or 825-890, for voice and data.
I realize it uses GPS also.............
On-star freq
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Dale Earnhardt
- Posts: 848
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:00 pm
I just gotta finish up the wiring 
I always like how we get called by onstar and they never have information about the vehicle. Mostly rental cars, but sometimes they just know that they are in your town. "Yeah, we recieved an emergency signal from a car...its Route 75 by....well its going south." "South from where?" "Not sure".
Ooooook, we will just jump right on that...
Ooooook, we will just jump right on that...
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
On Star uses analog cellular. It's actually built on a network called Win4. Win4 is essentially an aggregator of service provided by analog service providers across the US and Canada. See http://www.win4.net/ for more info.
--z
--z
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
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hfitzgerald
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm
OnStar, Rearview mirrors.
While in college, I had a 3 year internship at Donnelly corporation. One of the last projects I worked on was to assist building 250 prototypes of an auto-dimming interior rear view mirror with the Onstar interface built into the chin of the housing. I didn't do any of the design, but I helped assemble the prototypes and do initial testing before my intership ended.
One of the senior engineers on the project had one of the 'big GM books of Onstar' that had everything you could ever want to know. I found out 2nd hand (from someone else on the project) that you could wire up an output from the Onstar GPS receiver. -but my internship ended before I was blessed with the details. Does here on this board know how this is done? -and is the data stream in NMEA format? I would suspect no, but it's wishful thinking. I'll take any info offered.
In defense of the OnStar people, I've only dealt with them directly on a few occasions, but it seems like they're fighting an uphill battle (similar to why the Apple Newton and Motorola Envoy PDAs didn't make it, they're a bit before they're time). Most 911 dispatch centers don't have the ability to respond to a call based on GPS coordinates. We've got a state of the art 911 system and we're still a few months away from imputing a GPS coordinate for dispatch purposes. Until then, the Onstar people are limited to giving us cross roads and mile markers.
One of the senior engineers on the project had one of the 'big GM books of Onstar' that had everything you could ever want to know. I found out 2nd hand (from someone else on the project) that you could wire up an output from the Onstar GPS receiver. -but my internship ended before I was blessed with the details. Does here on this board know how this is done? -and is the data stream in NMEA format? I would suspect no, but it's wishful thinking. I'll take any info offered.
In defense of the OnStar people, I've only dealt with them directly on a few occasions, but it seems like they're fighting an uphill battle (similar to why the Apple Newton and Motorola Envoy PDAs didn't make it, they're a bit before they're time). Most 911 dispatch centers don't have the ability to respond to a call based on GPS coordinates. We've got a state of the art 911 system and we're still a few months away from imputing a GPS coordinate for dispatch purposes. Until then, the Onstar people are limited to giving us cross roads and mile markers.
I am sure if your savvy enough you can trace the wires back to the GPS board...where ever they hide it. Many AVL's that use GPS have a basic circut board similar to what you could have bought from tapr.org. The only problem tapping into it may be line loss from the signal going to the cell for onstar and your application. Interesting concept....
The only problem I can see in the future though, cell carriers are starting to file with the FCC to discontinue support for AMPS service, and lately in some area's they are able to covert some analog channels over to digital.
The only problem I can see in the future though, cell carriers are starting to file with the FCC to discontinue support for AMPS service, and lately in some area's they are able to covert some analog channels over to digital.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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wazzzzzzzzup
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS3000/astro spectra/
i had a fullpage on* ad mabe a year ago, and at the bottom in fine print it said on* uses existing analog and digital cellular networks, tho some areas may not support enhanced on* features such as engine troubleshoot. ( i took that to mean that if it is in digital cellular mode, it could do data transfer via IP. if in analog it wouldnot)
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Dale Earnhardt
- Posts: 848
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Dang!!!!!, talking about in a day, and there are so many post already lol.
Sure Will, whenever you have time to come by one day, cause am for sure that on* puts out at least 3 watts or more, espically with the gain antenna on there too hehehehe. and oooooooo LMR400 huh?
Ohh, the project on replaceing the coxial at my house robert? or are we talking about my suburban? My suburban is finish, or for now that is lol, got to UHF antenna on top of the suburban from Will.
Sure Will, whenever you have time to come by one day, cause am for sure that on* puts out at least 3 watts or more, espically with the gain antenna on there too hehehehe. and oooooooo LMR400 huh?
Ohh, the project on replaceing the coxial at my house robert? or are we talking about my suburban? My suburban is finish, or for now that is lol, got to UHF antenna on top of the suburban from Will.
Virtually all GPS sensors use RS-232 format to send position information; three wires, which correspond to pins 2, 3 and 5 (gnd) on a DB-9 plug. If you tap the right pins, connect it to the serial port of a computer, and boot a "terminal" program, you should be able to see the information being sent by the sensor.
Also, virtually such units use a format known as NMEA-0183 (usually Rev. 2) to send the data. The data is straight ASCII, and consists of NMEA "sentences." The sentences start with a 5 letter code, of which the first two identify the "talker" and the last 3 identify the information being sent. These are followed by the data, in CSV format, followed by a checksum. Each sentence ends with a CR/LF.
Unfortunately, there are a large number of different NMEA sentences, and without the full NMEA spec, which is only available for sale and is costly, you can't be sure what you are seeing. From memory (I don't have any of my materials to hand), there is information on the Garmin website that will tell you about the more common sentences.
Also from memory, most of the NMEA sentences containing position information use decimal degrees, which means some math will be required to convert to DDMMSS or DDMM.mm format (which you need to interface with most mapping programs). For MM.mm (minutes and decimal minutes), take the decimal part of decimal degrees and multiply by 60. For MMSS (minutes and seconds), take the decimal part of decimal degrees, multiply by 60, and use the integer value of the result for minutes. Then take the decimal part of decimal minutes and multiply it by 60 for seconds.
Also, virtually such units use a format known as NMEA-0183 (usually Rev. 2) to send the data. The data is straight ASCII, and consists of NMEA "sentences." The sentences start with a 5 letter code, of which the first two identify the "talker" and the last 3 identify the information being sent. These are followed by the data, in CSV format, followed by a checksum. Each sentence ends with a CR/LF.
Unfortunately, there are a large number of different NMEA sentences, and without the full NMEA spec, which is only available for sale and is costly, you can't be sure what you are seeing. From memory (I don't have any of my materials to hand), there is information on the Garmin website that will tell you about the more common sentences.
Also from memory, most of the NMEA sentences containing position information use decimal degrees, which means some math will be required to convert to DDMMSS or DDMM.mm format (which you need to interface with most mapping programs). For MM.mm (minutes and decimal minutes), take the decimal part of decimal degrees and multiply by 60. For MMSS (minutes and seconds), take the decimal part of decimal degrees, multiply by 60, and use the integer value of the result for minutes. Then take the decimal part of decimal minutes and multiply it by 60 for seconds.
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
I know for a fact that the Mercedes GPS unit on the ML 320 does NOT use the standard NMEA 0183 output format. There is a site on the web where a guy has a custom converter box so hams can hook up their Kenwood D700 radios for APRS sevices via the ML 320's built-in GPS unit. I think the On Star also entails a non-NMEA output, but I don't know of a converter for this lash-up.
Regarding the humor on dummies calling into E911 Centers and having bad locxations, etc. I'm kind of sensitive to this attitude (and I do have a good sense of humor). However, a friend of mine very nearly died on Oregon's Mt Hood several years ago. Near the top of the Mountain, he suddenly came down with a severe and acute medical emergency involving insufficient oxygen in his blood, and a sort of Benz blood poisoning. Anyways, he was in highly critical condition. His fellow climber called 911 on his cell phone, albeit it was very cold and the battery was almost dead, as was the back-up battery. He did get through to an Oregon 911 center. The 911 operator told him he was taslking to the wrong center. He explained that he had only seconds left on his cell phone before his final battery was about to die. The 911 Operator continued to debate him as to the "correct" 911 center to call, and she chided him for coming into the wrong center, etc. My friend nearly died on the mountain. Long story short, a copter finally arrived and saved his life.
How many of us would appreciate a 911 Operator debating us in a life threatened condition that we had called into the wrong center?!
Just a little sensitive to 911 humor about "incorrect" calls,
Larry
Regarding the humor on dummies calling into E911 Centers and having bad locxations, etc. I'm kind of sensitive to this attitude (and I do have a good sense of humor). However, a friend of mine very nearly died on Oregon's Mt Hood several years ago. Near the top of the Mountain, he suddenly came down with a severe and acute medical emergency involving insufficient oxygen in his blood, and a sort of Benz blood poisoning. Anyways, he was in highly critical condition. His fellow climber called 911 on his cell phone, albeit it was very cold and the battery was almost dead, as was the back-up battery. He did get through to an Oregon 911 center. The 911 operator told him he was taslking to the wrong center. He explained that he had only seconds left on his cell phone before his final battery was about to die. The 911 Operator continued to debate him as to the "correct" 911 center to call, and she chided him for coming into the wrong center, etc. My friend nearly died on the mountain. Long story short, a copter finally arrived and saved his life.
How many of us would appreciate a 911 Operator debating us in a life threatened condition that we had called into the wrong center?!
Just a little sensitive to 911 humor about "incorrect" calls,
Larry
"Just a little sensitive to 911 humor about "incorrect" calls.."
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This must be a problem everywhere - I don't know why they can't just try to help people.
Remember the movie "Die Hard"? Our hero is out on the roof, under attack, switches the radio to an emergency channel, and talks to the center. The operator starts to give him a hard time about the use of the channel being restricted & he says something like " Jesus lady, does it sound like I'm trying to order a pizza?"
Oh, well. It's not for nothing we used to call the folks at our local 911 center the "Attack Dispatchers"
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This must be a problem everywhere - I don't know why they can't just try to help people.
Remember the movie "Die Hard"? Our hero is out on the roof, under attack, switches the radio to an emergency channel, and talks to the center. The operator starts to give him a hard time about the use of the channel being restricted & he says something like " Jesus lady, does it sound like I'm trying to order a pizza?"
Oh, well. It's not for nothing we used to call the folks at our local 911 center the "Attack Dispatchers"
As for the 911 center, it may be the way its swtiched via the wireless center. In my state, the system was upgraded for the 911 call to go to the town in which the tower is located. The problem is, we have had calls from people in another town hit a tower in our parking lot. We NEED to verify where they actually are so we can transfer the call to the right agency. If caller is in town "C", and I am in town "A", we will transfer the call to town "C". However, if you do not know where you are, calling 911 does not gurantee we know where you are either.
I have recieved calls from people on Route 75, and it be the wrong town. Route 75 happens to run thru 5 towns in a fairly straight line. Two of the towns have very similar names. What do you do for the 5-10 seconds while you are on the phone with them, and they do not know where they are?
Those are some of the desicions we have to make each day, and it may cost or save a life.
Now, being chasited on the phone, I cannot answer that question as I cannot hear the tape. When you are in an emergency situation, you may think you are being chasitized when we are asking basic questions. You also have to understand when people call public safety centers via the routine line, that doesn't do anything for us. 99% of answering centers do not use caller ID.
But this is getting off the topic..
I have recieved calls from people on Route 75, and it be the wrong town. Route 75 happens to run thru 5 towns in a fairly straight line. Two of the towns have very similar names. What do you do for the 5-10 seconds while you are on the phone with them, and they do not know where they are?
Those are some of the desicions we have to make each day, and it may cost or save a life.
Now, being chasited on the phone, I cannot answer that question as I cannot hear the tape. When you are in an emergency situation, you may think you are being chasitized when we are asking basic questions. You also have to understand when people call public safety centers via the routine line, that doesn't do anything for us. 99% of answering centers do not use caller ID.
But this is getting off the topic..
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
I'm pretty sure that the joking was about the fine folks in the On-Star call center calling in disabled motorists and/or accidents; A third party calling the police NOT a first or second party. It's probably not the person calling's fault anyways. THey're just following what's on the screen. Same thing as alarm central station operators, they're a dime a dozen!
Now about the deal about calling 911 from your cell phone, that's a whole 'nother bunch of apples. When you dial 911 from a cell-phone, you have no control over where that call goes to. It used to be 911 calls routed to the state police of the state where the tower was. Now it's changing to the local police where the tower is located. From my experience, it's pretty accurate. All things considered, it's supposed to cut down the time between you placing the call and you speaking to the proper department.
Now about the deal about calling 911 from your cell phone, that's a whole 'nother bunch of apples. When you dial 911 from a cell-phone, you have no control over where that call goes to. It used to be 911 calls routed to the state police of the state where the tower was. Now it's changing to the local police where the tower is located. From my experience, it's pretty accurate. All things considered, it's supposed to cut down the time between you placing the call and you speaking to the proper department.
Nope, not being defensive, just pointing out some stuff that people may not understand, that's all.
We have (and thank god this person is leaving) that is like who you were describing. I can't stand her, and neither can most of the town. Personally I can't see how that will do you any good.
As for Alarm company call centers and the like, now THAT's another topic all together. But like its stated, they can only give you what they have. Its when you call back for basic info or follow up, that's where we get a little miffed.
We have (and thank god this person is leaving) that is like who you were describing. I can't stand her, and neither can most of the town. Personally I can't see how that will do you any good.
As for Alarm company call centers and the like, now THAT's another topic all together. But like its stated, they can only give you what they have. Its when you call back for basic info or follow up, that's where we get a little miffed.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
On a humerous note, We get call's from time to time in the plant security office from the local P.D. stating that Onstar has reported an airbag deployment at one of our facilities. We make both Onstar systems and airbag controllers here. Then it's time to go down to the engineering garage again and scold the airbag guys again for not disabling the onstar system during testing.
Chris
N9LLO
Chris
N9LLO
I've got a question that goes a little futher off topic......
A couple of months ago I got a Motorola T720 cell phone on Verizon. One of the features is the ability to send the callers location to a 911 center, phase II compliant center I guess....
Anyway, what method is my new handy, dandy little cell phone using to determine the location? Is it GPS, triangulation? signal strength estimations???
Thanks in advance.
Jaqx
A couple of months ago I got a Motorola T720 cell phone on Verizon. One of the features is the ability to send the callers location to a 911 center, phase II compliant center I guess....
Anyway, what method is my new handy, dandy little cell phone using to determine the location? Is it GPS, triangulation? signal strength estimations???
Thanks in advance.
Jaqx
As I understand it, you need to have a GPS equipped cell phone. When you call 911, your phone will consistantly transmit its GPS location over the network. I am not aware of a complete phase 2 setup yet. My state a couple of years ago upgraded all the 911 equipment (using the Lucent Palidum software). The problem is that the carriers don't want to spend the money as quickly as the FCC would like them to do, to upgrade all the cell sites.
If memory serves, there is a whole area on the FCC website about this.
We were told by the beginning of next year we would start to get second monitors with area maps to show in realtime where the callers are, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Just in the last 6 months they went to phase one where the cell call would go to the pd in which the tower was located.
If memory serves, there is a whole area on the FCC website about this.
We were told by the beginning of next year we would start to get second monitors with area maps to show in realtime where the callers are, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Just in the last 6 months they went to phase one where the cell call would go to the pd in which the tower was located.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Here is a link on what the carries have to have for Phase 2:
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/New ... l0127a.pdf
It explains what they have to have in service by what date, and the technology they are using.
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/New ... l0127a.pdf
It explains what they have to have in service by what date, and the technology they are using.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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hfitzgerald
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm
On*, NMEA, Oncore, Motorola, etc.
I am 90% certain that OnStar is not NMEA. This information is from overhearing conversations during my internship and also speculation from a friend who tried and failed to tap the data stream in his GM Tahoe. (see also below)
I'm pretty sure that the OnStar system uses Motorola Oncore GPS receivers. -but take this with a grain of salt, I'll explain later. I do know for sure that the Oncore uses a data stream proprietary to Motorola. It can be made to run NMEA, but only the later versions and after telling the chip to do so with a specific command signal. To generate this command signal, you need one of those cool Oncore developer's evaluation kits (comes with Oncore chips on a PCB and a CD with the developer's software package).
Doing a little research. I dug up this info on Motorola's website (http://www.oncore.motorola.com):
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By default, the Oncore® GPS receivers are in Motorola binary communications mode at a baud rate of 9600. In order to switch the receiver to the NMEA mode at 4800 baud, the Switch To NMEA command must be sent. The evaluation kit software or a custom application can issue this command. Once the command is sent, the Oncore® GPS receiver switches the communications port to 4800 baud and awaits instructions. By default, no NMEA messages are selected for output. Using a terminal application or with the custom software, any one of the seven supported NMEA messages can be requested at a user selected output rate. For more information, download the NMEA Application Note.
http://www.motorola.com/ies/GPS/pdfs/nmea.pdf
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After a quick scan through the above mentioned PDF, it looks like any of the Oncore VP or GT units (version 2.0 or later) can do NMEA 0183. -and you can switch to NMEA using a terminal program to send the correct command message. (So, it looks like you still need the developer's evaluation kit or some sort of 'custom application,' which they chose not to mention any further info.) However, I'm assuming that switching the unit to NMEA will disable your OnStar abilities since I'm 90% certain that they are using the Motorola proprietary structure. I also know that the early Oncore units did not support NMEA at all.
Who does OnStar buy their receivers from? Telematics. -which is some sort of division or group of Motorola. What role do they play? I'm not sure, but I believe they have oversight on all the Oncore projects. This would lead me to believe that Onstar buys Oncore GPS receivers, -since I can't think of any other mass produced GPS receiver made by Motorola.
So, after all that. If you've got an OnStar equipped vehicle with a late model Oncore chip, you could switch the data stream and have APRS using your factory receiver. This is assuming you are not an OnStar subscriber and do not need their services. Oh, yeah, -you do need to find the 3 magic wires in that big fat wiring harness, and the Oncore developer's kit (start watching eBay). If anybody knows anything further about the 'custom application' to switch to NMEA without using the developer's kit, please post the information.
I'm pretty sure that the OnStar system uses Motorola Oncore GPS receivers. -but take this with a grain of salt, I'll explain later. I do know for sure that the Oncore uses a data stream proprietary to Motorola. It can be made to run NMEA, but only the later versions and after telling the chip to do so with a specific command signal. To generate this command signal, you need one of those cool Oncore developer's evaluation kits (comes with Oncore chips on a PCB and a CD with the developer's software package).
Doing a little research. I dug up this info on Motorola's website (http://www.oncore.motorola.com):
--------------------------------------------------------
By default, the Oncore® GPS receivers are in Motorola binary communications mode at a baud rate of 9600. In order to switch the receiver to the NMEA mode at 4800 baud, the Switch To NMEA command must be sent. The evaluation kit software or a custom application can issue this command. Once the command is sent, the Oncore® GPS receiver switches the communications port to 4800 baud and awaits instructions. By default, no NMEA messages are selected for output. Using a terminal application or with the custom software, any one of the seven supported NMEA messages can be requested at a user selected output rate. For more information, download the NMEA Application Note.
http://www.motorola.com/ies/GPS/pdfs/nmea.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------
After a quick scan through the above mentioned PDF, it looks like any of the Oncore VP or GT units (version 2.0 or later) can do NMEA 0183. -and you can switch to NMEA using a terminal program to send the correct command message. (So, it looks like you still need the developer's evaluation kit or some sort of 'custom application,' which they chose not to mention any further info.) However, I'm assuming that switching the unit to NMEA will disable your OnStar abilities since I'm 90% certain that they are using the Motorola proprietary structure. I also know that the early Oncore units did not support NMEA at all.
Who does OnStar buy their receivers from? Telematics. -which is some sort of division or group of Motorola. What role do they play? I'm not sure, but I believe they have oversight on all the Oncore projects. This would lead me to believe that Onstar buys Oncore GPS receivers, -since I can't think of any other mass produced GPS receiver made by Motorola.
So, after all that. If you've got an OnStar equipped vehicle with a late model Oncore chip, you could switch the data stream and have APRS using your factory receiver. This is assuming you are not an OnStar subscriber and do not need their services. Oh, yeah, -you do need to find the 3 magic wires in that big fat wiring harness, and the Oncore developer's kit (start watching eBay). If anybody knows anything further about the 'custom application' to switch to NMEA without using the developer's kit, please post the information.
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
007, if you want to use OnStar with APRS (like with a Kenwwood D700), you might want to check with TAPR and the D700 Yahoo Group. A lot of folks have tried, but so far I have not yet seen a successful lash-up from OnStar to APRS applications. You see TONS of posts on this on the Yahoo Group for the Kenwood D700 and on TAPR's site, but to date no one yet has been successful. It reminds me of folks playing around with MDC---lots have tried it and said it looked pretty easy, but show me someone who has done it successfully with home brewed gear.
Good Luck,
Larry
Good Luck,
Larry
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hfitzgerald
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm
007, yes, in a perfect world this can work. -but ASTROMODAT raised a very good point. If you do want to pursue this, here's a checklist of things to acomplish before you dig in with the wire cutters.
1. Verify that you have an Oncore GPS receiver.
2. Verify that the Oncore chip is a VP or GT, is version 2.0 or later, or is some other hybrid with NMEA capabilities.
3. Find a developer kit or the 'custom application' that the Motorola website talks about.
4. Find the data cables in the wiring harness. RKG stated that it's pins 2 & 3, with pin 5 as ground for a DB-9 plug. Since I don't have my paperwork on me (from working with my Garmin receiver), I'd trust RKG. It does sound right.
5. Send your command signal (or use the 'custom application') from your laptop and pray for the best.
Steps 1, 2, and 4 might be accomplished with a phone call to GM's Onstar engineering group. -but otherwise you're going to have to look at the actual chip and read the numbers off the top. If you're lucky, the engineer you'll talk to is a HAM operator who has already done this in his vehicle or assisted someone else.
I'd strongly suggest purchasing a compatible Oncore board off of eBay before you try anything on your own vehicle (beyond steps 1,2, & 4). The $30 invested will help you familiarize yourself with the system and it's operation. You may even want to just use this board as a stand alone module and tuck it under the carpet on the back deck between the speakers (add another $35 for a decent GPS receive antenna). Nobody said it's against the rules to have 2 GPS receivers in your vehicle. -and besides, this way you can ask the seller what chip and version they have and be sure you get a compatible module.
If you do successfully accomplish this, I would be very interested to hear the details and the info that you discovered.
1. Verify that you have an Oncore GPS receiver.
2. Verify that the Oncore chip is a VP or GT, is version 2.0 or later, or is some other hybrid with NMEA capabilities.
3. Find a developer kit or the 'custom application' that the Motorola website talks about.
4. Find the data cables in the wiring harness. RKG stated that it's pins 2 & 3, with pin 5 as ground for a DB-9 plug. Since I don't have my paperwork on me (from working with my Garmin receiver), I'd trust RKG. It does sound right.
5. Send your command signal (or use the 'custom application') from your laptop and pray for the best.
Steps 1, 2, and 4 might be accomplished with a phone call to GM's Onstar engineering group. -but otherwise you're going to have to look at the actual chip and read the numbers off the top. If you're lucky, the engineer you'll talk to is a HAM operator who has already done this in his vehicle or assisted someone else.
I'd strongly suggest purchasing a compatible Oncore board off of eBay before you try anything on your own vehicle (beyond steps 1,2, & 4). The $30 invested will help you familiarize yourself with the system and it's operation. You may even want to just use this board as a stand alone module and tuck it under the carpet on the back deck between the speakers (add another $35 for a decent GPS receive antenna). Nobody said it's against the rules to have 2 GPS receivers in your vehicle. -and besides, this way you can ask the seller what chip and version they have and be sure you get a compatible module.
If you do successfully accomplish this, I would be very interested to hear the details and the info that you discovered.
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central150
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many..
Analog vs Digital
check this link
http://www.cingular.com/about/latest_news/02_01_16_2
Tracking on cell-phones/PCS is NOT GPS, it is GPRS, this is a system of locating a mobile by sending a timing signal, then triagulating a "fix", the system allows for a greater degree of reliabilty vs simple signal RSSI.
On-star, on the other hand, does use GPS, thus a patch antenna, this sends a GPS packet to the "helpful" reps at On-star, the radio is a motorola cell-phone, this uses the GM D-link, a propriatary "standard.
The On-star system sends an analog packet, this is sent over the voice channel, so it does not matter what the radio is, there are TDMA On-star units, there are N-AMPS units, as well as the early AMPS units.
http://www.cingular.com/about/latest_news/02_01_16_2
Tracking on cell-phones/PCS is NOT GPS, it is GPRS, this is a system of locating a mobile by sending a timing signal, then triagulating a "fix", the system allows for a greater degree of reliabilty vs simple signal RSSI.
On-star, on the other hand, does use GPS, thus a patch antenna, this sends a GPS packet to the "helpful" reps at On-star, the radio is a motorola cell-phone, this uses the GM D-link, a propriatary "standard.
The On-star system sends an analog packet, this is sent over the voice channel, so it does not matter what the radio is, there are TDMA On-star units, there are N-AMPS units, as well as the early AMPS units.
007: If the guys are right that the OnStar GPS detector is not programmed to output NEMA sentences, then tinkering with it will eliminate your OnStar capability and is likely to lead to headaches. How about just installing GPS the way most of the news vans do: a simple handheld GPS unit (stick with Garmin) on the dashboard with velcro, the Garmin interface cable, and a laptop with mapping software? The Garmin is easily programmed to output whatever NMEA sentences you want, and virtually all of the mapping programs (we use DeLorme, presently TopoUSA v. 4.0) are "plug and play" for GPS output.
The best of the Garmin handhelds was the Garmin 45, which is no longer in production but sold for under $200. It was replaced by the Garmin 48, which is also out of production but sometimes still available, particularly from marine supply houses. The newer handhelds have displays that are awfully busy (but you're not going to use the display, so who cares?) and a bit more expensive, but in the order of things, less costly than tinkering with something that will only give you headaches.
The best of the Garmin handhelds was the Garmin 45, which is no longer in production but sold for under $200. It was replaced by the Garmin 48, which is also out of production but sometimes still available, particularly from marine supply houses. The newer handhelds have displays that are awfully busy (but you're not going to use the display, so who cares?) and a bit more expensive, but in the order of things, less costly than tinkering with something that will only give you headaches.
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
RKG, just because you tap into an onboard GPS system does not mean you some how affect its "normal" factory abilities (Yep, you probably void the warranty, but when is the last time your factory GPS failed?). For instance, on the Mercedes ML 320 with its factory GPS unit, you simply piggy back 3 wires onto the factory molex connector and you have a GPS output stream. In turn, you run this through a converter box and you have NEMA 0183 V2. This output is feed to a Kenwwod D700 for APRS use. The factory Mercedes GPS functions are left completely intact. KEWL!
As to an additional onboard GPS unit, sure they are cheap, but now you have more garbage in your nice car, not to mention the mess with the external GPS antenna, and trying to get the coax into the vehicle with a water tight seal. The GPS antenna inside the car makes for a mess, and is not reliable in terms of its performance.
JM2C,
Larry
As to an additional onboard GPS unit, sure they are cheap, but now you have more garbage in your nice car, not to mention the mess with the external GPS antenna, and trying to get the coax into the vehicle with a water tight seal. The GPS antenna inside the car makes for a mess, and is not reliable in terms of its performance.
JM2C,
Larry
On-star hacking
Hello.
The GM D-Link system is not that complex.
I was told that several techs have tapped into the On-Star GPS, both by connecting the interface to the GPS radio, as well as a connection to the On-Star unit itself.
The On-Star system was developed by Houghs electronics and aerospace,
I recommend the service manual for the On-Star system, it has all the pin outs, including a buffered test point on the GPS unit, I do not know what protocol it outputs, but it also has 3 pins, perhaps something in common with the Mercedes?.
The GM D-Link system is not that complex.
I was told that several techs have tapped into the On-Star GPS, both by connecting the interface to the GPS radio, as well as a connection to the On-Star unit itself.
The On-Star system was developed by Houghs electronics and aerospace,
I recommend the service manual for the On-Star system, it has all the pin outs, including a buffered test point on the GPS unit, I do not know what protocol it outputs, but it also has 3 pins, perhaps something in common with the Mercedes?.
Cheap GPS
Hello, again.
The easy, cheap solution?.
http://www.delorme.com/gps.htm
I picked an earthmate unit up, close-out, one of the office supply places, can not remember what one, grand total, $6.99, or there abouts.
This was in the discount software bin, bought the 2 remaining units, the cable that connects to the computer costs that much.
The only gripe I have is that the earthmate runs on batteries, not powered by the port.
The thing is not quite NEMA, but there are "patches" that you can run for most software.
I hope you have fun, I did, and the thing, as well as giving me a chance to learn,cheaply, is portable.
Thank You.
The easy, cheap solution?.
http://www.delorme.com/gps.htm
I picked an earthmate unit up, close-out, one of the office supply places, can not remember what one, grand total, $6.99, or there abouts.
This was in the discount software bin, bought the 2 remaining units, the cable that connects to the computer costs that much.
The only gripe I have is that the earthmate runs on batteries, not powered by the port.
The thing is not quite NEMA, but there are "patches" that you can run for most software.
I hope you have fun, I did, and the thing, as well as giving me a chance to learn,cheaply, is portable.
Thank You.
The folks around here who have these installations (mostly news photographers and ENG vans) do not use outside antennas; just a handheld GPS receiver velcro'd to the dashboard, and the performance of these units is just fine. The Garmin data cable has four connectors: two for data, one for B+ and one for shared ground, and can easily be wired into a DC power supply in the car (or, for that matter, a cigarette lighter plug). The other end of the Garmin cable plugs into the serial port of a laptop and, presto, you have instantly available GPS data. And you have it in a very usable form, namely a map (with both road data and geodetic data) on which a pointer representing your rig is placed right where you are (and moves when you do). Moreover, if you use the map program to create a route for you, or just to plot a route you have created, the route will be highlighted on the map and you can see each turn as you are approaching it. At that same time, you can plot a "waypoint," such as the location of the nearest microwave tower for feedback to the station, and a little box on the screen will show you real time range and bearing to that tower, which permits instant aiming of the goldenrods. If need be, the whole installation can be unplugged and moved from one rig to another, and in the process, you haven't tinkered with, potentially corrupted, and potentially voided the warranty on your OnStar unit.
The DeLorme program is particularly useful for fire photographers, since in my area, fire box locations are related to street intersections. The DeLorme database has a search routine pre-programmed for street intersections. When the box is announced for "High and Oliver Streets" in Peabody, just enter "high st" and "oliver st", press search, press "designate as end", press "route" and designate "here" as "start", and just that fast the system will route you to the fire.
Now, while it is true enough that most folks don't worry about neatness in company rigs, a number of the senior photogs are issued unmarked Tahoes or Crown Vics, which they also use for personal conveyance, and these guys do care about neatness, and the installations are not all that intrusive. The hardest parts are (i) figuring out where and how to mount the laptop, and (ii) keeping your eyes on the road while driving.
The DeLorme program is particularly useful for fire photographers, since in my area, fire box locations are related to street intersections. The DeLorme database has a search routine pre-programmed for street intersections. When the box is announced for "High and Oliver Streets" in Peabody, just enter "high st" and "oliver st", press search, press "designate as end", press "route" and designate "here" as "start", and just that fast the system will route you to the fire.
Now, while it is true enough that most folks don't worry about neatness in company rigs, a number of the senior photogs are issued unmarked Tahoes or Crown Vics, which they also use for personal conveyance, and these guys do care about neatness, and the installations are not all that intrusive. The hardest parts are (i) figuring out where and how to mount the laptop, and (ii) keeping your eyes on the road while driving.
OnStar Question
I have OnStar in my Chevy Suburban but I dont subscribe to the service. The fee is a little steep for how little we use the vehicle, the phone is fixed, and we already have portable phones. Anyway If I wreck the truck, the airbags go off, will OnStar still call some one or am I SOL because I am not a member?
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Dale Earnhardt
- Posts: 848
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:00 pm