Problem a5 spectra

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:35 pm

Trying to an A5 spectra to work correctly. Radio was originally a remote mount with the systems 9000 cable.

Converted it to dash mount and now it won't power up. I can put an A9 head on it and it will power up and of course display fail 1/90

Unfortunately I don't have any remote mount A5 heads around that accept the Systems 9000 cable.

Any clue why this thing won't power up?

I've tried multiple A5 and A7 control heads that work on several other radios, not on this one.

FYI, its not obvious things like the reverse polarity diode in the radio or the control heads.

Post by **batdude** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:10 pm

which interconnect board are you using???

d

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:27 pm

HLN6285 which works in all the other dashmount radios I have.

Model of the radio is D44KMA7JA5BK so its not a remote only configuration. I have various ages of spectras sitting here from early to late 90's and this is the only radio this interconnect board doesn't work in.

I was aware if there are interconnect board issues it will show up as constant transmit when used with the wrong head.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:09 pm

Did you remember to supply B+ to Pin 5 of the accessory connector; this is necessary for dash mount Spectra's to power up?

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Dec 25, 2002 10:26 pm

yes of course. I have a whole fleet of spectra mobiles to deal with. I'm starting to think the command board is bad.

copcarguy · Post by **copcarguy** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:18 am

The first letter in the model # you gave is a "D". D=dash, not "T" for trunk.(or remote)

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:55 am

Gentlemen, I think you're missing the problem here.

I have plenty of spectra experience. I know the various models and condfigurations. This is not a model # issue as the lo and mid power units can be changed from dash to remote and vice versa with simplicity.

The only spectra radios that are strictly remote mount are the 110w models.

Basically, I can not get this radio to power up at all.

All the proper connections are good, I've verified the functionality of the interconnect boards and control head on other radios and I know for a fact I'm gettind 12vdc in to the radio. Protection diodes are not open either.

All I can think is its a bad command board.

copcarguy · Post by **copcarguy** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 8:43 am

Im sorry if I offended you, its just that your first line of your post says that "it origionally was a trunk mount",, that cant be true if the model # starts with a "D". someone has been hacking into that radio and thats important to know if you want people on this board to help you..

eacradio · Post by **eacradio** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:46 am

If you have the spectra lab program, you have to go in and tell it to change heads to a standard head, then you can change it to the A5 front head. When the unit had the 9000 series head on it, it keeps looking for that head information and will not come up until you tell it to change heads.

Danny

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:12 pm

Generally, when I have made a switch with a spectra from trunk to dash mount or vice versa and have a 01/90. I usually look for the main power cable to be the problem, you are getting accessory power if you have the display on the head. Common places to look are... bad ground, no 12V+, the actual molded connector being bad, I have also seen the wires on the connector inside the PA bad or disconnected, I would most likely bench it and verify you have the proper voltage on the command board as outlined in your service manual. If it's not there, it is between the PA and the command board. It is most likely an easy fix. If you wish, you can send it to me, and I can look at it, or, offer any advice when you get into it and tell me what voltages you have at points on the command board, worsecase, I have a couple of extra command boards with MLM's that I can make available to get you running, but I don't feel it is a command board problem.

SG

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 7:57 am

If the radio shows a 01/90 regardless of which head is put on it , you have a bad MLM or command board.

If you have another Spectra , try swapping the MLM. If the radio stays on and you get a Fail 999, then change the serial # in the service section and see what happens. If the radio stays on and you get a Fail 001, (because the new MLM was from another band)
then the original MLM is scrambled.

If you put the new MLM in the radio and you still get a 01/90, you have a bad command board.

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 8:52 am

01/90 can be a bad MLM or command board OR a power problem, we have over 800 Spectra's in service that we maintain, we also generally tend to diagnose the problem BEFORE we start changing parts, I know board level repair may be a bit much for some, it is a common thing in our shop, I like the challenge of actually finding the problem, as opposed to finding a general location of where the problem lies. I will still speculate that the issue at hand is a power problem, mostly because the radio WAS working when it was changed to a dash mount from a trunk mount unit.
The original post does not say that the radio was re-programmed after changing the mounting of it, so I seriously doubt that the MLM got corrupted, you are also referring to using LAB software on a radio, which I and others would recommend against.

SG

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:27 pm

As I read the original post, he claims that when he puts the 9000 head back on it still reads Fail 01/90 and since you cannot put a 9000 head directly onto a dashmount without the cable, you would have to assume that the radio had the problem to begin with.

By swapping the boards in the manner which I layed out in my previous post, this will make a quick determination as to the location of the problem.

Should a new MLM board be put into the problem radio and it works, then the problem is in the MLM.

If it does not work and a new command board is swaped and then it works with the old MLM then it is the command board.

Most of the boardmembers here probly do not have access and the technical back ground to do a bench tech diagnoses of a Spectra and if they did, they probly would not be asking for tips to revive or trouble shoot thier radio.

As always in many of my past posts and replies, I have always advised not to alter or hack a Spectra unless you are willing to spend time and money on trial and error. I have played with Spectras for almost 10 years and have been able to upgrade over 400 command boards and MLM boards and it came form a lot of practice. I have been thinking about putting a Spectra upgrade kit together complete with step by step directions and all the firmware I have recorded and archived along with bitbang codes.

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:25 pm

apco25 wrote:Trying to an A5 spectra to work correctly. Radio was originally a remote mount with the systems 9000 cable.

Converted it to dash mount and now it won't power up. I can put an A9 head on it and it will power up and of course display fail 1/90

Unfortunately I don't have any remote mount A5 heads around that accept the Systems 9000 cable.

Any clue why this thing won't power up?

I've tried multiple A5 and A7 control heads that work on several other radios, not on this one.

FYI, its not obvious things like the reverse polarity diode in the radio or the control heads.

From his original post, I do not see where the radio ever had a sys 9000 head on it, so he did not put one "back on", he just put one on, you are also speculating that the radio didn't work from the get go, I am thinking that it did, since he said after changing it to a dash mount, it comes up with that fail code.

Sure, you can swap parts, or you can troubleshoot the problem, the choice is yours.

As far as a Spectra upgrade kit, there are certain bits that can only be changed by burning and replacing chips, bin files and the like, any other way than that is a hack job, pure and simple.

I am not syaing that swapping boards will not fix the problem, but it won't tell you what was wrong specifically and what may have caused the problem which could lead to the same thing happening all over again.

SG

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:32 pm

I'll clarify the issues again.

Here is the model # D44KMA7JA5BK
serial # 617HQY***

Radio is NOT in a vehicle

Radio was configured as an A5 remote mount radio, like all MID power radios its a D series model #, not a T. SpectraGod, Metro and myself know this.

Radio will not power up in the remote A5 configuration with either the old style remote cable OR the systems 9000 remote cable

Radio is getting 12vdc from a good, stable bench power supply. Connections are good and verified to have 12vdc present. As stated above reserve polarity protection in the radio and the control head is not open.

I used the A9 head just to see if it would power up at all, it does with Fail 1/90, can't read with RSS busy line locked. I just tried the head for the heck of it, I didn't expect it to work correctly. I know you can't run A9 on an A5 radio.

Any other configuration, either as remote or dashmount using the correct remote cable, interface board and control head results in NO POWER UP.
so there are NO fail codes present with the a5 head, its just DEAD!

I have not had a chance to go through and check the appropriate locations between the PA and the command board yet dc present.

I suspect the command or MLM board, but this is the first spectra I've encountered that is truly dead. I was just trying to accertain if maybe there is some incompatible hardware config going on here before going into the process of diagnosing it.

I will try the board swappin method to get a quick idea if it will power up then go further in the diagnosis. If I can't get it going, its either getting replaced, depot or I'll have one of you two take a look at it.

FYI, we don't hack or alter anything here... I find the practice unethical and just asking for problems.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:50 pm

Well, for what its worth went through and checked out the unit. proper voltages are where they should be yet it still won't power up.

Bad part is I deteted a faint smell of burnt electronic plastic coming from the command board near the accessory connector. I don't see any obvious signs of something smoking, but I can sure smell it.

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:01 am

there is one other thing you may want to check. The ribbon cable between the PA deck, and the Command board. I have had some problems with them going bad.

spectragod, swapping the boards is just a way of determining which board the problem is at before going through the entire radio looking for the problem. As I stated before, most here on the board probly do not have a complete tech bench with manuals and skills to approach every radio as an experienced tech might, and with the price of spectras on ebay , especialy the 900's, it is probly cheaper buy a parts radio to replace the board rather than send it back to M or any repair shop.

If one so chooses to do a repair on a particular board, they would also need the experience and understanding of layered boards and good soldering techniques so as not to destroy the inner layers if the device happens to be one which is appllied through all layers such as the audio device on the command board.

As far as the hacking or bit banging go, do you honestly beleive that Motorola builds each MLM or command board from scratch one at a time each particular radio. I doubt it. The MLM's are put together completely blank without ant logic what so ever. Then they download the firmware accordingly and when special features are requested, they bitbang accordingly to fit the customers requests, so what is the difference between Motorola doing this or myslef or anyone else that has the experience to do this in the same manner which Motorola does. Call it hacking if you wish, that is definitly what it is but then again , that is why most everyone that visit this board .

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:51 pm

OK, from the first post, I took that the radio was working before the switchover AND that you got the fail code on the A5 head as well as the A9 head, since that is not how it is, I will probably lean more towards a board problem, still, out of all the units we have in service, the only ones I have seen with board problems are ones that have had liquid spilled into the fronts of them or have been submerged.

As Metro sates, the ribbon from the PA to command board may be bad, I have changed several of those out as well, although if you can smell burnt anything, I would disassemble the PA as well as the rest of the radio to determine the source.

As far as Motorola building from srcatch, yes they do, the MLM's and command boards have not been initialized, hence they are blank, unless you have some whiz bang way of blanking the required chips and loading BIN files to them, you are hacking the radio, M bitbangs individual entities radio's, which then become SP models and usually require special software. The only reason I bring this up is because from the sounds of it, Apco is either a gov't entity or a business, either way, hacked radio's won't make the grade in that environment.

And yes, the reason all of us are on this board is for tech, myself as well, you can never stop learning something new.

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:38 pm

Between the MLM and Command boards, there is only one chip on each that is EEPROM. I have submitted a more descriptive explaination of the MLM and it has been posted on the Spectra model definition in batlabs. The command board can also be upgraded in a similar manner however I am probly one of the very few if not the only one , (at least on this board) that has disected a command board and can now up grade the earlier command boards that will not support all the features even if you order one from M.

I have also started deciffering the Spectra II boards and will soon be able to upgrade any MLM controled Spectra to do SMARTZONE which at this time I believe is only supported by the Spectra II.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:13 pm

ah the wonders and secrets of the spetra radios

FYI, GOV here not a shop and yes hacked radios will not cut it with our dept and operations.

For the heck of it will go see if I can find what I can smell as burnt. Already got 2 replacement radios on the way though.

One other question:

We've got a bunch of C2 control stations in a mobile command vehicle. Back during hot weather some of the radios would occationally display fail 001 for a while and then be fine.

Seemed like a thermal problem, but I could never duplicate it. My other thought was maybe low voltage causing the synth to go out of lock.

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:40 am

both will cause the same problem. I have seen the same problem in our CSR vehicle on occasion. It is an older vehicle and will sometimes sit for a couple of weeks not being used. The display will some times come up 001 but in our situation, I would believe it is a low voltage problem since it happens more often during the winter than summer and we usually end up jump starting the vehicle after it has sat a couple of weeks.

In your case , I would believe it is a thermal problem somewhere since it occurs in the summer time.

It could also be a week voltage control device in the radio. It is an occassional common problem.

PS , The lights on the vehicle are also dim for a few minutes untill the battery reaches a full charge.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:06 am

Fail 001 only came up about 3 times over the summer on extremely hot days and then we never saw it again. Our rig also sits for quite a bit of time, but it is on a shore line system. I just think the console areas the radios are in just got too warm with the rig being parked out in the direct sun and the internal AC system couldn't keep up.

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:59 am

You gotta admit, the MCS2000 could not take that kind of abuse and be echonomicly repairable.

I'll take Spectras, Maxtracs, Maratracs, GM300's, and Syntor X9000's over any of the new sh*t that Monkeyrola has been cheating the consumers with lately.

I wonder sometimes when I see "MEETS MILSPECS" on the new Motorola JUNK. Which "MILSPECS" are they referring to....., IRAQ???

ricciticcitembo · Post by **ricciticcitembo** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:24 pm

HAHAHA. I agree

And I sent my Spectra to Will for a head conversion. It was too tricky for me, and also my radio was deaf. I do not have any experience with Spectra's and thought that was the best way.

After reading this thread I'm real glad I sent it out.

Ed Bush · Post by **Ed Bush** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:43 pm

Hello
I had the same problem with the Spectra reading FL 01/90 took my radio setup to the local M shop and all he did was to put the 15 pin plug in the radio without hooking any acc to it and the radio worked fine after that also a dash mount converted to a rear mount Hope this helps
Ed

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:58 pm

Thanks, but we're WAY beyond the simple mistake. Something IS wrong with this radio, bad command board unless I find out its the flex or I find the burnt component.

Problem a5 spectra

Problem a5 spectra

interconnect?

reply

Sorry, But the first line..

Re: Problem a5 spectra