Batboard

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:24 am**

Trying to read a VHF HT600 in RSS... all attempts to read the radio (or do a
port check) results in SERIAL BUS ERROR 011 or SERIAL CHECK FAILED! CHECK SETUP.

The setup works fine, it reads and writes my other Genesis radios perfectly.

Had the radio programmed a few years ago at another radio shop and it worked fine.

Anyone have any ideas as to whats wrong? Using a 486.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:51 pm**

HI:

1. This really has been covered a few times, so if you
desire more detailed information, go to the Seach mode.

However:

The HT600's/P200's/MT1000's sometimes need the Contacts
Cleaned on top....Use a # 2 Pencil Eraseur. and do not be
excessive ( unless the contacts ) are badly damaged.

Also, sometimes the Grounds get compromised, and you
should make sure the Contacts to from the Universal
Connector to the Mother PC board
are soldered properly.

This requires taking the radio apart....Also, the Antenna Pin
is a weak spot, and frequently needs attention.

Now for the worse case....Sometimes the ( Universal Contacts )
Break in the Center....

If you see any Major Cracks in the Universal base, you might
have 1 or more broken contacts. Very tough to fix.

So , while [ READING ] the Radio, apply a small amount of pressure
to the Progam shell ( Either foward or back ) and that may alow
enough physical / electrical contact to take place.

This is JUST A QUICK check...If you chose to try and program
the radio while doing this , its at your own risk !

Replacing just ( 1 ) of those pins is pretty tough...Might as well
replace all of them....

Another problem is the [ Ground ] which lives under the multi-freq
switch....if you are carfull, sometimes with the proper tools, that
ground can be resoldered.

So if your Program platform works on all the other radios, and not
that one, take a look at the above.

DO NOT use sandpaper, Files, or super abrasives on the Universal
Connector, if you do, you will find it a tough job to replace them.

They really are nice radios once cleaned up, and restored.

Monty

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:14 pm**

Thank you for the tips, Monty..

I am using a 486DX laptop - could the speed of my computer be too fast for this flavour of radio? (never really had the honor to program one of these before.. first time..) Could that be an issue? The contacts are nice and shiny, there are no cracks and the speaker mic works just fine.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:20 pm**

One of the things I discovered when I was having similar problems programming an HT600 is that the RSS seems to handle serial port (hardware) handshaking differently than RSS for other radios... After going nuts trying to find the problem, I discovered the problem was my RIB <-> PC cable.

The serial cable I first tried would program other Motorola radios like Maxtracs and Sabers but for the life of me I could not get it to program an HT600. (And I tried multiple HT600s....) I think I tried another serial cable after a few weeks of trying to get the first one to work and low and behold it worked! (Boy I felt stupid for wasting all that time...) I should have compared the two to see what was was wrong with the first one but I just threw it in the trash and moved on. (For the record, I use a "Sandy Ganz" RIB-clone.)

Moral of the story: Just because your setup programs all the other types of radio you own, it doens't mean there isn't a problem with it...

--z

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:59 pm**

WOW! i am having the same problem with the ht600/gentz rib.

yes do search the past posts.

engineerz, could you post what was different in the serial cable that did work.

were some of the wires crossed or was the first cable a 3 wire and the other a complete 9 wire?

you are the first to post a rib to pc cable soulution - could you ohm out your cable and let us know how it is configured (wired) from one end to the other??

Bill

EngineerZ wrote:One of the things I discovered when I was having similar problems programming an HT600 is that the RSS seems to handle serial port (hardware) handshaking differently than RSS for other radios... After going nuts trying to find the problem, I discovered the problem was my RIB <-> PC cable.

The serial cable I first tried would program other Motorola radios like Maxtracs and Sabers but for the life of me I could not get it to program an HT600. (And I tried multiple HT600s....) I think I tried another serial cable after a few weeks of trying to get the first one to work and low and behold it worked! (Boy I felt stupid for wasting all that time...) I should have compared the two to see what was was wrong with the first one but I just threw it in the trash and moved on. (For the record, I use a "Sandy Ganz" RIB-clone.)

Moral of the story: Just because your setup programs all the other types of radio you own, it doens't mean there isn't a problem with it...

--z

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:22 pm**

Make sure you are using RSS for the HT600 that is rated for the Pentium! It works much better than the original versions.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:03 pm**

Try dropping it.

I hear that's a popular repair technique for Uniden scanners, so...

Mike

Posted: **Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:04 am**

Hi:

The reason I did not go into detail, is that most
of these areas have already been covered and
debated.

1. Since I am deep into Motorola products, I can only
support Facory Motorola Rib Boxes. Some Clones
are OK, but seems everyone these days has a
design of their own. With all the problems I face
each week with varying types of Computer OS's
and Clone Ribs, sloopy made cables, well I hate
going over the same material again and again.

BUT, if your Program Platform ( even with a Clone )
worked A-OK on the other radios, it should work
just fine for the target radio you are addressing.

With respects to your Rib to Computer Cable...YES
that too can be a problem if poorly made, or comes
from China

486-XX Series Computers [ Should work just fine ]
with the exception of RSS Ver 1.00.00 ( Horribly Written )

You should try and at least be using RSS Ver 2.00.02, or
even better Ver 2.03.01

So long as you are operating DOS 6.22 ( AND NOT ) under
{ Any } Windows Applications, it should be just fine.

Please keep in mind, the RSS ( with the exception ) of the
later versions were designed in a time period when Win95b & up
did not exsist. Hence with the many varyations of Computers, the
way they were designed, and the many Clone Ribs and Cables
being made, that {could be} a problem.

BUT, I really suspect a Radio related problem.

I have even seen a case where the [ Volume ] Control
was at fault.......and if you should ever see erratic Output
Power, that too will be a componet well worth replacing
in the even you must make a major repair.

ALL HT600's / P200's that come into out facility , the VC
always gets replaced as sort of preventive maintance. Especially
if its a Out Of state Repair / Service request.

Again, once these series of radios have been properly
set up, they will be a good work horse radio.....If some
don't like the size, get a medium duty battery

Monty

Posted: **Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:27 am**

Hiya Monty et al..

Took the radio apart and checked everything that you told me to (and other tips in some searches on Batlabs). The universal connector pins checked out good connection-wise, as well as all grounds. I worked an eraser down to the nub on the top - the contacts on the connector could losslessly divert a high power laser they are so pristine. All the connections check out in the radio, so it doesn't seem like anything physical.

We're using version 2.01.00, operating with a RIB from eds2wayprogramming.com, fresh battery, excellent programming cable with no faults and, as stated, a setup that has programmed countless radios with no issues. This is the first time we've tried to program an HT600 with any sort of problem, and we can't justify the expense of buying a newer version of software we hardly use. Our customers don't normally use HT600's. Great radios, and I always assumed they were a breeze to program. ARGH!

I'll try changing the RIB-->Computer cable (currently a 25-9 pin serial port adaptor cable) and see if that helps. We're at loggerheads here!

Jim

Posted: **Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:18 am**

Monty wrote: 1. Since I am deep into Motorola products, I can only
support Facory Motorola Rib Boxes. Some Clones
are OK, but seems everyone these days has a
design of their own. With all the problems I face
each week with varying types of Computer OS's
and Clone Ribs, sloopy made cables, well I hate
going over the same material again and again.

Monty,

I know your position on RIB boxes and for the most part agree with you.
To most folks on this board I would recommend the same thing - stick with the real thing. I only use the Sandy Ganz RIB ( http://www.geocities.com/sganz.geo/RibPage.html ) because I am a ham and I enjoyed building the kit. At the time I built it I could not justify the cost of even a used /\/\ RIB for occasional ham use. The only difference between Sandy's design and the original is that he added the RJ-45 jack for the radios that could use it. I know even Motorola has updated the original, but it will be awhile before I get one of those fancy-schmancy radios that rely on the updates.

Having said that I would tell others this- if you are considering building your own RIB, heed the following warnings:

1) Stick with the Sandy Ganz PCB. Sandy did a great job on the artwork (esp. version 2) and it's the closest you'll get to the original RIB.

2) Use the sheet Sandy sends with the board to order the parts from Mouser. He provides all of the catalog numbers to get the high quality parts needed to make this thing work properly... Don't use parts out of your junk box. The original part sheet has the number for the "captive" 9V battery connector/holder necessary to avoid the dangling battery that Monty warns us about. Also spend the extra few bucks to get the AC adaptor- don't rely soley on the 9V battery.

3) Build the RIB yourself and only do so if you have impeccable soldering skills. I've been soldering since I was 10 years old, so this was not a problem for me. But if you are new to electronics this is probably not the project to get your feet wet with. Also, don't buy this board preconstructed by anyone else unless you know him and you are 100% confident of his soldering skills.

Monty wrote:
BUT, if your Program Platform ( even with a Clone )
worked A-OK on the other radios, it should work
just fine for the target radio you are addressing.

With respects to your Rib to Computer Cable...YES
that too can be a problem if poorly made, or comes
from China

I would only say this is true for similar radios, i.e. if you program one HT600, you should be able to program another HT600. However, the molded serial cable of unknow origin I was using worked for my other radios- it just didn't work for the HT600. The HT600 worked worked when I switched to a 9-to-12-pin cable made by HP... Unfortunately, this was a while ago and I don't think I can find the bad cable to figure out what was wrong with it.

Monty wrote: 486-XX Series Computers [ Should work just fine ]
with the exception of RSS Ver 1.00.00 ( Horribly Written )

You should try and at least be using RSS Ver 2.00.02, or
even better Ver 2.03.01

So long as you are operating DOS 6.22 ( AND NOT ) under
{ Any } Windows Applications, it should be just fine.

I'm using an NEC Ultralite 286F with DOS 3.something. It's perfect given the vintage radios I own... It's like my bench hasn't left the early '90s!

--z

Posted: **Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:01 am**

HI:

With respects to the HT600 Delima, if you have
covered all the aspects of the areas mentioned,
I would them definately go take a look at the Rib Box
and Computer issues.

With all due respects to the Clones, Kits, and Subsitute
Style Rib boxes, I have a few tips for those who wish to
address their own attempts at making or Repairing
them.

Since I have repaired over 100 of these types of
subsitutes, I feel qualified in offering the following:

Here are some real important issues that one should
consider:

1. The tolerances of the Resistors, and I mean just DO NOT
take it for granted that all 4.7 K Ohm 5 % Resistors are 4.7K
Ohm 5 % and within the Rated Tolerance !! Same applies
to the other resistors as well !

I have seen some of the ones made in China and Japan, and
ones supplied by Radio Shack plus or minus 20-30% of the rated
value ( Even being marked 5% ) Hence if one comes along, and does not bother to [ TEST ] Each Resistor, you will have a problem with biasing the transistors.

Just because it may say 5%, does not mean it trully is 5%

Surplus Resistors can maytimes be rejects from the Factory

2. Another MAJOR point is the [ Gain ] of the Transistors chosen !
I have seen many cases [ Even Brand New ones ] where the hfe
is 1/2 of what is called for, so one might have a hfe of 250, and
its opposite may have a hfe of 70-80

There are a number of suitable transistor checkers out there
today that are cheap enough to give you the insurance of a
good match between a 80Volt PNP and 80Volt NPN compliment.

Mass built Clones that I have seen pay absolutely NO ATTENTION
as to the hfe of the Transistors [ NPN - PNP ] and should be closely
paired as needed.

So, it may work for one radio and not another ( Sound Familure? )

Hence, here again is a Problem as Many perosns may use a wide
vartiy of surplus / or unvarifed quality transistors, when either
building or buying a clone.
==========================================
This is a issue with the builder and the componets selected.
==========================================

3. Same thing applies to the 78L05, Most of the ones made
by Motorola are ideal, Subsitutes made in China are just as bad
as the batteries that come from China. Applies to the Other 2
IC's as well !!

4. Even the Switch used in the Motorola Rib has some VERY
Special Features and Specs that alow for Perfomance and suitability
for long term use in the Mototola version which is made by C & K
Motorola did call for a Gold-Plated contact, where many of the clones have Cheap China Slide Switches with Silver Plated contacts.

If these contacts ever become intermittent ( or noisy ) well
its obvious what can happen.

5. Also Most all Clones [ Skip ] the needed Componets for
the Syntor X9000 Series Radio, so if you try and program
a X9000, somes Clones just will not work .

So, in support of the Motorola Factory Rib Boxes, one can ( and
should have ) the Assurance that all the Transistors used are
very well matched ( Gain wise ) , ( and Pre-tested ) Piror to assembly, along with most / all of the Resistors are within proper tolerance, and some are pretty closely regulated as the 2K & 3 K values need to be very tight.
==========================================

I have NO problems with persons [ Building their own] Just
so long as they are aware of the Tolerances that are needed
to make a Sucessfull Subsitute Work.

==========================================

I have seen many Hams go out, buy a grab bag full of resistors,
Transistors and other related parts thinking, well I have enough
parts from 20.00 ~ 30.00 in Surplus parts, breadboard a Rib Box
( Without paying attention to any of the above ) and toast their
MTS2000 or other High-Tier Radio.

I do know from my reviews, the Mototola Rib box goes
though a number of Quality Control Steps, and Tests piror
to being shipped.

I also feel that mfg's who make suitable subsitutes for a Motorola
Rib should do the same, but I sure do see alot of Problems especially with the Polaris Series.

As I have mentioned many times, Professional Perosns [ Have very
little if any trouble ] working with them, but if one has to many
areas that are poor, it can kill these High-Tier Radios.

The Computer, well, I would not risk a 3000.00 radio on a
20.00 ~ 30.00 Computer unless I was absolutley positive
it too was working properly

But again in all fairness to the Clone Style Rib Boxes, they
are only as good as the perosn(s) building them, or the manufacture who makes them. If all the above is taken
into consideration, well, they will work just fine. ( I hope )

Monty

Posted: **Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:32 am**

I've used a few kinds of RIB's

I've got my home-brew one, used several clones, and the real thing.

I must say, I've never experienced ANY problems with the original.

A few of the problems I've had with clones (aside from them not working on certain radios):
1) The battery wires breaking off the PCB
2) The DB-25 failing due to cold-solder joints
3) RIB to PC cable being hard-wired, causing strain and stress on the wires

That's just 3 problems that, should any of them happen while writing a radio, would make it toast.

Granted, I've never toasted any of the numerous radios I've programmed, I will admit, the risk is always there with the clones or home-brew versions.

If I were doing this professionally, I wouldn't touch anything except the original Motorola RIB, and my computer would be exactly to spec. Since I'm a hobbyist, and just do this "for fun", I',m not concerned about it too much. Sure, frying a radio would suck the big one, but, my biggest investment so far is 100US, so, that's not too bad, considering what all I have.

Mike

Posted: **Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:32 am**

Thanks to someone who e-mailed me off-list, I've solved the problem.

I brought my entire set-up to a technician friend of mine who is using the HT600A (as opposed to the regular HT600 software I'm using). It worked like a charm.

Thanks to all who helped!

Batboard

VHF HT600 won't read

VHF HT600 won't read

Check your serial cable

Re: Check your serial cable

FIXED IT!