Did I Get Ripped Off on an Ebay MTS2000??? Please Help!

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:18 pm

<pre>

I just got a UHF Flashport MTS2000 HT from Ebay. I was a little
concerned when I looked at the back of the radio and noticed that
where the model sticker is normally located is just a blank black
area. There is a small white sticker glued on above the battery
contacts that reads:

|------------------------|
| FCC ID: AZ489FT4781 |
| MOTOROLA |
|------------------------|

HANDIE-TALKIE FM RADIO
MODEL NO: H01RDH9PW1BN

I connected the radio to a RIB and was able to read it with the
MTSX RSS software. When I saved the codeplug to disk, the display
showed:

Archive Filename......blank
Model Number..........H01RDH9PW1BN
Serial Number.....................
Last Programmed.........0307030744
Program Source....RSS with Sys Key

There was NO SERIAL NUMBER listed! I'm not sure if the radio
can be programmed without a serial number.

Did I get ripped-off?

If anyone can help me out and let me know what the situation could
be with this radio and what I should do, I would greatly appreciate
it!

-Cryptoman

FFCARTER46 · Post by **FFCARTER46** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:28 pm

well by the model number it appears to be what you were looking for: a uhf mts2000 full keypad and display. i cant tell you about the serial number being blank (???) dont know there

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:38 pm

Might

be

stolen.

Larry

70351 · Post by **70351** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:34 pm

Could someone have changed the serial number (to be blank) by using a hex editor?

Post by **batdude** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:32 pm

what is the firmware version of your radio?

if it's old version 1.xx or 2.xx, chances are you have a labbed (hacked) radio.

the only way to tell if you REALLY got burned is to take the radio apart and look at the part number of the controller board (smaller of the two boards inside the radio)

i would say you didn't get burned if the radio does what you want....

of course, if it's got a MTX8000 or MT2000 (notice *NOT* MTS 2000) controller in it that's been hacked to "MTS2000" -- then yes, you got pooped on

doug

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:41 am

Hi:

All " True " MTS2000 Radios, and Flashport Models
will ALWAYS have a Full Model / Serial Number ( Period )

Only exception to that rule is if the Back Housing
was distroyed, and they did not transfer the name plate.

ANY Radio that does not have all these attributes could
mean the radio is NOT a true UHF MTS2000, but one that
has been put togther, and made to look like one.

True MTS2000's are a somewhat rare radio, and many
have " Made their own " but have controllers in them
from a different radio, been hacked, and may not have
all the Features the true MTS2000 have''

Here is a real model number

H01RDH9PW1BN
Serial 235WM0XXX

And this many times is a laser cut Model / Serial Plate.

At many Ham Swap Meets, I have seen some good copies
made from a Printer, so be forwared.

Monty

RocketNJ · Post by **RocketNJ** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:41 am

Is it possible the controller board has not been initialized in the radio yet?

George

Microwave Mike · Post by **Microwave Mike** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:03 am

The question is does the radio preform the task that you needed? Yes it is more than likely the radio is a hacked Mtsx-8000 or a older MT-2000.
Did you pay a good price for the radio?
If you were to buy this radio from Moto, you would pay around 3 Grand.
My bet is you paided a little less.
I know that you expected a real MTS-2000. It is hard to tell what is real and what is not on E-bay. I did the same thing three years ago with a VHF radio. Bid on a MTS-2000 VHF full keypad with display and got a Hacked MT-2000. You know, the radio does 250 channels, DTMF, has a SN via lab, and can't be toolproofed. It does the mission. It fact the radio has only just been replaced in the last thirty days by a XTS. It will soon be on
E-bay for sale. It will have a accurate description as to what it is.

Enjoy your new radio.

mm

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:06 am

Have you contacted the police? Or, have you asked the seller for a refund?

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:37 am

Thanks to everyone for the information provided so far.

If it was just a matter of the radio not having a sticker on
the back, it wouldn't be a huge issue for me. My main concern
is that the radio does not have an Electronic Serial Number. I
don't think it can be programmed without one.

A "legitimate" commercial radio is important though. I am involved
with the local Emergency Response Team and want to be able to legally
use the radio for public service use. I already have a GP-68 and
understand the importance of FCC type acceptance and that export
radios are not to be used commercially in the USA.

I was concerned enough about this, so I checked with the seller
to make sure that this radio had an FCC ID on the back and was a
USA model. He said it was, but I am suspicious that he just made
up a label and glued it on the back!

I have sent an email to the seller asking for a refund, but have
not heard anything back yet.

-Cryptoman

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:22 pm

Some ammo to state your case might be that in many jurisdications it
is 'illegal' to posess an article who's serial# has been removed or defaced.
I was successful in recovering $175. on EBay's fraud guarantee when I was in a similar situation with a HT-1000 using that tidbit. The seller just might come thru with a refund if you inform him of that and going to law enforcement is next.

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:42 pm

I got a reply from the seller of the radio. He said that the
unit was a "test radio and was issued without a SN#". (Does
this make any sense?)

He did offer to take the radio back and refund my money. I'm
planning on going ahead and doing this.

Hopefully I will be able to find another MTS2000 someday that
is a "normal" radio.

Thanks again to everyone who posted info!

-Cryptoman

werdnuts · Post by **werdnuts** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:35 pm

Dude... the line about a test model is a load of $hit. Motorola doesnt play that game. Maybe the housing or the frame was... but not the radio. I suggest you determine the flashcode. if it has a flashcode, it is an mts2000. Before you have an anurism... open it up and get the model # off the controller. That will solve the problem there. You might have a legit radio. Make sure you are reading the radio properly in the rss also. if no codeplug is properly loaded... it will not show a s/n.

Check w/ the other batlabbers... i think there is a way to display the model, s/n, and flashcode upon start up of the radio by putting it into service mode or something...

i am not by any means an expert w/ the mts2000, but like someone said eariler, do your research before you panic. You might have a radio that is perfectly good and meets your needs. as far as type acceptance, even if it was parts built, the model most likely is type accepted. as far as emergency response, you really only need to be worried about whether or not you need FM approval (aka intrinsically safe).

Good luck.

-werdnuts

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:31 pm

Hello.

First off, is is against the law to deface or alter a serial number.
You can buy new engine blocks, and build an engine, the police have no issue, if there were, they would be after just about everybody who builds racing engines.
I have built/rebuilt several dozen radios, new housings are the order of the day, and I do not usually replace the labels on the back.
This has never been at issue with anyone, ever.
To say you got a rip off radio, if it works for what you want?
If you want a radio that you are totally sure has all the info', full warranty, the whole shebang, buy one from your local motorola dealer, but you will pay the price.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:33 pm

If you want to put the radio in "test" mode (as stated by another batlabber earlier) Just do this : Upon turning on the radio, press the Mon. button on the side of the radio 5 times. This should display the Model #, ,Flashcode, etc.

Give that a try, and let us know.

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:59 pm

I put the radio into test mode and the following showed up on
the display in sequence:

SERVICE
R06.72
H01RDH9PW1BN
FLSHCD
000001-
000000-9
RF TEST

The third item is the model number. Can anyone explain what the
other items are?

-Cryptoman

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:14 am

Hi: ( Again )

Before you panic, I would consider " How Much " your
investment is !

If you paid a Commerical Price for the radio 1000.00 up, I would
demand the product advertised.

Its just a radio ! and if it works, has all the features, and you
got it as a ' Sleeper" ( Meaning Cheap like a few hundered bucks )
that would probably be a good deal even if it was a modifiedradio.

There are persons around the Batforum that are very savvy at
modifying radios which is the main spirit of batlabs to begin
with., and they consider it a goal to change all kinds of things around ! AND if you have the firmware that allows this, that may be to your advantage since it may not be subject to toolproofing.

MTSX Lab Software is Propriatory Motorola Radio Software that
has the ability to change the attributes of the radios primary code
plug ( Including the ESN ) It also can turn your radio into a Brick too ! so, I would recomemd you stay away from that.

You DO NOT need the ESN to Read / Write to the Radio !

It could say Bugs Bunny in the S/N line and all the RSS will do is
read what ever is there.

Therefore, if you want a MTS2000 for less than 800.00 bucks
or so, take the radio to a Qualified Motorola Tech in your Area.

Let them check it over, and give you a Estimate....If you do not
know of anyone, I am more than capable of reviewing your radio
for a small service fee and shipping.....Yes, it does take a little
labor to check all the modes....

Anyhow, give it some thought, sometimes the seller may
refund you a few bucks if you want to take the radio as it
sits, and if he does, for 65.00~ 75.00 you can have it examined, and a small Code Plug made.....

If you really get desperate, well, I could always consider selling
the one I have. Its in " Perfect " condition, and its a true UHF
MTS2000 Model lll

Monty

Mercenary · Post by **Mercenary** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:29 am

I have to agree with Monty, if the radio works and does what you want it to do, i would just keep the radio. Even if this seller on ebay says he will refund your money if you send the radio back to him, he might just keep the radio and never send your money back to you. You can always sell it on ebay later on down the road and get another radio if your not happy with the one you have.

OX · Post by OX » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:33 am

cryptoman wrote:I put the radio into test mode and the following showed up on
the display in sequence:

SERVICE
R06.72
H01RDH9PW1BN
FLSHCD
000001-
000000-9
RF TEST

The third item is the model number. Can anyone explain what the
other items are?

-Cryptoman

Going by that data, you have a MTS2000 controller so it would be safe to assume that the rest of the radio is also a MTS2000. I didn't see a serial number listed there but otherwise this guy looks to be legit.

Reason being that you cannot touch that radio with labtools enough to delete the serial number and NOT cause a F01/93; there's no way. The flash signature is based on the serial number and also several other pieces of information so that radio was flashed without a serial number. I would like to think that only the factory could do that but you never know.

As for the "just keep the radio" crap, if you pay for a MTS2000 at $700-$800 and get a MT2000 in a MTS2000 case, you've been ripped off. The MT2000 is worth less than the MTS2000 and also is no Securenet capable. There is nothing wrong with getting what you pay for, regardless of whether it does what you want or not. How would you feel if you bought a radio represented as a MTS2000 and really was a MTX8000 that was recased?

However in this case, it looks to be legit, maybe a bit shady, but legit. At least the seller responds to email!

Crypto: Can you send me the sellers email address? I would like to contact him about maybe doing a deal.

John G · Post by **John G** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 6:05 am

This is a bit off topic and likely to be a touchy issue with some, but, you mentioned that you have a GP 68 and though you didn't say so, I thought you implied that it is not type accepted. The GP 68 is type accepted. Mine has a type acceptance sticker. Motorola left the type acceptance number off later ones to discourage domestic sales. If by chance my sticker got removed and there was any question, I would just refer the questioner to the FCC's type acceptance database. As to your MTS2000, if you don't feel good about it, send it back. Doesn't matter if it's legit or not. Your satisfaction is what is important.

TomSlick · Post by **TomSlick** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:27 am

John G wrote:If by chance my sticker got removed and there was any question, I would just refer the questioner to the FCC's type acceptance database.

This topic has been debated a lot all over Usenet and in other forums. Just for my own edification, does anyone have a link to the actual GP68 entries in the FCC database? They must be there, since as John G says, there are GP68s that do have type acceptance labels.

John G · Post by **John G** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:30 am

The data base is somewhat daunting. I think you can look up by manufacturer or type acceptance number. I don't think you can look by model number. I will look at my GP if I can still find it and post the type acceptance number for you as well as the link to find on the FCC's web site.

John G · Post by **John G** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:43 am

I happened to remember we have a few here at work. The type acceptance number is: AZ489FT4811. Here is the link to the page where you put in the number:https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.ex ... h_Form.hts I think it is anyway. If this doesn't work go to http://www.fcc.gov, click on search, then fcc ID# search. Oddly, when I looked at the actual grant, I don't think it even has the actual model number listed. Incidently, we have since started using Vertex. They are cheaper, smaller, tougher, and easier to service. Vertex gives us the software and their parts are reasonable. Not that the GP is a bad radio.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:51 pm

Consider what will happen when you send your radio to Rockford for service: It ain't gunna come back!

Larry

John G · Post by **John G** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:43 am

Yeah, we knew that when we bought them. We actually had the silly software and a repair manual at one time. I think the ones that went bad were discarded. I never heard any gripes from the boss about them though. The price went up and the users were constantly getting them on the wrong frequency. I think some buttons got rubbed off too. The Vertex have no buttons and are smaller and cheaper. It just seemed like a better radio for our needs. We were actually satisfied with the GP's. There are several still in the equipment closet new, in the box, that were never used. Don't know what will happen to them. I assume they will be given away as ham radios. I bought one out of the first shipment we acquired and it is somewhere, still in the box. I never used it. I didn't hear much about it, but there is a keypad sequence that will lock the programming once it is set. I always wanted to enter it on one for sale at a hamfest and see the look on the owner's face when he tried to enter a frequency from the keypad. Never did do it though.

Did I Get Ripped Off on an Ebay MTS2000??? Please Help!

Did I Get Ripped Off on an Ebay MTS2000??? Please Help!

sticker

maybe....

Got ripped off?

Serial number