To all law enforcement from someone who owns a AstroSaber 3

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:49 pm

Radio confiscation stories http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5756

in responce to the messages in the above post - i have the following to say...

I know a lot of cops read these messages, and are members of this forum... maybe they can spread the word to other officers about scanner and radio laws and educate each other.

Also - digital is not encrypted, anyone can LEGALLY listen...

just because my radio has an encryption module does not mean i can listen to anyones encrypted messages... One needs the ACTUAL ENCRYPTION KEY from the person(s)/agency radio system they are attepting to listen to... there are millions of codes...

cops need to know ANYONE can get the Motorola Astro Saber III Radio, from private parties, Ebay,or directly from motorola...

*Anyone who is willing to pay the price, can legally buy ANY RADIO with or without a encryption module*

Again i mean no dis-respect...i have a few LAPD officers as my friend for MANY years, and would do anything to help ANY LAPD or LAFD officer in my area... (well, any law enforcement officer, or firefighter...) even the ones that have given me a hard time. I know cops have a hard job, and SOME but not all people use the radios for unlawful things, but most of us here have FEDERAL PERMITS (FCC) to use these radios. I have a GMRS permit, and am in the middle of getting a amatur radio permit, and use my personal radio for work, and carry around a copy of that permit, along w/ proof of employment from the same company that the FCC license is issued to.

if i was in to unlawful activities, i would not ask the federal government for a permit to broadcast my messages on a specific set of frequencies...

***LET US ALL COMMUNICATE TO HELP RESOLVE SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS***

metro121 · Post by **metro121** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:06 am

The problem is not that you are listening to your local police dept and they are going to bust you for that. It is what you are using to listen to them to.

I am sure most officers know you can buy a radio that looks and acts like thiers but they are also aware that they have many of these radios missing and when they see you carring one and here police traffic comming out of it, they have every legal right to check it out to verify its legality such as ownership and transmit abilities.

In the State of California Penal Code, if an electronic device such as a two way radio, cellphone, walkman, CD player ect, falls into the hands of a duly sworn peace officer and the there is no visible means of an original factory ID tag on it, the officer may confiscate the item and book it as evidence until it can be determined if the serial # has been alterd by someone other than the originating factory or company .

I am also sure that many agencies have had problems one time or another with someone ilegally transmitting on thier dispatch channels and causing interference. I have seen and and heard a few on this board that program the TX capabilties into thier radios.
again, if an officer comes into contact with such a device , even if he knows you are the legal owner, it is still a crime to own a device that will IMMEDIATLY transmit on a public service frequency without proper authorisition. I know that FCC allows this practice in a life and death situation when there is no other means of communicating to a local agency for help but come on, lets get real here.

I could continue on and on with legalities and the law but the bottom line is if you are going to practice this hobby in regards to using actual two way radios, use some common sence and keep it under your hat. Do not show it off on the street waving it around challenging the local police that you know more than they do. You don' t and you end up loosing in the long run. And keep the TX capabilities turned off and completely disabled if possible. At least if you are questioned and your radio is checked out, you have swon them that you have taken every possible means to keep the radop from causing intereference with thier traffic and your intent was only to listen.

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 6:52 am

I am in total agreement with Metro121, don't flaunt a radio that is capable of RX on Law Enforcement channels, if you do you are asking to be questioned. For the people that have the TX side of LE channels in the radios then you are asking for real trouble, I have never heard of the FCC defending you in a court of law.

You need to use the common sense rule and be DESCREET.

Radio is a wonderfull hobby in all forms, and police work is a great prfession, don't ruin the radio hobby and respect the police, they have a job to do. In my 25 yrs of involvement in LE I have never had ANY problems owning radio capable of RX or for that matter TX. I carry the radio in my back pocket not on my belt and don't walk around with it blasting away, I keep the volume at a low level and never use a speaker mic, that is what draws attention.

Think like a police office and carry your radio like they carry guns off duty, Hidden as much as possible.

Metradio · Post by **Metradio** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:16 am

Someone who goes and buys an Astro Saber to listen to their local Police did not buy it to be discreet...

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:58 am

I've seen many radios (several hundred per year)in property clerk inventory and can tell you while some are found property many have evidence markings on them meaning
they're crime evidence. Yes, many of us carry radios for job and hobby
applications but carry a slim jim (legal to posess in many juristications)near a bunch of cars and see if you don't come under some pretty intense
scrutiny. While many activities are not in them self illegal ,suspicions are
aroused under many circumstances. We pay these folks to check out suspicious activity and I think you'll find the vast majority of these folks
acting in good faith.

ricciticcitembo · Post by **ricciticcitembo** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:53 am

I completely agree with metro121 uspss and radio south. Thats what i do too. Haven't had a problem now for over 10 years, and probably never will. Dont worry. You'll learn. Eventually....[/url]

And haven't we just about beaten this topic to death already?

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:08 am

what about if there is no police traffic comming out of it?? what if we are on a GMRS, HAM, or Business frequency??? what if the astro saber III is not even on the same band as local police (neighbor has a VHF radio, PD uses UHF, his has all stickers and still got it taken, according to the police report, it was taken because 1) it is digital, and 2) it has an encryption module.... anyone care to explain that to me??
BTW - all my tags are on the radio, but the case is cracked... i just received a new case in the mail today - no more factory stickers... what is gonna happen now???
My radio has all its channels, except pd in one zone, and the pd is in its own zone as RECEIVE ONLY - the cops that took it from me did not even know how to change the zone...they had NO clue it had their channels in it... how they found out is they used RSS to read the radio after they took it from me...

Also -according to one of the the Watch commanders at LAPD - only 12 Astro radios are outstanding/missing from the batch that was taken... that is not a lot....

metro121 wrote:The problem is not that you are listening to your local police dept and they are going to bust you for that. It is what you are using to listen to them to.

I am sure most officers know you can buy a radio that looks and acts like thiers but they are also aware that they have many of these radios missing and when they see you carring one and here police traffic comming out of it, they have every legal right to check it out to verify its legality such as ownership and transmit abilities.

In the State of California Penal Code, if an electronic device such as a two way radio, cellphone, walkman, CD player ect, falls into the hands of a duly sworn peace officer and the there is no visible means of an original factory ID tag on it, the officer may confiscate the item and book it as evidence until it can be determined if the serial # has been alterd by someone other than the originating factory or company .

I am also sure that many agencies have had problems one time or another with someone ilegally transmitting on thier dispatch channels and causing interference. I have seen and and heard a few on this board that program the TX capabilties into thier radios.
again, if an officer comes into contact with such a device , even if he knows you are the legal owner, it is still a crime to own a device that will IMMEDIATLY transmit on a public service frequency without proper authorisition. I know that FCC allows this practice in a life and death situation when there is no other means of communicating to a local agency for help but come on, lets get real here.

I could continue on and on with legalities and the law but the bottom line is if you are going to practice this hobby in regards to using actual two way radios, use some common sence and keep it under your hat. Do not show it off on the street waving it around challenging the local police that you know more than they do. You don' t and you end up loosing in the long run. And keep the TX capabilities turned off and completely disabled if possible. At least if you are questioned and your radio is checked out, you have swon them that you have taken every possible means to keep the radop from causing intereference with thier traffic and your intent was only to listen.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:14 am

I gotta brain buster...

i had a XTS3000 before i sold it, so i can get my Astro Saber III
i had LAPD channels in it, RX and TX (I never TX'ed) Cops heard and saw the radio all the time, they would look at it, and keep on going - NEVER got stopped

i have a MTS2000 radio w/ City of LA trunking and LAFD channels - never got stopped...

I have a ANALOG Saber III and a Astro Saber III -- cops see it, then i get stopped, they even took my ANALOG radio before because it looked like theirs (Duh.. the top row of buttons are RED, and there are 3 not 6 of them.. and the display is different..)

i dont mind being stopped and questioned - i mind them taking the radio from me and refusing to give it back after i produce all the paperwork and original box, and bill of sale..

hmmmmmmmm

Cell God · Post by **Cell God** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:58 pm

First of all (and this not using or making an excuse) ever since 9/11 everyone is on edge with communications. Second I can see where a cop gets a little nervous when they see a radio with the traffic blarring out of it and you are not with any agency that you can talk on it legally with.

I work for a two-way communications company near the twin cities (aka Mnpls/St. Paul) and even the police depts we service do not like the ideal of us having there freqs in it, even just transmitting.

As my very trust worthy Cap. of the Police Dept said to me, as well as Chief of Communications of the Dept said about this:

"We do not care if you listen to our traffic, or transmissions. If we use coded and you listen then we might get made, but if you can decode it congrats you should be able to listen. Ha ha ha....."

"The concern we have is that if someone is out there with a two way radio but it only has the RX in it ok. But, what stops that person from hacking and then some day jamming or transmitting on our channel?? Some people are trustworthy but some people, sadly, are not. Freqs are not private, they are public knowledge, and it is not hard to get PL, or DPL's at all. Hell scanners can decode them these days!! What if we get hacked, or the twin cities get a hacker again???"

*Note the twin cities here had someone cross patching agencies to different agencies and this person was finally caught.*

"So keep your radio private, and if a cop gives you a hard time, BY ALL MEANS DO NOT GIVE HIM ONE BACK. Work with him, take him into your house or to somewhere that has RSS abilites and read and show him whats in there, and if you have freqs you are not suppose to then you screwed up in some peoples opinions. In mine keep it quiet, and if you belong to radio orgainizations show your license/id's (Amateur Call, GMRS license, business license, etc..) are you not suppose to have a copy of your license where ever you transmiter is at?? Is not a portable a transmitter."

This is what was told to me and I am relaying. It's not fair I will agree but this is the breaks.

As if the cops come to take a Ham Radio away which is not type accepted to do anything above 147.995Mhz then show and prove it to them. If they take it away call the ARRL, or ACLU, or an Attorney someone cause if you try to take on the law by yourself these days since 9/11 you WILL GET SHOT DOWN. Remember sadly ALL cops are not radio savy, but some are and those are the ones that will not cause problems unless you do first.
Also remember cops carry usually big radios (to them) such as Sabers, XTS's, etc... and if they see some smaller radios they sometimes get like kids and want to play with the smaller newer toys.

- Cell God

jwood · Post by **jwood** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 6:12 pm

USPSS wrote: Think like a police officer and carry your radio like they carry guns off duty, Hidden as much as possible.

I Agree with the above, someday one will walk into an area with the police playing on the radio, and before you no it you just got shot by the drug dealer on the corner!

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 6:24 pm

That was my whole point you can get hurt also, if your not a cop and you have a radio that looks like a cops, talks like a cops and walks like a cop, then you must be a cop in the dirtbags eyes, so bang your dead or hurt.

evoc1998 · Post by **evoc1998** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:24 am

Chad,

You have won the bonehead award from LAPD and are being targeted because you are inviting trouble. The rest of it is just harrasment because of your "friend" having to get your radio back from patrol. Who wants someone dropping favors and coming into the station to get back your property. The only reason they gave up the radio was because your "friend" is "one of our own" and the fact they were wrong and knew it when they confiscated your radio. Each LA radio is distinctively marked, but obviously can be recased easily.

Good Luck and stay low...

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 1:11 am

Its simple,
An officer sees a radio that looks "just like" or close to the one he has on his hip. They dont know anything about bands,freqs,modules,antenna lengths ar anything. They are just thinking "Stolen LAPD Radio" because the thinking is: We (LAPD ) are the only ones who have astros around here. If you had an HT1000 ot something..they would probably think.."construction radio" or something. Its all about perception and "Just doesnt look right" thinking.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 5:16 am

evoc1998 wrote:Chad,

You have won the bonehead award from LAPD and are being targeted because you are inviting trouble. The rest of it is just harrasment because of your "friend" having to get your radio back from patrol. Who wants someone dropping favors and coming into the station to get back your property. The only reason they gave up the radio was because your "friend" is "one of our own" and the fact they were wrong and knew it when they confiscated your radio. Each LA radio is distinctively marked, but obviously can be recased easily.

Good Luck and stay low...

how am i inviting trouble..?? because i own a astro saber, and a analog saber?? and use them for other things besides listening to LAPD.?? i dont even listen that often... only when i hear the helecopter in my area...
and if it wasnt for my friend, i would not have a radio now... neither would 2 others in my neighborhood, and god knows how many others there are out there... if i has looking for trouble, i would not have looked for a radio w/ the original serial# tag, i would not have called the station and asked about their policy about someone owning a Astro radio, and asked them if the serial# was clean before i purchased the radio (the person that i spoke with had no idea who i was, and they even faxed me a list of the dispatch frequencies)
I owned my analog saber for over 10 years... cops see me with it all the time and did not say anything...UNTIL a few years ago when they got there astro radios...it seems some cops can not tell the difference from a analog and a digital saber (different display, different color buttones, etc...)

BTW - my friend (who is a retired detective) is leaving California soon, so i better keep my radio in my house, and spend $2000 on a XTS3000 so i can use it for work, sicne they use C4FM digital w/ DES-OFB encryption

cops have seen me w/ a xts3000, and heard police calls comming from it and DID NOTHING because it did not look like a saber...hmmmmmm

AGAIN - i do not mind being stopped and questioned (as i have the original packaging, paperwork, bill of sale, and the original flashcode/serial#/fccid stickers on my radio... i do mind having my property stolen...

an reminder - of the 80+ astro sabers stolen from the lapd, less than 12 are still outstanding... maybe it is time they move on...

jwood · Post by **jwood** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:02 am

Could it have been an ASTROSABER 3 ?

Robbery Suspect Leaves Bag In Bank

Reported by: 9News
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
Photographed by: 9News
6/6/02 4:06:54 PM

There were some scary moments for some Mt. Lookout bank employees Thursday morning.
Police said a man walked into the Bank One on Delta Avenue and handed a teller a note demanding money. He took off with some cash but left the bag on the counter.

Police thought there may have been a bomb inside of the bag, but later discovered it was a Motorola 2-way radio.

The suspect is described as a white male with a beard who is in his late 30's.

BDB · Post by **BDB** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 1:56 pm

Having an Astro Saber as a personal radio would be kinda neat but to be honest I wouldn't be crazy about the attention it would draw. You run the risk of not only harassment but theft or being mistaken for someone you're not. If I had one I'd be low profile about it - it's just common sense. As a Ham and a co -owner of a GMRS repeater the Astros really offer no benefit worth the expense to a regular Saber. They would be cool to monitor with but I wouldn't be cruising around doing that.

wiliki46 · Post by **wiliki46** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:54 pm

I wonder how much the bank robber made off with. If it was an Astro Saber III probably could have gotten more selling the thing on ebay than the robbery. About ten years ago I read in a gun magazine a guy committed a robbery with a pistol worth more than the cash he got.

whatnext · Post by **whatnext** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:15 pm

Sorry to inform the "Informed" but LOCAL jurisdictions DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY to enforce FCC rules .. ASK BALTIMORE COUNTY MARYLAND..Multiple injuctions issued against county radio officials for this exact situation..County GURU's THOUGHT they could play FED and they LOST...Be Careful, Case history is now avalible for the defendant !!

USPSS · Post by **USPSS** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:24 pm

This information is true, but why would anyone wnat to get the radio taken and possible go to jail to be vindicated later by case law.

A reasonable person would bo everything to NOT get into that situation.

Basically, go out and taunt the police and end up in JAIL, play smart and enjoy life.

The police are NOT after your radio or you they are only (at best) curious, but if you flaunt it then look out.
Unfortunatly there are a few bad apples everywhere and that could land you in jail for BREATHING.

So just be cool

jwood · Post by **jwood** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:52 pm

whatnext wrote: Sorry to inform the "Informed" but LOCAL jurisdictions DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY to enforce FCC rules

What FCC Rules are you talking about? Licensing? antenna height? out of band txing? jamming police,fire,gmrs,hamradio communications? rxing encripted public service communications? having a radio in your possesion during a Felony, what? Each State Laws are different... Here in Ohio all the above plus many many more so called FCC "RULES" are arrestable by a local Police Officer. "Offences" or known by many as "LAWS" of the State ..

RCVMO · Post by **RCVMO** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:58 pm

I am formerly a Local Law Enforcement agency Motortransport and Radio tech. I am also victim of the wonderful virtues of "INTERNAL AFFAIRS".
What I did for my former dept. was right by introducing them to the wonderful world of MUTAL AID AND INTEROPERABLILTY.
Unfortunatley, when the dept. tech has a better radio than the rest of that dept. , one had to wonder. Sure they always thought something was kinda strange when they were carrying around ancient MT500's and Ht600's., and I was carrying an HT1000.
My philosophy is that when these LEO's train in school, they should have aquite a bit more training on different types of communications and what type of people aroiund them use for commo, wether it be business, EMS, fire, HAM RADIO. ETC. Not to knock Ham radio, but while working in the field, I saw quite a few times , hams showing up at different incidents and tragedy's. And then a couple of them were spotted and observed and tried to interfere, and guess where their radio ended up? I knew some of them and was able to sweet talk the admin and get their radio back, with little or no flack or repercussion. I now work for a larger city, and take on a different route of communications where if LEO's actually saw what public transit utilizes these days, they'd want that too.
These incidents not only happened ater 9-11, but way long before. As many of my relatives are somewhere, shape, or form associated with Public safety somewhere, I will always have respect for them as well as what I do in my community and elsewhere. Some of them like to get a little nuts when it comes to something like this. It depends on where and when you went to school for LEO training.
If you have the money for sophisticated communcations like a Saber or Xts radio, God Bless ya. My advise is don't flaunt it around like"YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, OR i KNOW A SECRET!" What goes around comes around.
I certainly knew when I was being watched shortly before my termination with my dept. I do know that there were some circumstances that were totally illegal on their ends as well. They lost a good tech, I lost 1 months pay and a couple sleepless nights. It's the vicious three ring circus out there, ever more so now than ever. Good luck to any and all of you in the future regarding listening to digital communications. It'll be a rough ride for the time being, and everybody's on edge. A little bit more knowledge on their end in regards to communications and maybe we won't have to see forums like this or have to spend millions of tax-payers dollars tied up in court cost and attorney fees.
Good Luck.
Jimmy

963Expert · Post by **963Expert** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 8:15 pm

I live in Arizona which is still part of the old west. Anyone over the age of 18 can legally carry a firearm in public. But, if you were to climb up on top of your house with a legally owned high powered rifle and just sat up there, chances are someone is going to call the cops.

Now, you may legally own the rifle. It may be your house, you may have no intent whatsoever to fire that rifle at anyone (unless there was an FCC emergency of course). I'm willing to bet that no court in the land would have a problem if your gun got taken away from you for a short period of time. I'm also willing to bet any amount of money that you'd probably get it taken away at gunpoint.

Now relate that to your radio. If your getting stopped for having a radio, chances are that your probably flaunting somewhere. Just as the gun may be unloaded, if your radio doesn't transmit, then the Officer who's taking it away knows you can easily load it or make it transmit. We all know that you can easily put TX defeat on many radios. Heck, I've been working with radios for 30 years and it would take me having to read out your radio to tell you for sure if it will transmit or not. So it would be a little hard for the average cop to determine that or take your word for it out on the streets.

As far as LAPD only missing 12 radios, that's about 12 too many. (I could relate that to the gun issue as well, but I won't). If LAPD is only missing 12, thats pretty good, but multiply that by the thousands of agencies across the country that are missing radios. If I found a radio out on the streets, I'm thinking I'd check it out to see if it were stolen.

Bottom line is - don't flaunt it, don't have it transmit, when in doubt, leave it at home.

Just my thoughts.
Kel

April · Post by **April** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:36 pm

I realy belive that Chad needs to grow-up and mature a lot. I know I will catch the wrath for this, but that is the only way to avoid the problem he has created. Chad, I hope you saved all the old case
your radio was in and you need to send all of it to Motorola and they will re-case it and apply the correct lables IF it is not LSS. (Lost, Stryed or Stolen). I Cali it IS illegal to posess a electronic device with the serial number/tag(s) missing.
And I check EVERY radio if I belive that the radio has questionable heritage. You will be suprised what is out there.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 7:30 am

April wrote:I realy belive that Chad needs to grow-up and mature a lot. I know I will catch the wrath for this, but that is the only way to avoid the problem he has created. Chad, I hope you saved all the old case
your radio was in and you need to send all of it to Motorola and they will re-case it and apply the correct lables IF it is not LSS. (Lost, Stryed or Stolen). I Cali it IS illegal to posess a electronic device with the serial number/tag(s) missing.
And I check EVERY radio if I belive that the radio has questionable heritage. You will be suprised what is out thre.

i have the old case... and if you read my all of complete messages...you would see i get the same crap from PD with my ANALOG saber III radio (which has ALL stickers) as i do w/ my astro. I DO NOT FLAUNT IT...i do use it for frequencies im authorized to use, some of which are digital and encrypted, so my 2 choices here are either a Astro Saber or a XTS3000. I perfered the saber, if feels like a stronger radio. I DO KNOW if i kept the xts3000 i would have no problems with PD because if there heard police calls from it, they would look at it, and see it did not look like there radio, and kept going. before i purchased my Astro Saber, i called my local police department, gave them ALL the info (SN/MODEL#/FLASHCODE/ETC..) and explained i wanted to buy it, it has all the stickers, box, manual, paperwork, etc... the person i spoke with (a watch commander) called downtown to the Information and Technology Dept to check the Serial# out (and checked her computer at the station)... then called me back and told me it is a clean radio. I personally think SOME of the cops around here need to grow up. I purchased a radio that i use for GMRS and for Business frequencies at work, NOT FOR LISTENING TO PD...again: i do not mind being stopped and questioned...I DO MIND HAVING MY PROPERTY (THAT I LEGALLY PURCHASED) TAKEN FROM ME.
if the radio was hot, motorola WOULD NOT HAVE returned it to me after i sent it in to depot for a new display board.

As far as the serial#, it is on the OLD case which is on my desk, and the serial# can also be displayed onscreen and via RSS. (i have not been stopped since i changed the case, which i paid $30 for...I AM NOT GONNA PAY $100+ FOR MOTOROLA TO DO IT. I have seen MANY recased devices (cell phones, pagers, etc...) The pager comapny here recases all pagers and cellphones w/ cases with their logo on it, opps.. NO MORE SERIAL# ON THE CASE..

*** the thing that makes me mad is the LAPD officers i came into contact with (about 20+ officers) state it is unlawful for a private citizen to own a radio that does encryption, either analog or digital. And it is unlawful to own a digital radio... someone should educate these officers, if all cops knew that anyone can own a digital radio or a radio with encryption (either analog or digital).. my problems would go away.

 i am not the only one with this problem either, so do not tell me to grow up... there are others on this board (read this --> Radio confiscation stories http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5756
), and others that do not post here, one being my neighbor who was detained for 4 hours, then let go (WITHOUT his radio, they refused to give it back to him, because it was digital, and has encryption) and his Astro Radio is a VHF, he could not listen to PD if he wanted to (my retired cop friend got it back for me)

i did nothing wrong... everytime i got stopped w/ my radio, i was on private property, and using either a business or GMRS frequency...
I purchased a Astro Saber III Radio in a factory sealed box, with instructions, paperwork, flashcode sticker, serial# sticker, and a bill of sale.

How can the police keep my radio and refuse to give it back if it is not stolen, and i have all the paperwork?????? When my friend leaves CA next week, i will not beable to get my radio back after they take it from me. I have spoken with MANY lawyers about this, they all said if it goes to court, i can get it back... but i do not have the money available to pay for a lawyer everytime my radio gets taken...

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:12 am

Now - as far as the missing radios that were stolen MANY years ago (1995 i think, i could be wrong)..

they should drop it.. move on.. those radios can not monitor the new system. The old radios were Apco-16 NOT IMBE/CAI compatable. and according to the LAPD, they can not be flashed to be IMBE/CAI compliant
(read this --> http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5764 )... what if the radios were destroyed, or lost when in South America??? what if they never made it back in the the USA??? what a waste of resources..

the cops seem to be more worried about the 5 Astro Sabers, and 3 Analog Saber radios in my neighborhood, than the drug dealers i see selling drugs across the street in the part (Same Dealers and mostly the same customers... cops been called MANY times... nothing was done about it), the gang shootings in the same park, and the 10+ shootings in the VanNuys area per day...I had a bullet hit the wall by my bedroom window... called 911, the dispatcher told be it could have been a car backfiring, call back if i hear it again... and the call NEVER was broadcast on the radio, i found the bullet the next day and called LAPD, they sent a detective out to collect it.. (yes im moving soon)

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:32 am

I have seen members of both sides overstep there "bounds" so to speak on more than one occasion.

I have seen members of the radio community get out to help at an accident scene, and obviously make it purposely known to the other folks on the scene that they had a neat radio, and that it was blaring on the same frequency (and even to act as there talking to someone) as the public safety personnel.
This practice while not illegal, will certainly draw attention.
Imean, if one is willing to put themselves into a situation similar to that, be ready to identify yourself, and explain, rather than just be on the defensive from the outset.

But, always remember, in 90% of the situations out there, if you are kind and understanding of the officers questions, most likey you will continue on your way with little or no hassle.

Its those who are disrespectful and plain mean that get the hassle.

evoc1998 · Post by **evoc1998** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:02 am

Chad,

You exagerate too much. First of all there are not 10+ shootings a day in the Van Nuys area. You would see Metro and SPU (Special Problems Units), CRU (Crime Repression Units) attack the area if that were the case. The patrol captain of Van Nuys would be receptive to the drug issues in your area. It is unfortunate that by parks it is common place for the dealers, but there are many apartments by which you probably live (SO park or Woodley Park) Contact narcotics detectives and give them specifics. Start a neighborhood watch and fight back! LAPD has volunteers and do drug sweeps with neighbors calling in information to them on a coordinated effort.
Your first statement of just plain moving would probably do the trick. Affluent areas cost money, but could be worth a piece of mind.

Good luck

RCVMO · Post by **RCVMO** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:35 am

As my old DC told,(God bless ya, J) "Don't draw attention to yourself!
Go and do thou likewise!
Jimmy

MRFLASHPORT · Post by **MRFLASHPORT** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:38 pm

Chad,

Wa Wa Wa!

You need to grow up and get a life and stop bragging about your stupid Radio!

I really doubt that anyone here on this board or anyone who works for the LAPD in your area really care that you have an Astro.

You need to move on.......

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:43 pm

I love that screen name!! I agree with you. If you have something with local law enforcement stuff in it keep it to yourself and keep it secure, it would make a nice tool for a bad guy doin jobs.

Stmills · Post by **Stmills** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 4:31 pm

So let me get this right- you are sitting in front of a building in an area with heavy drug traffic and gang activity. You are openly carrying a radio that is a couple thousand dollars and is the exact model that the police that patrol the area carry. First seems like a death wish if the area is as bad as you describe, secondly seems to already present PC for a stop and talk.
How are the street officers supposed to know that this radio has been cleared by the watch commander as ok - because you tell them it was clear. When you interview someone who has knowingly purchased an item that was hot - they often will still insist that it is their because they purchased it- even though they know it is stolen. In a high crime area as you describe your area to be more times than not if you are suspect of illegal activity you are guilty until proven inocent

963Expert · Post by **963Expert** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 5:24 pm

Here's a final thought on this subject -

If your radio is "perfectly legal", how did you program it with LAPD info without a system key?

Seems to me that there has to be some violation there somewhere. If it were my investigation, you certainly wouldn't have gotten the radio back.

Just a thought.

Kel

Post by **alex** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 5:30 pm

From what I understand LAPD is straight conventional using repeaters, and is not trunked, just IMBE CAI Digial.

That would be why you can simply program your radio for it. Also, there are several versions of the LAPD codeplug that circulate around the internet, so in theory it should not be too hard.

-Alex

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 5:33 pm

alex wrote:From what I understand LAPD is straight conventional using repeaters, and is not trunked, just IMBE CAI Digial.

That would be why you can simply program your radio for it. Also, there are several versions of the LAPD codeplug that circulate around the internet, so in theory it should not be too hard.

-Alex

Correct... but i can not dump a LAPD codeplug into my radio, different flashcode... i wrote down the main dispatch channels for my area, and programmed them into my radio (i only have 4 LAPD freqs in my radio)

williamh · Post by **williamh** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:41 pm

ya know ... it sounds like they got in for you

but what really pisses me off is how so many of you are just falling over and saying .... you shouldnt have it and you wouldnt get in so much trouble ... screw that !!!

this is still a free country last time i checked .... some one tell me if im wrong ....... it is NOT a crime to listen to the f@c&eN police . if they dont like it tuff $h1t, dont be a cop. if i want the coolest radio in the word to listen to them .... i can !!!! if its cooler than ice and i can listen to 12 dispatchers at once ... good for me !!!! if they dont want me to listen ..than encript your transmissions.!!! but if they dont like it and take your radio .. thats is called theft. and they should be sued for a million dollars (USA). if they have something to hide , than they have a problem not us. i cant see sending car 54 to the 7-11 to clean up after a robbery is of national security and cant be listened to.. the problems with lapd trying to hide all of there dirty cops over the years you would think that it would be a good thing to have civilians lisiting to keep them from robbing the 7-11 themselves . this thing just pisses me off.... if your transmitting on there channels or hot dogging calls .. then your ass should be grass.. . there is a thing called presumed innocence in this country, in case some of you have forgotten that

stupid actions do not mean that your a cirminal.... and the police are there to protect us.. and maby they should look what it says on the side of thier car " to protect and serve" not "take and persecute"

thats my 37.2 cents worth..

or just mindless ramblings.... i cant tell any more !!!

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:13 am

Hell,
I'd just move outside LAPD jurisdiction and listen all I want. The local PD probably wont have Astros and might not give a flyin..@#$% I live in riverside county, CA. When I carry around my HT1000 the deputy just yawns and keeps driving. Now, If I strapped on one of their Ericsson EDACS 800 Mhz system radios and strutted around like barney fife,my rig would be snatched before i could say ebay! Just 2 cents and a peso..

Blitzbug2u · Post by **Blitzbug2u** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:14 am

Jason wrote:As I am involved in both the amateur radio and law enforcement communities, I have seen members of both sides overstep there "bounds" so to speak on more than one occasion.

I have seen members of the radio community get out to help at an accident scene, and obviously make it purposely known to the other folks on the scene that they had a neat radio, and that it was blaring on the same frequency (and even to act as there talking to someone) as the public safety personnel.
This practice while not illegal, will certainly draw attention.
Imean, if one is willing to put themselves into a situation similar to that, be ready to identify yourself, and explain, rather than just be on the defensive from the outset.

But, always remember, in 90% of the situations out there, if you are kind and understanding of the officers questions, most likey you will continue on your way with little or no hassle.

Its those who are disrespectful and plain mean that get the hassle.

**##They have a word for the "practice" mentioned above--it's IMPERSONNATION. Walking around is one thing, putting on an 'act' of being 'official' is another. There is a world of differance between 'parading as a pseudo-official' and just observing. Like he said--just be ready for questions...If YOU were in the official's shoes, YOU would have questions too. It's all in the presentation---Blitz.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:55 pm

It's interesting to see how each city reacts to this kind of thing. I lived in Colorado most of my life before ending up here in Raleigh. I called the Denver Police Department after they went EDACS to see if they would allow citizens to have EDACS capable radios for monitoring purposes only. Guess what? YES!!!!!!!

They told me once I found an appropriate radio to come down to their radio shop and they'd program it. I found a PCS and took it down there. They programmed all the patrolcast talkgroups and fire department, ems talkgroups for receive only.

They also told me that during major incidents, they reserved the right to disable the radio until after the incident. They never did, even with major stuff going on. That radio still sits in my closet here in Raleigh gathering dust.

Denver must be the exception rather than the rule. They're really cool about it. At least they used to be.

Jack

PS - (don't ask me to sell it cuz I won't)

R F Burns · Post by **R F Burns** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:48 am

Here in NYC, the police are still using "legacy" micor conventional repeater sustems. Only recently has the NYPD radio shop changed PL tones on division dispatch systems to prevent "unauthorized intruders" with Icoms (and others whose radios don't have the 69.3Hz tone) from messing with the systems. And from the looks of it, NYPD's going to be staying with these systems for a few more years due to budget constraints. There isn't much concenr with people monitoring the transmissions. When they want to talk in private, NYPD "bosses" use their assigned Nextels.

Still, I wouldn't walk around looking like a skel with a PD radio lookalike (Saber I) with PD dispatchers blasting from it. you'll get tossed pretty quickly. In fact, a few years ago a few cops in Harlem got into seriously deep doo-doo for attempting to recover a stolen PD radio from a local druggie on their own "terms." It became "personal" and the term "tuned up" became known in more than car repair and radio shops.

http://www.nycop.com/Forum/Forum_-_Sept ... _1999.html

-RFB

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:27 am

Couple of words

If you paid for a Thousand dollar radio, like most of us has, YOU BETTER DAMN RIGHT USE IT TO DEATH!!!!!!!

Then just leaving at home always and bringing another radios along with you,geeez lol.

Post by **alex** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:47 am

Jack wrote:It's interesting to see how each city reacts to this kind of thing. I lived in Colorado most of my life before ending up here in Raleigh. I called the Denver Police Department after they went EDACS to see if they would allow citizens to have EDACS capable radios for monitoring purposes only. Guess what? YES!!!!!!!

They told me once I found an appropriate radio to come down to their radio shop and they'd program it. I found a PCS and took it down there. They programmed all the patrolcast talkgroups and fire department, ems talkgroups for receive only.

They also told me that during major incidents, they reserved the right to disable the radio until after the incident. They never did, even with major stuff going on. That radio still sits in my closet here in Raleigh gathering dust.

Denver must be the exception rather than the rule. They're really cool about it. At least they used to be.

Jack

PS - (don't ask me to sell it cuz I won't)

There's been other instances of this before, where they would give out numbers that were setup in the system to not allow access, just to listen, and so your radio can have a valid code, and not interfear with something else on the system.

I don't remember who or what system, but after 9/11 I doubt that will be a common practice.

-Alex

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:22 am

I agree with Dale Earnhardt - If we paied $1000 - 4000 for a friggen radio (a portable at that) , then we have the right to carry it around and do as we please ( to an extent) I think that the town cops should read up on some FCC laws.

jwood · Post by **jwood** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:38 pm

MT2000 man wrote:I think that the town cops should read up on some FCC laws.

There are no FCC LAWS they are only "FCC RULES"

n5rwc · Post by **n5rwc** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:47 pm

In my 25 yrs of involvement in LE I have never had ANY problems owning radio capable of RX or for that matter TX. I carry the radio in my back pocket not on my belt and don't walk around with it blasting away, I keep the volume at a low level and never use a speaker mic, that is what draws attention.
Sure you don't have any trouble. But lets compare apples to apples. When I was a cop and off duty and was pulled over for a minor traffic violation all I did was flash my get out of jail free card when I was going for my drivers permit. The average Joe Lunchbucket dosen't have that luxury. :O

xawmx · Post by **xawmx** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:22 pm

Chad, you mentioned you had LAPD RX and TX in your radio...Though you say you've never "TX'ed" why would you even have the TX frequencies programmed in??? I am an authorized public safety radio user, yet I still have RX Only for a few channels on my radio (Intercity and surrounding cities/towns) I am not authorized to transmit on those systems, so why would I program in the TX frequencies? (And why would you?)

PropellorHead · Post by **PropellorHead** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:50 pm

Blitzbug2u wrote:**##They have a word for the "practice" mentioned above--it's IMPERSONNATION. Walking around is one thing, putting on an 'act' of being 'official' is another. There is a world of differance between 'parading as a pseudo-official' and just observing. Like he said--just be ready for questions...If YOU were in the official's shoes, YOU would have questions too. It's all in the presentation---Blitz.

In California, that does not constitute "impersonation." Impersonation is committed when a person falsely represents himself as an office and in doing so, ALSO: intimidates the other person or arrests, detains or threatens a person, searches a person, building or private property or obtains money or anything of value.

Also, the yahoo hasn't even committed PERSONATION, because again, in California, personation occurs when someone wears, uses, makes, sells, loans or gives a BADGE, EMBLEM or CERTIFICATE with INTENT to fraudulently represent a peace officer.

It seems that on both sides of the fence, people are talking about ideas and terms that they aren't entirely keen on.

Sorry to rehash this post, I just realized after typing all of this that is was dated in 2002!

In any event, at least those who search know the correct terminology!

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:40 am

EDITED due to it being pointed out that it's a 7 year old thread.

FireCpt809 · Post by **FireCpt809** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:10 am

wow a 7 year old thread..

To all law enforcement from someone who owns a AstroSaber 3

To all law enforcement from someone who owns a AstroSaber 3

I agree and disagree!!!

Bonehead award

Re: Bonehead award

Only the FCC has jurisdiction over RF

Re: Only the FCC has jurisdiction over RF

Get "Real" Chad

Asking for it--

Re: Asking for it--

Re: To all law enforcement from someone who owns a AstroSaber 3

Re: To all law enforcement from someone who owns a AstroSaber 3