P25 for Ham Radio

[MrSmartNet]

Ok, so I have an XTS5000R that I love using.

One of the local ham clubs currently has a UHF repeater, but is in need of buying a new repeater. I'm trying to persuade the club to go P25. Any of you guys have a P25 ham repeater in your area?


Which is the best repeater for this job? Any other ideas?

Right now I just use P25 on National Simplex locally...

[VE9MP]

Not that I'm trying to sway you away from buying a Digital Qauntar/Quantro or similiar, but expect to pay big bucks for one.

If you really want a real repeater:
-Quantar
-Quantro


All of these will do P25....

A cheaper alternative is to use modified "back to back" Maxtracs, which is considerably less expensive to say the least.

Too bad there wasn't more people like you on ham radio, people go nuts here when they hear anything out of the ordinary.

Edited by VE9MP, Apparently I can't think straight today

[VE9MP]

I forgot about Daniels Clicky

[akardam]

Since when will a MSF5000 do P25?

[VE9MP]

Crap.

What was I thinking lol

[batdude]

since when does an MTR do P25?


you have two choices


Quantar

Quantro


expect to pay around $3000+ for a quantar... $6000+ for a quantro



doug

[n7maq]

Here in the Portland area we have a Micor on UHF that has been set up to pass flat audio. It works great with P25, and D-Star. I'm not the one who did it, so I can give any details other than it works great. It's on a good hill, at a good site.

I also have a Quantar on two meters running mixed mode, no D-Star, but oh well. If you want a VHF Quantar, let me know, I have a BUNCH to get rid of.

73,

Jim.

[W6JK]

K6CCC has a P25 repeater on Mt. Thom in Glendale, CA. It's a private repeater, unless you have P25. For further details:

http://www.k6ccc.org/k6ccc-r.html

'JK

[N4DES]

I have a Quantar on order the 147.360 in Palm Beach County, FL. and the 146.790 that is located at the Motorola Plant in Plantation is being upgraded to Astro according to one of the engineers that I'm friends with down there.

[ka8ypy]

Ok, so I have an XTS5000R that I love using.

One of the local ham clubs currently has a UHF repeater, but is in need of buying a new repeater. I'm trying to persuade the club to go P25. Any of you guys have a P25 ham repeater in your area?


Which is the best repeater for this job? Any other ideas?

Right now I just use P25 on National Simplex locally...

Looking at trying to do the same thing here in DC area.

Dan
KA8YPY

[MrSmartNet]

Wish I could get together about 30 hams to split the cost around the metro atlanta area. I'd love a P25 ham repeater.

Why are hams so behind in the times? They don't want to look forward!

[MattSR]

If anyone has a Quantar they want to sell, Im looking to buy!

[MTS2000des]

Parham,

I would harldly say that hams are "behind the times" per se. As a matter of fact, radio amateurs pioneered many of the commercial technologies we take for granted today such as:

The concept of trunking

Packet Data including packet radio (first done by hams in the late 70's and 80's)

APRS

Digital radio over long distance HF

and most recently, the concept of VoiP radio network linking, well before Motorola decided to introduce Motobridge, hams in Canada and the US had IRLP up and running, this was before the "interoperability" craze of the post 9-11 era.

While I like P25 and think it's a cool mode, I still dont' see how it "advances" anything over conventional FM voice for amateur radio. D-Star, OTOH, is an IP based network system that blows P25 out of the water as far as technical advancement. It, BTW, was developed as an open standard by the JARL (by hams for hams) as a standard for digital radio networks in amateur radio. With D-Star, you and I can hold a conversation anywhere on the worldwide network (much like Smartzone Omnilink) as each radio has an IP address. A central server dictates authentication and routes calls accordingly. Only recently have commercial vendors (including Motorola) begin to develop and deploy IP based subscriber units. D-Star was here first.

P25 conventional is just another available mode. It does nothing that conventional FM can't do, it's just digital. I don't see it as any more advanced when compared to something such as D-Star, IRLP or even digital HF. I mean, who can you talk to on P25 that you can't talk to regular FM? It doesn't do anything spectacular that FM can't. Sure, it's digital, it sounds a little cleaner...but then again, so do my GMRS bubble packs with compandered audio and they only cost 30 bucks a pair at Wal-Mart.

Most hams around Atlanta aren't interested in the local VHF/UHF scene, as they are mostly HF'ers and those of us that are active on the upper bands are more interested in deploying repeaters that we can talk to more than just a couple of folks on.

Most of us got into ham radio to meet with and talk to other people. That is the point right?

[RESCUE161]

Parham,

I thought you were talking to me there for a minute...lol That's my last name too.

[MrSmartNet]

Most of us got into ham radio to meet with and talk to other people. That is the point right?

Thats not at all what I was saying. What I find really interesting is that every time I bring up digital comms, whether its P25, Dstar, whatever...hams just up and down screaming that I don't want to talk to everyone.

That isn't the case. I do want to talk to people, however...I want to move on in this day and age and use what I personally feel is a better way to communicate.

And why P25? Well, its an industry standard, and because I prefer Motorola gear.

[MTS2000des]

D-Star is an industry standard, Tetra is an industry standard...you like Motorola gear and that's great, but not every ham can afford 4800 dollars for an HT, 500 dollars for CPS (assuming they can get the license), and add another 700 bucks for a factory RIB and cable. yeah yeah, we all know people pirate s/w, use homebuilt cables...just putting the facts on the line. So yeah, the "average ham" looks at is as a useless invenstment when he/she could take that same 5 grand and talk on:

HF thru UHF, all modes, all bands
A nice dual band HT
A nice dual band mobile (even a digital one, have you seen the Icom DStar dual bander? Alot of radio for 600 bucks)...


There are many of us here in Atlanta who are trying to get 900 up and running. Unlike P25, 900 is a cheap, readily available band that has interesting characterisitcs. Mostly Motorola gear like you like to use, but there's a bigger problem:

Cliques. Repeater group A (who has a working, well maintained 900 repeater on a certain mountaintop) has no interest in hooking up with Repeater group C downtown or Group B out in Gwinnett area...for what reasons I don't know. Group A has been invited, emails sent, even approached at a hamfest. They aren't interested. P25, like 900, will only be a success when people get together and build networks (linked repeaters). It's sad because we all have a plethora of Motorola equipment. I own two MTS2000 900's, one is NOS, and an MCS2000. Others I know inhereited 5 MSF5000 repeaters...complete with duplexers and all...and they even sited one downtown. But when the subject of linking systems comes up, people suddenly lose interest. Note these are the SAME folks who are always complaining "I wish there was more activity on 900"...I don't get it...

But until some people lose their puffed up attitude and superiority complex no one is going to succeed. We are all licensed amateurs and we can't make it without each other. this goes for P25 or any other mode of the future as well. I would love to talk to someone else on 900 besides myself and use more than one machine to do it but until people overcome their differences (most of which are petty in nature) it isn't gonna happen.

[tvsjr]

But until some people lose their puffed up attitude and superiority complex no one is going to succeed. We are all licensed amateurs and we can't make it without each other. this goes for P25 or any other mode of the future as well. I would love to talk to someone else on 900 besides myself and use more than one machine to do it but until people overcome their differences (most of which are petty in nature) it isn't gonna happen.

Bahahaha, yeah, right. Tell me another one.

[N4DES]

D-Star is an industry standard, Tetra is an industry standard...you like Motorola gear and that's great, but not every ham can afford 4800 dollars for an HT, 500 dollars for CPS (assuming they can get the license), and add another 700 bucks for a factory RIB and cable. yeah yeah, we all know people pirate s/w, use homebuilt cables...just putting the facts on the line. So yeah, the "average ham" looks at is as a useless invenstment when he/she could take that same 5 grand and talk on:

D-Star an idustry standard? Since when? There is only one manufacturer making the radios so it can't be called widely accepted or an industry standard yet.

As to P-25, Icom, Vertex, Motorola, and Kenwood are just some of the manufacturers that make P-25 VHF and UHF radios right now with prices that are comparable with Icom's D-Star assortment. While I do agree with what you said about about Moto's software requirements, this is ham radio so cables and/or RIB should be no challange to someone who can use a soldering iron and can follow directions listed on this site if they want to build their own or they can buy a radio from one of the other mnfgs. that I listed above and buy their cable & software package.

[1 Adam 12]

Well D-Star is currently only available in a infrastructure supported role in one band and the radios for the particular band are a grand plus for the mobile, with no HT available. There is currently quite a few of plain jane CAI and CAI radios on the market and they are all selling from $300-$600 dollars. And unless ICOM starts pumping out the VHF and UHF repeaters, I don't think its gonna make a lot of headway.
As to the issues with the other clubs and groups.. trust me your not alone.. and most of the olddr hams here absolutely freak when you mention 900MHZ, hell most think 6 meters is evil..
And the groups that are trying to push the 900 have even gone so far as to offer to modify and tune radios and to make offer to buy in bulk for better deals... and its still like pulling teeth. I will add this .. don't be suprised if you start see a CAI option in the next year available in an amateur radio market within the next year or so...

[xmo]

TIMEOUT!

This discussion board is for Motorola equipment related topics and furthermore, this focused discussion forum is for Astro equipment.

D-star, 900 MHz, dragging your ham buddies into the 21st century, and other BS about what hams have or have not done to contribute to the state of the art does not belong here.

If you want to get back to the original topic we can leave this thread unlocked.

[mam1081]

So any or all Quantar or Quantros are able to pass IMBE?

I have been wondering if you need to look for a certain DSP or something - like on the HT/Mobiles for P25.

If so, one would just need the quantar/ro repeater with what options? I've seen some for sale with wireline cards and all that stuff. What is the minimum someone would require to get a stand-alone APCO-25 repeater on the ham band?

[N4DES]

The Quantar/Quantro has to be configured for IMBE and there are some "analog only" quantars out there.

Getting the codeplug would be the easiest way to tell.

[MrSmartNet]

The biggest issue holding back our ham club is they were looking for a repeater that was both P25 and Analog ready. So everyone could talk on it without having to do anything to the repeater all the time.