Batboard

Hi,

I thought I'd see what some motorola users think of the newer Vertex radios. I'd especially like to hear what people, who are using or tried, think about the VX-900. Our fire department is looking at them as an alternative to getting Motorola HT1250's. We currently have HT1000's, a few MT1000's, GP300's, and 3 or 4 Kenwood models.
We use our radios for both recieving the page call, and for fire calls, which includes wildland firefighting. The ability to field program the VX-900 is one of the reasons we are looking at it.

Thanks for any input.

Tom

Tom,
A few folks here have voiced their approval of the HT-1250 but the general consesus (by a wide margin) has been to stay away from the new Waris series (HT-750/1250/1550). I evaluated a 1250 for public safety use and didn't feel it was more of the more rugged models, also has been a problem prone series. Don't have any specifics on the Vertex unit but it appears as Motorola's quality has been on the decline
Vertex (yaesu), Kenwood, Icom have been on the incline. I think Motorola's heyday is
over in conventional radio and the competition has stepped up to the plate. The Motorola
models you had mentioned are better examples of what they produced.
Jim

I've been using a VHF 900 for about six months and I find it to be loud, tough, and easy to program. The speaker/mic is particularly rugged, and is just about as much trouble (or not, as you prefer) to put on the radio as is a Saber's spkr/mic.

The only thing negative I have to offer is that the unit which does NOT have the tone pad also is lacking four of the programmable switches, and this limits to some extent how you can set up the various programmable functions. I would get the one with the tone pad if I were going to buy another 900. There is no way that I'll ever need to have 512 channels programmed but that's the capacity of the 900.

Last comment relates to software. They have it in both DOS and Windows versions. Both work very well and on the screen you get to see up to about 14 channels in a zone, all at the same time, and you don't get this kind of view on the Saber RSS unless you switch over to a full-screen view, then you have to switch back to the single-channel view to make changes. The Vertex RSS lets you see at a glance that, for instance, all channels in the zone are low power, or that some are high and some are low, what channels are PL transmit, tone PL, DCS, etc. etc. It's really an easy setup to learn and very intuitive. The program dumped one time on me while downloading to the radio, but I just shut the radio off and started over and it reloaded without a problem.

I should also mention that the VHF unit transmits and receives fine all the way down to 144 mHz.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

Tom...it goes down to 144 without any mods/hacks? Which version do you have? The (A) 134-160 or (C) 148-174? I've always liked that radio, I may have to look at it again. How's Yaesu's RSS pricing?

I've seen the programming software for $20 from dealers. The cable and connector to program with are about $140 for the set.

Randy

My local dealer told me about the non keypad version not having the extra soft keys. I was at first thinking the keypad was necessary for field programming, but it apparently programs in a similar way to a kenwood.

So far the comments seem pretty positive here which helps. I too have noticed that the new ht1250 and ht750 (the two I have actually seen) don't seem to be of the same quality as the ht1000 is. Our ambulance service has a few ht750's and I was surprised to see that the batteries on some actually broke apart where they had hit the ground when dropped. (not that they should be dropped.... but you know how it goes) I used to be really impressed with the way Motorola plastic held up to abuse.

The comments on the software is very helpful too, I've used yaesu software wich seemed to be very similiar to what you describe, easy to use, good interface.

Anyone have any info on the 2-tone pagine with the Vertex? Our HT1000's are set up for dual call, but are limited to the two different pages due to the way the radios program.

Tom

The VX900 are realy doing realy well in Public Safety applications and are very tuff. Among the techs that I work with thruout the area, and the BatTeam West, they like the VX900's performance and durability, and MANY hands down over the Warez, HT750, 1250, 1550 ect. Vertex has come a long way.

now I just got to figure too now, buy a saber radio or a VX now, hard choice

Hi

Well the Vertex is a really good radio and the local fire dept. here uses the vx-800. With that said and getting back to Motorola. The department I work for has alittle over 200 HT-750 and 30 HT-1250. The guys out in the field are issued HT-750 and management is issued the HT-1250. My two cents is the HT-750 is rugged, tough and easy to use. I for one do not like a radio that is field programmable. Because someone will mess there radio up trying to put a freq. in it and plus we program all our radios a like ie same channels and freq's. It is ture that the new Ht series had some problems went they first came out from Motorola. I think most of those have been corrected.

What we usually do is ask a local dealer to loan us a few radio and see if they meet our requirement. Most shop are more than happy to do this. A few have you place a small deposit down and let you use one for a week and program it to your channels.

Good luck

Adam

Hey, Dale, how are you doing?

I have seen the VX900, and it looks good. Contact Vertex and they will loan you a radio to try. Or contact Neptune Electronics.

Someone mentioned above that the VX-900 is field programmable, and now that statement has crept into the view of the radio by another person.

This is not correct. You can, by jumpers applied to several of the spkr/mic pins, do a limited amount of program changing without a computer and without using the RSS, but it's not done from the keypad and it's not something any idiot can do in the field, so don't be misled. This is not really field programming, at least not the way I look at the subject.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

Hi Tom,

Yes the dealer here told me that it wasn't as "simple" as a bendix king, and that it was very similiar to the ways some Kenwoods progrmam. The field programming isn't something that will get used much, but is a requirement when traveling around the state (and out of state possibly) to project fires. The forest service and our state mobilization plan require a field programmable radio.

Thanks to all for the input here. We decided to get 2 radios to try out, so I should know first hand in a few weeks how they pan out.

Tom

I have issued all of the FF's HT 750s and 1250's. This occurred over 1 year ago with no problems. One FF dropped it 50' off of the ladder onto CONCRETE! Other than a nicked housing, the radio has never stopped working.
Other depts in my area are using them as well. These ARE rugged enough for public safety.
Ett1033

Hey April

I am doing very good, Thanks for the tip, I used it before, just cant decide to much, and oh yeahh say hi to Jim for me, havent talked to him for a over a month now on the radio hehehehe. just let him know the number 430 he will know hehehe

Okay, okay, what is the real story here? Can a VX800 or VX900 be programmed without a computer. I mean can the VX800 and 900's have frequencies changed without the use of RSS and cables and all of that? The reason I ask is that our police department is considering the VX series and this feature would be useful to the narcotic cops who tune into the wires while they are in use. We work with several different agencies, including federal agencies, and you never know who is bringing what kind of wire, and on what specific frequency, to the party. If we can program the radio in the field, without a computer, this could be a huge help. It gets a little tricky when one guy is trying to give the play by play by relaying over his radio to the rest of the crew.

If we go with the Vertex radios, I think we are going to go with the Midian plug-in incryption modules. They seem to be the easiest to use and they don't cost a fortune either! (Unlike /\/\ and their DVP modules and radios)

Any thoughts?

Here is a link to some information on field programming the VX-900.

http://radio.the161.net/viewtopic.php?t=108

Our department have some on order but I haven't had one in my hands yet. Should have them soon though to give them a good workout. My HT1000 is developing a VERY sensitve PTT button lately so a new radio would be nice.

Tip:
Don't drop your HT1000 on the station floor during a call and proceed to drive a 50,000 pound truck over it on the way out!

A new case, reattach the antenna connection inside, and a new battery, and it was almost as good as new except for the side buttons never being like what they used to be (especially lately). Great radio, it's just seen better days.

Tom

My Minitor 2 didn't fare so well against a Mack CF pumper. Saved the permacode filters at least. Too bad it wasn't my Minitor 3 that took the crunch. Wish I had my 2 back.

Only wish I had a agency of any sort, and get that deal from Vertex, get 2 free VERTEX VX-900, if your agency uses at least 50 2 way radios.

craig wrote: If we go with the Vertex radios, I think we are going to go with the Midian plug-in incryption modules. They seem to be the easiest to use and they don't cost a fortune either! (Unlike /\/\ and their DVP modules and radios)

Any thoughts?

The analog encryption boards from Midian, while fairly complex rolling code, cannot hold a candle to the digital encryption offered by Motorola with DVP, DES, etc. Not that it matters too much, the Midian stuff will keep 99% of people from listening to you.

Todd

From all the input I have gathered from various people who have had/have both Motorola and Vertex products, I stand behind the Vertex. I am sold on the durability of the radio as well as the ease of use. I have a XTS 3500, and I have to say that the XTS cannot stand abouse like a Vertex would. I keep the XTS as a desk radio, not really as a feild radio.
For that job, it would go to a VX800 or a VX900. They are built better and if the radio did break outside of Vertex's 3 Year replacement warantee, It would cost me a whole lot less to repair/replace than a Motorola of compairable function.

Justin

Thanks for the info guys. I don't know how I missed the previous link about the field programming, but I have it now.

I hate to get on my soapbox again, but after the six month boondoggle and delay in response and correction to what I felt was a very serious problem with our brand new 1550 portables, our Fire dept bought Vertex, the VX-180's to be precise. Most of the members now prefer the Vertex. If I have my way there will never be another Motorla product in our Department.

The only thing I can say against Vertex/Yaesu is that there have been historical problems with their SMA connectors.

I'm not sure if they have designed the SMA antenna connectors better on the public safety marketed radios, but I sure hope they did.

Other then that, Vertex/Yaesu units look like real winners.

I can't wait to get my hands on one, when they make the used market... but I think this might be a while if Vertex made them right.

I posted my review of the VX-900 over at The Radio Information Board.

http://radio.the161.net/viewtopic.php?t=350

I've been using the VX-900 about a week and really like it. It's smaller than the HT1000 and bigger than the HT1250. If I only needed 16 channels, I would stay with the HT1000, but the 20 groups and 500 channels makes for lots of options.

The link above will give you a lot more info.

Tom

Tom:

Nice job; you've obviously done your homework on the radio.

I would add one comment, and it's one I've made in several other venues. If you buy a VX-900 it would pay, in my opinion, to get the keypad radio, if only for the four additional programmable keys the keypad radio gives you. I find on my VHF and UHF 900's that I have to make some difficult choices due to having a non-keypad radio. It's not the end of the world or anything like that, but it would still be nice to not have to face some of the compromises and leave some functions unset due to having too few softkeys.

The Forest Service Radio sounds interesting. I'll ask my Vertex contact what he knows about it.

Regards,

Tom Donohoe, W2NJS
Washington DC

Go with a Saber III. Rugged, channel and feature capacity, etc. Hell with field programming. What if you're in a rush and totally mess up the programming?

Well....

There is NEVER a rush when another frequency needs to be added. If the frequency was so critical to cause a rush, it would already be in the radio.

Most, if not all, of the time we will have the frequencies needed. But there are times when a new frequency is put into use by the powers that be.

The field programming is only relevant to wildland firefighting, or any large out of the area "hurry up and wait" incidents anything else and it is already in the radio. Typically each division on a large fire will have a unique set of frequencies to use, and a unique order to the frequencies. So if you are working in division A you have specific frequencies for specific tasks which don't interfere with division B, C, D, E and so forth. So to be able to set your channel configuration to the same as the command team is very important. Otherwise there channel 4 is your...... oh wait, gotta look at the cheat sheet...... zone3 ch 14 for example. Flexibility is a must and dragging a laptop and rib around isn't an option. These are not incidents that last a few hours. They last many hours, days, and even a month or more.

No rush, no problems.

Tom