face programmability, why is it popular with fire depts.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 6:14 pm

I alway see fire departments referenced when looking at ads for face programmable radios (king, JT1000, etc...)
What are they doing that requires a change of frequencies so often? It seems all the local fire depts. I know of are set on fixed frequencies and really have no need for this.
I suppose it's the wildfire/ forest fire guys that cover multiple juristictions?

Just made me wonder

mancow

mastr · Post by **mastr** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 6:48 pm

I think it is probably just the ad producer's idea of an image to create excitement about the product. You see the same thing in test equipment ads, there is sometimes a thunderstorm on the horizon, as if the technician could never finish before the storm hits, without his "XYZ brand test equipment".

Front panel programmable radios do seem to be very popular among federal fire agencies, as you observe--maybe it is due to the military background of some of their administration.

Jaqx · Post by **Jaqx** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:18 pm

Many local firefighters work several weeks if not months a year fighting wildland fires, primarily in the western US. The Bendix/King user programmable radios rule supreme. Most duty tours begin with a communications officer programming firefighters radios with the freqs of the day. Many times frequency changes are made through the duty tour and the firefighters program their own radios in the field.

The JT1000 is making inroads in the wildland firefighting community. You now see the AA battery pack for the JT1000, I'm sure this was developed to compete with and possibly work to replace the B/K radios.

The mark of a professional wildland firefighter has for a long time been (among other things) a B/K radio with a AA battery pack and the aftermarket silver colored metal DTMF cover.

I think changing over to the JT1000 will be a hard sell in this crowd. The wildland firefighters like those B/K radios and I think it has become "cool" in fire service to have a face programmable radio, even among those that will never set foot in the Idaho/Oregon/Montana/Washington/Colorado/Arizona/California/New Mexico, etc... firegrounds.

Jaqx

ExKa|iBuR · Post by **ExKa|iBuR** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:25 pm

Well, when you figure that an MT2000 radio will hold 255 channels, there isn't much need to change frequencies on the fly.

Heck, you could probably program pretty much every VHF fire frequency in the US with 255 modes. I mean, how many frequencies ARE there between 153 and 156 MHz anyway?

Mike

radiotekk · Post by **radiotekk** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 3:22 pm

Something that you have to consider is the fact that on large wildland fires the radio techs will install temporary repeaters, using who knows what freqs/tones.

Mark

DAL-COM · Post by **DAL-COM** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:19 pm

Vertex recently got a contract to supply field-programmable VX900 to Federal firefighting agencies. As stated, the BLM (or NIFC) will rapidly install repeaters as needed. Tones and freqs change on the fly.
Relm still sells thousands of those BK radios every year.
Millions of alkalines get consumed per year.

Susan157 · Post by **Susan157** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:47 am

Yes in the emergency services we can travel
a long way, by vechicle and we need to change
freq. We use a 40 foot mast to a 2" trailer hitch
and a sinclair full wideband antenna for the command
post.

From the front of the commercial radio
we can change the freq. The commercial
portables are the same way.We want to
work with other teams and need to talk on
their freq.

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:18 pm

Out here in Calif, The California Dept of Forrestry CDF uses the Kenwood TK-280s that hold over 200 channels. They have a bunch of 151MHz Tac and Command freqs. Plus, they are small and rugged.

DAL-COM · Post by **DAL-COM** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:25 pm

Susan, what type of mast, and model of Sinclair wideband antenna do you use? I want to set one up for a local fire dept.
Thanks

Susan157 · Post by **Susan157** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:36 pm

We found three great antennas
Sinclair 210c Vhf full wide band 3bd gain
310c Uhf " " " " "
210-c2 vhf '' '' ' 6db
210c4 vhf 9db gain
well built.

kens · Post by **kens** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:47 pm

I used to think that we had all possible fire freqs. in our 99 ch Maratracs. Then a couple of years ago I was called to a fire on a Federal Forest. There was a new comm plan every day with different freqs. Many of them were "cache" frequencies reserved for large fire incidents. The comm unit at base camp was setup to clone to King ht's(only) but there were times when we were reassigned while in the field and had to do our own programming.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:18 am

Aside from foresty firefighting, I think the big thing was cost. It was a lot cheaper to buy a bunch of modified ham radios than it would be to buy a bunch of commercial radios. I think the front-panel programmability was just an added bonus

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:49 am

Face programabled radios are the result of Wildland firefighting needs. The BK radios, JT1000 etc are needed to interface state and federal conservation agencies involved in front line fire suppression as well as supporting local departs that may be involved. Yes of course you can load up a 128, 160 or 255 channel radio and probably be ok, but the way the BLM, USFS or other feds run their radios there will be sometimes daily changes to the freq plan. You need to be flexible.

BK used to be the king (pun intended) of the face programmable radio out west with locals and feds. They had the contract for years. Other models have shown up but the King is still the most prevelent and popular in my opinion.

Generally, you don't find them being very popular east of the missisipi or outside of wildland fire suppression.

What's interesting is you don't see a similar mobile version for the wildland needs. Then again, most of the work is taking place on foot in terrain that most 4x4 couldn't negociate so maybe the need was never very great.

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:08 am

Not to mention it is a lot cheaper to face program a radio than pay the dealers cost or pay for RSS. Many small departments are on a very tight budget and would rather buy a radio they can just programm and go.

Several in my county are switching to Kenwood for this very reason.... cable and software under $100. Compare that to over $300 for RSS plus RIB cost or $25 for each radio if the tech does it! JT1000's are also popular.

firephoto39 · Post by **firephoto39** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:09 am

There is a keypad mic for the BK mobiles that allow them to be programmed just like the portables.

Our fire district is buying vertex VX-900's to fill our field programming needs. Nice radios and the last time I let the battery run down I got 48 hours out of it before the battery led started blinking.

The need for field programming has been stated pretty clear above. Even if you can have all the channels you will ever need in the radio, it's impossible to have the 16 you might use one day all in one group and in a certain order.

SD70MAC · Post by **SD70MAC** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:06 pm

jaqx,

You said in your post there is an AA battery pack for the JT1000 where do you get one? This is not the throw away that moto sales for the JT? If not it would be great for emergency back up.

SD70MAC out

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:16 pm

I figured it was something like this when I started this thread.
As for the King mobiles...

The new EMH series has a programmable mic like said above.

The older slant faced LMH mobies could be field programmed from thier keypad too. They are just portables configured into a base. Even the cloning is compatible between portables and mobiles.

I thought I would pass that along in the event anyone passed one up because they thought they weren't face programmable. I have one and I love it. It's 35 watts out and works very well. You can't beat them for the price. Especially used!

mancow

Jaqx · Post by **Jaqx** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:13 pm

The part number for the Jedi AA alkaline battery pack is NTN8122. The XTS3000 AA pack is NTN9177.

What I can find says it takes 12 AA cells......

Jaqx

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:01 pm

Hello.

The Jedi pack has a very short life on AA's.

face programmability, why is it popular with fire depts.

face programmability, why is it popular with fire depts.

Radio

Canadian Emergency services on the FLY

40 foot mast on 2" trailer hitch Front and Back of truc

BATTERY

Jedi pack