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A CenCom or SmartSiren like device for light relays?
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:34 pm
by akardam
Been scratching my brain for a bit on this one.
Is there any product out there that anybody knows of that has a similar look and feel to a CenCom or SmartSiren, but basically just drives a bunch of relay controls?
I'm looking for something to drive some auxilliary lighting (read: non-blinky non-emergency) in my vehicle, and instead of having a bunch of manual switches, I figured something nice and push-button-y and backlight might do the trick... something where the control head was relatively small, with a simple data cable going back to the brains of the unit.
The CenCom and SmartSiren units, in addition to being way too pricy, also don't appear to have the necessary number of outputs for my purposes (about 6).
So... anyone have any thoughts?
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:09 am
by TWL911
Sounds like a Motorola Wildcard box is what your looking for. I use one myself to control my lighting/siren.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:21 am
by allcomm
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:18 am
by alex
That's what I was going to suggest. I know a lot of independent installers uses this system, and there aren't a lot of complaints. You can get them in larger than 3x2 as well, I've seen them as may as 10-12 buttons.
-Alex
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:07 am
by akardam
I think I remember seeing this before... that quite looks like it would suit my needs. Thanks!
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:34 am
by tvsjr
FYI, the Cencom has:
1 40-amp output
2 20-amp outputs
5 10-amp outputs (1 can be converted into a dry relay)
4 250mA outputs
The TouchTek stuff is nice, but fairly pricey for nothing more than a pretty panel and a box o' relays. Cencoms are starting to show up on the used market... I bought one from a known-reputable seller for $500, with the TA functions. And, you'd get the siren/PA/TA/etc. features that the TouchTek will lack (you can kill the siren and just use it for air horn, maybe PA, and radio rebroadcast if you want).
Something to ponder, anyway.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:07 pm
by akardam
I know. I had been considering a CenCom (if for no other reason than the slidy switch). Obviously price was a consideration. I'll keep my eyes open.
The CenCom may be a bit overkill for me, since I already have an amp. I've looked at it before, and I would probably replace my existing unit with the CenCom if not for one reason - the PA volume is not adjustable from the controls (unless I'm missing something). Also, I was a little dissapointed that it won't drive my Dominator TA natively.
Looking at the programming software, it does seem relatively flexible - and I like the idea of using the slider to activate several functions at once.
Any other pros or cons I should know about?
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:36 pm
by 007
I was running a SmartSiren for a while in my previous car, and it was only for the 8 relays, airhorn and RRB.
It was overkill, but it's better than 8 30a relays and a messy homemade wiring harness.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:50 pm
by tvsjr
The Cencom will absolutely drive your three-wire TA natively. Grab the latest programming software, v3.6, from their web site:
http://www.whelen.com/downloads/
When the software comes up, select Three Line TA for the profile and ta-da.
You'll lose the 10-amp Output 8, and 9 and 10 for the controls, but you'll still have the 40, 2 20s, 4 10s, and 2 250mAs.
The programming is extremely flexible... play around with it some.
No, the PA volume is not adjustable from the panel. So? I've never really seen a need to back the PA volume down... and you can always hold the mic back slightly/speak more quietly.
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:00 pm
by akardam
tvsjr wrote:The Cencom will absolutely drive your three-wire TA natively. Grab the latest programming software, v3.6, from their web site
Eeeeenteresting... is this also true of the CenCom Gold?
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:17 pm
by tvsjr
Yup. Click on the STBY button, set the T/A to "3-Line TA".
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:41 am
by Pj
Ouch. $350 for 6 relays. I think the relay verison of the Whelen PCC9R (9 internal relays?) goes for about that...with the slide switch thingy
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:12 am
by tvsjr
It's just not remote mount. I've got a PCCS9R1 with the sixth on/off button (instead of momentary), new in box, for sale if he wants to go that way.
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:50 am
by akardam
Yech. Too clunky, too much room.
It's gonna be a stretch to find a place to mount a CenCom head as it is.
Interestingly enough, in the CenCom Gold v4.2.4 software, I couldn't find anywhere to select a 3-line TA. All it had was Halogen or LED.
That may not be much of an issue, anyway. I've already got all the blinkenlitchen hooked up to the dominator control head. Would probably just use one of the builtin 20a relays to drive power to the entire collection, so I could have an instant-on.
Got a buddy who might have a CenCom sitting around somewhere
Thanks for all the info. Will post again if I have any more questions (which I'm sure I will, heh).
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:39 am
by tvsjr
You're looking in the wrong place. Halogen/LED should be set to halogen... where it says 8-lamp, set that to 3-Line TA.
And, do some rewiring, lose the Dominator head. The Cencom is a pimpin' box... use it to its full potential.
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:58 am
by akardam
Aaaaah... now I see. And will the LED TA display still work with the CenCom in 3-line mode? That would be tits.
Hrm, yes... means dropping the headliner but I may indeed have to do some rewiring...
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:37 am
by tvsjr
I've never done it (mine's an old-school 8-wire...) but yes, it should. Otherwise, you're going to have a real hard time telling which direction the arrow's going in (there's no left/center/right button... you hit DIR to cycle through).
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:41 am
by akardam
Yeah... if it's dark I can see the lightbar reflecting on the inside of the shell, but during the daytime it'd be a bit hard.
I believe a call to Whelen is in order.
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:22 pm
by Pj
If you have a laptop, go computer pimping control. KB9KST had that windows based/relay control program that he had a couple of years ago.
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:30 pm
by akardam
Yeah... don't have a puter in the car (yet). Plus, am not really crazy about having to boot up a computer just to control the doodads.
We'll see what Whelen has to say when I call 'em.
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:07 am
by Pump3
I'd be interested to know more about this computer thing, if you could send me some info I'd appreciat it. Sorry about stealing a spot in your post akardam.
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:29 am
by akardam
Zuh... which computer thing?
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:54 pm
by tvsjr
I expect he's referring to KST's system. I'm with you... having to boot the computer to turn on my lights is no bueno. A blue screen of death mid-response would be even worse.
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:55 pm
by Pump3
If you have a laptop, go computer pimping control. KB9KST had that windows based/relay control program that he had a couple of years ago.
Just wondering what you meant.
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:58 pm
by akardam
tvsjr wrote:I expect he's referring to KST's system. I'm with you... having to boot the computer to turn on my lights is no bueno. A blue screen of death mid-response would be even worse.
Yeah... brings a whole new meaning to the term Code Blue.
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:55 pm
by 007
After seeing this thread, it reminded me that I had a VHF Orion/SS2000-ERCSN laying in a box.
It's now installed
The regular SS2000SM-SC is good, but not perfect, for non-blinkenlighten applications because of the slide switch. The SS2000-ERCSN is perfect however, because the Orion keypad buttons can be marco'd so the SS2000 relays ( 1-8 ) can be momentary or toggle on/off.
It's now controlling vehicle functions very nicely.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:00 pm
by kc0jar
Didn't see it mentioned anywhere else, but you could look into a TouchTekVI, or TouchTekXII
kinda hard to find online, but they have either 6 or 12 membrane buttons that turn off/on relays in a seperate, remote controlled box.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:56 pm
by SafetyLighting
Where are you mounting the unit?
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:09 pm
by akardam
Wherever there's room for whatever I end up getting...
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:26 am
by SafetyLighting
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:02 am
by tvsjr
akardam wrote:something where the control head was relatively small, with a simple data cable going back to the brains of the unit.
He wants a remote-mount unit. Near as I can tell, that Carson box isn't. Try reading the posts before blindly trying to peddle your product?
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:55 am
by SafetyLighting
LOL, hey stupid, I asked where he wanted to mount it and he replied"Wherever there's room for whatever I end up getting..." This Thread was about suggestions, and that is what I gave him, a suggestion. I know you think that there isn't anything better than Whelen, but that is your opinion and doesn't give you the right to trash other people for voicing their opinions and ideas. Next time you have a problem with something someone says, keep it off the thread or report the post if you want, but do not talk down to people because of your tunnel-visioned product opinions.
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:13 am
by tvsjr
Actually, troll, I'm pondering the purchase of a Tomar Blade. I like it better than the Liberty. Carson has some good product. Signal VP has the only HHCH-style siren/switch panel I've seen. I'm not at all strictly Whelen, but they do have some very good products.
Had you read the entire thread, it would've been patently obvious that he's looking for a remote-mount unit. In his original post, he asks for something that has the look and feel of a Cencom or a Smartsiren. Your Carson box compares to a Cencom about the way a Honda compares to a Benz. Both will work, one's a whole hell of a lot nicer.
You accuse me of a "tunnel-visioned product opinion." Funny, from the person who always pimps Carson and 911EP products. In looking at your posts (the majority of which have been in the Vehicle Equipment forum, which isn't really the central focus of this board) you've never (maybe I missed one, so I'll say rarely instead) recommended a Whelen, FedSig, Signal, Code3, or other product. And I'm tunnel-visioned?
And, stupid? Is that the best you can do?
In short... shoo, troll. Kthxbye.
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:55 am
by alex
Look, there are always different products and oppinions out there.
I agree with Tvsjr on the fact that you really didn't read the origional post, and one look at the carson box, and I can tell that it wouldn't fit in Akardam's truck. But, I also know this because I've been in it more than a few times...
Now... if we can all get past name calling and stupifing eachother it'll be all good.
Make good and play in the sandbox people.
-Alex
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:13 am
by akardam
So, the saga continues...
E-mailed Whelen last night:
I have a few questions about interfacing my existing Dominator TIR3 traffic advisor w/ end flashers to a future CenCom Gold install.
1. Can my TA be used with the CenCom Gold's 3-wire TA setting?
2. Will my TA activate the TA indicator LEDs on the control head?
3. Do I need the CCSRN2 or CCSRNTA2 unit to control my TA?
Thank you
First Whelen response:
No. You will have to program individual outputs to activate that dominator style TA assembly. It will not work with the cen com programmed as a 2 wire TA.
Technical Service Group
ORLY? I respond back...
Thanks for your reply. I was led to believe this might work, as such:
From the CenCom™ Siren/Light Control System Configuration Software Guide (13712) pg 3:
"Lamp Quantity/Three Line Traffic Advisor - Here the user will select the number of
lightheads present in the Traffic Advisor or if the system uses a 3-line TA (Selecting “None”
means there is no TA installed).
If a 3-line Traffic Advisor (as used in Patriot, Liberty and Freedom-series lightbars) is
selected, the wire designated “Left TA” should be connected to Outlet 9. The wire
designated “Right TA” should be connected to Outlet 10. Pairs of lightheads that will be flashed should be connected to
Outlet 8 (refer to your lightbar manual for detailed information).
When wired as outlined above, pressing the DIR button will activate Outlet 9 and initiate the “Sequence: Left” display.
Pressing the DIR button a second time will activate Outlet 10 and initiate the “Sequence: Right” display. Pressing the
DIR button for a third time will activate Outputs 9 & 10 simultaneously initiating a “Split” display. Pressing the FLSH
button will activate Outlet 8 causing the lightheads connected to this outlet to flash."
And according to the Installation Guide: Dominator™ / TA Series (13899) pg 2:
SW 1 (Red): 12v+ DC
SW 2 (Blue): TA/Sweep Left
SW 3 (Green): TA/Sweep Right
SW 4 (Orange): End Flasher (if equipped) [which my TA is]
Given all this, will my Dominator still not work with the CenCom Gold?
And lo and behold, a reply from Whelen...
Yes. It can work with that system.
Technical Service Group
Ok... now I'm just bloody well confused... not really sure that this guy knows what he's talking about, and his curt responses are somewhat, oh,
not helpfull...
Time to write them back again...
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:51 pm
by jedi_saber
you definitely found out more than I did about a year ago when I had to switch out a tir3 dominator 8 head traffic advisor for the one with 8 individual leads to wire into the cencom.
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:18 pm
by Pj
John Kuzemenski? is the one to talk to at Whelen. He typically mans the phone and email. He is pretty much knows all the products inside and out.
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:04 pm
by akardam
Well, oddly enough, that was the gentleman to whom I was conversing via e-mail...
He has yet to respond to my latest e-mail. We'll see what happens.
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:59 am
by akardam
Weeeel... John's latest response says that even though my TA can be run via the 3-line setting, it will not activate the TA display indicator on the control head.
Poot.
Guess I'll be getting the non-TA version and doing my own custom controls.
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:03 am
by tvsjr
I dunno. I think I'd call them, see what you can get out of them. I can't believe it wouldn't activate the LEDs on the head.
If nothing else, the T/A model is much more commonly found on the used market, and will be much more resellable later. Get the T/A version, if you have to rig up your own controls, just don't use those buttons...
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:11 pm
by EVModules
You could control the dominator with just a push button to "scroll" thru the functions so you don't need to be limited by the size of the control head for that. I can make a small 1/4 palm size module to do the job.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:26 am
by akardam
I've already got the full featured control head for the dominator, with three aux switches for other lighting. What I was trying to get at was to run that all through the Cencom. However, since that's not looking like it's going to be practical, I'm just going to leave that one in there and mount the Cencom seperately.
Re: A CenCom or SmartSiren like device for light relays?
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:42 am
by agtkgv
TST Corp Touch Tek, there is a 6 and 8 switch model, same look as the smart siren, but switches/relay only, no siren function. I believe their website is
http://www.tst-corp.com
Re: A CenCom or SmartSiren like device for light relays?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:13 pm
by RFguy
A bit late on this response, but how about the Fed Signal SW400SS
http://www.fedsig.com/products/docs/lit ... 5108HD.pdf
It has a 3 position steped slide switch that controls 3 high current internal relays and 4 toggle switches.
Re: A CenCom or SmartSiren like device for light relays?
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:10 am
by akardam
Guess I should say I just ended up going with a CenCom.