'Nick' Radios Being Recalled . . . BY MOTOROLA !

fire_master_21 · Post by **fire_master_21** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:20 pm

just thought I would chime in for the 500th post on this thread

com501 · Post by **com501** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:48 pm

Ebay has publicly stated that they will supply ANY law enforcement agency or court ANY information (including financial) about ANY customer without the benefit or necessity of requiring a court order to do so.

Their head of security said a faxed request was all that was necessary......

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:07 pm

Yep, it's true.

Been there done that.

mancow

Cowthief · Post by **Cowthief** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:21 am

Hello.

Yes, ebays policy makes me worry.
Ebay will not inform the customer that the information was released.
Motorola, like a LOT of American firms, is having a hard time.
If it were not for the IP issues, there might not be a Motorola.
Remember the low-end radio market? things like the SP50.
Kenwood was one of the first to put out a good replacement.
Now, there are things like the traxx, things made in china.
A radio, in VHF-hi or UHF, PL and DPL, 6 watts, 48 channels with whatever offset you want, waterproof to 3 feet.
And, a price of $60.
So, Motorola is fighting for its market share.
What I think is cool about the traxx is the ability to both power and charge the radio from a power port that is built into the radio.
There is, of course, a drop in charger.
There is no RSS provided, or needed, for programming.
There is this magnetic key, works a reed switch on the board.

com501 · Post by **com501** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:29 am

I am a Kenwood and a Motorola dealer, as well as BK.

My problem is Motorola doesn't play nice. KW and BK/RELM don't care WHAT radios I sell (they would prefer I sell theirs of course) but don't make a big stink about it.

My rep from Circle M is always threatening to pull my dealership because I sell other product. Although the exclusivity thing is nice in theory, it doesn't make good business sense anymore.

I personally don't have or carry moto radios unless I have to anymore. Since KW has come out with the APCO25 product and the P25 trunking product, I have almost completely switched. Only problem now is dealing with the 3 proprietary systems that I still have to operate on, 2 moto and 1 EDACS.

Ebay, on the other hand, is the Gestapo as far as I am concerned. I can't even sell things that I BOUGHT on Ebay anymore due to a few of these VERO folks, who NEVER seem to have a clue about auctions and individual rights to resell used items.....

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:48 am

What is Motorola's position about shops selling more than one vendor's product? I would imagine they don't like it, but is that grounds to have your dealer license revoked? Seems to me your shop would benifit from selling everyone else...gives the customer a choice!

There's a shop near me that sells Kenwood, Icom, Motorola and I think Vertex. In fact, come to think of it, all the shops near me sell more than just Motorola.

Splat · Post by **Splat** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:31 am

My local radio shop(hereafter "LRS") sells Motorola, Kenwood, Vertex, and Midland. I'm glad they do, too. I was going to purchase a # of HT1550 radios but looking at the other choices piqued my interest. After much testing and discussion we went with the Kenwood TK-3180. I can say we made the right decision. Maybe Motorola doesn't like to have the competition in the same LRS because of what happened in our scenario. Guess Motorola doesn't like the customer to think he has a choice.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:57 pm

A lot of jurisdictions have trade practices legislation that would let a dealer light a fire under the backside of a supplier who tries to monster them in such a manner.

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:12 am

com501 wrote:My problem is Motorola doesn't play nice.

My rep from Circle M is always threatening to pull my dealership because I sell other product.

"Doesn't play well with others." That is an understatement.
They have also (allegedly*) told their dealers who not to sell to "or else."

The real issue here, with the upcoming trial, is what happens if they win.

Consider this. If you repair, reprogram, modify and/or sell a used radio, you can face jail time, or at the very least, watch your life and career go in the toilet. And what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. I doubt if they'd take a "hands off" approach towards their mss people.

It reminds me of the old tag line on the TV show Outer Limits. "We control..."

Jeff

Note: Allegedly.... I don't need a lawsuit from them right now.
507/31911

Tony Soprano · Post by **Tony Soprano** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:23 am

In regards to the previous post, Motorola has released documents to its MSS community via MOL this week regarding how to spot "Nick" radios, how to deal with them if they come in for service, and other items relating to Motorola's IP policies. They even mention the "Nick whore flashcode" by name, calling it the "Watchbuddy/Chicago flash". This is the first time that this issue has been addressed at the MSS level, and it's very interesting reading indeed.

Most interesting, is what to do if a customer wants to keep the radio. The customer is strongly encouraged not to use it, but if the customer wishes to keep it, they are encouraged to send the radio to the Elgin Depot to be repaired, brought to factory spec, and assigned a legitimate flashcode and serial number. This would be done on a time and materials quote, and contingent upon whether Motorola thinks it is repairable and can verify legal ownership.

Which begs the question: How would they know who the legitimate owner is, if it bears a 123---1234 serial number?

Tony

Johnny Galaga · Post by **Johnny Galaga** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:38 am

stay-con wrote:Consider this. If you repair, reprogram, modify and/or sell a used radio, you can face jail time, or at the very least, watch your life and career go in the toilet.

Are you refering to dealers, or the average Joe buying radios on eBay?

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:49 am

Johnny Galaga wrote:
stay-con wrote:Consider this. If you repair, reprogram, modify and/or sell a used radio, you can face jail time, or at the very least, watch your life and career go in the toilet.
Are you refering to dealers, or the average Joe buying radios on eBay?

Everyone.

Jeff

Johnny Galaga · Post by **Johnny Galaga** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:40 pm

So what would happen to all the people who have bought or sold Motorola radios on eBay over the last umpteen years?

Certainly all those thousands of people can't all go to jail.

Splat · Post by **Splat** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:13 pm

Sounds too easy for them to give you any # of reasons why they WON'T give you your radio back.... prove ownership?, properly licensed the RSS that was last used to program radio?, etc. It's just like the age old adage that if a cop wants to stop you he'll come up with a reason. Pretty soon ANY item capable of transmitting RF will have to be repaired/programmed/etc by the original manufacturer and proof of ownership of said item(s) will be needed to get the item(s) back. It just could come to this one day.

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:50 pm

Seems to me they'd have a hard time keeping your radio on the basis that it wasn't programmed in a legit MSS. My question would be, how can they prove that? All they can find out was when it was last programmed, and by what method (RSS, CPS, Lab, etc...).

It'd sure be nice if Motorola had some kind of program for these "Nick" that let people send them in and pay some (probably outrageous) amount to get it factory aligned and spec'ed up, dump a proper flashcode (probably just P25 and conventional) and send it back. I'd imagine people who don't care about trunking or any of that business who just use it for ham or conventional stuff would go for it. I sure would.

But prove legal ownership? A radio I bought on eBay 3 or 4 years ago...I wouldn't even know where to start!

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:33 pm

They don't have any legal right at all to hang on to your radio because it wasn't programmed by an MSS. Doing so would constitute mail fraud, which is a federal offence. (You're sending the radio in the belief they will fix it or whatever, but instead, they hang on to it.)

If they have reasonable grounds upon which to think it's stolen, they won't be hanging on to it - the FBI will.

bellersley · Post by **bellersley** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:15 pm

The only thing I can think they might do is pass it on to a police agency like you said, but even then, how are they going to prove (or disprove) ownership? A radio without tags doesn't necessarily mean it's stolen/hot/whatever. My factory UHF Jedi radio doesn't have the original tag because I replaced the back metal plate (antenna connector was loose), so it's got an MTX9000 plate that I found at a hamfest. What if the s/n on the MTX9000 was listed as stolen - does this now give them grounds to take the radio, even though it's legit?

mastr · Post by **mastr** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:40 pm

What if the s/n on the MTX9000 was listed as stolen - does this now give them grounds to take the radio, even though it's legit?

Probably-any stolen component would subject the whole device to retention for further inspection in most jurisdictions. "Legit" radios don't contain stolen parts.

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:39 am

mastr wrote:Probably-any stolen component would subject the whole device to retention for further inspection in most jurisdictions. "Legit" radios don't contain stolen parts.

Except that, with regards to the "Nick radios" there aren't any stolen parts. Well, they might have claimed so in the beginning, but they dropped all the charges against Nick in exchange for a slap on the wrist and a "I won't do it again" permenent injunction.

So.... the "You have stolen parts" claim would be invalid in the case of a "nick radio."

"Unauthorized software." Let's see a show of hands...How many people are using software they bought prior to 2000?

Better not show your hands. Motorola convienently lost all their records due to a "Y2K" compatability issue. So, if you claim to have bought anything prior to 2000, you better have all YOUR original paper in your hand.

Jeff
518/32533

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:07 pm

[quote="stay-So, if you claim to have bought anything prior to 2000, you better have all YOUR original paper in your hand.[/quote]

Receipts for what? I don’t think that Motorola can, or has the authority or power to force an individual to tell them who or how there radio was programmed. Like most people on Batlabs, we have friends or connections that as a favor might program a radio. It’s not illegal to program a radio is it? I don’t think so. So how can they keep a legitimately purchased radio?

Dan...

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:10 pm

"Better not show your hands. Motorola convienently lost all their records due to a "Y2K" compatability issue. So, if you claim to have bought anything prior to 2000, you better have all YOUR original paper in your hand. "

Sorry!

Software piracy is NOT a prima facie crime! They have to prove you pirated the software, not the other way around.

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:08 pm

ScannerDan wrote:Receipts for what? I don’t think that Motorola can, or has the authority or power to force an individual to tell them who or how there radio was programmed. Like most people on Batlabs, we have friends or connections that as a favor might program a radio. It’s not illegal to program a radio is it? I don’t think so. So how can they keep a legitimately purchased radio?

Dan...

Did you read the imfamous "You need to give us the radio" letter that started this thread?

Additionally, they seem to believe that possessing software that you can't prove you bought IS a criminal act. (See above comment about thier "mysterious" database loss due to Y2K.)

Even if they are wrong, you will need pretty deep pockets to go to court and prove it.

And carried over from another thread:

Garyf629 wrote:On a side note: I have always wondered if some day Motorola will say that we do not own our radios. That since they own the firmware that makes the radio work, and without it, the radios are non-functional, will they tell us that we can't sell our radios without their permission.

That is the mind set back in Illinois.

Jeff
521/32859

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:10 am

Several months ago, Patrick Harrington put on a dog and pony show to PROVE that several USED XTS3000s were COUNTERFEIT.

After wasting everyone's time, Motorola went to court with thier motion for summary judgement. With Patrick's "incontrovertable proof."

The judge didn't buy it. I found it amusing that Patrick was deemed "less than credible."

The trial date in federal court has been moved AGAIN.
Now it appears that it will be October 4th.

Maybe for a consolation prize he'll get a T-shirt that reads, "I spent $1.5 million and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."

Jeff
522/33118

kv5e · Post by **kv5e** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:22 pm

Who petishioned for the continuance?

Maybe /\/\ is "four-flushing" with their hand.

I $till would not want to have to call!

kv5e

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:31 am

kv5e wrote:Who petitioned for the continuance?

kv5e

They did.

Jeff

nick.dejohn · Post by **nick.dejohn** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:34 am

Everyone may laugh at this and the delay, but after reading al this, I thought I would just add my cents as well as gain some info on this. I, like many others bought a XTS3000 Model III VHF about a year and a half ago. The radio has been great to me with absolutely no worries or troubles. Recently I moved on in my life and did not need the radio anymore. I posted it one Ebay to sell it. The radio sold off of Ebay to someone. Long story short, he boned me for the money and I went after him. He gave the S/N to a local MSS to him and they figured out it was a DeLuca radio. They gave him all the necessary info to contact Motorola. he contacted this Patrick Harrington who I have seen his name pop up a few times. Patrick told him that the radio would have to be sent to Motorola for immediate destruction. Now, way back when I bought the radio, there was not mention by the original owner that the radio was a parts built radio. I have been in contact with the original owner and he was not made aware that it was "parts built" until long after he sold it to me. With that said, I have gotten out of this Patrick Harrington and I have in an email from him that if I bring the radio to a local MSS to me and have it inspected as well as have any necessary repairs made to it to be brought up to specs, that I could then sell thew radio without any problems.

I have read soem of the posts and I agree 100% that Motorola can not take something that is legal yours. I'm sure that everyone who bought these radios throught and believed at the time that they were buying a 100% legal radio.

Like I said, I know I'm a little late with all this, but can cany of my fellow batlabbers shed some light on this mess so I can know for my self and maybe add it to my ammunition???

Thanks,

yoda · Post by **yoda** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:31 pm

Hey, did some posts "disappear" from this thread?

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:40 pm

yoda wrote:Hey, did some posts "disappear" from this thread?

Yes, they most certainly did.

Just the last 4 or 5 regarding a locked thread elsewhere on this forum regarding a possible Harrington impersonator.

As of about 10 minutes ago, the entire thread dissapeared.

Now that it's back, I can only assume the moderators were busy with a mop and a bucket cleaning things up.

Jeff

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:42 pm

Not dissappeared, relocated they have Master Yoda.

Basically what it comes down to is this. Frank was making some pretty substantial accusations, specifically regarding Alex. After speaking with Alex over the phone, he requested the posts be removed until he can deal with it himself.

Post by **alex** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:30 pm

Here's the deal:

Do I speak with Pat on occassion, yes. Does Pat pull the strings that run this board? No. Is there some huge batlabs internal investigation into the membership about something or other? Lets turn off X-Files and go back to discussing what this board is here for.

Frank can come back when he takes the kettle off the burner, as obviously, it's letting off some steam. Frank - I have met you before, your a nice guy, but jesus christ! Lets step back and get in to reality. Keep up this whole attitude, and you won't be allowed back.

Oh, and your first post was pulled because this is an ebay issue - and IT'S NOT ALLOWED HERE.

I will say this. If a validated request from a law enforcement agency were to be presented to the OWNERS of this board - I'm sure they would comply with whatever the request maybe. This is a message board, and the world does not revolve around it.

So as said before... Turn off X-Files. Stop listening to Mulder... and get back to our regularly scheduled Motorola discussion.

That is all.

-Alex

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:01 pm

alex wrote:Do I speak with Pat on occassion, yes. Does Pat pull the strings that run this board? No.

Pat who ? Not Pat Harrington of Motorola ??

firebug24 · Post by **firebug24** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:19 am

wow,
I hadnt been on the board lately and read most of these posts about Motorola, Nick & Ebay. I really am a laidback type of retired "Law Enforcement" guy but times have changed. I just purchased a real sweet COLT AR-15 rifle and havent had time to do much shooting with it but I can tell you if someone would like to try and get my radios from my house (IT will be on tonight's CNN NEWS) God Bless You !
steve

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:24 pm

nick.dejohn wrote:I have read some of the posts and I agree 100% that Motorola can not take something that is legaly yours. I'm sure that everyone who bought these radios throught and believed at the time that they were buying a 100% legal radio.

Like I said, I know I'm a little late with all this, but can cany of my fellow batlabbers shed some light on this mess so I can know for my self and maybe add it to my ammunition???

Thanks,

This and other issues should be resolved in Federal Court in about 3 weeks. Motorola is contending that repairing and selling used radios constitutes counterfeiting and violation of their trade marks.

How would this affect the average user? Severely. If Motorola has their way, and sets a legal precedent, the sale of any used item could be made illegal.

Think about that for a minute.

No more used cars. No more thrift stores. No more swap meets. No more eBay etc.

Forget about Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson, this really IS the trial of the century.

Jeff

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:39 am

Clear your calenders. The trial is scheduled for next week. October 4th 2005.

It's finally here.

I'm looking forward to it.

DuPage County of: Suburban Job Service/Unemployment Insurance Offices
(630) 495-4345
837 S Westmore Ave
Lombard, IL 60148

I'm sure they can find some form of employment for Patrick.

Jeff

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:33 pm

Is this going to be at 312 N. Spring ? Do you know what court room it's going to be in?

Dan..

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:35 pm

ScannerDan wrote:Is this going to be at 312 N. Spring ? Do you know what court room it's going to be in?

Dan..

No, it's in the Roybal Building
225 E. Temple Street.
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Scheduled for Oct 4th 10 AM through Oct. 7th Room 680 Judge Collins.

The court calender on the wall should name Motorola as the plaintif.

I'll be easy to spot, there aren't too many people wandering around with a pony tail and a three piece suit in court. (Well, unless you're in Santa Monica watching the Hollywood types getting their drug rehab sentencing.)

Patrick should be easy to spot as well. About 60 years old, heavy set. Your typical amateur radio operator look of "I know code, therefore I know EVERYTHING."

A captured copy of a Thomas Bros. map with the location of the court house is on: http://www.grendel.com/roybal.jpg

Or you can look at the court webpage: http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/cacd/Court ... enDocument

Jeff

Johnny Galaga · Post by **Johnny Galaga** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:08 pm

Jeff, good luck tommorow!

Post by **RadShop** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:27 pm

Oh my! Doomsday is scheduled for tomorrow!

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:07 pm

RadShop_Intern wrote:Oh my! Doomsday is scheduled for tomorrow!

Well, crap. I HATE last minute surprises...but...

During the pre-trial motions this afternoon, it got rescheduled for the 11th or there abouts. I'll know a little later this week.

PLEASE don't show up Tuesday unless you like just circling around down town Los Angeles and trying to find a parking space.

Jeff

W6JK · Post by **W6JK** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:39 pm

Arrgh! I sure do wish I'd taken the time to check the Board this morning!

Jeff

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:33 pm

W6JK wrote:Arrgh! I sure do wish I'd taken the time to check the Board this morning!

Jeff

I'm really sorry too. I want this entire mess to be over with. But it won't be long now.

I post again as we get nearer. I don't think there are going to be any more surprises.

Jeff

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:52 pm

So how do YOU feel about this trial ?

Dan..

cbus · Post by **cbus** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:15 pm

just a question

How long does ebay actually keep the info about your purchases/sales ??

I know the auction drops off 'myebay' after 3 months but does ebay keep it forever ??

stay-con · Post by **stay-con** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:30 am

Tracka wrote:How long does ebay actually keep the info about your purchases/sales ??

I know the auction drops off 'myebay' after 3 months but does ebay keep it forever ??

It's probably buried somewhere on thier site, but I would assume that they keep financial records for about 7 years like everyone else does.

And

ScannerDan wrote:So how do YOU feel about this trial ?

Dan..

I'm actuallly looking forward to it.

But then, I'm not the one who should probably be bringing a gallon of Malox(tm) with them.

Bear wtih me please. it's only a few more days.

Oh by the way, they DO read the BatBoard. There's a thick stack of printouts of this thread that now have an official exhibit number attached to it.

So if you'd like to wish Patrick, Craig and the rest good luck, by all means, feel free to.

Jeff

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:52 am

[quote="stay-con] by the way, they DO read the BatBoard. There's a thick stack of printouts of this thread that now have an official exhibit number attached to it. [/quote]

You got to be kidding me!!! Patrick and Co. need to get a life.

W6JK · Post by **W6JK** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:26 pm

I'm really sorry too. I want this entire mess to be over with. But it won't be long now.

I post again as we get nearer. I don't think there are going to be any more surprises.

Hey, at least I got lunch at Olvera Street! And I know where to go now, too.

KG6EAQ · Post by **KG6EAQ** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:51 pm

W6JK wrote:
Hey, at least I got lunch at Olvera Street! And I know where to go now, too.

Which stand did you go to? There are some good places in that block! Can't get more authentic mexican food anywhere else in the US.

Next time you go down, walk one more block to Philipe's, that's always a good one.

W6JK · Post by **W6JK** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:45 pm

I prefer Juanita's. I think their food is better than the others, and the prices are pretty much all the same.

I like Philipe's too, but when I'm downtown I usually seem to want to eat Mexican (insert bawdy joke here).

'JK

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:19 pm

stay-con wrote:
Tracka wrote:How long does ebay actually keep the info about your purchases/sales ??

I know the auction drops off 'myebay' after 3 months but does ebay keep it forever ??
It's probably buried somewhere on thier site, but I would assume that they keep financial records for about 7 years like everyone else does.

And

ScannerDan wrote:So how do YOU feel about this trial ?

Dan..
I'm actuallly looking forward to it.

But then, I'm not the one who should probably be bringing a gallon of Malox(tm) with them.

Bear wtih me please. it's only a few more days.

Oh by the way, they DO read the BatBoard. There's a thick stack of printouts of this thread that now have an official exhibit number attached to it.

So if you'd like to wish Patrick, Craig and the rest good luck, by all means, feel free to.

Jeff

That's just bloody sad.

[ moderated - please - keep the insults to a minimum! -Alex ]

Post by **/\/\y 2 cents** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:48 am

So did anyone find out about DeLuca's fate. I spoke to the guy once on the phone right before the end of his career. Good prices. His background seemed a little shady. Can't really say that I see that the guy did anything wrong. Everything was bought and paid for. Anyone ever hear any final word about good old St. Nick ?

'Nick' Radios Being Recalled . . . BY MOTOROLA !

Ebay, Motorola, and public policy.

A continuance?

Re: A continuance?

WOW Where have I been ?