Batboard

Mine DID have an o-ring, you quoted MY post, then called ME a loser.

You are an immature child, in addition to being pompous and arrogant.

Oh by the way, is calling me a "dolt" at the end not supposed to be insulting either?

Bat-Jerk.

I'm not a moderator, but could you both please PLEASE take this up 1-on-1 off the board. I DO NOT wanna see this thread get locked.

I think there is simply a misunderstanding, because I don't believe batdude was directing his comments toward any 1 certain person.

Well it sure seemed that way.

I'll drop it if he does.

A lot of asumptions are being made in a lot of these posts (mine included)

Nick used genuine M parts
Nick used stolen M parts
Nick used QC rejected parts
Nick used insurance salvage parts
Nick used very strict QC procedures when assembling/testing his radios
Nick didn't use any manuals or test gear.

Until someone in authority clears the air on my comments above, any discussion on the hardware legitimacy or the quality of the radio is speculative.

But all teh time Nick was selling radios and since, I've never heard anyone say the radio wasn't close to perfect in every way, nor have I ever read any post of a Nick radio that malfunctioned.

AND ..... ROTFLMAO .... I was one of the morons that had MODAT turned on because I thought it sounded cool !!!! Just on my own biz frequency, the only one it annoyed was my wife

But just because some of the sofware options that Nick loaded were incompatable with each other, didn't it depend on the user of the CPS to enable these 'features' when setting up personalities?

hamton, i do know of a few nick radios that did have problems. One of the radios i saw, when you would TX the screen would go screwy. I have also on another Nick radio experienced where the TX audio was way low and suffered from distortion.

Those radios were sent back to nick to be fixed and were never returned, nor was a refund issued to my friend.

All I wrote was I never saw any posts regarding malfuctioning radios - usually people post to complain rather that to praise ....

Trying to be fair to Nick, hardware failures can occur no matter how well the radio is built or tested - the fact that he didn't take care of it was sad.

But before someone else jumps on the M bandwagon and writes that if it was a legit radio that malfuctioned, you could just depot it under warranty.......... maybe not so if M was on their way out of business.

That's the risk you take in buying from a no name company - that they may not be here tomorrow for service and warranty. But that's also why you generally pay far less for the radio -

I actually recieved two malfunctioning radios from Nick. I payed for the first one and thought myself incredibly lucky to have it arrive over night. However, when powered up the radio got stuck on self test and started to get really hot really fast. So I sent that one back to him and he overnighted another one to me. This time the radio worked find 99% of the time but would either restart itself or just beep and light up every 20-30 min. I sent that one back to him after a few weeks and havent seen it since.

The main recurring complaint that I heard from people on the board and people I know personally who bought from Nick was that his radios needed alignment to work properly.

Mike

yeah, i am done with LAC-OPS, I *know* what i am talking about.

i will add that i know personally of other NWR customers who are/were very pleased with their products - but i would add that some of those can't tell the difference between a digital radio and a hammer either.

AND ..... ROTFLMAO .... I was one of the morons that had MODAT turned on because I thought it sounded cool !!!! Just on my own biz frequency, the only one it annoyed was my wife

i should have added that using modat as a ploy to irritate is perfectly acceptable to me..

But just because some of the sofware options that Nick loaded were incompatable with each other, didn't it depend on the user of the CPS to enable these 'features' when setting up personalities?

negative - if CPS was utilized to program one of his wonderful 4F1E whores then you would get an unrecoverable modat emergency invalid field - the only way around it was to slave a channel to the field, thus enabling modat emergency... this in addition to the software encryption stuff previously mentioned.

enuf for now, i think i'll just sit back and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.



doug[/quote]

batdude wrote:yeah, i am done with LAC-OPS, I *know* what i am talking about.

Adhominem attacks. That's always a sure sign of superiority.

There is nothing in the Nick radios that isn't genuine Motorola.
The only thing they really lack is the so called Motorola "breath of life" to make the "legitimate."

The so called "whore" flash code? That came from Motorola as well.

As far as not trusting the radios to work properly because they are not "legitimate?" The only thing not legitimate about them is that they weren't put together in a Motorola assembly line, pre aligned and sold through their standard channels.

If you want to view the radio from a "potential loss of life" aspect, then they would be no different than buying a used firearm. You DO clean them first, make sure all the parts are there and functioning before you use them right?

Jeff

The so called "whore" flash code? That came from Motorola as well.

thats not exactly true...

Not all flash codes come from motorola, and as pointed out the H07 software encryption is for VSELP radios, not IMBE.

stay-con wrote:As far as not trusting the radios to work properly because they are not "legitimate?" The only thing not legitimate about them is that they weren't put together in a Motorola assembly line, pre aligned and sold through their standard channels.

Jeff

Exactly...........they have not been through Motorola's Quality Control processes. Look, lots of us here may b*tch about Motorola's business practices, but one thing that almost everyone here will agree with: Motorola makes good, reliable radios. A big reason for that is that they have a Quality Control system in place, that ensures that each radio that rolls off of the production line meets certain criteria. THIS is why people are willing to stake their lives on these radios. i don't have an opinion on the whole Nick thing. I don't have much interest in the high end P.S. radios. But, I have been doing radio repair work for over 15 years now, and I can tell you that there is NO WAY that this Nick fella is putting out the same quality of radio as the one that comes from the Factory. The use of original OEM parts, in this case, is only a small factor in the quality formula.

kmoose wrote---"....Exactly...........they have not been through Motorola's Quality Control processes."

That line nearly killed me. The QC department at Motorola has been asleep at the switch for years now. When we installed new equipment several years ago, there were several "DOA" pieces (including at least two Quantars), all of which had QC acceptance docs.

Lots of interesting discussion on this thread, but it boils down to this...I work for a large manufacturing company. We happen to make food products.

If we found someone not affiliated with our company making a product, even with our same formulations and our same ingredients, we would pursue them with the full force of the law. Period. No discussion, no excuses, no logical justifications from the offending party or from that party's customers. We would not allow an unauthorized third party to claim to be making the same product as us. This situation involves trademark violation, product liability, and a host of other issues and would be treated aggressively by us.

Motorola has every right, and in fact a serious responsibility to pursue this case as aggressively as possible. If they do not pursue this case and cases like it, they can, in fact, lose the right to their trademarks, copyrights, and intellectual property.

What we do personally and privately is our business. Anyone has the right to work to duplicate any of my company's formulas in his or her kitchen for his or her own private use. That right ends when they seek to sell their product as mine, because at that point it is no longer a private matter...it is an infringement of my product rights.

Regards,

mastr wrote:kmoose wrote---"....Exactly...........they have not been through Motorola's Quality Control processes."

That line nearly killed me. The QC department at Motorola has been asleep at the switch for years now. When we installed new equipment several years ago, there were several "DOA" pieces (including at least two Quantars), all of which had QC acceptance docs.

I knew someone would have a story like this. That is why I said "almost everyone would agree............"

What I see are a lot of people who have not been on this board for very long saying " I haven't heard of any problem's with Nicks radios".

There are also quite a few who seem to know more than others who have posted...... keep in mind, most of us are not end user ham radio operators, some are quite connected with large Government operations, city's, county's and yes.... I have seen a couple of Motorola Employee's post on this subject, of course, the newbies have told them that THEY don't know what they are talking about. Keep in mind these "M" Engineers are pretty lame.

Yes, that flash came from Chicago, not a factory approved flash, it got passed around etc.,etc. Nobody but Nick knows for sure where his parts or flashcode came from. I have a real good idea, but no proof, nor do I really care. The bottom line is the flash code is incompatible with the radio, and can cause problems.

If you were one of the ones that paid a ton for a parts built radio, then enjoy your parts, because that is all you have, a pile of assembled parts. Till it has been aligned, verified to be working 100% and verified all the parts are installed correctly and you have no more or no less than you should have.... it is a parts radio. I would not risk my life on it.

We will not let Ebay radio's on our system for these very reasons. Because sure as you get in a shootout, and your radio does not work, it is the System Administrators fault, the infrastructure installers fault, Motorola's fault, your priest's fault and anyone else you think you can sue, all because you wanted to save a buck, to have your own "special" radio on the system.

So here's a tip............... if you want a parts built radio, and you can service it yourself, align it yourself & program it on a sys legally yourself, then your set. Otherwise, step up and buy a product that is manufactured to specifications other than increasing someone's personal bank account.

Yes....... I know the flames are coming.

SG

spectragod wrote:So here's a tip............... if you want a parts built radio, and you can service it yourself, align it yourself & program it on a sys legally yourself, then your set. Otherwise, step up and buy a product that is manufactured to specifications other than increasing someone's personal bank account.

Yes....... I know the flames are coming.

SG

Not from me, SG, you bring up a good point: If you have the knowledge and test equipment, or access to both, then you might feel comfortable using on of these radios in a situation where your very life depends on it working. If you are in such a position, then that is great. And I don't begrudge you your choice to rely on your own judgement. But, to say that these radios are just as good as the factory radios is misleading. Some of them may be, but not a one of them has gone through the production line testing.

This is the same analogy I used in an earlier thread when I posted that I buy the "store" brands at the supermarket, not the name brands.
They have the same ingredients, usually packaged the same - the only thing difference is the labelling on the package.

Nicks radios were all missing official M serial number and flashcode tags.
A clue right there that you weren't getting M assembled product.
The whored-out flashcode was another clue.
In addition I was told mine was a parts built radio - so I knew what I was buying and would jave nothing to complain about.
Not everyone put their lives on the line with these radios.
I'm simply a ham radio operator that needed IMBE reception because all the LE in my listening area went digital - and I didn't want to carry 2 radios with me.
Buying one that needed it to protect their life, is the same as buying a used gun where you don't know the maintenance history.
Nick radios were OK for some, and not for others ...

larryepage Posted:
...I work for a large manufacturing company. We happen to make food products.
If we found someone not affiliated with our company making a product, even with our same formulations and our same ingredients, we would pursue them with the full force of the law .... .... We would not allow an unauthorized third party to claim to be making the same product as us.

hampton i totally agree... motorola has a leg to stand on if using the radio for biz or public safety use..

however for amateur or RX, well type acceptance doesnt really much matter.

I agree with moto, just think they approached this wrong.. they could have easily given people a discounted flat rate to depot the radio and replace whatever parts may have been sub-standard / missing, properly aligned the radio and given it a depot sn...

they didnt.. thats what chaps my ass.

grem467 - What I think is whoever sits at the top of the big M isn't taking Nick's radios as a serious threat to their company, so they have assigned someone in M not too high on the food chain that doesn't reallly grasp the problem he is creating by the approach he took to "solve" the problem.

I'm reminded of a tribulal where the chief prosecutor thinks he has to answer to no one and lets his head swell up and he loses focus on the real issue, and it turns into a witch hunt against the poor souls that simply bought the radio.

Ok.. That was definately over the line.

Doug said he was done. So DROP IT!! Keep this thread civil, Please.

JAYMZ

First Warning....

Hello.

Everyone is on the FCC/IC and life or death issue.
I had what looks like the very first case of the Nick be bad Motorola radio case.
Now, Motorola has had a quite some time to sort my case out.
The reason I went with parts built radios was simple, the things were going to be modded anyway.
The radios in question were in the 160 Mhz/170 MHz or 225 Mhz/240Mhz range.
There are NO frequencies that the FCC or IC could care about in the 225 MHz/240 Mhz, nothing there but a bunch of military and diplomatic radios.
No police.
No fire.
No ambulance.
The radios have the exact same channels as were programmed into the military radios.
Yes, alignment was WAY off when I got the radio, did not matter to me.
The radio needed a full alignment anyway, was sent to the late Monty for that.
I know my limits, and doing a good alignment, there was no one better.
I would have not even touched a Nick radio without the help of Monty.
Is a "Monty" radio as good as a Motorola?
I would trust a Monty radio to cover my arse ANY day.
So, we have the FCC/IC thing out of the way.
Now, lets work on the IP thing shall we?
The reason for going the parts built route is simple.
I can get damaged military radios, 100% Motorola, but not working.
The flashcode comes, not from the Nick special, but from the military radio, as the feature set for a military radio is a bit odd, to say the least.
So, we covered the IP issue.
Now, for the public safety liability angle.
The radios were in no way able to be put in a PS system.
You could try all you want, it was not going to happen.
So, I now carry a talkie that does 25 MHz to 550 MHz, AM or FM, no gaps.
NO FCC/IC approval in any way.
This is somehow better?

An interesting developement: I spoke to some one today who recieved a letter despite the fact he dealt directly with Nick - no ebay or yahoo.

It would appear Nick may have kept some records afterall...

Mike

My guess is PayPal. That's a common denominator between ebay, yahoo auctions, & direct dealings. Nick always took Paypal.

Victor Xray wrote:My guess is PayPal. That's a common denominator between ebay, yahoo auctions, & direct dealings. Nick always took Paypal.

That must be it... he said he payed with paypal.

Mike

sja505 wrote:I'm sure the IP coppers will read this and send me a nasty letter telling me to send them my computer or something now.

I guess big brother is watching this thread... I just checked my MOL account, and my 'net-30' privileges have been removed. Credit-card only now, and no more free software either.

T.

Hello.

Yes, I sent funds to Nick with paypal.
I had some real trouble with paypal around the time Motorola was after my arse.
In fact, I sent funds to this board aroud that time, never got the batboard supporter thing.
Everything MIGHT be related, so, the question is.
Who all used PAYPAL to pay Nick?
Who all used PAYPAL to send funds to batlabs?
Who did not get the batlabs supporter thingy?
Lets see if this is indeed the case. my guess is that we found it.

Cowthief wrote:Hello.
Everything MIGHT be related, so, the question is.
Who all used PAYPAL to pay Nick?
Who all used PAYPAL to send funds to batlabs?
Who did not get the batlabs supporter thingy?
Lets see if this is indeed the case. my guess is that we found it.

You just have to speak up to get credit for your donation or email the receipt to the right person.

What are you trying to imply... ?

Mike

Cowthief wrote:Hello.

Yes, I sent funds to Nick with paypal.
I had some real trouble with paypal around the time Motorola was after my arse.
In fact, I sent funds to this board aroud that time, never got the batboard supporter thing.
Everything MIGHT be related, so, the question is.
Who all used PAYPAL to pay Nick?
Who all used PAYPAL to send funds to batlabs?
Who did not get the batlabs supporter thingy?
Lets see if this is indeed the case. my guess is that we found it.

Don't forget, about a year ago, ebay BOUGHT paypal.....

Has anyone called Motorola and asked if they would be compensated if they returned their Nick radio? That's the only way Motorola will get my AS3 is to either replace it with another AS3 or XTS.

I have not gotten a letter because I purchased my radios at hamfests, but if motorola would be willing to replace my Nick radio for another NON nick radio, I'm game

The letters motorola sent you all, use that as toilet paper. If they send another, use it to start a fire in your fire place. The only way they can force you to return the radio is to take you to court and prove to a judge that you have their property. If this was to happen, you'd receive a summons from your local police officer or another officer of the court that you have to sign for. Until the cops show up with a summons, you don't have anything to worry about.

Motorola is pissed because Nick reversed engineered their hardware and software to build and enable certain features. If Motorola can prove nick actually did this, then they can try to sue him using the DCMA signed by Clinton in 1996.

what is MOL?

Motorola On-Line

https://businessonline.motorola.com

Not to start a rumor...... but I understand they may be looking at retrieving the 123ABC XTS radio's now. Just a rumor I heard, no fact to it yet.

SG

I have been wondering about those 123ABC1234 radios - but if M has a legal standing there - wouldn't they have shut down panter88 on ebay?

They might not be able to touch him in Hong Kong - but M's ebay buddies would sure cancel his auctions in a heartbeat if M asked them to.

Time will tell...

Not sure about his current sales but he's been dealing with radios, even astro versions of sabers for quite some time. I got a few astro radios from him a while back.
not sure now, but he used to be expensive on shipping and used a moddleman in TX or something to take payments.

Nice guy, got some astro saber 1 & 2's for DIRT cheap.

how hard is it to get an MOL account?

K0DEN wrote:how hard is it to get an MOL account?

From the _Return of the pink panther_

"How does an idiot such as yourself become a police inspector?"

"That's easy, you just fill out the forms."

I filled out the forms myself last year. After a bit of fussing around on the phone, presto.

"I didn't used to be able to spell engineer, now I are one."

Jeff

aaaaaaah i gotcha

Back to the original subject at hand however...

What exactly is the issue with Motorola about the "Nick Radios"?

Obviously they aren't "Factory" but what's the problem?

Is it only that they're parts built?
Is it the flash code?
Is it that they may not have been programmed with a legal copy of the software required to do it?

What?

Jeff

i too am quite facinated with this

this is why i usually stick the MA/COM radios but now i am starting to branch into mother radios

Sorry to interrupt

I think the trouble M has with Nick built radios are in two areas:
i) Liability with a radio malfunctioning in a critical incident, leaving them open to a tort action.
ii) IP issues with the radio operating systems (Flashcode and Host) because the whore-out flash has a few incompatibilties which means it was not offered legitimately.

Bugs

I'd have to chime in at this point and state that IF /\/\otorola had/has a problem with that specific flash code, they might as well give it up because from many different angles I can say that radios with that flash code have been svc'd. by the depot.
Radios I've owned, radios other members on here have mentioned they did exactly that with, radios that were PARTS built and depo'd. and came back with SN's and all.

Seems like more of an issue with this is being made then there actually is from my point of view. Everyone who got a letter should ask motorola what reimbursement is planned on, when "said" radio is returned. Depot service, ( i doubt they will do that since that would basically be saying that the radio "can be made safe" with a two hour service visit and if that's the case, why was that not the original offering from motorola to begin with. I think that if (not sure how many letters were received), but say 30 nick radios exist out there verified and motorola wants them back, well motorola better plan on shipping 30 xts3000 or xts5000 radios in return or there's NO DICE.

(If I owned one ) they can have my NICK radio when they pry it out of my cold dead hands, or when they entice me with the xts5000R.

I'm sure there will be differences of opinion here, but regardless of that- I think if it were indeed a "legal" issue with parts not being paid for, or better yet stolen, there would be some sort of recovery process under way, using PROPER channels, as in letters from local DA, SHerrif's office, or maybe even the motorola vice squad (joke).

Bring it on.

The only problem I see with your logic in this is the terminology that they are using. They have called the radios counterfeit in nature... therefore you are in possesion with a counterfeited device. Think of it as a $100 bill. You go to Wal Mart and do your food shopping and pay with a $100 bill that turns out to be a fake. First of all you can be arrested for trying to pass a counterfeit bill.. but with that aside they seize your bill. You really think Wal Mart, your bank or the US Treasury is going to give you $100 because you were unlucky enough to get stuck with a fake bill? No.. not in a million years. It's a case of.. "Sorry for your luck". And in this case it turns out to be a $1000 radio. So... "Sorry for your luck". Turn your radio in... don't turn it in. Honestly I could care less what anyone does with their radios, but if they are going to go after people with Nick radios I don't beleive you have a legal leg to stand on when saying "You have to pay me for it.". Their reaction might end up being.. "You have the right to remain silent, etc etc etc"

Do I think they will go to that measure. I dunno. It's a strange world anymore. The rumors are flying about that someone in Hong Kong was raided for having illegal Motorola radios they were selling on eBay. So just remember you said "Bring it on" when someone comes to reclaim the radio.

I think its bull, just another big company trying to bully the consumer.

I understand all the implications of the radios being parts built, and legal rights to the software in each, etc. But i still thinks its a load of horse crap.

All in all, i think Motorola is going to come out in the end with a loss of customers. Especially if they go after retrieving the radios with all means necessary to get them. Like i mentioned before, i know someone who has one, but he got it from a hamfest and therefore never got a letter. So if they want all those radios its going to be a man hunt, because a lot of them are floating around without a paper trail to follow to the door of the owner.

What Motorola has to understand is if they pursue this to the point of legal implications against each owner they will be looking at a lot of bad press for it. Another big company goes after helpless end users, etc.

Sure, some did know what they were getting into before buying one of these radios. But some actually didn't know any better as he sold them for quite some time without letting everyone know they were parts built. Yeah yeah, people should have known from the price that something was too good to be true, etc etc... Plenty of excuses.

It's like anything you buy on eBay these days, you don't know where it was made, how it was made, the quality, the defects, etc. I usually only buy radios from eBay that i know i can repair, or get repaired, and are cheap enough to allow for the cost of repair, if necessary. And a bunch of people bought these radios from Nick because Motorola's price made you think that the knobs must be solid gold, or the PCB traces are all gold.

All i can say about Motorola's prices, Bend Over.

With all due respect Jaymz:

Using your analogy of a counterfeit $100 bill - if you got one from the bank or a guy on the street corner - unless you try to pass it on - KNOWING IT IS COUNTERFEIT - you have done nothing wrong - you are a victim.

If you want to put it in a frame on the wall as a reminder to be more careful - so be it - it's yours - you own it.

Federal law prohibits you from making one or passing one [currency that is] - getting stuck with one is a different issue.

As far as a parts built radio - for AMATEUR RADIO use - you can put together a collection of bits and pieces in an empty tuna-fish can and make any kind of radio you want. It's strictly between you and the FCC. As far as putting a Motorola label on your creation and passing it off to someone else - that is an IP trademark issue between you and Motorola. [as Nick found out]

JAYMZ wrote:The only problem I see with your logic in this is the terminology that they are using. They have called the radios counterfeit in nature... therefore you are in possesion with a counterfeited device. Think of it as a $100 bill. You go to Wal Mart and do your food shopping and pay with a $100 bill that turns out to be a fake. First of all you can be arrested for trying to pass a counterfeit bill.. but with that aside they seize your bill. You really think Wal Mart, your bank or the US Treasury is going to give you $100 because you were unlucky enough to get stuck with a fake bill? No.. not in a million years.

The difference is, it's illegal to counterfeit U.S. Currency. It's also illegal to counterfeit copyrighted products as in clothing with bogus labels, CD's, consumer electronics, etc....

But again the difference is that the manufacturers of "counterfeit" merchandise elsewhere are A) using their own parts or materials to manufacture the product and are B) representing it as a new product even though it was made with non-original parts or materials.

Nick was doing neither. He was using GENUINE Motorola parts (wherelse would he get them? It would cost a HELL of a lot more to tool up and make XTS vocons / controllers, etc than he was making on these radios)
and I distinctly remember that on his ebay auctions (including the one I bought) he made it perfectly clear in his auction text that it was a "Parts built" radio.

Motorola is really stretching and abusing the word "counterfeit" in this situation and I think it will come back to bite them in the posterior. Rolex lost their case and Motorola will fare no better.

What i'm wondering, is did Nick get all of them with that flashcode already in them and then he assembled the radios?

Seems to me it would have been a lot more work to have to flash all of them instead of having ready made parts to assemble.

Oh, almost forgot to add. I now know of at least one that was turned into the depot for repairs when the display went wacky on it. It came back with a serial number and OEM labels, but they left that whored out flash in it. A ham owns it, but i ain't naming names!

xmo wrote:As far as a parts built radio - for AMATEUR RADIO use - you can put together a collection of bits and pieces in an empty tuna-fish can and make any kind of radio you want... As far as putting a Motorola label on your creation and passing it off to someone else - that is an IP trademark issue between you and Motorola.

Exactly. Firstly: there's nothing, nothing, NOTHING Motorola can do if you decided to make a parts-built radio without labels and use it for amateur use (which I think a substantial percentage of Nick radios are used for).
Secondly, the fact that Moto yanked access on MOL to the make/model etuscheons (or however you spell them) is all the acknowledgement you need that they are well aware of the FCC rules regarding amateur radio equipment.

So, if anyone is really that scared:
1. Get an amateur license (if you don't have one)
2. Remove the Motorola/XTS branding on the case
3. Send a letter back to Motorola letting them know that their worries about "public safety" do not apply to this radio, as this is a parts-built radio for amateur use only. Let them know that under FCC Code 97(I think it's 97, someone correct me if I'm wrong) the onus is on the amateur radio operator to ensure the radio operates properly. Make sure you send them a picture of your radio without the branding, just to reinforce that you are using a parts-built radio, and not a 'genuine' Motorola product.

My $0.02.
-JG

if the radio is also being used stricktly as a receiver then it doesnt need type acceptance either.

although they would probably get pretty pissy about an 800 on a trunked sys...

grem467 wrote:if the radio is also being used stricktly as a receiver then it doesnt need type acceptance either.

although they would probably get pretty pissy about an 800 on a trunked sys...

Yeah, which brings up that whole "if you're affiliating, are you really transmitting" debate....

Personally, I never could afford and XTS (Nick-brand or not) at the time he was selling them, so I don't care either way.... but I can easily afford one now.

If anyone here wants to sell their XTS3K that they got from Nick (pref. VHF), just send me a PM, and you can go ahead and forward my contact info to Motorola when you ship me the radio!

-JG

The amateur use arguments are all well and good, as long as you load the radio with your own open source firmware, P25 codec, and service it using your own service software.

Here's a point for thought for those who are trying to figure out the issue: This enforcement effort is being spear headed by the Intellectual Property Enforcement division. It is not being run by Loss Prevention / Asset Management / Inventory Control, or whatever /\/\ calls the divison that deals with physical property.

That should say something about where their thinking is coming from.