Nextel vs private repeater

[DAL-COM]

I would be interested to hear the pro's and con's of the following: a school district wishes to put communications in their buses (I don't count the CB radios). Should they use Nextel or shell out for a repeater and couple dozen mobiles? I don't yet know what their real goals are so I am speculating. Not knowing much about Nextel, other than they think they own PTT, I would suggest private mobile radio. Here is my list:
Area of coverage?
Monthly cost vs initial cost plus annual maintenance?
Reliability in a disaster situation?
Confidentiality?
Access to 911?
Use out of district?
Personal use?

Thanks

[KG6EAQ]

Area of coverage?

Is there a site available that will provide adequate repeater coverage?

Monthly cost vs initial cost plus annual maintenance?

Nextel will be at least $30/mo/unit whereas you can rent repeater space in most areas for $15/mo/unit.

Reliability in a disaster situation?

The bus driver should have plans on what to do in case of an emergency and only be using a radio/NEXTEL for a quick report in of what happened. Maybe the dispatcher reading off problem areas to avoid.

Confidentiality?

What kind of confidentiality does a bus driver need? He would leave with a list of who goes where, I've listened to the local school bus freq's and local transit freq's and there isn't much to listen to in the first place cause almost nothing happens. Can be handy for traffic though

Access to 911?

I don't think a school bus driver needs direct access to 911. They probably have about 40 kids behind them to take care of and don't need the phone in their hand trying to get the operator. It's much easier on the 911 system and the driver if the driver reports the accident to dispatch and then they can relay it in a calm, steady manner that the 911 operator can understand the first time around.

Use out of district?

Maybe have a phone or two for use when they leave the area. How often is a majority of the fleet out?

Personal use?

I think the radio helps this one big time. The drivers job is to drive the bus safely, not yap on a cell phone.

[motisking]

Nextel will work but will it work.

School District bus transportation are eligible for public safety frequencies should you decide go with a customer controlled system.

Motorola CM series mobiles support remote microphone and PTT for easy to operate PTT.

AVL (automatic vehicle location) is an easy option to add and should, heaven forbid, something happen to one of the buses dispatch will know right where it is.

Another feature is MDC1200 signaling, PTT ID and EMERGENCY are great to have. Footswitch activated EMERGENCY could one day pay for itself.

P.S. No I am not always this paranoid.

[nmfire10]

Private repeater all the way. Would you want the safety of your kids relying on NexTel????? I sure as hell wouldn't. All the things that motis king listed are very valid.

[RKG]

DAL-COM: The basic decisional criteria are as follows:

1. NexTel costs a recurring monthly charge, quite steep in many cases, while an owned repeater is a capital outlay (possibly substantial) plus the cost and responsibility for providing for own maintenance. In some jurisdictions, it is far harder to get budget approval for a recurring monthly charge than for a capital outlay.

2. NexTel has greater range than owned two-way, but the voice quality isn't as good as "local" traffic on an owned-two way. However, NexTel was (and is) primarily a commercial, versus a consumer, service, so its build-out highly favors metropolitan areas and major highways. If you're going into the boondocks on a regular basis, its coverage is poor.

3. NexTel gives PSTN interconnect, which can be programmed out, or programmed to be limited, such as to 911. This could be an advantage if the user is in real trouble.

4. One of NexTel's modes, group call, most closely duplicates two-way radio, namely everyone on the system hears all traffic. In most applications, this is a plus, since one of the fundamental rules of a well-designed two-way system is that 95% of the users will get 95% of the information they need 95% of the time without ever pressing the PTT. In fact, NexTel group calls are functionally the same as group calls on a wide-area trunked radio system. However, NexTel pricing generally makes the group call function unfeasible: NexTel charges $0.15 per press times all of the members of the group who are affiliated at the moment of the press.

For Fire and Police use, we employ NexTels. However, these are not a substitute for the two-way, and by direction, they are limited to administrative traffic and exclude operational traffic (except for detectives and special operations), for the very reason that life can get complicated (not to say dangerous) if all operators are not on the same page.

For my money, your application depends, in the first instance, on a couple of questions:

1. How many field units? The fewer the number, the more likely it is that NexTel will be cheaper.

2. How wide is the service area? The wider it is, the more difficult, and expensive, designing and implementing an effective two-way system will be.

3. How often to field units travel out of the service area and are required to maintain contact with home base? If this happens on a regular basis, the NexTel might make sense. If only infrequently, a couple of "ad hoc" cellular phones might do the trick. If units that are out of area only have to talk to one another, the "direct" function on a two-way mobile or portable is faster and cheaper than NexTel (or cellular).

[KG6EAQ]

Go Lowband! Low band forever! No repeater and no nextel!

[motisking]

To help with “capitol outlay” look at leasing the equipment....

http://www.leasecorp.com

[RKG]

Leasing capitol equipment is always more expensive than purchasing it, because you are in effect paying retail -- and very high retail, at that -- for the cost of the borrowed funds. It is useful only where there is some reason for making one's P&L look better than it would otherwise, though eventually the piper must be paid.

[601]

I am a school bus driver. We use a leased 500 MHz Trunked repeater system.

One thing that you'd have to consider.... What would the kids do if there is a problem with the driver? I've seen many instances where children on the bus used the two way radio to call for help. Try getting a 5 year old to use a Nextel Phone properly. Hell, even I sometimes have problems operating the phone.

While I have seen some school districts switching over to it, I wouldn't recommend it at all. It would be a lot cheaper to go with a repeater system. Initially it may cost a lot, but will save later on down the road.

And Don't go with Public safety frequencies. Most bus services around here use channels that rescue squads and such use also. These channels are usually very congested.

And hey, Lowband may be perfect! Laidlaw around here use Lowband, their base is about 25 miles from me and I can still hear their base almost crystal clear!

[DAL-COM]

Lowband really does work well out in our rural areas, as evidenced by the logging companies that depend on it. They also have cell phones of course but usually AT&T or Verizon. Many law enforcement agencies have Nextel, not sure why. Maybe they use group call?
I am told that Nextel group call is free out here but I have not verified it.
I don't know yet how many buses are involved, that seems to be a key piece of info. Maybe 20?
I have identified two possible hilltop sites that would cover the service area of about 8 by 8 miles, with 50 to 100W ERP.
The question of going out of district seems to be another key point. Maybe Nextel is attractive because you can use it out of district, and for personal calls.
Thanks for all the info and ideas.

[KG6EAQ]

If you're in a rural area don't go with Nextel. They only cover areas that will make them $$$$$ and unfortunately most rural areas don't fall in that category. There is a reason those guys have ATT and VZW, both of them allow AMPS roaming which pretty much covers all of the US.