Good Moto rig for amateur use

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N1VLV
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Good Moto rig for amateur use

Post by N1VLV »

Hi all, I am looking for some help, preferably from some of you that have or are currently using Motorola radios in the VHF and UHF ham bands.

I came across this site as a result of researching my options to get myself a decent Motorola mobile radio. Basically, what I am after is a radio that is capable of TX/RX 144-148, but I am lost as to where to begin. Alphanumeric display also looks very attractive to me, so I am thinking the Spectra series would be my best bet.

Now here is the hard part. I know I can build RIB boxes based on the information I have found on this site so far, but what about RSS? How much can I expect to pay for it from Motorola?

I have been fascinated by Motorola 2 way radios since I was a kid and the sheer thought of owning my own to use on the ham bands would be cool second to none.

Where should I start? Anyone have any suggestions on what model radio to get for my desired results?

Sorry if these questions have been asked before, if they are covered in an FAQ please forgive me as I may have overlooked them. Like all newbies, I must start somewhere :)
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HLA
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Post by HLA »

first thing i'd ask is how much do you want to spend? the spectra you are talking about won't do narrow band if that's an option you want unless you get an astro version. if you want an alpha display i'd go with a mcs2000 model 2 or 3. they are at least 160 channels and you can get them with almost any option you want. or next i'd check out a cdm1250 which is 64 channels or a cdm1550 that is 160 channels.
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bellersley
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Post by bellersley »

The Spectra is a VERY nice rig to use for VHF amateur use. You might also take a look at the MCS2000 and CDM series. I know several hams that use the CDM1250 (myself included).

As for programming, the CDM is probably the easiest. If you take a look at the Radius section on Batlabs, there is a really simple to build RIB-like interface. The other radios are going to be a bit more involved. Take a look at http://www.priceindustries.com. They offer several ribless programming cables that cover numerous radio types.

As for software, the only legit way is through Motorola which can be expensive. There are other places if you look hard enough but only the Motorola route is legit. You could always contact a local Motorola dealer, more than likely they would be willing to program it for a reasonable fee (certainly a lot less than buying the required hardware). Or, try asking on here, depending on where you are a board member may be willing to offer their programming services.

But please don't ask for RSS/CPS on the board, its a "no no" and frowned upon greatly by the administration.
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Post by bellersley »

The Spectra is a VERY nice rig to use for VHF amateur use. You might also take a look at the MCS2000 and CDM series. I know several hams that use the CDM1250 (myself included).

As for programming, the CDM is probably the easiest. If you take a look at the Radius section on Batlabs, there is a really simple to build RIB-like interface. The other radios are going to be a bit more involved. Take a look at http://www.priceindustries.com. They offer several ribless programming cables that cover numerous radio types.

As for software, the only legit way is through Motorola which can be expensive. There are other places if you look hard enough but only the Motorola route is legit. You could always contact a local Motorola dealer, more than likely they would be willing to program it for a reasonable fee (certainly a lot less than buying the required hardware). Or, try asking on here, depending on where you are a board member may be willing to offer their programming services.

But please don't ask for RSS/CPS on the board, its a "no no" and frowned upon greatly by the administration.
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kb0nly
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Post by kb0nly »

Don't forget the X9000, yeah i know, older but some damn fine radios. Big, yes, durable, yes, 100w yes, alpha display head, yes.. The list goes on.

However, expect to get an alignment done to push it into the ham band better. They will program down to 144 easy enough with the ham band version of the RSS but receive sensitivity will drop off below 147, at least it did on the VHF's i have worked on.

With the right RSS you can get it up to 255 channels if necessary. They are available as 32ch, 64ch, 128ch stock, the 255 mode version was a special non-moto hack. All of them are capable of more channels, so if you get stuck with a 32ch radio all you need is a EEprom upgrade in the radio and head and you have a 64ch, that is if the current firmware supports it otherwise you just need to upgrade the firmware Eprom.

If you get lucky enough to find one with the optional internal preamp they can be a really hot radio after a tuneup into the ham band.
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Rayjk110
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Post by Rayjk110 »

Right now I use a CDM1250 and it's a great radio on ham. Depending on how much you talk, it can get warm at times. (even on the low power setting) At my setup I have an old Computer PowerSupply fan cabletied to a part of the power cord and it leans at an angle towards the PA fins, so it doesn't get hot what-so-ever. (Can post pics if people want...) Other than that a MCS is nice, too.
N9LLO
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Post by N9LLO »

My mobile setup consists of a 100w X9000 on UHF. A 50w remote mount Spectra on VHF and a 100w GE Delta with S990 head on 6M (front programming modified).


Chris
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MCX1000

Post by 1 Adam 12 »

Also throw in the MCX 1000, Alpha 128 modes, scan, mulit-pl select etc.
Lots of these in 138-160 range from Canada on Ebay, etc. Lots of UHFs floating around also.

One other suggestion, if you want the best of both worlds get a Saber converta-com with display mike, dual band amateur amp and antenna.
Gives you an HT and also 30-45 watts out in the car... one of my favorite set-ups.
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Post by RadioSouth »

I diverge a bit in my opinion. I got started in Moto. stuff as I lived in a high RF density area and amateur rigs just didn't have tight enough front ends to eliminate all the overload. Also I needed something I could press
into public safety service on occasion so Moto. fit the bill on both aspects.
Getting started in Moto. stuff is a pretty significant financial commitment and the lack of programmability on the fly can be a PIA. So unless you're in one of these heavy RF areas or you need the durability or extended frequency range of a commercial radio there's some really nice Ham rigs out there at a fraction of the cost factoring in your programming equipment. Also outfits like Vertex and Icom have recently narrowed the gap between their lineups and Moto. equipment and have become serious contenders. If I was starting from scratch I'd 1st look at Ham equipment, if entended range/durability was needed my next stop would be Vertex or Yaesu. I'd only get started with Moto. stuff if I needed to match up with an existing fleet for compability in the battery, accessories area.
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Post by PETNRDX »

Another vote for the trusty MCX1000. They are becoming quite inexpensive now. As above stated, 128 ch, AlphaNumeric, EXECELLENT squelch, the best Nuisance delete Moto ever made. Zones. And it seems to me the RSS came down in price also.
You might consider just paying someone else to program any Moto radio you buy, at least in the beginning.
All the RSS is kinda expensive.
I am still using an MCX1000. Bought a Spectra to replace it, but went right back to the MCX, as its features were better than the Spectra for what I need.
I use MCS2000 for 900 mhz, MCX 1000 for VHF & UHF, and the SYNTOR X9000 for 6 & 10 meters....
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Post by motorola_otaku »

As one last reality check, I'll point out that software is both expensive and tricky to obtain by an individual.. but not impossible. First off, M won't do business with you unless you have a Motorola Online (MOL) account, so to get one of those call up 1-800-422-4210, tell them what you're looking to do, and they'll walk you through the setup. All of the software licensing is handled there; none of this read-10-pages-sign-and-fax business you may have read about on the Batlabs main page or in older posts here. It takes about 2 weeks for them to process, but once you're set up you can buy pretty much any software package except PRO series (HT750/1250, etc..) CPS.

Once you've made up your mind to jump through the hoops and shell out the big $$, I'd recomment a Maxtrac or similar radio as a good beginner rig. Programming is pretty straightforward and the software won't hit you too terribly hard in the pocketbook. And for the most part, they all have HOT receivers. I had one on the service monitor the other day that broke squelch at .11mV. The favorite among most hams is the 40-watt 32-channel Maxtrac 300 for their expanded channel capacity and feature sets, so you can expect to pay upwards of $250 (ballpark range) for one of those. But don't discount the lower-powered 16, 8, and even 2-channel models; they're all good radios. The Radius Mobile (GM300, M120/208/216) series is built on identical architecture, so all of this applies to them as well.

Another good beginner rig is the M1225. The VHF models are spec'd for 150-174 MHz bandsplit, but will work down to 144 with no appreciable loss of receive sensitivity or transmit power. The 20-channel versions have 8-character alphanumeric displays and will scan EVERY channel in the radio (more on this later). They're fairly popular among volunteer agencies as personal radios, so you can also expect to pay around $250 ballpark for them as well.

If you've just gotta have a Spectra, great, go for it. They're not quite as sensitive as the Maxtracs, but you can get them in up to 110-watt versions. However, the software is a bit convoluted and confusing, and you're limited to scanning 16 of the 128 possible conventional channels MAX. In fact, as a rule, no Motorola radio will allow you to scan more than 16 channels, regardless of how many it will hold. This, IMO, is the greatest tradeoff between a Motorola rig and a consumer-grade ham radio or scanner. However, there are workarounds. If the Spectra you're looking at has a MLM software version greater than 6.15 (be sure to ask), you can program your channel list into zones and have a seperate scanlist for each zone. Additionally, each scanlist will hold any channel in the radio, so, for example, your Zone 3 scanlist can have channels from Zones 1 and 2 in it. However, you cannot scan each zone's scanlist sequentially. Once you're in a zone, you're limited to its scanlist. This rule also applies to the MCS2000 mobiles, as they are all zone-capable.


Hope this answers some of your questions. I've been a licensed ham for 4 years and have never owned an actual ham radio. In fact, if it weren't for Field Day I would've never even talked on one. :lol: [/motosnob]
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wa2zdy
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Post by wa2zdy »

My 1985 vintage Syntor X did a fantastic job before I stopped driving. 135w out on the Telewave too.

If I ever drive again and get my own car (starting to seem likely as the medical reason I stopped driving seems to be under control now,) I will have the Syntor X back in the car and I'll get a Piexx EEPROM replacement module to make it more easily reprogrammed.

I didn't recommend the Syntor X to you when you first asked as it isn't easy to program as it is with the burnable EEPROM, and I didn't think you were interested in a big trunk mounted monster.
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kb0nly
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Post by kb0nly »

But if he is interested in a trunk mount monster get the X's big brother the X9000 and have a RSS programmable version of the sturdy X.

A couple other things to point out about the X9000, you can NOT brick it do to a programming error. The RSS allows you to build a completely new codeplug from scratch and write it to the radio, so even the most messed up programming job can easily be wiped clean. The EEprom that holds the codeplug is socketed, so the chip can always be pulled and replaced with a blank one also in extreme cases of read/write errors.

Yes, you need an old slow computer, 486 25Mhz is what i use, but anything of that vintage or older works fine. I have a 486 33Mhz that will program but won't verify, so i would have to guess that 25Mhz is a good rule of thumb, stay at that speed or slower for 100% reliable programming on the X9000.

But, the software is dirt cheap compared to other series. I know one guy that bought a copy of the latest version, only cost $75, that's a drop in the bucket compared to most RSS/CPS. However, in this case we are talking about ham band use, you need a special version of the RSS to program the ham band frequencies into the radio. It's out there, and that's all i will comment on it so nobody gets Moto Scared about mentioning it.

Eventually, and i have to ask Mike B how it's going, there will be a completely control head programmable X9000. He is working on a processor replacement for the X9000 series which will make it field programmable from the control head and basically a ham rig on steroids. Come to think of it i will have to email him now and ask how it's going on that project!
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CuriousGeorge
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Post by CuriousGeorge »

Speaking of the X9000... what's a reasonable price for an T-band X9000, with control head, drawer and cables? And how far can we go out-of-band? Ideally, 453-476 if we try to set it up as a base radio for its current owner or lower if I pick it up for amateur use.

I have the opportunity to buy one along with two T-band MT1000s (16 ch. and MDC front).

-g
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Post by EngineerZ »

While I have had a commercial amateur rig almost as long as I've been a ham, I've always owned Motorola radios for amateur use as well. My first rig was a slim-line HT220 with six, count-em, six channels (with the "secret service back" for those of you who were into the HT220...) My first mobile was an eight channel Micor. Fortunately nowadays, you don't have to resort to crystals to get Motorola radios relatively cheap.

I would agree with the others who recommend the MCX1000 for amateur use. IMHO, it's one of the best performing radios Motorola ever made. It was one of their last radios with a helical front end- kind of a drawback because it has to be manually tweaked for optimum performance. But as good as today's Motorola varactor-steered front-ends are, they still don't beat helicals in a high-intermod environment.

Another plus for the MCX1000 is that legit RSS is only $80 or so from Motorola. I don't believe Motorola scrutinzes potential purchases for older RSS as strictly as the newer software like CPS either. Of course as with pretty much all older Motorola radios, you do need an older DOS PC for programming.

As for handhelds, the HT600 and it's cousin the MT1000 are great solid radios. HT600s with the 136-162 MHz bandsplit come up on eBay from time to time. And the UHF units are *usually* the 438-470 MHz split, though be careful, there seems to be a lot of 403-430 Motorola radios flooding eBay these days.

If you've got money for relatively new radios, I have found the HT750 and CDM1250 with newer firmware to be pretty good. (Personnally though, I've always seemed to be a sucker for a VFD display, so I still tend to favor the Spectra, Syntor X9000, and of course the MCX1000 as I describe above.

--z
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Post by MrSmartNet »

For handheld VHF use I use a XTS5000R, great radio, and you don't really need a display, because you can setup voice tags. So you flip to a channel and it plays the sound file saying "HAM REPEATER 3."

Very cool. 8)

And, you can setup P25 simplex on ham bands.
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Post by kb3jkp »

spectra,hands down,especially since they're going for ~100$ nowadays..
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Post by kc8owl »

For your first /\/\ radios to use on the ham bands, it might be a good idea to stick with some good, basoc, and easy t operate radios before getting into the really cool (lots of features) radios.

For a mobile or base radio, a 32 ch. Maxtrac is hard to beat as a first radio because it performs very well, is easy to operate, and can be easily found for a reasonable price. Similarly, a GP300 makes a good basic HT that is also very easy to operate and is very easy to find.

Once you have a chance to play with them a while and get used to the features and limitations, you can always trade-up to something newer and more feature-rich. My first /\/\ HT was a 16 ch. GP300 that I used for 2m - it worked great. I still have the GP300 but now also have a number of System Saber III's that I think are awsome, but if it would have been the first /\/\ HT I had, it would have been way too much to work with at first.

Shortly after I bought my first Maxtrac I realized just how crappy most of the hammy gear is; there are a few good radios out there, but for the most part they are almost on the same level as toys (my opinion).

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Post by kb0nly »

The only thing i don't like about the Spectra, the dash mount 45w, is that you better say what you need to quickly because they get hot as heck with some yakking. I had to put a fan on the one i had, the heatsink would get hot enough that you sure as heck couldn't keep your fingers on it. Always made me worry about how hot it was after chatting a few times.

The X9000 is a larger chassis and dissipates the heat better. I have sat and chatted on one all evening and it only gets warm. But then i'm not running the full 100w, only 75w in the house and 90w on the mobile.
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wa2zdy
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Post by wa2zdy »

My Syntor X showed 135w on a few different meters, so I trusted that to be correct. With some long ragchews on the long commute to and from work, that rig never got more than warm. My GM300 n UHF on the other hand got really warm and even hot with just "reasonable" transmissions.

Heat can be an issue with Ma M rigs - they were meant for short transmissions, ala police and taxi drivers.
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Post by kb0nly »

I cranked up a 110w X9000 just to see what it would do with a few short transmissions into a 200w dummy load. I got about 130w out, so that seems to be about there limit. Though i wouldn't run one there for long.
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Post by Josh »

I enjoy my spectras as well, the 16 MPL feature is nice to have for hamming purposes.

As far as the heat-sink goes, I have a UHF Spectra (running around 20 watts) as a repeater and it goes up to about 50% duty and stays at a reasonable temperature.... not that I'd be too worried about blowing it up anyhow since they're cheap and I've got a spare PA or two to throw around.

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MCX1000 Scan List Size

Post by RFdude »

The MCX1000 can have ALL 128 channels in ONE scan list. Newer radios seem to limit the scan lists (zones) into groups of 16 channels or so. Nice when you taking long drives down the highway to new places. FAST PLL board makes scanning all 128 channels very quick (can't remember the exact cycle time, but folks barely start talking and the the radio is on them).

Do any of the newer Motorola radios allow such large scan lists?

RF Dude.
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Post by kb0nly »

The MCX and X9000 are the only ones i know that can do that large of a scan list and do it quickly.

My X9000 is scanning about 120ch now, and i barely miss more than a couple syllables of a conversation.
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Post by George »

It sounds like most of the important points are covered, but I will mention that the X9000 can support up to 32 MPL assignments IF you have a hacked profile in the first place. You can't build it unless you have the software that was set up for defaulting to to 32 assignments. Personally I would like to have a few more so I can have all common PL and some random DPL codes.

As for scanning, the X9000 is lightning fast. Don't know how it compares to the MCX1000, but I know I can scan 128 channels very quickly because I have one scan list that has over 100 channels in it and it works fine.

I still say the X9000 is the best overall radio for amateur use and despite having to use two pieces of software to program, is one notch better than the Spectra. Sorry Spectra guys, but the X9000 doesn't have any of the issues of leaky caps and circuit board eating acid that the Spectra does.

The only two points I will concede to Spectra is having all of the options built in that require add-on boards for an X9000 and Spectra covers 144-174 in range two, something the x9000 doesn't do. Specs on Spectra are excellent for receive all the way across the band without degradation. A Spectra will get warm to hot in ragchew mode. X9000 will barely get warm.

YMMV, but this entire decision is based upon what you are trying to do with your radio. If you want something that is basic, CDM, Maxtrac and MXC1000 are very good solid choices. If you want high power with good features, Spectra is good. If you want something that has almost no limits, then the X9000 is best because, since I don't know where I am going to be next, I support up to almost 1000 channels with 32 MPL's and have the full 110 watts with the ability to hear flies buzzing around the repeater antenna.

What's best for me may not be best for you, but then again, I have always taken things to an obscene extreme.

George
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Post by kb0nly »

I'm with ya there George!

I now have a lowband, VHF, and UHF, X9000 in the mobile. A X9000 VHF in the house, and soon to join it another UHF.

The scan on them is fast, i second that. I barely miss a thing due to scan time to go through all the channels programmed.

Lot's of choices, just depends on what you need it for. Of course, let me also add that for a beginner it might be a whole lot easier just to buy a ham rig and be done with it. But i have not been impressed with some of the latest models, to many menus and crap to set. I want a program and go radio with big power and hot receive, so the X9000 fits the bill for me. There is also the added benefit that i have a radio that can be used for both commercial and amateur band transmit legally.
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Post by kg6bki »

I have a Astro Saber 3 Vhf that I use the most...I have it set for MODAT on the local repeaters and people know when im on and what radio that I am using....also works great on Business Band Freqs and MURS.Cost me alot of money but also going to be my work radio here in a lil bit..so I see it as a wise investment...also for UHF I have a MTS2000 403-470mhz and it works like a beauty for UHF Repeaters and Such :)
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Post by Rayjk110 »

HT1000's are nice, too. Probably the most common HT I see aroud at hamfests and such are them. Programming is pretty easy too, if you cana get cables, etc.

If you are willing to spend around $350-400, you can always get a JT1000 (Looks like a full keypad/front display MTS2000, but is field [FPP] progrmmable up to 16 channels with PL/DPL...but lack MDC/STAR/QC signalling types I believe)
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Post by George »

The reason I got into Motorola radios was that back in 1989, yes, that long ago, I was getting really fed up with all the amateur VHF and UHF equipment that simply didn't have the features I wanted.

I was told I was asking too much to have things like scan lists per mode, a scan system that was fast and did a proper priority sample that was fast and would not let me miss anything. I wanted power out to get to the repeater that I could hear and have a receiver with a preamp that made up for repeaters that I could not hear as well. The concept of names per channel was new to me but was cute none the less. Giving up my S meter was hard, but I got over it.

Bottom line is I ordered a one of a kind SP radio in 1989, a high power range one VHF X9000 with a preamp. After I did the programming and made database records (Keep in mind my profession is doing translations and routing in telephone company digital switching equipment like 5ESS, DMS100 and DCO) I expanded my collection to include a new range two UHF X9000. Eventually I added a low band X9000 to the UHF and ran both of them off one head. I have had that installation since about 1991 or 1992. Then all of this was duplicated in another car and still another. I have two cars, both 1983 Park Avenues, that are set up identically with three X9000s, VRS on the VHF and a PAC-RT split between the UHF and low band radio. I would not have it any other way.

All this is because I was tired and fed up with the stupid features of amateur equipment back then. They would have one good feature and break another. Fix this and add something else and you still don't have what you want. I was working Azden pcs-2000 with one PL code, blew up three power amp chips and went to Icom with their 4700 and finally the 28A/H line. They had select PL on the fly, but goofy programming and no lockout scan list.

I gave the Icoms to my father and went ahead with X9000 and have never looked back.

As for what's on my belt, athough off topic, I have a VHF and UHF Visar, VHF HT1550, UHF MTS2000, VHF MT2000 and UHF EX600. Oh and I could mention my first Motorola portable was a 99 channel MT1000. Because I sold that radio, I acquired a 16 channel MT1000 that looks just like it. Okay, so I am a bit soft about selling things sometimes, but I had a charger and needed a radio to match. Make sense? Does to me, but like I said before, I have taken some things to an extreme beyond...well..beyond something.

I still say one cannot go wrong with an X9000. CDM is a fine product and so is Spectra. The Spectra is probably the easiest to work with for programming and I have not worked on a MCX1000, but it lookes like an early relative to a Spectra A4.

I still say Long live X9000!

George
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