I have a Flexar repeater I recently did a frequency change and had it aligned... It doesn't work right in in repeater mode.. If you turn off the repeater and use it as a spit frequency transmitter it works ok... Anyoyne have any Idea's??????
You can break the squelch but no Audio in repeater mode....
Flexar repeater Help??
Moderator: Queue Moderator
HI:
The Flexar Repeater is a pretty good little repeater
once set up properly, and if you have the " manual"
it can give you some ideas on what to look for.
Since we do not know for sure if it was working perfectly,
and we know you have been realighning the receiver and
transmitter, what is VERY IMPORTANT to know if you were
able to realighn the Duplexer in the Bottom Compartment.
If the Duplexer was not retuned, it would " Desense "
the Receiver when turned on.
Also, if you have it in the Disable Mode, you can use it
as a Base, in the Reperater Mode, it works like a repeater,
What you need to know for sure is if you have the " Proper"
PL / DPL Tone Selected, and if it has been properly set up.
The Book for the Fleaxr is a 68P81035E55
The Book for the Supplement Base/Repeater is a 68P81035E35
Both books are required to maintain the Repeater properly
Monty
The Flexar Repeater is a pretty good little repeater
once set up properly, and if you have the " manual"
it can give you some ideas on what to look for.
Since we do not know for sure if it was working perfectly,
and we know you have been realighning the receiver and
transmitter, what is VERY IMPORTANT to know if you were
able to realighn the Duplexer in the Bottom Compartment.
If the Duplexer was not retuned, it would " Desense "
the Receiver when turned on.
Also, if you have it in the Disable Mode, you can use it
as a Base, in the Reperater Mode, it works like a repeater,
What you need to know for sure is if you have the " Proper"
PL / DPL Tone Selected, and if it has been properly set up.
The Book for the Fleaxr is a 68P81035E55
The Book for the Supplement Base/Repeater is a 68P81035E35
Both books are required to maintain the Repeater properly
Monty
Flexar Help???
Well the Duplexer was retuned also... The PL is correct... and As far as I know it is set up right...
You can bring up the repeater but just no audio....
You can bring up the repeater but just no audio....
HI:
Well, whom ever set up the repeater, should have
'check the audio, or has it been inop all along?
So long as the Radio Receives and Transmitts fine,
with a local mic and the audio is fine there, I suspect
a jumper may have been pulled, or a worst case issue
would be a Audio Switching Circuit in the radio has gone
bad.
Does happen, but very rare.
MS
Well, whom ever set up the repeater, should have
'check the audio, or has it been inop all along?
So long as the Radio Receives and Transmitts fine,
with a local mic and the audio is fine there, I suspect
a jumper may have been pulled, or a worst case issue
would be a Audio Switching Circuit in the radio has gone
bad.
Does happen, but very rare.
MS
Flexar repeater Help??
Ok Well I bypassed the Duplexer and used 2 antenna's it works good except for the Desensitizing of the receiver...
I'm not sure if the duplexer just won't work in this Frequency range (444.300 449.300) or If It needs to be tuned again????
Does anyone have a Used 440 duplexer for sale????
I'm not sure if the duplexer just won't work in this Frequency range (444.300 449.300) or If It needs to be tuned again????
Does anyone have a Used 440 duplexer for sale????
HI:
Well, all the are in the Flexars is a Low Power Band
Reject Duplexer.....If for some reason it does not cover
the range properly, and you want to use a external
one, I have them if you find yours is defective.
Duplexers are a pretty sensitive item to tune properly
unless you have the correct equipment
Monty
Well, all the are in the Flexars is a Low Power Band
Reject Duplexer.....If for some reason it does not cover
the range properly, and you want to use a external
one, I have them if you find yours is defective.
Duplexers are a pretty sensitive item to tune properly
unless you have the correct equipment
Monty
Duplexer
I'm interested in one How much are they.????????? 
??? With 2 svc monitors I can tune up a reject in about 10 minutes. Snesitive, not---they tend to work or not. Usually the low side won't reject, but I really don't care as much as the high side rejecting---that's a garbage can destined duplexer. I detest the little cheesewhiz BNC Celwaves provided in moto stuff---the trash offered with Vertex is better.Monty wrote:HI:
Well, all the are in the Flexars is a Low Power Band
Reject Duplexer.....If for some reason it does not cover
the range properly, and you want to use a external
one, I have them if you find yours is defective.
Duplexers are a pretty sensitive item to tune properly
unless you have the correct equipment
Monty
No offense intended to anyone. Just stating my experience.
KH Wrote:
in the Professional world ( and what the Mfg.'s use ) is a Spectrum
Analyzer in combination with a Sweep generator.
This allows one to " See the Curve " of what is being tuned, and
also make a determination if the Duplexer being tuned may have
defective properties which a Service Monitor is not able to see @
-110dbm ( Even ones with a Spectrum Display )
This is very important when addressing these Receiver Front
ends with little or NO selectivity and most programmable Mobile Radios need to cover a " Wide Bandwidth". without having
to be retuned each time a freq change is made.
Duplexers found at swap meets, and ones which show abuse
may " in fact " have hidden problems. Not saying all of them are poor, but ones which have only been tuned only once or twice will many times offer superior performance to ones with the tuning
screws all chewed up and have been tuned over and over again,
and then disposed of since the person did not have the proper
service tools.
Its probably a good indication the fellow with the Filter Duplexer
tuned by the " other " shop was not very successful.
For low power repeaters, the Band-Reject Filter Duplexer made
by Celewave and sold by Motorola have been used in 1000's of Commercial applications, and with all due respect to the other fellow, I suspect he may have run into a lot of poor performing Duplexers, and or may have missed the importance of impedance factors of the cable, length, Connectors, and overall condition, all of which can have a impact on performance.
And there is a measure of " truth" on using these small duplexers
near a high-power TV or FM Station....But I several on local Mountain Tops ( with minimal activity ) and in service all over town, and so far, out of over 25 in service, not one has failed.
Personally, I like the Type N Style, but there is always a cost
difference between the 2, but Properly installed, both will do
very well @ 50 Watts or less.
And yes, I have seen many a 50 Watt Duplexer Burned out
by improper tuning, and being used on a 75 ~ 100 Watt Micor
where a T-1502 or T1504 / or suitable Duplexer should have been used.
Monty
Although one can " get close" with 2 Service Monitors, if you are??? With 2 svc monitors I can tune up a reject in about 10 minutes. Sensitive, not---they tend to work or not.
in the Professional world ( and what the Mfg.'s use ) is a Spectrum
Analyzer in combination with a Sweep generator.
This allows one to " See the Curve " of what is being tuned, and
also make a determination if the Duplexer being tuned may have
defective properties which a Service Monitor is not able to see @
-110dbm ( Even ones with a Spectrum Display )
This is very important when addressing these Receiver Front
ends with little or NO selectivity and most programmable Mobile Radios need to cover a " Wide Bandwidth". without having
to be retuned each time a freq change is made.
Duplexers found at swap meets, and ones which show abuse
may " in fact " have hidden problems. Not saying all of them are poor, but ones which have only been tuned only once or twice will many times offer superior performance to ones with the tuning
screws all chewed up and have been tuned over and over again,
and then disposed of since the person did not have the proper
service tools.
Its probably a good indication the fellow with the Filter Duplexer
tuned by the " other " shop was not very successful.
For low power repeaters, the Band-Reject Filter Duplexer made
by Celewave and sold by Motorola have been used in 1000's of Commercial applications, and with all due respect to the other fellow, I suspect he may have run into a lot of poor performing Duplexers, and or may have missed the importance of impedance factors of the cable, length, Connectors, and overall condition, all of which can have a impact on performance.
And there is a measure of " truth" on using these small duplexers
near a high-power TV or FM Station....But I several on local Mountain Tops ( with minimal activity ) and in service all over town, and so far, out of over 25 in service, not one has failed.
Personally, I like the Type N Style, but there is always a cost
difference between the 2, but Properly installed, both will do
very well @ 50 Watts or less.
And yes, I have seen many a 50 Watt Duplexer Burned out
by improper tuning, and being used on a 75 ~ 100 Watt Micor
where a T-1502 or T1504 / or suitable Duplexer should have been used.
Monty
HI:
Well ?
We have done this in a pinch, in other words, setting
up 2 Radios on the " Receive" Freq of each freq to be
" filtered out ' and then made a comparison between
what the Service Monitor approch was, vs the Tek 492
and HP Sweep Gen.
We were very dissapointed in our findings. Using the
Service Monitor and Radio approch, we were off by
almost 50%....I mean it worked, but it just did not work
as well as expected.
Desense, Noise, and power loss. Once tuned properly,
everything worked great
Also, it worked even better when the Duplexer was
given a Final tuning once all the cables were connected
to the transmitter and receiver.
Its truly amazing to see what a 1/4 turn can do to the
performance of a Band-Reject Duplexer.
And the use of RG-58 ? Forget it !
In addition, if the " noise ' floor is too high, it can also have a
impact on the Receiver Performance.
Its like taking a Broad Band Ham Radio to a location where
there are 2 or 3 TV Stations in operation.....sometimes the
receiver will just not hear anything even if you had a Band-Reject
Duplexer....And in those cases, its would be very desirable to
spend the extra monies, and get a ( Band Pass / Band Reject )
Duplexer as that ( along with Combiners ) is what most
Commerical users install.
If its in a real bad noise location, the use of a Crystal
Filter, and or isolators are use in combination with all
of the above.
But, they can be expensive....500.00~ 1000.000 on a averge?
Sorta takes the fun out of Building your own....Works Great
On the Bench, Move to the Mountain, then all ( ^&^#* ) breaks
loose.
MS
Well ?
We have done this in a pinch, in other words, setting
up 2 Radios on the " Receive" Freq of each freq to be
" filtered out ' and then made a comparison between
what the Service Monitor approch was, vs the Tek 492
and HP Sweep Gen.
We were very dissapointed in our findings. Using the
Service Monitor and Radio approch, we were off by
almost 50%....I mean it worked, but it just did not work
as well as expected.
Desense, Noise, and power loss. Once tuned properly,
everything worked great
Also, it worked even better when the Duplexer was
given a Final tuning once all the cables were connected
to the transmitter and receiver.
Its truly amazing to see what a 1/4 turn can do to the
performance of a Band-Reject Duplexer.
And the use of RG-58 ? Forget it !
In addition, if the " noise ' floor is too high, it can also have a
impact on the Receiver Performance.
Its like taking a Broad Band Ham Radio to a location where
there are 2 or 3 TV Stations in operation.....sometimes the
receiver will just not hear anything even if you had a Band-Reject
Duplexer....And in those cases, its would be very desirable to
spend the extra monies, and get a ( Band Pass / Band Reject )
Duplexer as that ( along with Combiners ) is what most
Commerical users install.
If its in a real bad noise location, the use of a Crystal
Filter, and or isolators are use in combination with all
of the above.
But, they can be expensive....500.00~ 1000.000 on a averge?
Sorta takes the fun out of Building your own....Works Great
On the Bench, Move to the Mountain, then all ( ^&^#* ) breaks
loose.
MS
Duplexer Question?
I was talking to someone and they said that the duplexer shouldn't be the problem with the audio because duplexers only deal with "RF" not audio is this correct for the duplexers in the flexars???
-
larryepage
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:00 pm
You will have to check the situation out carefully. Desense is an RF problem but shows up as an audio problem.
And just to let all know how tricky duplexers can be to deal with...we had a repeater here at our plant (GR500 with 2 - GM300s, a RICK, and the standard Celwave/RF Systems duplexer) that we just couldn't get right. Curves on the analyzer looked vaguely correct, but the duplexer just wouldn't tune. This had stumped several techs from the outfit that we used before I came to work here.
After several tries looking at the "obvious" problems, I took the repeater off the wall and dismantled it for a closer look. What I discovered was that sometime in the past, probably due to a bad antenna feedline or connector installation, the center connector of the transmit side N connector on the duplexer was broken off and completely gone. There was also damage inside one of the cavities, probably resulting from the reflected power . We sent it back to RF Systems for repair and retuning (which they did for a very reasonable cost), reinstalled it, and it worked great.
Another time, when I had much less experience, I tried to set up a temporary ham repeater and did not ground the MaxRad antenna properly. (After all, it was just for one day, weather was beautiful, and there was no risk of lightning.) The system wouldn't work. Without the ground, which the antenna expected to see, the impedance was wrong, which moved the duplexer notches to the wrong place.
As Monty says...no RG8 or RG58. Too much leakage, meaning too much radiated signal getting from where it is supposed to be (past the duplexer) to where it is not (into the receive radio). Use at least LMR400 for your feedline.
Finally...check the integrity and routing of all cables and pigtails inside your repeater. If someone has replaced an original with one made from RG58, you will probably have trouble. If they are routed too close together, you will probably have trouble.
Final thought...
It's not that the rules change that much when you are working with a repeater. Good practice is still good practice. BUT...when you are working with a repeater, everything matters, and everything needs to be correct. Shortcuts that don't have noticeable impact in other applications can quickly kill a repeater.
Regards and good luck.
And just to let all know how tricky duplexers can be to deal with...we had a repeater here at our plant (GR500 with 2 - GM300s, a RICK, and the standard Celwave/RF Systems duplexer) that we just couldn't get right. Curves on the analyzer looked vaguely correct, but the duplexer just wouldn't tune. This had stumped several techs from the outfit that we used before I came to work here.
After several tries looking at the "obvious" problems, I took the repeater off the wall and dismantled it for a closer look. What I discovered was that sometime in the past, probably due to a bad antenna feedline or connector installation, the center connector of the transmit side N connector on the duplexer was broken off and completely gone. There was also damage inside one of the cavities, probably resulting from the reflected power . We sent it back to RF Systems for repair and retuning (which they did for a very reasonable cost), reinstalled it, and it worked great.
Another time, when I had much less experience, I tried to set up a temporary ham repeater and did not ground the MaxRad antenna properly. (After all, it was just for one day, weather was beautiful, and there was no risk of lightning.) The system wouldn't work. Without the ground, which the antenna expected to see, the impedance was wrong, which moved the duplexer notches to the wrong place.
As Monty says...no RG8 or RG58. Too much leakage, meaning too much radiated signal getting from where it is supposed to be (past the duplexer) to where it is not (into the receive radio). Use at least LMR400 for your feedline.
Finally...check the integrity and routing of all cables and pigtails inside your repeater. If someone has replaced an original with one made from RG58, you will probably have trouble. If they are routed too close together, you will probably have trouble.
Final thought...
It's not that the rules change that much when you are working with a repeater. Good practice is still good practice. BUT...when you are working with a repeater, everything matters, and everything needs to be correct. Shortcuts that don't have noticeable impact in other applications can quickly kill a repeater.
Regards and good luck.
Larry Page
W5LEP
FCC GROL
W5LEP
FCC GROL