Batboard

I know this sounds wierd, but just go with it. I need to know about how much this boatload of stuff is worth. If it is any help, this was owned my Metricom before they went belly up. This has been sitting in storage for a while and no one ever really wanted to bother with it. Now we need some money to help with a radio system and building expansion and this has got to go!

EXTERNAL COMPONENTS

(11) Hirschman E-5960 Antennas. 900Mhz/2.4Ghz Panel type.

(12) MDCN Ethernet Microcells that have four CAT-5 and two antenna connections (1 for 900, 1 for 2.4G)

Marconi outdoor cabinet . It has doors on 3 of the 4 sides. The doors seal and use padlocks. They are held shut by 3 Hex keys on each door. The back has some kind of cooling device attached to the door.

INTERNAL COMPONENTS:

Patch and Punch Down Panels. Several that connect various things together. Don't ask me what they all do, I didn't build it.

Marconi Circut Breaker Panel. Self-Explanitory.

Marconi power converters. 120v to 54v I think.

Marconi Network Interface Unit. I don't know much about this but it has a 3-Ring binder from Marconi that goes into great detail about it.

Cabletron Systems SmartSwitch 2200. This is a 24-port switch. Again, I don't know much about it other than what it is. It is obviously a little more complex than your average CompUSA home network switch.

Cabletron Syetms HSIM-W85. This is for connecting the above switch to up to (8) T-1 lines. Basicly, the WAN connection for the internet.

Western Telematics Rack Mount ITU Modem. I think this was for remote management of the site.

Remote Power Booster. I have no idea what it is for.

Some kind of port manager thing. There is a CD and interface cable as well. I don't know exactly what it's use was.


The only thing not included is the coax between the Micro-Cells (about 3ft each) and the CAT-5 to go up the tower between the Microcells and the cabinet. This is (was) a functioning Wireless Data and internet site and still could be if you connect it all together. It is all just about brand new and hardly ever used.

Edit--- This stuff is NOT on the tower right now. The spot it was on was sold to ATT&T when Metricom went bankrupt. This ricochet site is now just sitting here collecting dust.


http://www.lawrenceweb.net/metricom/patch-bay-close.jpg
http://www.lawrenceweb.net/metricom/network-gear.jpg
http://www.lawrenceweb.net/metricom/power-bay.jpg
http://www.lawrenceweb.net/metricom/antenna-front.jpg

If you find an answer, please share, I know of a simular site in Scottsdale AZ that is available.

I updated it after looking at the manuals and product sheets. I am not the all knowing one on this stuff so I can only say what it is and not what it is capable of. All I know is it used to be a wireless data and internet site, fully operational. I hope to take some pictures this week.

Matt - sahre the pictures - would be interesting to check out. You said it used to be a ricochet site? Are they interested in selling the equipment or what?

Thats why I am posting this. We have no use for this stuff, it is collecting dust in a storage bay. It became ours when the company that owned it and was on our tower (Metricom) went bankrupt. Yes, we want to sell it but I have no idea what to ask for it.

So you own it? Good deal! Id love to have a setup like that - but 4 T1 lines would be a bit costly, eh? hehehe. You can always eBay it - I bet you could do it real well. Depending on who owns it (you or your dept) you/your dept could make some good cash for equipment/training/watever if what Im thinking is correct. Check Tessco for those antenna panels - I think they have some 900/2.4 Ghz split panels and if I remember correctly, they are quite costly.

Hello.

It worked with its own terminals, not WiFi.
The boxes in Austin,Texas and houston,Texas are small units that are mounted on light poles, and there are hundreds of them.
Several people have looked at converting them to WiFi.
So far, it has been cheaper to take the radio out of the box and replace it with an off the shelf access point.
The city of Houston has been taking some heat.
Several public libraries are in city parks, and have WiFi set up so anyone can use it, is is somewhat common for people to fire up the laptop and picnic at the same time.
Industry "leaders" are not happy, however, as hundreds have pointed out, you can go inside the library and use the computers provided.
To answer the question, not much.

Sounds like junk for the museum. One can buy a complete 802.11b WiFi unit that's not much bigger than a couple of packs of cigarettes from Linksys (including the transceiver, w/ integrated router and power amp) for well under $200 (NEW). That gives you encrypted 2.4 Ghz spread spectrum WiFi coverage anywhere in your house, or around your business for up to a quarter of a mile. Technology has displaced your set of junk, but again, maybe you could donate it to the Boy Scouts (or the like) to practice soldering, etc. or to the local marina so boaters that have lost their anchors could use it. Of course, you'd have to pay thousands of dollars to the trucking company that gets stuck haveing to haul it away. You could also use it as a drive up ramp for changing oil on your cars.

OK. Anyone other than the ASStro idiot have some input? Preferably somone who actually knows and not just blabbing out of there rear. Even if the microcells are usless, the rest of the stuff is universal and must be worth something.

Oh yea... No, I don't personally own it. The Fire Department owns it. I am trying to sell it for the dept to help fund our radio upgrade and building expansion.

I added links to some pictures in the first post.

It might be woth 10 cents, on a GOOD day, at a Ham radio auction. Tell the fire dept to keep their daytime jobs, and let the junk dealers and Hams handle this junk.

I restate....

Anyone other than ASStro idiot have some input? Preferably someone who actually knows and not just blabbing out of there rear.

Astro, I do not want to hear your incoherent babble. I want someone who can give me a real answer. You obviously don't know what your talking about and I'd appriciate you not wasting my time replying about this anymore. Nothing you have said is of any relevence or has made any sense. Just quit while your not to far behind.

Astromodat, I'm usually not one to comment when things get like this.

But, LEMME TELL YA SOMETHIN',

You obviously don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on this one, so just keep your mouth shut. I'm actually suprised that Alex hasn't jumped your mouth yet, but I'm sure he will soon once he sees this.

He may even jump mine, but it'll be worth it.

SO, in the mean time, just don't comment. Unless you have personally owned the equipment stated above and have a great knowledge of it, shut up.

Thanks!!!!

Matt

He asked what the stuff was worth, and I gave him my opinion.

I know the truth hurts, but that's life.

Take an anger management course.

Settle down---you only have one heart, and when it fails, all this radio stuff will be very irrelevant.

Take a chill pill, and have a nice, tall cool beer. Run a few miles a day. You'll feel a lot better.

Larry

Oh will you please go away. No one wants to hear you non-sense anymore. Yea, the truth can hurt sometimes but coming from you, that is the least of my worries. Please do not get this topic locked. I am really looking to the experts here for some help and you are obviously not one of them. I don't care what your "opinion" is. It is worthless to me. You are wasting you keystrokes. Just go troll some other thread that isn't relying on people with actual knowlege.

Thanks.

Also I don't want to offend, but generally that technology has
already been surpassed.

I got lots of stuff that was a Gazillion Dollars in 1997 or 1998 on
Ebay for a few hundred bucks shipping, or for free locally. Most of
it New in Box.

Still ain't worth much.



I figured I'd get my two cents in here, since I do Have a clue what
I'm talking about. I own a small local Phone company, and every
week I get a letter with a list Of Companies from the Public Utility
Commission that states how many Registered Public Utilities are
now Out of Business.

Real Common in todays world. Small Telecommunications companies
both Voice and Data gone bust. And the leftover equipment is usually worth it's weight in scrap metal. Sad but true.
Even the Bank doesn't want it.

You could get lucky and pawn it off to someone who doesn't know
any better. i.e. wireless data is too expensive unless your name is
Verizon or Nexhell. Thats why all the individual entities doing it now
are for the most part Not. since It costs too much for the infastructure which will be obsolete in a couple years anyway.
this is a game for the Big boys to hammer out.
No mom and pop wireless internet service provider.
Seen it go bust all the time....

But, having said that already thats WHO I'd try to sell it to.
A local provider in your area just might be interested in the system
as a whole.

Astromodat...

Why not giving a realistic appraisal of the equipment or at least justify our statement a little more than "It's junk"...

One persons junk is another persons treasure. That's how antique dealers stay in business.

If his equipment isn't worth anything say why. Is it extremely obsolete? Is in non-compatible with anything on the market anymore? OR is it a system that became a collection of parts that never worked properly to begin with?

I would be curious to know exactly what kind of application these data-sites could be applied in. Is it just for a mobile data solution for getting your workload for the day.. PD running MDT and running plates? I dunno... but seems as though there are many possibilities. Let's see what it can really do.

I wouldn't mind buying the "junk" if it has a practical purpose that we could use.

1. Excellent points, ricciticcitembo! Yes, I was thinking of just what you mentioned. Telecom companies go under all the time and they have tons of equipment, such as D4 channel banks and the like, which they paid millions of dollars for new and now are virtually worthless, except for salvage scrap that goes for a few dollars per pound. This is a result of rapid technology advancement.

2. Jay, in my original post, I stated my reasoning. One can buy a Linksys system for less than $200 that is WAY more powerful than his antiquated junk. A WiFi tansceiver, with integrated router and power amp, will provide WiFi internet connections, and/or peet to peer high speed data connectivity, for over a quarter of a mile. As to the base stations, the Linksys can do this, too, only much more effectively (license free on 2.4.GHz) for less than $200, NEW. That was my reasoning. Current technology in this area has so outpaced his gear that it is of no value, except for the museum, etc.

I suspect this fellow needs to lose weight and start exercising so he can get his temper under control. He needs to chill and relax, and I suspect lose a ton of weight. He'll be glad he did! Your heart is your life---don't waste it on radio junk!

Larry

ASTROMODAT wrote:2. Jay, in my original post, I stated my reasoning. One can buy a Linksys system for less than $200 that is WAY more powerful than his antiquated junk. A WiFi tansceiver, with integrated router and power amp, will provide WiFi internet connections, and/or peet to peer high speed data connectivity, for over a quarter of a mile. As to the base stations, the Linksys can do this, too, only much more effectively (license free on 2.4.GHz) for less than $200, NEW. That was my reasoning. Current technology in this area has so outpaced his gear that it is of no value, except for the museum, etc.

Still doesn't tell me what it's used for.. or what it was used for. It's nice to know what took it's place but it still doesn't give the whole picture.

ASTROMODAT wrote:I suspect this fellow needs to lose weight and start exercising so he can get his temper under control. He needs to chill and relax, and I suspect lose a ton of weight. He'll be glad he did! Your heart is your life---don't waste it on radio junk!

Larry

Well maybe just an opinion but why make a personal flame like that? You apparently don't know Matt... so how can you make an assumption on his character like that. I thought he was fairly polite is asking you to be reasonable about it. RT put it well... he basically said it's worthless in a well informed way. Said it's worth more as scrap and explained why. Not just an empty blanket statement of "it's junk". Just my rambling thoughts...

Jay, this stuff was originally used to provide peer-to-peer data communications for hand held data terminals. it was typically used in warehouses, and the like, for inventory control. It was also used to provide in-campus data communications. Again, it has been displaced by modern equipment that does all that, and a lot more. Of course, the commercial boys obviously use commercial gear, as opposed to the consumer Linksys equipment (such as the ICOM 802.11 b gear), but even that stuff is now dirt cheap.

The junk he has was great back in the late 1980's, but it's 20 years out of date. Technology advancement makes mincemeat out of this sort of gear that is now generations old and out of date. How much is an IBM 286 worth on eBay? Maybe $15. Same thing here, except the IBM 286 can still be useful to Batlabers.

Larry

Once agian, your statements show you know not what your speaking of.

Run along now. Bye bye.

Matt-

I really. honestly, don't know how much that stuff would be worth.

It would be really cool to have though, like set up to use with my laptop or PDA? you could use thsi system to put MDT's in your firetrucks and do run reports on the way back!

Matt

We thought about that but for our call volume and the cost of it, it wouldn't be worth it.

I'm pretty confindent that I'll never sell this stuff as a whole. If it was a worthwile venture, Metricom wouldn't have gone bankrupt leaving their crap in our garage. If I have to part the thing out and sell the parts, that is fine. I know a dual band sector antenna is worth more than 10 cents. I know a 24 port switch is worth more than 10 cents. I know this really nice outdoor cabinet is worth more than 10 cents. I know the Marconi stuff is worth more than 10 cents. Last I checked, these items did not become obsolete in 1980.

So the microcells are useless as is, thats fine. I don't expect to make money off them anyway. I'll use them as waterproof enclosures for other things. We need a new anchor for the boat, I'll fill it with cement and use one for that too. Fine. But what about all the other stuff?

nmfire10 wrote:I'm pretty confindent that I'll never sell this stuff as a whole. If it was a worthwile venture, Metricom wouldn't have gone bankrupt leaving their crap in our garage. If I have to part the thing out and sell the parts, that is fine. I know a dual band sector antenna is worth more than 10 cents. I know a 24 port switch is worth more than 10 cents. I know this really nice outdoor cabinet is worth more than 10 cents. I know the Marconi stuff is worth more than 10 cents. Last I checked, these items did not become obsolete in 1980.

It's not so much that the venture was a waste of time; these gadgets were really quite cool, and the engineering is still fairly current. The problem for Metricom was that the equipment density per square mile cost enough that they needed 25 subscribers in the same area to break even. That made it feasible only in large urban areas. Folks in those areas who were likely to buy this stuff wanted to be able to travel with it, so they didn't sign up fast enough.

This gear is NOT in the same category as 802.11; it's a cellular system through which you can roam. When the network was running, you could have internet access at a speed twice that of dialup, and do it while riding the bus/train/boat to work. Further, they priced it at flat rate, with no monthly transfer limits.

Today we supposedly have faster 3g data service on our cell phones, but it's priced by the sip.

As to pricing, I still don't know what it's all worth, though I'd really like to own it. I imagine the antennas are saleable individually. The e-radios are useless to anyone except a ricochet-lover. The networking switch in the cabinet is not worth all that much, as it's probably 5 years old; the power stuff there is cool if you're a telco geek or want to do outdoor comms with battery backup. (Note that the batteries were removed from most of these setups by Metricom when they abandoned the network.)

De

See, now that is more like it. Thank You!! I think the switch is newer that that. Hell, we might keep that and use it on our own network anyway now that I think about it.

Actually, I had an opportunity to visit Metricom's facilities when they were developing this technology in Los Gatos, California in the mid-1990s (1995, as I recall). We met with their chairman and with several of their developers.

The equipment is actually quite interesting in its design, operating with spread spectrum under Part 15 in the 902-928 band. I'm not sure what the spread spectrum algorithm was, but if it is direct sequence or frequency hopping, it could be directly usable by amateurs. Later on, the company was investigating other bands, including 2.4 GHz and even some licensed spectrum.

As I recall, it was good to 128 kb to the wireless modems, depending on loading and a couple of other factors.

Technology-wise, there was nothing at all wrong with the system. Metricom just didn't have the financing to roll it out fast enough to build a big enough user base to pay for it.

I'd say that to the right person, this equipment might have some value for experimentation. I'd be interested in a couple of the pole-mounted micro cells myself, for the right price.

Regards,

Yeah. Exactly what I was thinking.
They are fast enough to be used as point to point wireless ethernet
style Video links. As well as what ever else you might like to send
down it's data path.

And yes make use of as much of it as you can first before you get
rid of the rest. It would be worth a few experiments to see just
how you could use a few of those Pods for links.

Dave

Hello.

The service was called recochet,or something to the effect.
The idea was along the lines of what you now find as coffee shops, a wireless internet gateway, if you will.
The radios go for very cheap on ebay,and they come in PC card/PCMCIA, USB, and serial.
The system relied in the idea of a lot of units, or a lot of height,or both.
It is fairly fast,but not as fast as WiFi, even the standard 802,b stuff.
The thing I would do,if I wanted to use it.
Remove the radios proper, replace them with WiFi units.
Keep everthing else, the antennas are in the right bands, and industry quality, no consumer grade garbage here.
The router was designed for both reliabilty, and security, as this was a publc service.
All in all, a great idea, however, replaced by WiFi.
The 900MHz band was a very poor choice, and the 2.4GHz did not have the range needed.

What is the frequencies of the current WiFi units?

I never wardrived before, and am curious.

The new stuff is all 2.4Ghz too. A couple of my friends are into the whole war driving thing. One of them has as whole GPS thing that maps it all out.

Ummm. the freqs for 2.4 GHz wifi, are well - 2.4 Ghz! Not trying to be a smartass, but you dont like drive around with a scanner on a specific freq. If you have a laptop or other computer mounted in your vehicle, get a Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card, with external antenna, and download a program called NetStumbler. Launch the program and it will start detecting open networks and automatically connects to them. Wireless internet! I have the setup hardiwred into my truck with a new computer under the back seat, PCI to PCMCIA adapter and external 10db NMO mount antenna with high quality coax running to the PCMCIA card. That is being run by an 11 inch touchscreen mounted up front running WinXP Pro (screen hasnt arrived yet - should be this week). Trying to decide if I want to have the screen as a flipdown from the headliner, or have it on a gooseneck mount attached to the console. Also will be adding shortly a GPS hardwired into the unit used in conjunction with a street atlas program that will map out all of the various acess points I run across. Thus far, I havent been in a spot in my city that I cannot get on the internet in, and the best part - its all legal!

Just be careful what card you buy. I picked up a Dell TrueMobile card (same as Orinoco with Dell label). Only problem is the card is 802.11a and my and most WiFi stuff (including my house) is 802.11b. The new upcoming standard is 802.11g which will allow up to 54 megabits per second (really fast). I'd like to get a card that is complient with all 3 so I can go anywhere and do anything.

Thanks Guys !!

Not to pick any nits.... BUT....

Couldn't wardriving be considered "theft of services"?

Y'know you get someone who piggybacks off your cable connection.. considered theft of services... So technically couldn't it be considered the same thing by using someone else's internet connection?

Just a thought. I have done it on occasion too. There are 2 places in town that I can sit and surf the web no problem...

I've often wondered about that. In my opinion, if you have a WiFi network in your home or buinsess and you aren't running WEP encryption, you deserve to have others use it. It isn't like it is difficult to setup. Type a word, press enter, done.

nmfire10 wrote:I've often wondered about that. In my opinion, if you have a WiFi network in your home or buinsess and you aren't running WEP encryption, you deserve to have others use it. It isn't like it is difficult to setup. Type a word, press enter, done.

True... but to not start a humongoloid debate here.

You order and pay for internet service for your own private home use.

You buy the equipment to go wireless. Now you don't set up encryption for whatever reason (don't know about it or understand it, don't feel you need it...)

Now someone else that you don't know uses your internet connection that is purchased for your use to upload and spread a virus...

Who loses... you do. The ISP traces the upload to you and yanks your internet. The perp drives on and finds someone else....

In that case I would most definately consider it theft of services because it was someone taking advantage.

Ummm.... I don't think wardriving is legal is it?

I hate to divert the thread further, but here I go!


I'm off to google to do some research now. I've heard about it for a while now but just assumed it was illegal. I've even seen LEO bullitens about wardriving graffiti, telling officers what to look for.

I can't imagine how it could be legal when dumping your garbage in the neighbors bin is even considered theft of services.

Damn, now to think of it I have to take mine out.

later....


mancow

I just did the same thing. Basicly, what I am getting out of it is this...

Simply using a program that sniffs out and logs various access points is fine. You are not really using or accessing it, simply acknowleging it's presence. I would be like using a device that senses a leaks coax cable to see if you have cable TV or not.

If you go a steo further and start uploading, downloading, browsing, or otherwise using the network, that would be illegal. This would be like clipping into the cable TV line and watching the evening news.

Ah, that's what I read recently. I see now. Definitely takes the fun out of it though

mancow

Wardriving isn't illegal. "Looking" for AP's and having the AP respond to your ping is not illegal....

Clicking IE or Netscape and checking your email thru THEIR IP IS illegal. It's theft of services.

Some AP's just use WEP. Other's (like mine: Netgear 814) use WEP and MAC filtering. Only a person with my network card and 128bit key can gain access to my router. It's all up to the installer to determine their level of security. If they choose NOT to use security, it's the same as running your computer without virus software. It's a risk. Most people don't understand the risk.

Also, MOST wardrivers (like myself) don't do anything malicious to the router or system. Why would I want to let them know they are vulnerable and shut me out by encypting it? It reduces my sites I have access to.

I'm evil.. I know....

tpg

How could they trace you anyways? It's wireless!

The best they can trace is the MAC address you are using and the sites you went to. I'm sure there are some programs with better tracing, but if they are THAT involded, usually they're secure.

Out of a 20 minute drive, I found 31 sites... only 4 were secure.

tpg

Many folks don't run WEP because they go to T-Mobile Hot Spots, and many of the various "free" underground sites, that run in the clear. In my neighborhood, almost all of the systems run in the clear. It's only a few keystrokes to turn ON/OFF WEP, but the Hot Spot drivers don't like the hassle and they just leave it in the clear at all times, including their in-home personal systems.

There is TONs of WiFi informnation on free public systems at the following URL. Seattle was writen up by TIME magazine as one of the best free wireless sites in the US, with San Francisco, Chicago and New York City placing second, third and forth, respectively.

Larry

http://www.seattlewireless.net

Problem is that there are people who do malicious things. If your systems not secure then the people who've been done wrong come hunting you! There have been a coupla of incidents II remember that a attack or serious amounts of spam (IE mailbomb) were sent through a unnsecured wifi node. The average user would be hard pressed to prove that he/she had nothing to do with it. Cause they have no clue as to MAC addys and logging etc.

.02$

I come across Metricoms stuff frequently. The hub/switch isn't worth a lot. When it was new, it was. It's also 10Mb, which isn't good for much these days. I've played with one but it's really not worth it unless it's free. The AP, I haven't investigated. The LNAs, I'd like to see how/if they work for WiFi. I borrowed an antenna and want to check it out for its WiFi performance. Metricom was dual-band here using 900/2400 according to bands listed on an LNA.

A lot of the equipment I've seen looks specifically set up for Metricom. Half of it probably isn't plug-n-play. Since it's used you probably won't find much of a marker for it. There's really no way to estimate a dollar value. Throw some pieces up on eBay and see. If it does I'll start scooping the stuff up!

-Wayne