Radius M1225 Software Issues

[yagermeister]

I'm trying to get some M1225s programmed for a friend, and cannot get the software to install correctly. I'm working with an old IBM PS / Valuepoint 80486 computer, running at 50 MHz I think. It has DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 installed on it. I'm trying to install Version 3.1 Release Build 2 while running on the WIndows 3.1 platform. I get all the way thru the installation process, and get the message "Windows Is Registering Installed Components". At that point, the computer just hangs, and will go no further. I've gone thru the process several times with the same result. I have several old Windows XP desktop computers also, but I understand that only Version 4.0 will work with XP and I don't have that version. I also have several Toshiba Satellite 80486 laptops, but the floppy drives have quit working on them and I have no way to try to install the software to see if it works on them. I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what it is.

[Jim202]

I could be wrong, but I suspect the software will only run in DOS. Been a long time since I have programmed those radios.

You will also need a RIB (radio interface box) to translate the serial port of the computer to the signal levels the radio understands. A cable to go between the RIB and the computer. Then a cable between the RIB and the radio. In many cases, if your decent with a soldering iron, you can make the cable between the radio and the RIB, as well as the cable between the computer and the RIB. The connectors are standard ones that are available from a number of places that sell electronics parts.

Another problem is that DOS can only function on a hard drive of 80 GB or smaller. I have dual booted a larger hard drive and made the DOS partition an 80 GB size and left the remains of the larger hard drive for Windows. Then use a floppy to get it to boot up in the DOS mode.

One other issue that could throw a monkey wrench into the picture is that DOS does not like to use these older Motorola software ware programs in computers running a clock speed much over 900 MHz.

Given these limitations, you might be able to make it work.

I tend to go visit the older computer repair stores in my area now and then and ask them what they are throwing out. I have picked up some fine computers that will run these DOS programs over time. The older computers do fail and the more spares I have the better off I feel. The failures are generally are due to the caps on the mother board going bad due to shorting out.

Jim

[yagermeister]

Hi Jim:
I suspect you're right about the capacitors going bad on my laptops, and that being why the floppy drives quit working. I'm trying to install on a slow 80486 IBM desktop computer, running around 50 MHz CPU speed. It definitely isn't too fast. Not sure why the install goes all the way thru then hangs when it says "Setup is Registering Installed Files". The computer locks up there, and the only way out is to CTRL-ALT-DEL to reboot the computer. Something is wrong, but don't know what. After a reboot, the program isn't installed.

[yagermeister]

Forgot to list that I'm using a Motorola RIB and Motorola cables. RIB to radio cable is an OEM Motorola cable that's made for Maxtrac, GM-300s, etc., that has the RJ-45 connector on one end and a small box with a BNC connector on it in the middle. I think the BNC connector is for connecting to a Service Monitor for alignment.

[PETNRDX]

I didn't think M1225 worked on anything earlier than Win 98.
I don't even think it worked on Win 95.
And I am pretty darn sure it would not work on Win 3.1.
Does it say it will work on 3.1?
I distinctly remember having to maintain a WIN 98 laptop for a long time, and I think it was for M1225 / P1225's.
I had to do that for many years until I had a reason to get M1225 for WIN XP.

[yagermeister]

The release notes for Ver. 3.1 say it will work with Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11 or Windows 95. I tried installing it on a Windows 3.1 IBM desktop running an 80486 CPU at 50 MHz. It installs until it hangs when the message "Setup is Registering Installed Files". CTRL-ALT-DEL is needed to free the computer up. Not sure what's going on there. Ultimately, the program doesn't show up in program files after this. I tried running Ver. 3.1 on a Windows XP machine (AMD Athlon) running in Compatibility Mode for Windows 95 and Windows 98, but the software doesn't see the RIB or radio. Tried all 4 COM ports. I've seen that Version 4.0 of the M1225 software works in XP, but I'm not exactly sure what Version 4.0 is. I tried running CPS Rev 04.00.00 but it only shows COM 1 as an option and doesn't see the RIB either. I suspect that this software isn't the Version 4.0 for M1225s but I'm not sure. I'm running an OEM RIB and all OEM cables; RIB to radio is a Maxtrac / GM300 cable with the box in the middle with a BNC connector, I assume for doing radio alignment work. I just keep hitting dead ends and am about to give up. I'll bet the Version 3.1 would work on my Toshiba Satellite T2100CT laptops, but both of them have had floppy disc drive failures, so I can't load the software. Coming here is my last hope for figuring the problem out.

[arlojanis]

I have Radius 1225 version 4.0 on my Windows 98 desktop computer and program works ok. Just before software starts, I get an error message and I click ignore and everything is good afterwards.

[jackhackett]

I've got 3.1 running fine here on a 486 with Windows 95, so that's definitely possible.

[yagermeister]

Am I correct that Radius 1225 Ver. 4.0 isn't the same software as CPS R04.00.00?

[Karl NVW]

I can confirm that Radius 1225 Ver. 4.0 Radio Service Software (aka RSS) is absolutely NOT the same as CPS R04.00.00

[yagermeister]

Karl:
Thank you for confirming that. I suspect my only hope of programming these radios, especially since they were used in a logging truck fleet and I know nothing of their programming history, is to try with M1225 Rev. 4.0 on my Windows XP machine, since I can't get Rev. 3.1 to install on my Windows 3.11 computer. Motorola Solutions told me today they no longer have M1225 Rev. 4.0 available, and I can't seem to find it anywhere else. I'm beginning to think that my friend getting 10 or 12 or these for $20 each may not have been such a good deal after all. It's too bad because the radios look in good condition, and he was going to give them to new hams in his area to use on 2M and also for Search and Rescue for those involved.

[PETNRDX]

20 bucks each is a great deal.
Even if you had to pay a little to get them programmed.

[yagermeister]

You're absolutely right, especially when you consider the original price and the build quality. I'm just trying to save him some money on the project. Do you know of a shop in the Pacific Northwest that does Motorola programming?

[PETNRDX]

I sent you a PM.

[Satelite]

Hello yagermeister
If You pay shipping both ways ill program them for you free as long as you have the license for the freqs or if you want some for receive only I can set tx on that ch to blank no transmit.
Ill need the list of freqs wanted and tone or dpl if any.
Ill program and calibrate on freq only no repairs offered.
PM any qestions
Satelite

[Jim202]

One other thought that just came to me is to use a small program called "CACHEOFF.EXE" before you try to run the M1225 software.

This program can be found by doing a search on the internet. Download it and put it in the M1225 directory so you can find it. Then run it before starting the M1225 program. What it does is shut off any cache that may be running in your computer. I have to do this with a number of the Motorola radio software that run in DOS.

Sorry I did not think of this before.

Jim

[yagermeister]

Satelite:
Where are you located? The radios are in S.W. WA and most likely would have to be shipped. Don't think that 8 of these in a large Priority Mail box would get bounced around enough to be a problem if properly packed. Should probably be double boxed as well to be safe. I'm still working with the owner of the radios to see if he wants to ship them somewhere. I thought I could do the programming and I've had nothing but problem after problem with the project, from failed disc drives to software that won't install.

[Satelite]

Hello yagermeister
Im located in NW Iowa
Ill be absent to the daughters till Monday so if you reply and I don't ITS BECAUSE SHE DONE KILLED ME
Ill be back Monday the 29th and check in.
Satelite

[Satelite]

Hello
Checking in and see no reply or pm so im assuming not needing any help now .
Satelite

[yagermeister]

Happy you made it back from your daughter's OK:) I honestly don't know what to say about the radios. I don't know if he doesn't want to ship them or what, so I'm not worrying about it much more. I spent way too much time trying to get RSS running to program them myself. If I hear anything I'll let you know. I think he was trying to find someone local to program them, but I don't know if there is anyone that can do them. I do appreciate your offer. I know from firsthand experience it can be time consuming to do just a few radios.

[train_radio_guy]

I realize it's been nearly 9-months since you last posted. How did things play-out with your friend, & his M1225 radios? Just curious.

- trg / Paul,

[yagermeister]

Sorry for no updates. Gave up on running the old 80486 machine in DOS or trying to run a version with Windows 3.1 on the same machine, IBM PS Valuepoint, 80486 CPU at 50 MHz. Thru information here I was finally successful getting permission to use the version of M1225 software that Motorola still has. They don't have many softwares like that so I was lucky. Got it to run fine on a Windows XP machine, and did program one of my friend's radios. There's still 10 or 12 more to do but he has many projects going on usually. I was just happy to finally get some success. It was a bit of a process getting the permission from Motorola, and took a bit of a wait, 2 weeks I think, but finally it came thru. I read all of their rules and documents and will most assuredly abide by them. There are other radio and software manuals available there also. This is one of those times being persistent paid off. I won't say how many times it hasn't:)

[train_radio_guy]

When I worked for a railroad some 20 years ago, we had a few M1225 installed... mostly in supervisors' vehicles. To program them, we had a couple of machines. In the radio shop, we had an older 386DX running DOS 6.22 & Windows 3.11. In the field, we had laptops, loaded with Windows 95. As for the RSS, I believe it was Version 3.1 Release Build 2, from 1999.

To service these radios, one of these two machines is best to have on-hand. Unfortunately, as time progresses, it's probably going to be harder to support them. If time allows, I post some older working laptops on the selling forum. My wife has been on me to clean things out, so this Spring I may do just that. More to come on that one.

At any rate, I'm glad to hear you were able to work things out on the RSS. Out of pure curiosity, which version did Motorola sell you, and how much are they charging these days? To be honest, I'm surprised they even offered the RSS, for the older radios. Their mantra was to always push the new stuff, & walk away from the legacy products. Sadly, support for the older radio gear has not been their strong suit.

[yagermeister]

I'd have to check which RSS version it is. No charge at all. It is posted under Legacy software I believe. It was the last version they released. From what I saw, it is the only older RSS they had you could download for free. I have to fill out some online forms to get permissions to use their business portion of the Motorola Solutions. I programmed on M1225 using it and an old desktop running Windows XP. I was told that the version that ran on DOS you simply can't find anymore and the one that ran on Windows 3.1 was very finicky as to what it would and would not run on. Heard this from a guy who has 10-20 thousand dollars worth of test equipment like service monitors and works on older Motorola radios. He did it for a law enforcement agency before. I have two Toshiba Satellite T2100CT laptops running Windows 6.1 with 80486 CPUs running at most 50 MHz. For some reason, one or both of them have failed 3/5" floppy disk drives on them. I would love to get something to replace them as I have a bunch of Radius and Maxtrac radios that I program them with. I also have two IBM PS Valuepoint desktops with 80486 CPUs running DOS 6.1 and Windows 3.1. The older software you mentioned would install until it got to the final step and then the computer would just stop responding so you have to kill the process. Frustrating. Maybe software tweaks would work, I don't know. The latest version with Windows XP worked very well. I do have two Windows XP desktops but one of them is messed up. I don't remember what CPUs they have. They are post Pentium CPUs I believe. If you have any laptops running DOS 6.1 (or 6.22, I don't remember) with good floppy drives I'd be interested in them. I mainly program radios for other people with these old systems. I have a bunch of MT series and about 4 JT-1000s. Many of the MT and MTS with front display have pixel issues but I've saved new front panels and know how to replace them. I like the MTS-2000 Model 1 with the top displays. They're easier to use portable or mobile. Please keep me in mind if you do excess some of your laptops.

[train_radio_guy]

It was probably after I left the railroad, but I remember one of my friends, who was still working at the radio shop mentioning the M1225 & the finicky software. Back in the late 1990's, we had lots of radios to maintain, just in Motorola Products, we supported the railroad-flavor of the Spectra, HT1000s, Genesis Series (i.e. MT1000s, HT600s, & P200s) radios, & M1225s. The railroad had a subscription with Motorola, to get regular updates, as part of its contract. So whenever a new version came-out, we receive the updated software. Through my run, most everything was backward compatible; meaning we could use the various versions of RSS, with no problem. Well that remained true, until they received the next version of RSS for the M1225. That was the first radio they had, when once programmed with a newer version of the RSS, would not work with the older RSS. I assume this was Motorola guaranteeing a revenue stream from its customers. At any rate, it was after I left, but I think the railroad had received Verison 4.0 of the RSS, sometime after 2000. I would guess that it ran on Windows 2000/XP, judging by the time-frame in which it was released. So it probably resolved some of the bugs/glitches in previous version(s) of the RSS, but that also meant the newly programmed radios would only work with the new software.

I suspect this is why so many shops (outside of the railroad), were forced to either maintain more than one computer, in order to retain the ability to program both old & new radios, or simply discontinue support of the older radio equipment. Around 2010, the radio shop at my former railroad still had a DOS/Windows 3.11 PC, for supporting the older radios. Sadly, it finally 'gave-up the ghost', and the railroad elected not to repair it, since they only had a handful of older radios on-hand, which still required the older software. As time progresses, and parts become scarce, I suspect maintaining a computer for the older radio gear will only become increasingly harder. And that will probably spell the end of supported many of the older radios - not just Motorola, but also the likes of GE/Ericsson, and probably many others.

[yagermeister]

Just checked and the M1225 available under legacy software is:
Radius 1225 Conventional (18 Jan 2011 Zip File 6MB)
Customer Programming Software
Part Number: HVN9054
Product Applicability: M1255
I'd have to run the computer to see what release version it says, but as far as I know it was the last release. It works very well on a Windows XP machine.

[yagermeister]

If you do decide to part with some of your older programming platforms, like DOS or early version Windows laptops please put something on the thread we have here. I haven't been checking the equipment for sale or equipment wanted nearly as regularly as when all of the old JT, MT, MTS and other radios were making way for the new P25 radios in Public Service applications. I had the good fortune of finding more than a few of those here myself. I'm still doing programming for friends occasionally and unfortunately lost both 3 1/2" floppy disc drives access the last 6 months or so. There are ways to load files onto the computers still but I like being able to save the codeplugs of any radios I work on onto a floppy disc for future use, in case the computer crashes or hard drive quits working. Have been lucky so far; haven't bricked a radio yet and haven't needed to pull up a codeplug to save a radio but you just never know. I may be able to come up with some trade you'd like for one of you laptops. I get notifications if something is added onto this thread and might miss things on the equipment for sale / trade.

[train_radio_guy]

I do believe, that I've still got a VHF & UHF, 22-ch M1225 mobile radio, still packed away from our move. Those radios were able to support the new 'narrow-band' FM, so it might be worth my while to get an old PC or laptop setup, so I can program them. I've got other legacy radios (i.e. Genesis Series Gear, GP300s, etc...). I need to get it out of storage, and decide what's staying, and what needs to go. Unfortunately, I've been busy with job & family stuff, so my free time is fleeting.

When I get the chance to go through the laptops, I'll see what I have, and what is still in working order. I remember there were some old Texas Instruments & HP Omnibooks in the boxes. The TI supported DOS, and perhaps Windows 3.1/3.11, while the Omnibooks would run Windows 95/98SE. I hope to go through some of it as time allows. I know my wife would be thrilled to see this stuff move, but there's only so much time in the day!

When I'm getting ready to post any of this, I'll PM you.

Thanks,

- trg/Paul

[SteveC0625]

Just checked and the M1225 available under legacy software is:
Radius 1225 Conventional (18 Jan 2011 Zip File 6MB)
Customer Programming Software
Part Number: HVN9054
Product Applicability: M1255
I'd have to run the computer to see what release version it says, but as far as I know it was the last release. It works very well on a Windows XP machine.

If you look under Discontinued Software on MOL, you’ll find Version 4.0 in LS and Conventional flavors plus an older 3.xx. The you mention is 4.0 and runs well on XP.

[PETNRDX]

Train_radio_guy: Both Gary and I are looking for computers that work for the old stuff. He and I have both had laptops fail in the last year or
so. And I am betting there are others in the same boat. I work on hundreds of Genesis radios every year. One of my favorites. And dozens of Maxtrac and Radius M-100. Few M-400 and Maratrac's. Even Syntor X-9000. So I really want to keep a couple extra computers for that stuff.

[train_radio_guy]

Just remember, once the M1225 is programmed with a new version of the RSS, it can no longer be programmed by a previous (older) version of the software. I believe one of the local 2-way shops in my area, still has an older WXP PC, for programming some of the older radio gear, although they're always reluctant to turn it on, unless it's 'justified' or at least that's what they tell me, whenever the subject of programming arises. I suppose I can see their point, since keeping the older computers running, gets increasingly harder as they get older, & parts sources become scarce.

Programming radios was much easier in the past, when I still worked for a railroad. Our supervisor was a Ham, so he turned a 'blind eye' to us bringing-in a radio of our own to program, so long as it didn't interfere with our job duties, and wasn't a daily thing. Government work used to a no-brainier. Looking back, I realize how lucky we really were!

[train_radio_guy]

PETNRDX: For ease of repair, would it be better to focus on a small desktops that will run either DOS/Win 3.1/3.11 or Win95/98SE, or would you prefer to stay with laptops? I ask since it's easier to source parts for desktops, than laptops, which can be a proprietary nightmare, with their specialized parts & pieces. I also realize shipping on a PC can be cost prohibitive, but I thought it was still worth mentioning.

I figured there's got to be a market for the older computers, and it beats the stuff getting recycled, or a one-way trip to the dump. I'll try to go through things, and post what I have. I'm probably going to run them through their paces, & give them the old 'burn-in test', just to make sure they're still in good working order, before I put them out there. More to come......

[PETNRDX]

Its been easier to use laptops for me. My bench has so much test equipment, there has never been room for a "permanent" desktop. But it might be time for me to change that. Also, if the radio is already installed in a veh, laptop is MUCH easier to move. Again, maybe time
to come up with "work arounds" for that. If I could get a "desktop" that was verified to run such things as RADMBL and MARATRAC AND to be able to actually program those radios (not just run the RSS) I would buy one if not too expensive to buy and ship. Shipping just the computer "chassis" and not the monitor is probably the way to go. Finding 386-SX in the 25 mhz or less is getting difficult.

[train_radio_guy]

Over the years, my concept of what works has evolved, depending on my needs & what functions best. When it comes to keeping a working machine 'alive', for legacy Commercial Radios (i.e. Motorola, G.E./Ericsson, Kenwood, & Icom) it's been an act of determination & 'love'. My system is comprised of DOS 6.22/Windows 3.11 for the OS, running on a 386DX-40MHz processor, with a 387 math co-processor, 20MB of RAM, & a 400MB Hard Disk. Over time, I've replaced the Lithium BIOS battery more than once, upgraded the hard drive, replaced the floppy drive, and the usual TLC associated with computers. The operating system, as well as the applications have been archived, initially on floppy disks, Iomega Zip Disks, CDs, and finally flash media.

I've read where some folks have had success, with replacing the mechanical hard drive with compact flash memory. However, there are BIOS issues that may arise depending on the manufacturer, plus it can be 'glitchy', which concerns me regarding radio read/write cycles. If things would happen glitch at the wrong time, it could brick the radio - permanently.

As for laptops, either Compaq or Toshiba of the correct vintage, have both proven to be reliable systems. Although they're rare these days, both manufacturers had docking stations, which made these laptops great desktops, including expansion slots, a secondary hard drive, and a full array of ports.

[Jim202]

OK, don't yell at me, I know this is a really old topic. But I have found that dropping by the local computer stores, especially the older computer repair stores have been a treasure hunt for me over the years. I end up putting in a small hard drive and see if the computer will function after loading Windows of some version that matches the computer ability. If it crashes, it becomes spare parts. Generally the power supplies are good, the floppy drives are good and the CD drives are good. Pull the memory, board jumpers and junk the rest. Keep the metal chassis and the heat sinks, plus the fans. The metal goes to the scrap yard for a return of a few buck. The plastic goes out with my normal trash.

Over time you can collect a good supply of replaceable parts. Plus you can end up with some nice computers in the process.

I have found that some of the power supplies have enough output current at 12 volts to run a dash mount radio. Just put a small jumper between the small green wire on the mother board connector and the black wire next to it and it will power up.

I have ended up with both IDE and SATA connector CD drives and even some SATA floppy drives. But the SATA floppies are not normal on the computers being tossed out.

Some of the computers have even been 64 bit computers.

So you never know what treasures that can be found. Just takes walking in and asking what they are tossing out. Have even run across older computers that have slow enough clocks to be able to run DOS on. Those generally will have the old off white colored cases.

Good luck on your searching around for some of the treasures that can be had.

Jim

[train_radio_guy]

Since we're talking about getting a computer that works effectively with the M1225 RSS, I don't think you're terribly off-topic.

In my research for locating computers that reliably support the older RSS & CPS, long-term mom & pop computer shops are definitely a good option - when you can find them. I had a shop in my home town, that was more than happy to off-load old RAM SIMMs, 286/386/486 Processors, Hard Drives under 10GB, and much more for free. They had accumulated many things over the years (dating back to the late 1970's), and were exiting the business - as in retirement. It was an awesome score, for those that have the space & time, to inherit & go through, legacy & vintage systems. Fortunately, my wife is the patient type, but that's a story for another day.

There was a time, when those types of shops were very plentiful. Unfortunately, the big box stores, online shopping, & smart devices have negatively impacted many of the mom & pop computer shops. In my area, most of them have since closed their doors. The few that remain have become reluctant to sell or give away older equipment, because of agreements/promises they've made to customers, who traded-in their older computer gear, when upgrading to a new system. It comes down to concerns over identity theft & contractual agreements. Those types of shops are not receptive to giving-up the older gear. Hamfests & Vintage Computer Events are another good source for older computer gear. Then there's eBay, Facebook Market Place, & Craig's List, but those are really hit & miss.

Thanks for your suggestions, as every bit helps, especially when we're on a quest.

- trg,