Batboard

/\/\y 2 cents wrote:So did anyone find out about DeLuca's fate.

This apparently has been answered back on page one of this thread. The 8th posting of this HUGE thread.

Other than an alleged posting of his [nick's] from a Kinko's store front, he's pretty much fallen off the face of the planet.

As my Viet Nam veteran buddies would say; "Four days and a wake up."

Federal Court, Roybal Building
225 E. Temple Street.
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Rescheduled for Oct 11th 10 AM through Oct. 14th Room 680 Honorable Judge Collins presiding. (Probably best to show up early to deal with the parking and access to the building.)

Jeff
549/37670

stay-con wrote:

/\/\y 2 cents wrote:So did anyone find out about DeLuca's fate.

This apparently has been answered back on page one of this thread. The 8th posting of this HUGE thread.

Other than an alleged posting of his [nick's] from a Kinko's store front, he's pretty much fallen off the face of the planet.

As my Viet Nam veteran buddies would say; "Four days and a wake up."

Federal Court, Roybal Building
225 E. Temple Street.
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Rescheduled for Oct 11th 10 AM through Oct. 14th Room 680 Honorable Judge Collins presiding. (Probably best to show up early to deal with the parking and access to the building.)

Jeff
549/37670

God bless ya!! We'll win this I'm sure. I'm wondering those who got the letters from Motorola and Patrick are there any grounds for a lawsuit? I mean he and Motorola caused a lot of people to be stressed out, lose sleep, and have no more sexdrive. Those sound like real damages. Motorola has deep pockets. I know wishful thinking I was just thinking out loud

Dan..

Maybe they are preparing to pay out by closing down shop and laying off a bunch of people.

stay-con wrote:Federal Court, Roybal Building
225 E. Temple Street.
Los Angeles, CA 90012

Rescheduled for Oct 11th 10 AM through Oct. 14th Room 680 Honorable Judge Collins presiding. (Probably best to show up early to deal with the parking and access to the building.)

Jeff

It's still on as of this morning.
Tuesday: Jury selection
Wednesday: Not sure, there's some last minute stuff going on.
Thursday: Back in court.

I'll try to let you know what and when each night.

Jeff

As Sherlock Holmes would say, "The game is afoot."

Federal Court, Roybal Building
225 E. Temple Street.
Los Angeles, CA 90012

There's parking across the street and around the corner on Anaheim St.

The trial has started. Opening arguments have been given and Motorola presented their first witnesses. Part two of Patrick will be tomorrow morning.

Preliminary (lawyer) stuff starts in the mornings around 8:30 AM and the jury comes in around 9:00 AM.

Jeff

Hey Jeff, what's this particular case about.... is it pertaining to Nick? I thought that was already done. Thanks.

Splat wrote:Hey Jeff, what's this particular case about.... is it pertaining to Nick? I thought that was already done. Thanks.

You would think so... But Nick gets mentioned a lot.

The good news. This should be over within a week.

Jeff

This and other issues should be resolved in Federal Court in about 3 weeks. Motorola is contending that repairing and selling used radios constitutes counterfeiting and violation of their trade marks.

How would this affect the average user? Severely. If Motorola has their way, and sets a legal precedent, the sale of any used item could be made illegal.

Think about that for a minute.

No more used cars. No more thrift stores. No more swap meets. No more eBay etc.

Forget about Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson, this really IS the trial of the century.

Jeff[/quote]


This is ABSUE and a complete waste of our legal resources. Motorola is acting like a spoiled child. How can you assert that you have exclusive rights to "intellectual property" when YOU SELL ALL THE HARDWARE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS IT? How can you claim the exclusive right to the transfer or title of ownership when you don't make such terms or conditions clear in the beginning of the sale?

Motorola SUCKS. Pat Harrington himself just cancelled my auction of a legally owned GP-68. What right does Motorola have to dictate what the legal owner of a piece of property can do with their items? If Harrington wants to cut me a check for the price of all of my Mototrash I would WELCOME it. Anything to be through dealing with these turds.

I will *GLADLY* go give my money to Icom, Vertex Standard and Kenwood. And I will even moreso *GLADLY* tell others how Motorola's mafioso business practices come as a package deal and buy Vertex, Icom or Kenwoods. Anything but Mexirola.

Anybody want to buy a VHF GP-68 or WILL TAKE TRADES...SEE MY F/S POST. Unless Pat Harrington cancels that too.

What a shame that company has become. Apparently they want so much control over their products they want to go so far as to tell you what you can and can't do with it AFTER the sale.

WC4RAV wrote:This is ABUSE and a complete waste of our legal resources.

As much as I'd like to agree with you on this, I can't.
(a) court is still in session
(b) if we win, it will NOT have been in vain.

The good news: It's almost over.
The bad news: It's not over yet.

So far
Tuesday: Jury selection and opening arguements.
Wednesday: Motorola's witnesses
Thursday: Motorola's witnesses and our witnesses.
Friday: Our witnesses, including myself.

Coming up
Next Tuesday: Our final witness, closing arguments and jury instructions.
Next Wednesday: Hopefully "the verdict"

I suspect most people would not like being a witness in a federal court.
I was actually looking forward to it, and found it to be an interesting experience.
And I would like to thank Shari for the professional job she did cross examining me.

Jeff
film at eleven (as they say)
557/39364

Jeff, just checking to make sure you're still alive. How's it going in the lion's den?

Station House Products wrote:Jeff, just checking to make sure you're still alive. How's it going in the lion's den?

I am very much alive. This circus should be over by Wednesday.

Jeff

The one time I WANTED to be called up for Jury Duty and I don't get it

I can build a radio from parts, I have done it many times to replace radios that have gone overboard or have been run over or destroyed. The users of these radios have already paid for the different types of smart zone or MDC options. I can also build a vehicle from scratch and call it a ford or Dodge and get a VIN from the state DMV and Ford or Chrysler won't come after me.

stay-con wrote:This circus should be over by Wednesday.

It was handed over to the jury Tuesday afternoon. They did not reach a verdict by 4:30 PM last night. So.... We sit around the court house and wait. One of the requirements is that you (and your lawyers) be within 10 minutes of the court room.

Jeff

I just got word -

Apparently, the verdict is in.

It is OK to sell used/remanufactured radios - providing that it is clearly stated that it is such.

I would await the final writing of the court to come out or someone who attended to fill in the rest of the holes. From what I understand, the individual in this case was nailed to the wall for having to admitted to possessing and using lab software. I wasn't told an amount, but it was described as very painful.

Stay tuned.

-Alex

How about some commentary from someone who doesn't consort with the loosing team. Stay-con?

-c

clavo wrote:How about some commentary from someone who doesn't consort with the loosing team. Stay-con?

-c

Actually, that info came from me talking directly to Stay-Con on the phone.

Please take a minute to remove your foot from your mouth.

alex wrote:I just got word -

Apparently, the verdict is in.

It is OK to sell used/remanufactured radios - providing that it is clearly stated that it is such.

This was my understanding. Repairing and reselling used radios, and I think, even parts built radios is ok, as long as they are clearly presented as such.

From what I understand, the individual in this case was nailed to the wall for having to admitted to possessing and using lab software. I wasn't told an amount, but it was described as very painful.

I would have to go back over a mountain of paperwork to state categorically what software was at issue. However, I will say this, it was NOT strictly limited to lab software. This means copies of R100 or GP300 software as well.

For the record, if you get caught with stuff you are not supposed to have, they (Mother M) will agressively go after you.

As I said earlier on in this thread, if you DO have legal copies of software, you had DAMN WELL make sure you have ALL of your paperwork in order and in your posession to prove it. Because if "they" lose the records, you're toast.

Stay tuned.

Heh, "Stay Connected"
Sorry, I just saw that as the perfect opportunity to give my company name a cheap plug.

It is my opinion that the bottom line is, Motorola has the kind of money, and the resources, to destroy you if they see fit.

Jeff
568/40356

Johnny Galaga wrote:Today, I received a letter via certified mail from Motorola telling me that they have sued Nicholas DeLuca for selling parts built counterfeit radios. Motorola got my address via a subpoena, so apparantly Nick kept all his customers' contact information on file. The letter says "subpoenaed records indicate that you purchased an ASTRO Saber III and/or XTS Series radio(s) from Mr. DeLuca, either through the Internet service provider Yahoo! and/or eBay auctions..."

The letter demands that I call them and ship them the radio I bought from Nick (a.k.a. watchbuddy or apcosystem) 2-3 years ago on eBay or they will take further legal action ! Is that a bunch of bullcrap or what ?! Has anyone else gotten the same letter ?

What am I supposed to do ? Sit back and get burned for the $1000 that I paid for the radio. Does Motorola have the legal right to do this ? Wouldn't I have to be ordered by a judge to turn over the radio ?

The court case shown on the letter is:

Re: United States District Court for the District of Arizona
Motorola, Inc. v. Nicholas DeLuca, et al
Case No. CIV04 128TUCRCC

The letter lists other eBay names that Nick has used as:

Kickitinn
Radio Hut
Portaradio
thebuyer

Hi all...

This case the this clear as water and must be closed to the discussion... .Why?

Because Mr., must to know that he was buying a robbed radius of some part....Motorola only sells this type of equipment to the federal agencies and if some person finds it or robs it and soon it sells by nobody via, the person who buys this participating in the crime and can and must be punished for that reason....

The equipment that buys and uses the federal government and the federal agencies is federal property and is protected by special laws and the people who participate and/or collaborate with this type of crime is punished with fine and/or prison.

Summarizing.... all we must think better before participating in these "wonderful" purchases.


Regards

It was CLEARLY stated in Nick's ebay ads that these were parts built radios. I don't understand what you are trying to say. If someone were to purchase a used astro, and upon receipt noticed it was filled with LAPD freq's, it's time to worry. These were all new radios with only 1 test simplex freq installed. It's not like these radios were bought in a back alley for $200. And by the way both of mine still work perfectly. 73's to all. GARY N4KVE

magc06 wrote: Enough to show I didn't read past the first post...

You are entitled to your opinion, but try to make sure it's an informed one. Motorola does NOT just sell these radios to Federal Agencies. They will sell them to whoever is willing to pay for them.

Todd

Friends... do not take offense, please!... what I clearly mean is that if one buys a radius that knows that it belongs to the government... it does not have to buy it, because that is going to him to bring problems.... a new equipment of box, costs 2500$ (or more) to you and your it purchases per 1000 or 500 and this new one, I must suspect that that equipment does not come from one legal way.

Regards

So, what about the people that responded to the letters and sent their equipment to them?

Or what about the people that still have these radios and would like to get them checked out to make sure that are in compliance. Mine seems to be working perfectly but I do have some c oncerns about the radio that appear to be minor.

Yadda Yadda Yadda. So did Pat Harrington give you and Alexis the key to his place yet?

For what it's worth.... You will have just as much success keeping me off this board as you did r0f. And we all know how that story played out *laugh*

Some people just aren't good losers. Grow up already.

clavo wrote:For what it's worth.... You will have just as much success keeping me off this board as you did r0f. And we all know how that story played out *laugh*

Ahh, another contender for the Fail 001/Brain Out of Lock message!

Yep. Sent to my bedroom without desert.

Another member of the exclusive batboard 'no fly' club.

What WILL I do.

-c

wavetar wrote:

magc06 wrote: Enough to show I didn't read past the first post...

You are entitled to your opinion, but try to make sure it's an informed one. Motorola does NOT just sell these radios to Federal Agencies. They will sell them to whoever is willing to pay for them.

Todd

The federal Gov't also sells surplus FEDERAL radios at auction

Okay, okay, we're getting off track here with all the Clavo flames and junk. What I wanna know is the facts of the case. Exactly what was at issue in court? How many different decisions did the jury make and what did they decide?

Bottom line, did Motorola WIN or LOSE?? What does Motorola intend to do regarding the letter of death? Are there any court documents available for public reading? What kind of dollar figures were involved in this case? Is this the kind of thing where the loser has to pay all the opponent's legal fees?

Johnny Galaga wrote:Bottom line, did Motorola WIN or LOSE?? What does Motorola intend to do regarding the letter of death?

Some of each. Beyond that, I can't comment on anything else at this time.

Personally, I doubt that the "letter of death" will go any further.

Jeff

clavo wrote: For what it's worth.... You will have just as much success keeping me off this board as you did r0f. And we all know how that story played out *laugh*

Yes we do...he's still not here. Buh bye, dumbass.

Todd

I fear the poor schmucks who sent M their radios are SCROOD.

RR Spectra wrote:I fear the poor schmucks who sent M their radios are SCROOD.

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

I was talking to a solicitor about this several weeks ago, and he says that (under our law at least), you would have a fair chance of being able to charge Pat himself with fraud. The main difficulty would be getting the FBI or whoever to do something about hauling him in.

mr.syntrx wrote:I was talking to a solicitor about this several weeks ago, and he says that (under our law at least), you would have a fair chance of being able to charge Pat himself with fraud.

Perhaps if everyone who sent in their radio were to send him an equally threatening letter demanding that he return the radio?

"Oh? You crushed it? I guess you owe me a new one then." heh heh.

Jeff
583/41475

During the court case, did the jury ever get to see Motorola's nasty letter of death?

Johnny Galaga wrote:During the court case, did the jury ever get to see Motorola's nasty letter of death?

No, but Patrick did refer to it as part of his "We did everything possible to retreive these radios" testimony.

Jeff

Someone else mentioned it too, didn't they, Jeff?

W6JK wrote:I prefer Juanita's. I think their food is better than the others, and the prices are pretty much all the same.

I like Philipe's too, but when I'm downtown I usually seem to want to eat Mexican (insert bawdy joke here).

'JK

Make your way up to Camarillo, or Oxnard, and get a cheesesteak from the Great Central Steak and Hoagie Hut. Best cheesesteaks I have ever eaten.

I still haven't heard what the out come of the case was???? I have one of these radios and was trying to sell it and the future owner turned me in to Pat as well. I preety much told him to go scratch. Send who ever you want after me. There is no proof that any of us purchased illegal radios. As far as well are all concerned, (or at least I am ) the radio I purchased was a used radio in working condition.

My question is that Patrick said in his nasty letter that the current owners could not sell the radios without them being checked over by "Big M". BUt, I think that if the court rules that the radios are ok and can be sold, that the radios will be allowed to be sold.

Basically, what is going to happen with this whole thing?????

nick.dejohn wrote:Basically, what is going to happen with this whole thing?????

No kidding........42,182 views and months of waiting.
Now it's all over and still nobody is really saying anything.

alex wrote:I just got word -

Apparently, the verdict is in.

It is OK to sell used/remanufactured radios - providing that it is clearly stated that it is such.

I would await the final writing of the court to come out or someone who attended to fill in the rest of the holes. From what I understand, the individual in this case was nailed to the wall for having to admitted to possessing and using lab software. I wasn't told an amount, but it was described as very painful.

Stay tuned.

-Alex

I thought that this was pretty clear... OK to sell used/reman radios as long as stated as such, but still illegal to have unlicensed RSS/CPS, which they can enforce...

The details aren't there, but the jist is pretty clear. Did I miss something?

Cheers,

boomboy64 wrote:I thought that this was pretty clear... OK to sell used/reman radios as long as stated as such, but still illegal to have unlicensed RSS/CPS, which they can enforce...

The details aren't there, but the jist is pretty clear. Did I miss something?

Cheers,

Unfortunately, this is real life and not CSI or Law & Order. Things don't get all neatly wrapped up by the end of the program.

Personally, I'd love to make a lot of things perfectly clear on this, but I can't at this time due to "it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings."

But you're right about both of the above.

Jeff

I'd still like to see the writing from the court docket when it gets released - if it hasn't been already...

boomboy64 wrote:

alex wrote:I just got word -

Apparently, the verdict is in.

It is OK to sell used/remanufactured radios - providing that it is clearly stated that it is such.

I would await the final writing of the court to come out or someone who attended to fill in the rest of the holes. From what I understand, the individual in this case was nailed to the wall for having to admitted to possessing and using lab software. I wasn't told an amount, but it was described as very painful.

Stay tuned.

-Alex

I thought that this was pretty clear... OK to sell used/reman radios as long as stated as such, but still illegal to have unlicensed RSS/CPS, which they can enforce...

The details aren't there, but the jist is pretty clear. Did I miss something?

Cheers,

I was referring to building a complete unit from used or new parts (even without the use of lab or other restricted SW).


mancow

mancow wrote:I was referring to building a complete unit from used or new parts (even without the use of lab or other restricted SW).

That should be obvious. Regardless of where the parts come from, it is nothing more than a used radio that has been repaired.

Think in terms of a simple tool like a hammer. If you break the handle and replace it, it is still a used and repaired hammer. If you then break one of the claws off the head and replace that, it is still a used and repaired hammer.

The real problem with the "Nick" radios was the parts used were allegedly never paid for. Which considering the amount involved, I find it hard to comprehend the settlement terms listed on the settlement Nick has with Motorola (see reference to page 1 of this thread.)

The bottom line, to me, is this. Even if every part in a radio is new, i.e. "parts built" as long as it is NOT represented as a "new" (as in from the factory) radio there isn't any problem with it.

Jeff

Screw Motorola. Their radios can't be considered 'different' than anyone else's, just because they cram firmware & software into them. Any schmuck can build a computer out of the components of his choice...all filled to the nuts with proprietary firmware, software, and hardware. Said schmuck can then sell it to whomever he pleases, and the manufacturers of the parts can't do diddly about it, as long as he doesn't go around claiming it to be an actual 'HP' or 'DELL' machine. Same thing with Motorola radios. If it isn't stolen, and can't be proven so (remember, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused...or so American law claims) then do what you damned well please.

Todd

LAC-OPS wrote:Someone else mentioned it too, didn't they, Jeff?

Not that I can find in my notes. I finally found time to look them over for the first time this morning, and I'll be the first to say that they're less than complete, but it seems that the letter itself is only mentioned by Patrick. Of course, the questions about your comments here on the Batboard are an oblique reference to the letter, but I think that point was omitted.

(the other) Jeff

mancow wrote:42,182 views and months of waiting.
Now it's all over and still nobody is really saying anything.

Because I work nights for the Astronomy department of a local college, I was able to observe the trial and take notes on almost all of the testimony. I'll be offering up comments and observations on that when I find some time to write them up. However, as to the verdicts and whatever shakes out in the aftermath, I know no more than the rest of you. I'm sure we'll hear about it when the time is right.

Jeff

W6JK wrote:However, as to the verdicts and whatever shakes out in the aftermath, I know no more than the rest of you. I'm sure we'll hear about it when the time is right.

The jury returned the verdict October 19th... The judge requested that Motorola submit their motion to enter judgement within 10 days.

Oddly enough, they been dragging thier feet on this.

More on this when it finally breaks loose.

Jeff
599/43093