Interesting reading Red vs. Blue Lights

[RadioSouth]

My local paper has a story by the Associated Press:

Highway Patrol adds Red Lights, New Sirens.

Tallahasee---- The Florida Highway Patrol is adding red lights and new sirens to it's troopers cars, hoping the new equipment will make roadways safer for motorists and it's own officers.
It's believed to be the 1st change to the FHP's traditionally blue and clear light bars that have been in use more than 50 years.
An FHP study published last year found with flashing lights,twice the amount of blue light energy is needed in daylight to be perceived as bright as red. At night though, the situation is reversed.
A computer will automatically turn the red lights on during the day and the blue lights on at night.
The light bars will cost the HP about $2,100/ea. With about 1,800 vehicles the agency will pay about $3.7 Million for the equiupment.
The FHP also is lowerig the tone of the sirens on patrol cars to make it easier for motorists to hear the siren inside well-insulated vehicles.

[KitN1MCC]

sounds like some one is gonna make a lot of money on Custom order,

[007]

http://www.theiacp.org/div_sec_com/comm ... uality.pdf

[nmfire10]

You've got to be kidding me. Every police car in the state of CT has had 1/2 blue & 1/2 red light bars for the last 30+ years with no fancy day/night mode. Why do they need to switch them day and night? Why not just leave them both on all the time and forget the stupid switching ********???

[RadioSouth]

Yup, like Kit said. It's a cakewalk here to convince any local/state entity to spend $$$ unnecessarily. FL has to be the largest user of 800 where it's needed the least. Nice flat terrain with mainly low rise building doesn't spell 800 to me nor the fact that the channel loading isn't there either. Got some snake oil to sell ? Think I've got a buyer for you.

[apco25]

This makes no sense, RED is optically WEAKER than BLUE

So they'll have all red bars during the day and all blue bars during the night?


WTF!

[jedi_saber]

Sounds like someone is gonna make a lot of money off this.

As Matt said, I don't see why you can't just go with a red and blue lightbar - sounds retarded and like a huge waste of money to me!

Not to mention, it will be confusing to have 2 distintively different and exclusive colors for the same agency...

the cheaper alternative right now would be to add 1-2 red lenses or LED modules on the dash or rear deck.

[KitN1MCC]

i bet it is some dealer or mfg was like we can split color and add all this fancy stuff

welll what i have been told
best to worst

white,amber,blue,red,grenn,purple

[EC-7]

I guess they havent ever been told how easy it is to replace 1 or 2 lenses on a car, in a parking lot with a screwdriver. I guess that shop will make lots of $$$ taking all the cars in for a full lightbar re-wire and spend 10x the labor time on it.

They could also just add a traffic backer lights to the brakes/reverse and make it easier.

Who needs a "computer" to tell day/night when a simple relay wired to the running/parking lights or headlights could solve the day/night problem.

[Station House Products]

Your tax dollars hardly at work. PA has used red/blue combo for police for years without a hitch. There should really be a nation wide lighting agrreement so there is no confusion about who is behind you when you see lights.

PD - Red/Blue
EMS - Green
Fire (Regular Member) - Blue
Fire Chiefs - Red

Alot of states have adopted this and it works nicely. It's nice to know who's behind you and what to expect when you pull off to the side of the road for a set of lights that are behind you.

[Adam]

I'd hate for people to think that.. well.. he's not the Chief why should I care to pull over to let him pass?

All persons should be equal.

In KY, all Fire and EMS are Red.. and can use clear and amber.

Police must use Blue and can use red at their preference. State are solid Blue.

Amber is construction and Towing.

Green is security and command vehicles have a green light for identification.

So, Station House.. how would one tell the difference between a security guard and EMS? Or what does security fall under with the scheme you posted?

[nmfire10]

Security guards would fall under amber like they do everywhere else I've seen.

In CT:

Police Vehicles: Red / Blue / White / Amber

EMS Apparatus: Red / White / Amber
EMS personal vehicles: Green / Amber / Wig-Wags

Fire Apparatus: Red / White / Amber (can use blue as well, most don't)
Fire personal vehicles: Blue / Amber / Wig-Wags

Utility, tow trucks, snow plows, guards, etc: Amber

[tvsjr]

Texas makes things simple. If you're an authorized emergency vehicle (fire/police vehicle, volunteer FF/EMS, ambulance, tissue transfer, wreckers operating in a public roadway, etc.) you can use red/blue/white lights. I'm a vollie and will have predominantly red/blue on the new truck, along with some white, amber (arrowstik + two rear heads), and potentially green at some point.

Amber, green, and purple are not mentioned in the law.

Security whackers aren't authorized emergency vehicles and are given no additional consideration than that given to a regular passenger vehicle. Of course, these yahoos still run around with blue/white/amber lights (almost never red), and we had a case a few weeks ago of a police impersonator with a vehicle and blue/white lighting matching the description of a local wacker security company pulling a woman over and raping her.

[Pj]

Arughhh!!!!

Another light law releated thread!!!!!!!!

Anyways, the only off the shelf bar that I can think of that would be easliy modified would be the Whelen Freedom. With the split color LED modules, make top half red, bottom blue, or whatever. You will still get a performace of at least the Liberty bar with 1/2 the LED's in operation.

I can't say I have seen any other bars that have been released without staggering full modules.

[fd2119]

Now that Whelen has introduced the red/blue and red/red/white Talon, would it be possible to introduce them into a Freedom or Liberty bar in the FHP config, so that you would have what appeared as a fully lit bar all the time, wether the red, blue, or both were on? Just a thought.

[tvsjr]

Don't forget Tomar's LED bar... it's a double-stack all the way around, just like the Freedom. Of course, it's fugly turned off (but sexxy turned on! )

[bellersley]

This makes no sense, RED is optically WEAKER than BLUE
WTF!

That's true, however your retna is most responsive to red light, that is, even if you don't realize it, red is the colour most recognized by your optics.

[jmr3865]

NJ

Amber-construction, security
Blue- VOLUNTEER EMS/FD
Red-Apparatus, Chief's
Clear-anybody
Green-command
purple- not used

Apparatus can use any color, that gets on the vehicle.
Volunteer EMS and FD cannot use sirens,etc. As of right now, there is not legal blue light for NJ.

[kg4ere]

Its a fire car! Its a police car! No its the FHP!

[apco25]

We're missing the point here, this is goverment lunacy at its best.

Obviously no one did their homework on this one at all...

[007]

We're missing the point here, this is goverment lunacy at its best.

Obviously no one did their homework on this one at all...

No, the problem here is that they did do their homework...see the IACP article I linked to above. They did a massive study on light colors/siren tones and the motorist receptivity to them.

There is nothing wrong with the blue/white/amber lights they were running, but someone had the bright (no pun) idea to hose up the whole process because a couple of geezers in 15 year old Cadillac's bitched that they couldn't see the lights.

[Pj]

The bigger problem is...

Sound proofing and dark tints and just plain people not paying attention

[nmfire10]

Going to commercial structure fire last night (yea for burning chemicals!), this guy not only pulled over but he baja'd completely off the road onto somebody's front lawn with his SUV. Why can't everybody do that??

I haven't installed some fancy color-cycling bull$h!t on the rescue yet and it moves people like moses parting the red sea.

[jmr3865]

That is Kentucky state law: you must be OFF the roadway.

[nmfire10]

How do you pull OFF the road with curbs, guard rails, trees, ditches, etc?

[jmr3865]

on the curb, on the sidewalk, shoulder, on the lawns, etc.

[jedi_saber]

Hahaha... you KNOW there is some aggressive driving going on when you fly up behind ppl that makes them jump the curb to get out of your way - always a good time!

[fd2119]

Hahaha... you KNOW there is some aggressive driving going on when you fly up behind ppl that makes them jump the curb to get out of your way - always a good time!

Now I KNOW you must be from the DC area, too!

[mastr]

That is Kentucky state law: you must be OFF the roadway.

Wrong, but it would be nice....

(1) Upon the approach of an emergency vehicle equipped with, and operating, one (1)
or more flashing, rotating, or oscillating red or blue lights, visible under normal
conditions from a distance of five hundred (500) feet to the front of such vehicle; or
the driver is given audible signal by siren, exhaust whistle, or bell, the driver of
every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, immediately drive to a position
parallel to, and as close as possible to, the edge or curb of the highway clear of any
intersection, and stop and remain in such position until the emergency vehicle has
passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer or firefighter.

[c17loadsmasher]

SC has something about an exhause whistle...but I have yet to hear/see one...I assume it's just something antiquated...but does anyone know WTF an exhaust whistle is?

[nmfire10]

Yea, CT's statutes also allow you to use a bell or exhaust whistle. Always right on top of things here in CT!

[wb4bsd]

its funny, because about 12 years ago all of the locals where i am from switched from 1/2 red and 1/2 blue to an all blue light bar. Now i guess since FHP is switching to something new, it will work its way up to TN. Oh well, i dont care what i drive as long as the county is paying for the gas.lol

[kb0nly]

All i can say is they better make them sirens damn loud to get peoples attention.

I was riding with a friend of mine not too long ago, he bought a new Chrysler 300, beautiful car, a state patrol buzzed by with his lights and siren on, all i can say is that those lights are becoming more critical because all i heard of his siren was blip, blip. Had we been talking at that moment or had the stereo on i never would have heard the siren.

But, i did see the lights. An impressive array of LED and strobes. The state troopers around here look like psycho christmas trees at night, but when they have someone stopped you will see the lights on the squad miles before you get to his location. Plenty of time to slow down and watch for anyone walking around on the road.

The newer vehicles have such effective soundproofing, especially the luxury class vehicles, that you hardly hear another driver blasting his horn.

[M3SGC]

Hi all I'm taking a gamble that someone here is intersted in how we do things "UK side". In the UK;

Blue = Police, Fire, Ambulance (& Paramedics), HM Coatguard, Mines rescue (before the Thatcher government killed the industry), HM Prison service

Green = Doctors

Yellow = Airports only

Amber = Breakdown/recovery, road sweepers, large loadsetc

NB Police also use flashing red to rear

Sorry to bore you all

[mastr]

All i can say is they better make them sirens damn loud to get peoples attention.....The newer vehicles have such effective soundproofing, especially the luxury class vehicles, that you hardly hear another driver blasting his horn.

A FMVSS standard to limit "soundproofing" to a reasonable degree would be more feasable. Common sense dictates that a driver should be aware of his/her surroundings, including sound.

[wb4bsd]

all drivers need to be aware of their surroundings. I am lucky, my A/c is broken so i am forced to ride with the windows down, but i would anyway since i like to hear whats going on around me.

[Pj]

Exhust whistle = air horn

[BPD109]

We use Red (driver side)/blue (Passenger side). People that move their butts outta the way of our emergency vehicles are usually paying a fair amount of attention to their surroundings.

I will say that people will get the hell outta the way of our fire truck...when they lay on that Q. wow.

Some say that drunks can see red better, some say they dont want blue so that they aren't associated with vollies, and or whackers. Its hard to say..so we put red/blue lenses on the light bars, red/blue TIR3's in the grille, and a multi-pattern arrowstick in the rear deck. Just covered all the bases.

Typically Incident Command vehicles are designated with a green light. Funeral escorts use purple ..

My $.02

[RadioSouth]

Well I got my 1st look at one of these bars in operation and wow! It was during daylight hours while the car was stationary and the bar had Red only showing to the rear and had 2 horiz. lines of amber in the rear window as well. I was able to spot this a couple of miles back wondering in heck what it was till I came up to it, stood out quite well.

[RESCUE161]

Hi all I'm taking a gamble that someone here is intersted in how we do things "UK side". In the UK;

Blue = Police, Fire, Ambulance (& Paramedics), HM Coatguard, Mines rescue (before the Thatcher government killed the industry), HM Prison service

Green = Doctors

Yellow = Airports only

Amber = Breakdown/recovery, road sweepers, large loadsetc

NB Police also use flashing red to rear

Sorry to bore you all

So, how do you tell the difference between Yellow and Amber when the lights are on?

[wa2zdy]

That is Kentucky state law . . .

Kentucky has laws? How is it I heard about that brother and sister being married and having all those three-eyed children?

[ChrisC2479]

The supplier for the FHP's new light & Siren system is Code 3 Inc.
Here is a link to the PDF file about the new system.
http://www.code3inc.com/pdf/C3PS30905-3.pdf

[ASTROMODAT]

I assume that since this study was looking at Officer Safety they were after the MAXIMUM perceived effect to (the typical dumab ass) motorists.

Given that one should therefore use the MAXIMUM available power that can be supplied from the police vehicle's power supply system (keeping in mind the power needs of the radio and various other equipment), to MAXIMIZE the perceived light output, you would use MAXIMUM available light power to an ALL RED lightbar during the daytime hours, and MAXIMUM available light power to an ALL BLUE lightbar at night.

This way, whatever maximum power is available in the vehicle for the lightbar's needs, the Officer will have the MAXIMUM perceived light output for the appropriate conditions. Obviously a HUGE power supply system and generator/alternator is necessary in ALL cases. The point here is that whatever size the vehicle's poweer supply system is, the engineer for the FHP would want to pump all available power to the lightbar, and then use the most effective color for day versus night.

Sounds to me like this scientific study is proving that humans perceive a higher effective output by using red in the day, and blue at night. Not that complicated to understand.

[Cowboy]

Now that Whelen has introduced the red/blue and red/red/white Talon, would it be possible to introduce them into a Freedom or Liberty bar in the FHP config, so that you would have what appeared as a fully lit bar all the time, wether the red, blue, or both were on? Just a thought.

Install manual is out:
http://www.whelen.com/install/140/14019.pdf

Some interesting notes:
- LFL Liberty using red/blue split linear modules with blue half on all 4 corners
- Rear split modules - /BR|BR|BR|BR|RB|RB|RB|RB\ (Blue facing outboard)
- Front split modules - /BR|BR|BR|td|RB|td|RB|RB|RB\
- Park mode (White/Red wire) "In Park Mode all activated lightheads will flash simultaneously with six flashes of "SingleFlash 90" and one flash Comet Flash"
- Red Blue Steady (White/Brown wire) "Applying +12 volts to the WHITE/BROWN wire will activate all the Front Red and Blue lightheads except the Corners. The lightheads will run steady with no flash. These serve as auxillary takedowns"

[irsa]

Geez Australian law is simple.
Blue and red, either single or combined=Police, Fire, Ambulance, state resue agencies and approved private medical or rescue companies.
Magenta/purple= State vehicle inspectors.
Green=First aid/private ambulance.
Amber=Any vehicle that may cause a hazard to other road uses. These include sercurity, utility, recovery and over size loads. Not to mention tractors and forklifts.
Last I checked there was no specific law regarding flashing white lights, except for the unofficial one only fitting them to Fire and Ambulance units and only operate them in day light.

[mr.syntrx]

To be more precise (according to New South Wales law):

Blue or blue/red: Police, fire, State Rescue Board accredited SES vehicles

Green: Stationary incident command vehicles only. (no accredited private ambulances in Australia, with the exception of the states/territories where St John is responsible for ambulance services. St John, Red Cross etc elsewhere can run amber.)

Red only: Non-SRB SES vehicles, private SRB accredited rescue vehicles such as Volunteer Rescue Association member squads, mine rescue vehicles, Red Cross blood/organ transport vehicles

Magenta: RTA and local council heavy vehicle enforcement

Amber: Non-SRB volunteer vehicles, as well as the others mentioned

[james harrison]

they should just wave a banana,,at passing motorist,s its a attention getter,,and would be cheaper than new light bars,,,hee,,hee

[Phred]

Exhaust whistle = air horn

Actually, an "exhaust whistle" was an accessory of the Ford Model T -
they're not unlike a pipe organ "pipe" or a steam engine "whistle" ...

a pipe or tube with a slot cut near the inlet end and plugged at the distant end.
The size of the tube, dimension of the slot, and length are all "tuned" to
produce a particular "note".

Power to blow it came from the car's exhaust via a foot operated diverter valve
that partially obstructed the exhaust and sent exhaust gasses through the whistle.

[irsa]

To be more precise (according to New South Wales law):

Green: Stationary incident command vehicles only. (no accredited private ambulances in Australia, with the exception of the states/territories where St John is responsible for ambulance services. St John, Red Cross etc elsewhere can run amber.)

Ah First Aid Australia, Parasol EMT to name but 2 run/have run green on their respective vehicles. And there are a couple of industrial Ambulances with red lights around. Plus there is that sercurity Falcon with the GREEN light bar. To be honest I thought what you posted was the case, although I was understanding the regulations have changed too what I posted.

[mr.syntrx]

Hmm. Some wacker is being a bit naughty then - the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 1998 (current as of now) says only a fire brigade command vehicle may display a green light. Who are these security blokes with the green lightbars?

By private ambulance I meant the commercial outfits like they have in the USA. Legally, industrial ambulances etc are thrown into the same category as industrial rescue vehicles.