Batboard

I know that a lot of public safety users frequent this board, so I figured this should make a good discussion.

There have been problems being reported in Arizona with Ford Crown Victoria police cruisers bursting into flames when they were struck from behind at high speeds. At least two officers were killed in such incidents. Many incidents from other locations are begining to surface.

With the number of lawsuits being brought against Ford, I can only wonder how Ford will hold out. Ford is still hurting from the Firestone tire incident from a few years ago; I can only presume this issue won't help them any.

I am eager to hear what Ford discovers on testing the gas tanks, and what will be done about this issue. I think it's safe to say that the popular choice in public safety cruser is the police Crown Vic, so this hits close to home for most of us.

Here is a source of news (among others):
http://www.arizonarepublic.com/crownvictoria/
<b>
What do you think about this?

Do you think Ford will react to this issue better then they reacted to the Firestone tire issue?
</b>

As one who drives a Crown Vic at least 40 hours a week, I'm concerned. Concerned enough to refuse to drive it? No. But it does raise my awareness level dramatically.

Ford certainly could be complacent: the last study I saw in a LE journal said 89% of PD's in the U.S. use Crown Vic's as their primary marked patrol unit.

However, local anecdotes show Ford may be in for some trouble: some depts are switching to the Impala; and those officers whose depts. have the new police package Intrepids swear they won't go back to anything else.

Ther other interesting observation is that my sister lives in one of the cities where an officer was killed. Apparently the gas tank issue is not new; AZ agencies have been complaining long before the tragedies.

My only real hope is that Ford gets on the ball before someone else - LEO or civilian - is injured or killed in an incident that could've been prevented. I would think that, in light of the Firestone incident, Ford would be very active in resolving the complaint. Let's hope so.

Point of information: Three officers killed, 1 injured and badly disfigured in Crown Vic explosions in Arizona.

Ford has not had a good history on wanting to fix like problems on other vehicles. I believe they have been criticized in the past for taking a position that it's cheaper to pay claims rather than fix a problem. On this current problem they've already stooged up and made a statement that
the crown vic. is one of the safest cars on the road- doesn't sound like they want to address the problem again. They also had fuel tank problems on the older Mustangs and I believe pickups that had fuel tanks mounted on the outside of frame. Results were horrific- vehicle occupants were incenirated. They've had a piss poor attitutude in the past
and look likei t's gonna be the case again. With all the PD cruisers on the road I'm surprised no-one has come out with a PD cruiser from the ground up rather than modifying a production vehicle, I'm sure we could
come up with ideas for an awesome police only vehicle. Maybe the niche is too small to make a realistic profit ?

This just shows that profits count more than peoples lives (again).

Maybe Ford is just recycling Pinto engineering.

RadioSouth wrote:...and I believe pickups that had fuel tanks mounted on the outside of frame...

I think that whas Chevrolet which had that problem. I remember a friend telling me about it, but it was a good few years ago when that happened.

-Alex

Remeber the Vic also had Tranny issues, and ABS problems.

I recall Ford having a slogan at one time of "Quality is Job One."

Now, their slogan is "No Boundaries."

Makes me wonder.

Another possible theory that should be considered is when ford does the crash test on the Crown Victoria, they use a standard consummer vehicle rather than a police vehicle.
The police intercepter has an extra exhaust pipe that could be beaking at a weak point near the tank and rupturing it.
This is something that would not have been discovered during the origanal crash test since it was not on the standard consummer vehicle.

The dual exhaust is avail. with the optional handling package. You might be correct in that conclusion since the vehicle tested per the spec. sheets was a 200 hp version (Single exhaust).

The other thing to look at is the possiblilty that equipment might have been installed on the back deck of the trunk and screwed into the gas tank, the accident occurs, the equipment is ripped loose and the gas is forced up through the holes into the trunk compartment and ignited by the electrical equipment that might be sparking. Just a thought since I have seen many installs that are drilled right into the gas tank and no one seems to care.

Well, things WILL break or rupture when struck by something else moving at or in excess of 70 miles per hour.

From what I understand all of the known cases were where the police cruiser was parked on the side of the road (traffic stop) and they were rear ended by a vehicle travelling between 70 and 75 MPH. Honestly, do you think ANY vehicle would withstand that without causing the occupants of the vehicle harm?

Ford stated they are looking into it, and there seems to be a relation to fuel tank ruptures and a bolt on the rear end. Mechanics were instructed to grind that bolt down as a precaution.

As far as the "no boundaries" slogan........
That's for their truck and SUV line of products.

The Ford's are pretty good cars. Probably the best police cars on the market.

Of course the Ford ambulances of the 1980's were the best out too. Quite a few scorched paramedics inside those ambulances.....

Jaqx

EKS wrote:As far as the "no boundaries" slogan........
That's for their truck and SUV line of products.

<b>What IS Ford's current corporate slogan anyway?</b>
[edited to remove color for non-batblack schemes]

F ix O r R epair D aily

He he

easy solution. switch to dodge.

F ound O n R oad D ead


The news reports 10 officer deaths nationwide in crown vic pyro displays.

I thought it was "F**ked Over Re-built Dodge---

Well i think the new impalas are built so much better that the crown vic.
how come every crown vic seems to to have cracks in the bumber near the tail pipe

as for dodge i am little weary my freind has a 2000 stratus and she has had lots of trouble but i am nore shure if it is juat that car or what

all i can say wait till they bring the holden (Aussi Impala) up here 350 rear wheel drive

Dodge/Mopar ? A blast from the past in police cruisers. 1st cruiser I was
given the keys for was a Dodge Aspen with a 318. When I asked what the
he-- kind of an excuse was this for a cruiser I was pointed to an older
Plymouth Fury that was called 'old betsy' that no one drove any more
cause it was a few years old and had a hole in the floorboard. Well I fired
up Old Betsy, now this sounded like a cruiser. Took a look under the
hood and smiled ear to ear -it had a Hemi motor. Guess who drove Old Betsy for about a year and a half until they retired her ? Now THAT was
a cruiser ! To keep my reply on topic I'll mention Old Betsy was equipped
with a Mocom-70.

Well to add to the numbers.....

2 weeks ago a NY state Trooper was involved in a troop car accident with a 2 civilian vehicles. Trooper was responding to a priority call red lights and sirens. Speed was not determined to be excessive(per the sgt approximately 60 mph). One car yeilded right of way and changed their mind and sideswipped the cruiser which bounced him into another car. The trooper was able to control the vehicle well enough to steer it away from another group of vehicles and into a guardrail. Once the cruiser was at rest the vehicle burst into flames. Within 5 minutes the vehicle was fully consumed in fire. The trooper excaped with cuts and abrasions.

I live in Arizona, and the last fatal accident, with the ford vic, was listed that the officer was at fault, and he was not hit from behind. This was from a report of the Arizona DPS.....

http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special2 ... port0.html

Still, I think departments need to look at other vehicles for their fleets....they even mentioned that new bladder bags for the gas tanks protection would not have saved the officer life. In addition, FORD did crash tests on the Ford Vic, but it is not the version used for police duty, maybe they need some adjustments on there testing, and there vehicles...

Found On the Road Dead

Our agency was notified by Ford last fall about this problem. Apparantly there are some metal "tabs" that stick out off of the under-carriage somewhere close to the gas tank. When a rear collision occurs at high speeds, the gas tank is pushed into these tabs and is ruptured. Our local Ford dealer ground these tabs off for $25.00 dollars per vehicle out of warranty and for free on vehicles in warranty. It was not an official recall, but a service note sent to all dealers and police package customers. If anyone would like more info on this, I can dig it up and either e-mail it or post it here. Let me know.

Craig

this topic really angers me, it doesnt belong here on this board.

Another attempt to point fingers and be sue happy.

I am off to trade in my Caprice for a Crown Vic.

An Officer faitality fleet we the topic last November when a 2 year Officer lost his life trying to sting a vehicle involved in a DWI pursuit. From bits and pieces of information recieved, the Officer was out of his vehice preparing to deploy Stingers, when the verhice traveling over 70 miles an hour slammed into him and the rear of the patrol CV. From what was said, the Officer was caught between the both vehicles when the CV exploded. The officer died due to the injuries sustained. I knew him personally.
Though the officer did not die as a occupant in the vehicle, I do think that he would have a small chance of servival had the CV not exploded. Great to know that our life isn't just on the line due to perps, but also, our life is on the line in our own personal office.

RL3106 TCSO
Austin

Where else are you going to put the gas tank on a car. These vehicles along with the caprice are the most widly used vehicles in pd work and fire and ems station vehicles. They are also used an extreme amount in an extreme way,the odds are stacked against them. In the past 2 years one of my towns caprices caugt fire! Its just the nature of the vehicle with its usage.It should not happen at all,but the odds are still pretty good. Now back to a radio topic..........

KitN1MCC wrote:Well i think the new impalas are built so much better that the crown vic.

I have to disagree. We have two Impala's - neither has more than 30K miles, and both have had extensive transaxle problems. One of them is about to be retired, 'cause it's getting too expensive to keep on the road. The other is going to be the (new) DARE car, since nobody in patrol wants to drive it. The local Chevy dealer claims the failures are abuse, not piss-poor engineering. He doesn't want to see us anymore.
The silver lining in all this...(not)? The latest additions to our fleet are 'Police Package' Expeditions. Drove one once, in the rain. It felt like a hippo on ice skates. Never again - I'll take the crapped out Caprice 9C1 with 180K miles any day.
Can't wait for those Holdens to show up; it hasen't been this bad since the St. Regis days of the early 80's...

The crown vic has to be the best squad cars since the 86-90 chevy caprice models but it looked to me like most of those accidents were major when the gas tank bursted hopefully they get the dam recalls out quick.

Sorry about bringing this one back, but I figured some folks might be interested in this:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/