Batboard

i need any help from those who have expierence with dealing with city government and communications approval.

i work for a city that has a nice 200 ft tower that is used for some mid 150 remote base setup (one ant at very top )and some newly installed 900 networking system for the police and fire. ( small vertical half way up and a mini dish near it.)


i would like to ask the city for thier approval to install a uhf vertical ant and a small UHF GR300 repeater at that site.

figure i should keep the uhf ant away form those antennas, obviously.
(any idea how much i should say i would keep it away from the citys antennas?) power would be set low, mabe 10 watts.

MY SITUATION IS THIS....
i have to present my self and my case to city hall, i want to provide them with information letting them know that it will benifit the community having it up there, for emergency communications and general traveler aid, but i dont really know what else i could tell them that would really get them thinking that it is a good idea.

if you know some really positive things that, from your expierence, government agencys tend to lean tward aproval of such things, PLEASE post it here. i will be preparing a letter and a second paper with technical specs of the repeater and antenna.
i think i might want to include answers to objections they may come up with.

please let me know any good info....

1. Are you a member of ARRL?
2. Are you an active member of your state ARES group?
3. Are you a member of an amateur club?
4. Do you participate in public service amateur activities?
5. Are you working with other hams who are involved in PS work?

If the answers to these questions are mostly "no" then you're going to have a difficult time selling your city officials on the merits of letting you use their tower for a repeater.

Even with everything working for you it can still be a rough road. In Virginia we had a county councilman who, for absolutely no reason anyone could fathom, was dead set against letting us use the county's tower. Fortunately this bird got himself unelected and then - - magic! - - we got the okay to proceed as soon as the door hit him in the butt as he departed.

So, without the right politics you're nowhere, and sometimes even with the best politics you're still screwed.

Good luck.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

One that worked for a group I was part of: Find out if your city has any sanctioned employee clubs. Find out what person coordinates the clubs- employee activities director or the like. Approach them about starting an amateur radio club, sign up some
other city employees then with the help of the activities director if possible request your
antenna/repeater space thru the folks responsible for the tower.

I would make an appointment with the city manager and take an ht with you to demonstrate how ham radio works. Also bring along any ARRL literature you have on hand , especially stuff dealing with Skywarn and Aries stuff.

Best of luck,
Frank

I see you said the city had 900 mhz on the tower.

Well maybe this option will help you then again maybe not.(Depends on whether its ham or another band ect.)

Offer the repeaters use to the city in case of emergency needs that may arise for the city in the future since its up and running on thier tower as another communications backup system available to them if thiers should fail.

Would the addition of a nieghborhood watch be in the possibilities for citizens to help keep an open eye and comunicate back to the p.d.?

Make sure you emphasise watch not an arrest the bandit type of team =BUT ONLY A WATCH TEAM THAT COMUNICATES ITS INFO TO THE P.D.

Who knows that one could work for or against you depending on the opinion of council members.

Also if a community repeater exists to help others =then this also helps reduce citizens from erecting thier own towers which most cities dont want the extra towers and yours would reduce the towers since they could maybe get on your repeater instead.

I know some of these ideas above may not fit your needs but maybe some will.

GOOD LUCK

EKLB

A couple of suggestions:

First, in my neck of the woods, ham repeaters, particularly on 2m, are notorious for causing interference (even when not co-located). There is a site not too far from here that puts out horrendous sidelobes. Since the people you deal with may be aware of this reputation, be prepared with a technical demonstration that any equipment you might install and operate will meet all of the Part 90 technical specifications -- even though they are not directly applicable to ham stations.

Second, expect a good deal of resistence from the techs who maintain the public safety systems, and who at a minimum will expect to see a reasonably detailed design of the proposed installation and an intermod study. The latter can be expensive.

Third, think about and have answers for such practical questions as: will your installation be tied into the standby power systems, and if so, what is their load? what do you expect in terms of access to your systems, in facilities that are otherwise considered secure? what practical and affordable provisions make sense for insuring that the site building can be divided so that no unauthorized person can get access to the public safety equipment?

Fourth, consult someone familiar with the laws governing municipal procurement in your jurisdiction; it may well be that the municipal government cannot grant access without posting that potential, or without exposing themselves to "non-discrimination" provisions that would expose the site to exploitation by cellular providers, SMRSs, Nextel and the like -- all of which would be anathema to the techs who maintain the public safety site. I know for a fact that sometimes even when the locals would like to do something, the governing statutes limit their freedom or power to do so. If you have educated yourself on any such impediments, you may be able to come up with solutions to them that undermine potential objections.

What you're planning on doing is not easy. Be prepared to invest an awful lot of time and effort.

Well let me put a little more water on your fire. Besides the physical liability issue, you will have to provide an engineering study to determine the amount of RF exposure and a plan of how you would designate the area. Make sure that you have a "coordination letter" from your regional repeater coordinator, detailing the site, lat & lon power, etc. Such an excersise unfortunally has turned into a political issue. Someone suggested demonstrating an HT, don't, city officials are used to seeing a radio in operation and would feel offended. Monty has good advice.

Finally be prepared to have to pay a professional tower crew with prior approval from the city to hang your antenna and line. This will probably cost at lest a $1000. Tower crews don't like water towers, they prefer regular radio towers! Finally who will pay the light bill? The city may require a separate electric meter. These are just real life suggestions from 30 plus years of real life site experience.

Finally, I could relate my tale of installing an HF-SSB antenna between two building in downtown Luanda, Angola about 20 years ago! Or a time in South America that the rebels cut the guy line on our relay site in the Andes.

Good luck
RadioConsult

Really good points above. A couple of other things to consider which were somewhat addressed above. There is a limit to the amount of RF saturation in your area, i.e. its a percentage based on area. This need to be measured for any repeater. Recently here in New Mexico, a HAM repeater station was monitored by the FCC. The amount of saturation was 300% above the limit. Total fines came out to $28,000. This is the first time that the FCC has fined a HAM repeater station operation.

Also, depending what is at the current site, filtering is always a consideration. Don't want their RF messing with yours.

If you were operating a HAM station, then you could talk to the local HAMs or ask the ARRL for assistance. If you wanted to operate on GMRS or such, then you would be better contacting REACT or some group of the likes and putting up for search and rescue, etc.

You are basically limited to what you can put a repeater on and definetely have to be licensed. Like Monty said, your better off putting on a tall building or residence.

I was always reminded by my old boss, "Don't Draw attention to you or us". Stick it up quietly, and I'm not paying you to do it. Your rptr, your
A!@#$%
I once had a VHF scanner with a filter at the antenna port and connected to one of the unused antennas on our tower. I had the scanner audio and COR remoted to a very lo-power UHF TX with PL. My old boss and I would walk around the entire station house listening to very distant stations on our UHF portables. God, I miss those days. Took money over the attraction of a 100foot tower.
Jimmy