hi all,
well im not sure about this so dont get upset with me or anything. my county uses 800 mhz mts2000 full keypad/display and we operate on smartzone/smartnet. i have bought some radios identical off here and they were programmed with various things. if i bought rib, cable and rss(from motorola of course) could you program one of these to recieve only? we have radio ids for all radios and use PrivateCall and some radios have telephone interconnect. could you program one to recieve only, like a scanner?
Curious. programming 800 mhz radios
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FFCARTER46
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:24 pm
Curious. programming 800 mhz radios
Jeremi Carter
Firefighter I/II
North Carolna Certified EMT-B
Driver/Operator-Engines, Tankers, Aerials
NAPD
Firefighter I/II
North Carolna Certified EMT-B
Driver/Operator-Engines, Tankers, Aerials
NAPD
Hey there..
Well, with regular RSS, about the only thing you can do:
Program in a radio ID that's not valid, such as FFFE or some such.
Set the affiliation type to "On PTT".
If you physically open the radio, the little metal tab that pushes the PTT is removeable, so if you remove that (it's held in by some clear plastic tape), your radio will no longer be able TX, as it won't have a PTT button. If you use a speaker mic however, the radio will still try to affiliate and talk to the system, which is bad.
If you know someone that has a copy of LAB RSS (a big no no, but anyway...) you can go into the screen where you change what the buttons on the radio do..
(from the main screen, F4, F3), then there's an F9 option that says "Lab Buttons:. You can re-assign the PTT's function to something like Light, so that way, even if you do push the PTT button, all the radio will do is beep, and turn on the light on your display (if you have one).
That's about the best way I've seen to make a Jedi radio receive only when it comes to trunking. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
-M
Well, with regular RSS, about the only thing you can do:
Program in a radio ID that's not valid, such as FFFE or some such.
Set the affiliation type to "On PTT".
If you physically open the radio, the little metal tab that pushes the PTT is removeable, so if you remove that (it's held in by some clear plastic tape), your radio will no longer be able TX, as it won't have a PTT button. If you use a speaker mic however, the radio will still try to affiliate and talk to the system, which is bad.
If you know someone that has a copy of LAB RSS (a big no no, but anyway...) you can go into the screen where you change what the buttons on the radio do..
(from the main screen, F4, F3), then there's an F9 option that says "Lab Buttons:. You can re-assign the PTT's function to something like Light, so that way, even if you do push the PTT button, all the radio will do is beep, and turn on the light on your display (if you have one).
That's about the best way I've seen to make a Jedi radio receive only when it comes to trunking. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
-M
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FFCARTER46
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:24 pm
k
but can i use rss to program the freqs. into the radio to recieve the channels i want it to. what info about the trunking system do i need to know to program the radio to do this? and how do i do it? i know 800 mhz freqs that the system operates on but what do i need to know to make certain channels go into certain zones, how do i know the number for each induvitual channel to put it into the zones? i hope you all can understand what i just said lol kinda mixed up ex:
Zone 1
Fire Disp
Fire FG 1
Fire FG 2
etc.
Zone 2
EMS Disp
EMS Tac 2
EMS Tac 3
etc.
Zone 1
Fire Disp
Fire FG 1
Fire FG 2
etc.
Zone 2
EMS Disp
EMS Tac 2
EMS Tac 3
etc.
Jeremi Carter
Firefighter I/II
North Carolna Certified EMT-B
Driver/Operator-Engines, Tankers, Aerials
NAPD
Firefighter I/II
North Carolna Certified EMT-B
Driver/Operator-Engines, Tankers, Aerials
NAPD
Hey Jeremi..
Well, to program a radio to receive a trunked system, you need to know:
1) System ID
2) Control Channel Frequencies
3) Talkgroup ID's.
Once you get those, you need to get a System Key for the specific System ID you want to listen to. These are, legally speaking, only supposed to be for system administrators. Batlabs has a "work-around" at http://www.batlabs.com/syskey.html.
The Control Channel frequencies tell the radio what frequencies it should listen on, to get direction from the system controller. These frequencies are often listed in scanner books, etc...
Talkgroup ID's are the "channels" in the system, they tell the radio what to listen for on the control channels.
I did a lookup at http://www.trunkedradio.net and found the following:
Salisbury/Rowan County, NC
Frequencies:
856.2125 856.2625 856.9625 857.2125 857.2625 857.9625 858.2125 858.2625 858.9625 859.2125 859.2625 859.9625 860.2125 860.2625 860.9625
Unfortunatly, the site doesn't list what the System ID is, nor does it state the control channels. These are things you can easily find out, by running trunker.exe, also available at http://www.trunkedradio.net. It will scan the control channel for the System ID of the system.
The talkgroups you are mentioning are:
752 02f Salisbury FD Dispatch 1
1328 053 Rowan County Fireground 1
1360 055 Rowan County Fireground 2
1392 057 Rowan County Fireground 3
1488 05d Rowan County EMS Dispatch
1520 05f Rowan County EMS TAC 1
1552 061 Rowan County EMS TAC 2
1584 063 Rowan County EMS TAC 3
1616 065 Rowan County EMS
1648 067 Rowan County EMS TAC 4
So, to listen to EMS Dispatch, you would need to program your radio to listen to talkgroup "05D".
I've had quite abit of experience with the MTSX series radios, so if you have any other questions about this at all, send me off an email... mike@warpzone.ca and I'll do the best I can to answer them for you, or use one of the IM programs under my nickname.
Hope it helps!
-M
Well, to program a radio to receive a trunked system, you need to know:
1) System ID
2) Control Channel Frequencies
3) Talkgroup ID's.
Once you get those, you need to get a System Key for the specific System ID you want to listen to. These are, legally speaking, only supposed to be for system administrators. Batlabs has a "work-around" at http://www.batlabs.com/syskey.html.
The Control Channel frequencies tell the radio what frequencies it should listen on, to get direction from the system controller. These frequencies are often listed in scanner books, etc...
Talkgroup ID's are the "channels" in the system, they tell the radio what to listen for on the control channels.
I did a lookup at http://www.trunkedradio.net and found the following:
Salisbury/Rowan County, NC
Frequencies:
856.2125 856.2625 856.9625 857.2125 857.2625 857.9625 858.2125 858.2625 858.9625 859.2125 859.2625 859.9625 860.2125 860.2625 860.9625
Unfortunatly, the site doesn't list what the System ID is, nor does it state the control channels. These are things you can easily find out, by running trunker.exe, also available at http://www.trunkedradio.net. It will scan the control channel for the System ID of the system.
The talkgroups you are mentioning are:
752 02f Salisbury FD Dispatch 1
1328 053 Rowan County Fireground 1
1360 055 Rowan County Fireground 2
1392 057 Rowan County Fireground 3
1488 05d Rowan County EMS Dispatch
1520 05f Rowan County EMS TAC 1
1552 061 Rowan County EMS TAC 2
1584 063 Rowan County EMS TAC 3
1616 065 Rowan County EMS
1648 067 Rowan County EMS TAC 4
So, to listen to EMS Dispatch, you would need to program your radio to listen to talkgroup "05D".
I've had quite abit of experience with the MTSX series radios, so if you have any other questions about this at all, send me off an email... mike@warpzone.ca and I'll do the best I can to answer them for you, or use one of the IM programs under my nickname.
Hope it helps!
-M
The notion that certain talkgroups can be associated with specific voice channels is not correct.
In a trunked system, all voice channels are in a pool. When someone wants to talk to the other members of his talkgroup, a voice channel will be assigned by the controller, and, depending on system options, either (a) that voice channel will remain assigned until the conversation ends (i.e., revert on disconnect tone plus timeout), or (b) a new voice channel will be assigned on each key press (i.e., revert on disconnect tone).
The way radios know which voice channel to switch to is by listening to the commands issued by the controller over the data channel, which is what your radio is listening to when it is quiet.
The notion of "RX Only," as applied to a trunked system, would be that the radio would listen to and execute group call commands, but it would not transmit a request to talk even if the PTT is pressed. This was not considered a useful feature to have in field units when the SmartNet/SmartZone system was designed, since if we have a talkgroup on which (a) no one can talk (only listen) or (b) some people can talk but others can't (but all can listen), we can program that via the system controller -- and if we later change our mind, we can fix it by reprogramming the system controller without having to get everyone to bring their mobiles and portables in for reprogramming. Therefore, "RX Only" is not available in trunked radios via the RSS. Some radios, notably C-model Spectras, have a bit that, if set high, will prevent the radio from transmitting on the control channel via software, but this bit cannot be accessed via regular RSS.
In a trunked system, all voice channels are in a pool. When someone wants to talk to the other members of his talkgroup, a voice channel will be assigned by the controller, and, depending on system options, either (a) that voice channel will remain assigned until the conversation ends (i.e., revert on disconnect tone plus timeout), or (b) a new voice channel will be assigned on each key press (i.e., revert on disconnect tone).
The way radios know which voice channel to switch to is by listening to the commands issued by the controller over the data channel, which is what your radio is listening to when it is quiet.
The notion of "RX Only," as applied to a trunked system, would be that the radio would listen to and execute group call commands, but it would not transmit a request to talk even if the PTT is pressed. This was not considered a useful feature to have in field units when the SmartNet/SmartZone system was designed, since if we have a talkgroup on which (a) no one can talk (only listen) or (b) some people can talk but others can't (but all can listen), we can program that via the system controller -- and if we later change our mind, we can fix it by reprogramming the system controller without having to get everyone to bring their mobiles and portables in for reprogramming. Therefore, "RX Only" is not available in trunked radios via the RSS. Some radios, notably C-model Spectras, have a bit that, if set high, will prevent the radio from transmitting on the control channel via software, but this bit cannot be accessed via regular RSS.
I'm aware how a trunking system works. Voice channels aren't even programmed in the radio when it comes to programming for trunking.
With regular RSS, about the best you can do to disable TX is to remove the "popple" from the radio, and don't use a speaker-mic.
Short of physically removing the PA from the radio anyway.
-M
With regular RSS, about the best you can do to disable TX is to remove the "popple" from the radio, and don't use a speaker-mic.
Short of physically removing the PA from the radio anyway.
-M
Iit depends on model and features of radio being programmed, but my "regular" RSS has an option called TX Inhibit you can assign to a switch. If you assign this to both positions of the concentric switch it should accomplish the same thing (i.e. a radio the user can't transmit on) without having to butcher the insides.
I find you can assign this function to one position of the concentric switch and assign Scan Program to the other position. The radio won't transmit in Scan Program mode either so you still have a "receive only" radio and can do something else useful with the switch.
You still need to set the affiliation to "on PTT" as already mentioned.
I don't know if this works on a SmartZone radio or not.... and it seems to be dependent on whether or not the codeplug was created with that feature (TX Inihibit) or not. Anyway, it might be worth trying.
John
I find you can assign this function to one position of the concentric switch and assign Scan Program to the other position. The radio won't transmit in Scan Program mode either so you still have a "receive only" radio and can do something else useful with the switch.
You still need to set the affiliation to "on PTT" as already mentioned.
I don't know if this works on a SmartZone radio or not.... and it seems to be dependent on whether or not the codeplug was created with that feature (TX Inihibit) or not. Anyway, it might be worth trying.
John
Ah yes, I completly forgot about that, thanks!
You can program a switch (the concentric switch is probably the best for this) to have BOTH positions saying "TX Inhibit", meaning, if you try to transmit, it will just bonk at you.
If you've got a B3 radio (no display at all), the concentric switch is a great idea, as you can't even physically access it without removing the channel knob.
Obviously the disadvantage is that you have to give up a switch...
So, to be super careful:
1) Invalid Radio ID
2) Affiliate on PTT
3) Remove PTT popple
4) Re-assign PTT button to Light (if you have LAB)
5) Set both positions of the concentric switch to no TX.
It'd take a damn miracle to make it TX!
-M
You can program a switch (the concentric switch is probably the best for this) to have BOTH positions saying "TX Inhibit", meaning, if you try to transmit, it will just bonk at you.
If you've got a B3 radio (no display at all), the concentric switch is a great idea, as you can't even physically access it without removing the channel knob.
Obviously the disadvantage is that you have to give up a switch...
So, to be super careful:
1) Invalid Radio ID
2) Affiliate on PTT
3) Remove PTT popple
4) Re-assign PTT button to Light (if you have LAB)
5) Set both positions of the concentric switch to no TX.
It'd take a damn miracle to make it TX!
-M
Trunking
Hello.
I found a workaround, simple, 100% legal in the areas I roam.
The local police simply had this fetish, no one but the police could have police radios set on trunking.
Except for the press.
The city has a range of IDs for the press radios.
The controller simply will not assign a press radio a voice channel, other than that, it is just like any other radio.
The policy has since changed, after the police loaned a bunch of radios to some Mexican friends who got caught by the feds with a BUNCH of dope, an entire class 8 truck full.
The truck got stopped as it was overweight, over 100,000lbs.
It would seem there was some error, the nitwits were told that the max was 80,000, but that is gross, not the load.
They cut a deal with the feds, and that is how the local cops got busted on the latest sting.
So, as more of this happens, the more public sentiment turns against police secrets, the more open access, including radio, becomes.
I found a workaround, simple, 100% legal in the areas I roam.
The local police simply had this fetish, no one but the police could have police radios set on trunking.
Except for the press.
The city has a range of IDs for the press radios.
The controller simply will not assign a press radio a voice channel, other than that, it is just like any other radio.
The policy has since changed, after the police loaned a bunch of radios to some Mexican friends who got caught by the feds with a BUNCH of dope, an entire class 8 truck full.
The truck got stopped as it was overweight, over 100,000lbs.
It would seem there was some error, the nitwits were told that the max was 80,000, but that is gross, not the load.
They cut a deal with the feds, and that is how the local cops got busted on the latest sting.
So, as more of this happens, the more public sentiment turns against police secrets, the more open access, including radio, becomes.
Well, you just defeated # 3 by doing #4NorthYork20 wrote:So, to be super careful:
1) Invalid Radio ID
2) Affiliate on PTT
3) Remove PTT popple
4) Re-assign PTT button to Light (if you have LAB)
5) Set both positions of the concentric switch to no TX.
It'd take a damn miracle to make it TX!
-M
Basically I remove the PTT Poppet. It is just held on by tape. I stick it to the RF shield.
I then program a bad ID FFFE, which is the highest they got
Then I do the INHIBIT transmit trick on the concentric switch.
You still looking for the ID for Rowan county?
I might be able to hook you up.
I have a Friend up that way
CHARLES
What I have found is to program FFFE
This is not accurate info. There is a way to affiliate selected talkgroups with specific voice channels.RKG wrote:The notion that certain talkgroups can be associated with specific voice channels is not correct.
However, you need to be the system administrator, or his/her best friend, because it's done through the SMT port on the system controller.
We've used this feature for coverage testing on our simulcast system for a long time.
You're referring to directed preference voting of repeaters; can be done, but would not be of assistance to person who wants to monitor only specific talkgroups by conventional monitoring of voice channels, since so long as a channel grant on the directed talkgroup was not active, the voice channel could be used for other talkgroups.
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chipjumper
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:14 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS5000 for work
The goal is to not transmit at all, whether you actually get a valid grant onto the system or denied, you are still able to transmit and do so without authorization. The easiest for a MTS2000 is to enable TX_Inhibit on the concentric switch. In the proper position, it will prevent the radio from transmitting anything, period. This has been mentioned already and with the exception of removing the PTT popple, is the ONLY way to prevent the radio from transmitting anything. The other methods only attempt to force a denied access from the system which would definitely cause someone to pay attention to whatever ID you have programmed. Best to be transparent.
If its a SmartZone system, do NOT program it as much. Once you turn the radio on, PTT or not, the radio will try to affliate. At least with the Astro series it will, and most likley the MTS as well. I recently programmed up a local smartzone system, accidently left the programming as Smartzone....had the TX inhibit options etc enabled and as soon as I went to that system in the radio, it tried to affiate.
If possible, just set the radio to Smartnet (type II) or WAC AMSS if its a smartzone system.
If possible, just set the radio to Smartnet (type II) or WAC AMSS if its a smartzone system.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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chipjumper
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:14 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS5000 for work
So is it possible to "clone" an Astro radio for example such as the Michigan State Police's 9600 800 digital system? I was required to go to a 5 hour class put on by MSP to use this system a couple days ago and I was edumacated on some things and he did mention how secure this is. I know they do have encryption available but I believe he said that only narcotics and FBI use it with MSP's statewide system.
Sure it's possible. Even with 'regular' RSS, as long as the model & Flashcodes match, and you have a system key, you can clone. LAB RSS will let you do it even easier.chipjumper wrote:So is it possible to "clone" an Astro radio for example such as the Michigan State Police's 9600 800 digital system?
Todd
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