Batboard

Anyone have any pictures of Crown Vic Installs...Specifically a crown vic with a split bench seat, also very intersted in pics of how the wiring was done. Need ideas on where to run my wire and topics such as power distribution. Also type of wire used would be nice too.

Thanks For The Help

Might have a look at http://www.garlic.com/~jdebert/ExperimentalConsole.html
for an idea. 1999 Crown Vic LX, split bench.

The console replaces the ashtray without any modifications.

The ashtray harness was used for power to the console, otherwise no changes were made to the stock wiring. The ashtray can be reinstalled with a new harness.

Coax was run from trunk, under back seat and along tunnel and side channels out of sight.

The install is not done. This is the first phase.

DONT USE THE ASHTRAY FOR PRIMARY POWER!

Bad Idea to use the ashtray power for power to your console. Better to use a 10 gauge or larger and run it direct to Battery (+). Very easy to do. Locate the passanger side wire harness going through the firewall. You can pull that gromet towards you (From inside of the car) and run your battery cable that way. Or if so inclined, you can drill through the firewall, but be sure you know what is behind it.

As far as other wiring, there is plenty of room to run wires to the rear of the car. Remove the plastic door molding on the floor and side kick panels. You will see plastic conduit with other wires running through it. Plenty of room to run your wires there. Might have to remove some screws that hold down the conduit.

Use a "Short Stop" style auto reset circuit breaker rated 30A or more underneath the hood (Depends on your application). This goes between the Battery and the Console Power feed line. You might want to run multiple lines depending on what you put in your console (ie: Radios, Siren, arrowstick, Computer Power, ect)

If you have a genuine P71 Police interceptor, there is also a power tap located on the passanger side kick panel. These are recomended only for low current devices, (I wouldn't use for anything over 20A). There are 2 plugs, one red and one blue. One is switched with ignition and one is hot all the time. This is a good point to grab an ignition sense to power any relays that you would use to activate any of your equipment.

I have some pictures of some crown vic console installations, but not any really with wiring descriptions. I dont have a way to host the pictures right now (that would allow everyone to see - Damn Geocities). I could e-mail if interested.

Hope this helps.

Ryan

"Use a "Short Stop" style auto reset circuit breaker rated 30A or more underneath the hood (Depends on your application). This goes between the Battery and the Console Power feed line. You might want to run multiple lines depending on what you put in your console (ie: Radios, Siren, arrowstick, Computer Power, ect) "


If you live where it rains, I wouldn't use the Short-Stop breaker on any vehicle if it's under the hood. These things soak water like a sponge and corrode in no time at all. If you use any breaker, make sure it's a manual-reset or a "modified-reset" style. Automatic reset breakers just give the fire another chance to start 7 seconds after the short. Use a TST/Buss main breaker that's actually waterproof or use a wafer-style fuse with all connections soldered regeardless of what you use.

As for multiple power lines- very hokey. Use a single main service capable of delivering power to everything and leave room (size) for future expansion. At the console, use a distribution block to break up the power to each respective circuit. Keep it simple. Multiple feeds are not simple and give many more areas for a failure to occur- and it's just plain unprofessional. It also takes more work and time to run multiples. Multiple lines are what one would expect from a high school vo-tech center, not someone that knows how to properly wire a vehicle.

jim wrote:As for multiple power lines- very hokey.

Multiple feeds are not simple and give many more areas for a failure to occur- and it's just plain unprofessional. It also takes more work and time to run multiples. Multiple lines are what one would expect from a high school vo-tech center, not someone that
knows how to properly wire a vehicle.

Thanks Jim, I am glad to hear your "professional response" regarding this install. I am in fact a professional Installer, and this is one way a customer requested their 54 cars to be built. I wrote this as this was my most recent install job.

It all depends on what the customer wants, not what is correct. It just so happens that this was a federal contract and their cars have been built this way for many years.

Not trying to start a controversy over which was a better way to install, it's just you came off as quite harsh in your last post.

I'm just trying to help. Thats what we are all here for, to lend support, ask questions and get answers.

Ryan

Outstanding Website! Im serious. You have a great example of some of those installers that just dont care about the outcome of their install. Your work is very professional and looks great. How could the local municipalities allow that other company or person to do such a bad hack job. Talk about the liability should something go wrong. Thats Just Bad!

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Everybody should look at your website, particular this page: http://jmarcoz.homestead.com/files/abou ... mateur.htm OH MY GOD!!!

Take care,

Ryan

I looked at Jim's page. I would love to take pictures of other guys installs too to just show them before and after. It is pretty much the same everywhere you go Hack shops doing hack work. The only way to fix something that bad is to gut it and start over...

One rather weathy commuinty near me used a "Towing" company to do their work.. Til the first fire..After we fixed it they come to us for all installs. Its true you get what you pay for.

Sorry you took me the wrong way! The idea of doing this is just plain %#*^! If somebody said to do it this way, they just have no clue. Their insurance carrier would also drop them if they saw things like this. If a customer came here and wanted that, I'd either talk them out of doing it that way or send them on their way. For the little extra it costs to do things right, it isn't worth the savings. If a vahicle goes down for a day or two per year because of the installation quality, that's acceptaqbe. If a vehicle goes down for a faulty component, that's different. If vehicles keep going down for the same type of equipment failing over and over, it's time to change to another supplier (hmmmm.. Whelen comes to mind here with their "sponge" lightbars that just can't keep water out and non-stop failures of strobe power supplies). Educating the customer is the key. Many departments are so used to seeing shoddy work that they think that this is the way it's SUPPOSED to be. They don't know any better since their radio shop (or whomever) has been hacking their cars for years.

Indeed, primary power should not be the ashtray power cable.

In the installation I mentioned, max current is 3.763Amps, which is fine for the cigarrette lighter power. The wire heating from current is negligible. A 5amp semiconductor fuse is used in the cigarrette lighter power circuit, Just In Case.

As mentioned, the described installation is the first phase. Power requirements were very low. Use of ashtray power is oh so very temporary.


Should have seen how the ProLock was installed in my Cavailer by the dealer: cut & splice, no relay. A real idiot job. The device eventually caught fire when starting the car, installer came around, found the 30amp relay was not installed. All the starter solenoid current was going through a 1amp circuit. There's nothing quite like the smell of burning FR4 and ABS... And after 6 years the car still smelled like well-broiled PC board.

I found this series of photos on the Mongomery County MD Police Website.


http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mc/se ... k0002.html
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mc/se ... ronco.html

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mc/se ... h2/psk.htm

The photos chronicle the installation of their new MDT system in 4 prototype vehicles. Crown Vic, Impala 9C1, Bronco and Caprice 9C1.

Some of the wiring is really bad. But the placement of some of the equipment is downright henious.

1. Caprice-Note the location of the Spectra mobile radio mounted behind the radios speaker and the MDT mount in front of it. You can't even operate the radio controls. Look at the wiring of the power for the saber portable's charger and the radio and MDT power. Scary.

2.Bronco- Note the height of the installed spectra radio compared to the siren controller. See the wires poking out from under the sharp edge of the console

3.Impala- Look at the wiring under the hood of the car running along the cowl. The MDT is right over, within inches of the siren controls.

4. Crown Vic. This has to be some of the worst equipment placement Ive ever seen. The MDT covers both the radio and the siren controls. The PA mike is behind the MDT. Look at the wiring in the car and under the hood.Oh Boy what a mess. I wonder what we can't see?

Some of those "amateur" install photos could have come from patrol cars I have driven over the years. The shops here just stick wire where it will fit, no matter how it looks or is used. Equipment placement is another circus act here too. A lot of us got to the point that we told the shop to do the bare minimum required by the person handling the deal from our end, so that we could put the radios, sirens, switchboxes, etc, in ourselves. That way you could at least use them when you needed them.
Sometimes you had to pull over to figure out how to reach the equipment, because they had no clue what you need to be able to switch on or off, while driving. Sure it works good sitting still in the shop, but what about while driving?
All installers should have to drive the vehicle for a shift, and try to operate the equipment. They would have a totally different perspective.

Nothing against people who do a professional job, but a lot don't.

Paul

rather than running two wires from the battery to a power distribution panel with a master on/off switch between the two. Than running all wires out of the box to the radios......could someone give me some info on relays...a good place for them to be located....what type of relay I need...exactly what is the purpose of using a relay in this type of situation?

Thanks

Some pix of CHP installs including trunk mountings are at http://www.mbay.net/%7Ewb6nvh/CHP2001.htm

Okay.....what's the purpose of the "scanner antenna relay" in the CHP cars? What are they switching?
I love it. Lowband forever! Nothing like 110 watts and an 8' whip. They can probably even hear an ant fart clear in Cleavelend.

Jim,

I think the scanner antenna relay has something to do with them using the low band antenna for the scanners, I believe they used 1 antenna for both radios. It looks like there is one PL259 connector in and 2 out. The scanners were also modified to have a "mute" circuit which would mute all sound from the scanner speaker during transmissions from the patrol car's Micor CHP radio (to prevent background noise and feedback interference)or the scanner.

The 2-way and scanner share one antenna. The antenna relay switches out the scanner before the transmitter comes on. It is operated from the PTT circuit. Much better than the RF activated relay as seen on certain CB/scanner combos.

There have been more changes to the cars, so now they are starting to look like porcupines. If I recall right, four antennae is about minumum for new cars. Eight antennae are found in big metro areas.

jim wrote: They can probably even hear an ant fart clear in Cleavelend.

I don't know about an ant, but certainly Mr. Carey...

Just did a new 2003 CV with an optional fuse/relay panel that fits under the passenger-side dash. It plugs into a vehicle harness and provides 20 fused circuits with pigtails, both hot and ignition controlled. Also has 3 relays that can be configured toyour needs. The nicest part is that it can be dismounted to make your connections, then remounted more or less out of the way. The manual also says that you can get one for the rear but ours didn't have it. This is NOT the slide-out tray version.

jim wrote:Okay.....what's the purpose of the "scanner antenna relay" in the CHP cars? What are they switching?
I love it. Lowband forever! Nothing like 110 watts and an 8' whip. They can probably even hear an ant fart clear in Cleavelend.

THe antenna relay box is used to interface the Master Executive II VHF vehicular repeater and the scanner into one glass mount Antenna Specialists antenna. There is also another glass mount for the Mobile data radio, but I have no idea what band it is...it is a AS antenna also, but I have clue as to a model number.

Bad news for the lowband lovers: Since late '98 they have used Antennex NMO mount loaded 1/4w on the roof for the 110w Rangr lowband radios. However, they are still using the black Antenna Specialists ASP-3 ball/flange assembly to put 6' black fiberglass CB antennas on the fender, even in '03. Why the hell they aren't still using the ball mount for the lowband radio is beyond me!!!!

In memorium, I am putting the CHP ballmount setup on my Impala for lowband.

code3media wrote:Everybody should look at your website, particular this page: http://jmarcoz.homestead.com/files/abou ... mateur.htm OH MY GOD!!!

HOLY S@#T!!!!!!!!!

I'll snap a few pics of my Impala when I'm done....will make that 00 Impala on Jim's page look even worse when compared to a good install. I can't believe those rat's nests that he has pictured!!

code3media wrote: Everybody should look at your website, particular this page: http://jmarcoz.homestead.com/files/abou ... mateur.htm OH MY GOD!!!

Every time I look at those, I wonder if Jim snuck east about 300 miles and saw the guy that does our installs working and took pics.

And the boss won't go anywhere else...to expensive to get it done right the first time.

Oh well...you do the best what you're given, I suppose.

Gordon

I added some pix to the page, including pix of the first new power wire, which has changed already and is going to change even more...

http://www.garlic.com/~jdebert/ExperimentalConsole.html

With either CVC 25259 or 25259.1, you are still illegal as the law reads, unless you are an active part of a RACES (or ARES I guess) group and are given the blessing by your local EM director, etc.

If you decide to put a pushbar on the car, then stay away from the lights completely, unless you put some driving or fog lights on the pushbar (look under CVC 24402 and 24403). If you stay with a clean front end, then get a couple of Federal Signal SML1 heads and toss baseball hats over them on your rear deck.

I personally don't have a problem with your idea, but then again I've yet to go out to CA to live and work (CHP), so my views may change....

I got it wrong: it's cvc25269. The lights are only for 25269 use.

And I just looked at the current code. Something is wrong: those sections are back to what they were two years or so ago. Or else the previous code I read was wrong. Gotta ask Sacto what's going on. ( I would not be surprised if they're playing mindf@rt games with their leginfo database again.)

I don't want the car to have visible reds. It's not a cop car and it's going to stay that way. I'm having too much fun already

What are you refering to in not being able to use amber lights anymore? Both quoted sections have nothing to do with Amber warning lights.

No matter what, you're covered under 25268 CVC.

CVC 25268: No person shall display a flashing amber warning light on a vehicle as permitted by this code except when an unusual traffic hazard exists.

And according to Mr. Webster (http://www.dictionary.com) - which is admissible in court:

Unusual

adj 1: not usual or common or ordinary; "a scene of unusual beauty"; "a man of unusual ability"; "cruel and unusual punishment"; "an unusual meteorite" [ant: usual] 2: being definitely out of the ordinary and unexpected; slightly odd or even a bit weird; "a strange exaltation that was indefinable"; "a strange fantastical mind"; "what a strange sense of humor she has" [syn: strange] [ant: familiar] 3: not commonly encountered; "two-career families are no longer unusual"

Just my .02 Cents.

Ryan
code3media

When I last looked in January, 25268 was not in the code but 25269 was still there. A lot of sections were removed and a lot were changed. It was starting to look like some other states' draconian vehicle codes, where nothing is left to reasonable discretion.

I looked a while ago, after sifting through 30 pages of irrelevance, and many missing sections are back.

I wonder if someone is shagging the database there...

Leginfo is famous for being hard to use and bringing up mostly, if not entirely, irrelevant results, even when gopher does work. Sometimes I suspect it is intended to be that way for the unwashed masses.

Looks like i's time to annoy Sacto again.