Equipment Shelter Sanity Check

[spareparts]

I need a basic sanity check on a equipment shelter concept. Has anyone recycled a cargo box into an equipment shelter?

I have a chance to pick up a pair of 20' ISO cargo containers for scrap cost. The door ends are mangled beyond redemption. My thought was to trim the whole thing down to 16', and replace the damaged end with the head (closed end) from the other damaged container. I have ready access to a track mounted plasma cutting system, and a jig slab (concrete pad poured to near perfect level) Have both stick & MiG welders available as well.

Here's where I think I'm going to run into trouble: The local building inspector not wanting to treat this a building. Anyone ever made this idea fly on a homebrew site?

Martin

Edited once to change 16" to 16'

[kb0nly]

I know of one site that is very similar to your idea. I will see if i can find the website showing the equipment building. It was made out of a shipping container with the end doors welded solid so they were weather tight and sealed. And a steel insulated entry door was installed in the side of the container for security, since the frame for it can be directly welded to the container to make it solid. Not going to kick that door in!

I like your idea as well! Making the best out of some junked ones. I take it both of them must have been rear ended or something to smash em up that bad?

Nothing like a metal radio shack to add shielding. Go talk to your local city or county planning office. If you plan on placing it in a remote area, or property that you own, there shouldn't be a problem. I know of more than a few that have used old shipping containers for storage sheds, utility sheds, etc. If nothing else i know one guy who placed one on his property for a small work shop and storage shed, his permit lists it as a temporary movable structure, under the same category as a mobile home.

If you also have access to it, sandblast any areas of rust and prime and paint to keep it in good shape. The guy with one as a storage shed used automotive underbody coating for the bottom and about 1 1/2' feet of the sides to prevent rust from contact with rain, snow, the ground, etc.

What i think is really nice about using them, you can weld racks, mounting hardware for lights and equipment, right to the walls. And the structure is not made of flammable materials, good in areas that might experience wild fires. And if you ground the entire structure it provides shielding and lightning protection to the equipment inside.

[spareparts]

I like your idea as well! Making the best out of some junked ones. I take it both of them must have been rear ended or something to smash em up that bad? .

Happens all the time during unloading operations at Port Newark. Also happens on the head end if they hit a bridge while on the road.

Go talk to your local city or county planning office. If you plan on placing it in a remote area, or property that you own, there shouldn't be a problem. I know of more than a few that have used old shipping containers for storage sheds, utility sheds, etc. If nothing else i know one guy who placed one on his property for a small work shop and storage shed, his permit lists it as a temporary movable structure, under the same category as a mobile home.

If the headache I had with a pre-fabricated garden shed was any indication, once I ran an undergroud conduit to it for power, it became permanant & needed to meet code. I'm hoping it was done elsewhere so I could use it as an example to the AHJ.

[bernie]

My two bits worth:
Old shipping containers are often commercially "re-cycled" into equipment enclosures.

Makes one tough building.

[Jim202]

[quote="bernie"]My two bits worth:
Old shipping containers are often commercially "re-cycled" into equipment enclosures.

Makes one tough building.[/quote]


Years ago back in the hey day (not hay) of the cellular field, the company I worked for then was building cell sites out of both the small and long conex shipping containers. What I found out was that it wasn't a problem with any building or wiring inspector. It was costing us more to modify the containers to add insulation, air conditioning, inside walls, lighting, all the electrical wiring and the cable trays for all the cables.

The company could go out and almost buy a new concrete shelter for what it was costing to modify the conex containers.

On the other hand, I have seen a number of them put up on mountain tops with very little done to them and used as radio shelters. In the summer it was over 150 inside and in the winter it stayed at what ever the lowest outside temeperature was.

The metal used on them will slow down most normal weapons to an acceptable tolerance. Haven't had to repair any radio gear from small round holes being added since my last visit.

Jim

[nmfire10]

My two bits worth:
The metal used on them will slow down most normal weapons to an acceptable tolerance. Haven't had to repair any radio gear from small round holes being added since my last visit.

What, your shelters don't have self-defense systems with laser cannons? Sheesh!

If you have all the equipment to do the modifications already, it looks like a great bargain for you. You'd be saving a lot of money over a prefab hut. However, I can see where someone who had to pay to make it into a shelter from a container might see it as not worth it.

[kb0nly]

My thought is, if you can get them cheap, and modify them over time, then its well worth it. I know i couldn't afford to shell out all the money at once to buy a prefab unit for the job.

Paint the sucker white, that should reflect a fair amount of sun and heat in the summer. But, it will still get hot or cold without being insulated. Foam board insulation is actually fairly cheap these days. A layer of that inside is better than nothing if you can't afford much else. We did that to one repeater shack last year, made a huge improvement when you went inside in the summer. We also added a roof mount exhaust fan to help pull out the heat, not only from summer time temps, but heat buildup from equipment running.

[psapengineer]

Yes, that's commonly done here also. Be sure the wood floor hasn't been used to haul any thing nasty like beef carcas; smells last forever. Often they are furred out, insulated and sheeted to allow temparatue control and to reduce condensation. One thought though, at a cost of about 2-3K used and clean, why bother with a mangled one? Working doors on a good container are very secure. If it snows where you are building code may require a snow roof over the container. Good luck, Bob

[spareparts]

Yes, that's commonly done here also. Be sure the wood floor hasn't been used to haul any thing nasty like beef carcas; smells last forever. Often they are furred out, insulated and sheeted to allow temparatue control and to reduce condensation. One thought though, at a cost of about 2-3K used and clean, why bother with a mangled one?

Bob,
I'm picking them up for literally scrap metal cost. Even with the consumables & rigging, It does not look like it will be more then $1k.

The floors look clean, no stains, but at low temps I can't be 100% sure on the smell issue though.

Martin

[kb0nly]

We had one that was a bit odorific once at a place that i used to work for. On a nice sunny hot day it would have a smell resembling road kill.

What we did was open the doors, put on respirators, and started from the front working our way out with bleach and hot water. Then we let it sit for a full day to dry and air out.

After that we used some deck cleaning solution to get whatever dirt and grime the bleach couldn't get. The bleach was mainly to kill any mold or bacteria lurking. The deck cleaning solution cleans the wood and bleaches out stains. After that you can put down some sealer, you could just use some deck water sealer. We decided to put a couple coats of killz primer, its thick and fills in small imperfections as well, and the topped that off with a couple coats of the tough gray garage floor paint. That floor was really nice.

Either way, you can always clean and re-seal it. We just used what the maintenance department had on hand. Hence the killz and the cement floor paint. That's what they used around the plant for the floors and touching up every couple weeks to keep it all looking nice for OSHA.

[spareparts]

This is the transfer switch & panelboard assembly I'm using. Here are a few pictures:

Cover open, showing the interior

Generator Inlet (100 Amp, 120/240 Volt)

Controls - the breakers have an interlock on the back. Both can be off, but only one can be on at a time

Wiring diagram

Close up of the breakers

I bought a single sleeve mount AC, but are installing a second sleeve & blanking it off (in case extra HVAC capacity is needed down the road)

Have the feeders for the AC rigged up for automatic restart if on commercial power, manual restart if on the generator.

I'm waiting for the the battery racks to arrive. The first battery string to be installed is 12 volt, with space for a 24 volt string for the "new" stuff.

BTW, the batteries are Hawker SBS C-11 series. The rectifiers are Newmar telco grade

Martin

One edit to fix annoying typo!

[Zaputil]

I've even seen metal grain bins used as Com shelters. Your plan isn't that far out.

A couple of other ideas: Bolt/weld in an overhead cable tray system. The electrical outllets can be mounted directly to the tray. This would keep the side walls less cluttered for insulation. You already know you need it in NJ. Professional spray-on insulation might also be and option- I've seen a few sites like that and it seems to work well. (Easy install, too). You'll still need some sort of ventilation or air cond. Weld a metal frame around the vent cutouts before insulation.

Good luck!

SZ

[spareparts]

A couple of other ideas: Bolt/weld in an overhead cable tray system. The electrical outllets can be mounted directly to the tray. This would keep the side walls less cluttered for insulation. You already know you need it in NJ. Professional spray-on insulation might also be and option- I've seen a few sites like that and it seems to work well. (Easy install, too). You'll still need some sort of ventilation or air cond. Weld a metal frame around the vent cutouts before insulation.

I'm working on the insulation issue. Had a contractor quote on the sprayed in isocyanate stuff. He wanted $1200.00 *NOT* A local fabricator is making up 10 gauge steel studs shaped like a squared off "Z" They match the 2" thick commerical foam board. I'll tack them to the wall, which gives me a surface to glue the interior skin to.

The same guy cut a strip of 1/8 steel with a "sawtooth" pattern to make the horizontal part of the door, air conditioner frames and cable ports. He has a CNC laser cutting system. I did the programming with AutoCad & he ran it for me.

BTW, have some of the cable tray already. Will need to find or buy the sweeps & hangers

Martin

One edit to fix bad grammer (thank _od this is not QRZ - I would be tarred & feathered for it)

[spareparts]

In case anyone is interested, things are moving along fairly well. Made up the power cord & adaptor for the genset.

This will allow me to use a 3 phase genset, without rewiring or other hacks (my genset is single phase).

The "shore power" cord has a male & female connector (120/240 volt 4 wire 100 Amp. The female (orange) connector is idential to the one in the photo above.

BTW if anyone want a DXF file of the cable entry panel, or any of the other small parts, PM or e-mail me.

Martin

[kb0nly]

How about some pictures of the shelter, i would like to see the progress, would make a good argument to get another club into a better enclosure near me. I offered to go out and take pictures of one i know about, but its a couple hour drive away.

Right now they have their repeater and other gear in a rickety old wooden shack at the base of the tower. I swear that thing is going to fall over some day!

[spareparts]

How about some pictures of the shelter, i would like to see the progress, would make a good argument to get another club into a better enclosure near me.

Will do - I'm making arrangements to move it to where the finishing work will be done (exterior paint, Ice shield, insulation, interior wall finish, etc)

Martin

[kb0nly]

Sounds like a fun project, can't wait to see some pictures of the progress. I know of some containers that might be had for nothing, if i can convince the local club to use them.

[ASTROMODAT]

Sounds like this might be an OK idea for a Ham radio sort of set up, with a cheapie Icom repeater, or an MTS-2000, MSF 5000, or the like, where you wouldn't mind finding everything ripped off and/or completely vandalized the first time you return to the "site." But, for commercial applications (which I assume this is), would you really want to place an $18,000 to $30,000 Quantar in this thing? What about insurance? Given the associated costs of owning and operating a repeater (e.g., tower climber, insurance, etc.), seems like this would be penny wise, but pound foolish.

larry

[spareparts]

Larry,
ISO / Connex cargo containers have been used as Cell sites. I'm a code eligible high pressure pipe & plate welder (meaning I pay to do a test weld & presto! I'm certified).

The door assembly I'm using is the same door assembly that Kullman uses on it's shelters, with a 4 point locking system & meet both blast & ballistic ratings for Verizon & Sprint use. The walls are minimum .125 corten steel. Everything is welded solid, with the exception of the door to the frame.

Could you expand on how this construction is likely to be broken into? It's the same stuff that is used for cell sites & MTSO. No issues or angst here, just looking for insight.

BTW, it's not commercial, otherwise, it would have an ATS and generator, rather then the MTS I'm using.

Martin

[kf4sqb]

Could you expand on how this construction is likely to be broken into? It's the same stuff that is used for cell sites & MTSO. No issues or angst here, just looking for insight.

Martin, didn't you know that every thief and vandal carries an Oxy/Acetylene rig in their back pocket? Sounds like a pretty good fortress to me (does it come with a moat, too?)! Those things are pretty well built.

If the headache I had with a pre-fabricated garden shed was any indication, once I ran an undergroud conduit to it for power, it became permanant & needed to meet code. I'm hoping it was done elsewhere so I could use it as an example to the AHJ.

Should be a pretty easy problem to get around. Run the under ground conduit, but don't connect it to the building. Build a "frame" beside it, and mount your disconnect and whatnot on it, along with a large receptacle. Then, connect the "building" with a cord and plug. Problem solved, it is still portable, and isn't premanately connected, so it should be exempt from meeting code for a fixed structure. And yes, as a matter of fact, I am an electrician before anyone asks.


Another idea for an pretty well built, although much smaller, equipment enclosure. Check with your local railroad's signal department. They may have some old signal inclosures that are bound for the scrap yard that they will let you have for cheap. They come in all sorts of different sizes, from app. 4'D X 6'W X 5.5'H, to 6' X 6' X 7', and even up to 12' X 12' X 7', and maybe even bigger. Most of the older ones are made out of steel, at least 14 ga. on some of them. Several of the signal sites that I take care of have several dents from bullets in the cabinet, but very few have holes from them. I even have one that was hit by a car, and suffered very minor damage, while the car had to be towed. Then, most of the newer enclosures are made out of aluminum. A lot of them use 1/4" thick aluminum , but it is aluminum! Haven't had any of those get shot yet (or hit by a car!), so I don't know how well they stand up to abuse. Oh, one more thing, most of the 6' X 6', and bigger, enclosures come with an equipment rack mounted in them. I don't think it is a standard 19" rack though, I think it's closer to 21".


Finally, I agree with Scott, KB0NLY, I would like to see some pictures of this fortress you are building!


(I'll get through adding stuff eventually, I hope!)

[kb0nly]

Martin, didn't you know that every thief and vandal carries an Oxy/Acetylene rig in their back pocket? Sounds like a pretty good fortress to me (does it come with a moat, too?)! Those things are pretty well built.

I would be VERY suprised if someone broke into it. If it was out in the middle of no where squared, and if it had good road access, i could see someone with the smarts and intestinal fortitude try to make a raid on it, but still!

There was one that was being used as a temporary radio shelter a while back while they were tearing down and rebuilding the local law enforcement center. That one was not modified for the explicit use of a radio shelter, but i still couldn't see anyone getting in easily. Even a stock container is well locked if you latch the doors and put a heavy duty padlock on it.

Its funny you happened to mention the signal enclosures! I know a commercial repeater site on a hilltop that has a nice once on the cement slab next to the tower. That sucker has at least a dozen bullet dents in it. I guess the good ole' boys like taking pot shots at it!

[kf4sqb]

Yeah, some idiots seem to shoot at anything. You should see how many lenses, reflectors, and sometimes whole light heads I have to replace on the signal equipment I work on. All those parts are Lexan (lenses), polystyrene or glass (reflectors), and cast aluminum (light housing). Bird shot from a shotgun, the lens will usually stop, although it still pretty well ruins the lens, but most pistol or rifle rounds go right on through.

[kb0nly]

To revive an old thread...

Any updates? Get some snap shots of the finished product? Sure would like to see it!

[mr.syntrx]

Martin, didn't you know that every thief and vandal carries an Oxy/Acetylene rig in their back pocket? Sounds like a pretty good fortress to me (does it come with a moat, too?)! Those things are pretty well built.

I would be VERY suprised if someone broke into it. If it was out in the middle of no where squared, and if it had good road access, i could see someone with the smarts and intestinal fortitude try to make a raid on it, but still!

There was one that was being used as a temporary radio shelter a while back while they were tearing down and rebuilding the local law enforcement center. That one was not modified for the explicit use of a radio shelter, but i still couldn't see anyone getting in easily. Even a stock container is well locked if you latch the doors and put a heavy duty padlock on it.

Its funny you happened to mention the signal enclosures! I know a commercial repeater site on a hilltop that has a nice once on the cement slab next to the tower. That sucker has at least a dozen bullet dents in it. I guess the good ole' boys like taking pot shots at it!

If I had one of those little outdoor rack cabinets, I'd line it with 1/4-inch steel plate first.

[Birken Vogt]

Around here they are quite common...we use one and /\/\ does too. They are both 20' versions. Whoever installed them first poured four concrete pillars to get them off the ground, near the corners, they are about 24" in diameter and maybe 24" tall. Then they have a staircase and a normal commercial steel door in the side, and the air conditioner is on the end, also it has backup forced air ventilation, and inside is all plywood walls/ceiling, with linoleum floor. It certainly was not a thrown together job but not too involved. I was not there to see it built but if I was to build one it's easy enough to pour the pillars, then put down some kind of nice floor, stick frame the walls and ceiling and put in insulation and screw down the plywood. Also in this shack all the original electrical was buried in the walls, some has since been added on exposed conduit, also there are good lights on the ceiling. It sees a lot of rain and snow but it doesn't leak, it is a good shack.

Birken

[RFdude]

See http://www.seabox.com for some ideas. There are also different heights. The standard box is only 8'6" which seems too low to have an overhead tray over a 7' rack. 9'6" is the next standard height. You can go to 11'6" if you use a double low trailer to maintain bridge and wire clearance during transportation.

How do you find the heights of your ISO container telecom shelters working out for you?

[Birken Vogt]

I think ours is the 8'6" version; I will try to remember to measure. There is only about a foot of space above the cable tray but it is enough. Ours is only a 20 footer though so it is not possible to cram too terribly much equipment in there to need all that many cables anyway.

When Verizon was in there with their 23" racks they had them set up parallel to the side wall but now we are doing some serious upgrading/rearranging and I am placing the racks perpindicular to the wall; there will be 2 side by side on one wall spaced about 36" down one side and if that gets filled up we will start putting them down the other side leaving about a 20-24" aisle. If it ever gets to that point it will be pretty tight but things are always coming and going so who knows really.

Birken