New Federal UHF band?

[RESCUE161]

Does anyone have any info on these radios? What types are available, etc.
The band I'm refering to is the 380-400 MHz band. We are suppose to be switching over to this band within the next year or so.
Scott

[wb0qqk]

I did a quick browsing using Google and couldn't find anything related to a proposed U.S. allocation. It appears that 380-400 and 410-430 systems are planned for the UK, Europe and South African public safety entities. Motorola's handheld for those bands is called a MTH500 Tetra.

http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/emea/tetr ... h500_2.pdf

[RESCUE161]

I talked to the project manager that told me that federal VHF and UHF as we know it are going away. He said everyone will be required to be on the 380-400 band within the next few years. It'll be narrow band and every base (Army) will have available the use of a trunking system of some sort. He couldn't say what type as the contract for providing these services are still up in the air. I was trying to look into prices of such radios before we are forced to buy them... Thanks for the response,
Scott

[RADIOMAN2002]

I have been hearing about this new channelization for about 5 years, I said the same thing, what 380-400 mhz radios? My Military Police unit was supposed to move to it 5 years ago, but I think Motorola was the only vendor, and the price they were quoted was about $4,500.00 per radio. I have since left , and don't know any more about other than NYS ( my MP unit is in NYS)is going to 700mhz.

[oh2lak]

Just for a notice;

The TETRA (Terrestial Trunked Radio), mainly used and installed in Europe and Asia, uses 380-400MHz band for authorities, and 410-430MHz band for commercial traffic.

It's a equivalent of the APCO-25 system as far as I know, and there are several manufacturers for networks and terminals, e.g. Nokia, Simoco (Sepura), Motorola (Dimetra radios).

TETRA is full digital system, based on cell structured infrastructure, and digital "simplex" channels called DMO (Direct Mode Operations)

The new federal system could be TETRA, who knows.

Erik

[Bob]

...and don't know any more about other than NYS ( my MP unit is in NYS)is going to 700mhz.

They want to. Last I heard though, they were having a hell of a time with Canada. I honestly don't see anything like that happening here soon. I have a copy of the RFP at home. They want to do some pretty cool things with it, but with the infrastructure involved, it's a LONG way out.

In keeping on topic though... I've heard similar thngs about moving federal comms to 380-400. If the rumor is this widespread, there has to be some substance to it. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[wa2zdy]

yes, I've seen reference to this one too. I believe the discussion was about unit commo in Marine platoons. Icom having a hand in it sounds familiar to me too, but I can't provide more details. It wasn't something I paid a lot of mind to at the time.

Good luck,

[jcobb]

They just put up a new Federal UHF trunking system around here - and it's on the same 403-430 gov't band.

The only thing I have heard about 380-400 is the "Inter Squad Radio" -ISRs - made by ICOM.

I have heard nothing indicating a blanket move from 403-430; however, I have heard that any base/entity considering UHF MUST include planning for a trunking system - either putting up their own or joining with other Feds to load one up - and consolidation seems to be the watch word these days.

But that's all I have heard.


Jack

[ScannerDan]

Hi all,

I really don't think that the FED's are going to move to the UHF 380-400 Mhz anytime soon. The federal agency that I work for just spent approx 4 million dollars in the southern CA area upgrading our repeaters from MSF5000 to Quantar's (APCO25 however still analog). The FBI in Los Angeles is also upgrading their system to ASTRO. So I really don't think that this will happen soon.


DAn...

[n9upc]

Well from the field over here the story is that TETRA will not be seen to well in the US as Motorola is trying to keep a lid on it since it is a more cost effect method of trunking as well as I think some type acceptance issues coming about with it if I remember correctly.

There was a native american tribe that put in a TETRA system recently for the casino and tribal communications and the only reason they got to do that was based on the fact that they are a soverign nation.

Back to topic though, EF Johnson has been in the talk about making a portable to cover that area as well as making it complaint with the "APCO25" Motorola (own little world) system. (EFJ's 5100 series portables accys are cross compatable with the XTS series of Motorola. I am an EFJ dealer for there APCO stuff and we have tried it and it works.)

But since the govt. is pushing for the evac of 700 Mhz by TV stations I am sure you will see that getting used or govt. agencies using that instead of UHF. Feds here have been setting up on the new MN metro system with a possible switch to 700 Mhz if they need to as there are some multiband radios coming out soon.

[apco25]

it is my understanding the 380-400 Mhz stuff is essentially mititary FRS type radios also known as the ISC or inter squad communications system.

FEDS, such as the FBI or related agencies are probably going to stay in the high end of VHF 163-174 Mhz region along with UHF low split 403-420. I doubt they'll be moving off those allocations. Most major areas have fed operating on local or state systems as well.

As for the military, which I believe is the real topic here... does all sorts of weird communications things so it is possible they may move, but they have extensive infrastructure on UHF low split in either motorola or EDACS trunking including shipboard systems. Mil is rather protective of its entire UHF spectrum as they are primary across most of the band.

In talking with some radio folks with Civial Air Patrol they have mentioned the military wants to move away from their allocation at 148-150 Mhz with it possibly being returned to land mobile radio. CAP is on this band and would have to move if that' the case. I see mostly small bases and national guard military police still down on this radio band so it would make sense to move them around.,

[ASTROMODAT]

I seriously doubt that we will see any sort of significant 2-Way land mobile Government (or private) entities use of the 380 to 400 MHz band, at least not anytime soon.

Keep in mind that the primary voice frequency band for all USAF, US Navy, Marine, Coast Guard, and US Army military aircraft is 225 to 400 MHz AM. It has been this way since just after WW II, and is expected to stay this way ad infinitum.

Even a very low powered FM or digital transmitter on the ground operating anywhere in this 225 - 400 MHz military aviation band would severely interfere with military aircraft communications, even at distances of tens to hundreds of miles, depending upon the elevation of the involved aircraft.

Downed pilots also use the military aviation 225 - 400 Mhz band for their survival radios via AM voice, as well as various data modes that are involved with these radios. No way would the military allow the use of 380 to 400 Mhz for 2- Way land mobile.

It would take nothing short of a Hurculean effort to change this!

Larry

[Demoh]

I was out at our local Army base the other day and had a long talk with one of the radio tech's. The new radio system is Mfg by Matra, a French company that is also installing the new Federal radio system in Mexico. The radios operate in the 375-402mhz area and are Tetra digital in all three modes, Trunked, convential and simplex.

I was not impressed with the construction of this plastic radio and the knobs and buttons are too small but the audio is quite good. Motorola can only dream about their digital audio sounding this good.

The radios are on 25Kz channels now and when they need more channels the radios are firmware upgradeable to 12.5Kz, 10Kz or 6.25Kz channel spacing.

Very nice system,

Demoh.

[apco25]

TETRA... BARF!

crap technology being pushed on us by europe. Tetra is extremely infrastructure intensive and dependent and I don't think it has any business in being used in this country what so ever.


Military goes from EDACS to tetra... uhg

I suppose they want to be compatible with the UN and Nato. Interpol developed their own version of it called TetraPol.

[apco25]

and another thing, of course its sounds good digital at 25Khz of bandwidth. Let's hear it at 6.25 and see if its still as nice

[Rude Dog]

The only thing keeping the military from already being in the 380 MHz band has been the unavailability of the equipment from Motorola. They already have a Quantar. The first user radio will be in the XTS family and there will be no mobile for quite some time. The 403-433 congestion is worse than any other band. All of the damage control frequencies aboard the ships are the same (DCWIFCOM) and all of the trunking frequencies (WICS) aboard the ships are the same. The few ships that have different frequencies are the carriers with Intellirepeaters that will someday hook to the military Smartzone systems like they have here in Norfolk. When they are in port, it is very difficult to talk back to the correct ship. It is a major thing to change all this equipment out, but since the USS Cole incident, alot of congressional support has swung into what they call "force protection". It is money that is alotted straight from Congress, and the ships wouldn't have gotten the money anyway if they didn't use it for 380.

Ed