I have a MTR2000 VHF 100 watt AC power supply. We back it up with a APC UPS on site.
Is there any way that I can change it to low power via activation of an input?
I would like to move it to low power when I loose site AC and the repeater is running on UPS AC power.
There is no battery kit on this unit. I know that if I had a battery kit that the unit would go to low power when it sees a loss of AC, but I do not have that option.
What about a wildcard function?
MTR2000 100 watt VHF AC powered unit external low pwr select
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A UPS is a pisspoor way to back up any radio equipment. It is about as inefficient as it gets. You take 12VDC to 120VAC and back to 12VDC all while under 50% efficiency. Everyone wants to take the lazy "plug n play" way out with a UPS from a computer that has no place in radio. Besides, you might get only a few minutes out of most common UPSs on a 100W radio. With a proper backup system, yopu will get hours. I tested a 100W MastrII on backup to see what it would do and it went for 8+ hours using two yellow Optima batteries during some decent usage. Don't try this with a UPS!
Use a proper battery backup unit and external battery of the proper voltage and you won't need low power.
Use a proper battery backup unit and external battery of the proper voltage and you won't need low power.
1. While a true UPS (i.e., AC into a charger which goes into batteries which go into an inverter which goes into the AC power supply of the device in question) is a bit inefficient, how long a UPS will carry a load given a loss of utility power is a function ultimately the the size of the battery bank, not the UPS design. I have built UPSs for Quantars that, depending on duty cycle and whether we use 2 or 4 8G31DT gel cells, will run for 2 to 10 hours before depleting the batteries to their nominal 50% discharge point. And this is without reducing the transmitter power from the 100W that we use when utility power is available.
2. The answer to the original question depends on whether either there is an "action" for a wildcard table that will reduce transmitter power when an external input goes active or you could program a second channel identical to the first channel in all respects except for power. The answer to the question resides in my Windows laptop, which is down in the car and it is raining, but from memory (i) I don't recall power level as a wildcard action and (ii) I seem to recall power output in the RF screen, not the channel screen.
2. The answer to the original question depends on whether either there is an "action" for a wildcard table that will reduce transmitter power when an external input goes active or you could program a second channel identical to the first channel in all respects except for power. The answer to the question resides in my Windows laptop, which is down in the car and it is raining, but from memory (i) I don't recall power level as a wildcard action and (ii) I seem to recall power output in the RF screen, not the channel screen.
Thanks for the lecture.Everyone wants to take the lazy "plug n play" way out with a UPS from a computer that has no place in radio
Customer has an existing 10kw UPS system power the building. I was just looking to see if it was an option. Thanks for telling me my business.
PS. I was unable to find information on rge action tables for the wildcard. Where is the info located in the documentation?
The RSS may be the best place to get information on the wildcard.
You may be able to do what you want by bringing a 'running on UPS power' indication into the station through one of the wildcard inputs, then configure an action to use that input to change the station to a second channel.
The second channel would be identical to your normal operation except for having a lower transmit power level.
You may be able to do what you want by bringing a 'running on UPS power' indication into the station through one of the wildcard inputs, then configure an action to use that input to change the station to a second channel.
The second channel would be identical to your normal operation except for having a lower transmit power level.
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Dan562
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MTR2000
Personally I don't think you can provide this High / Low RF Power Function via the Primary AC Voltage / 10 KW UPS System and Wildcard scripting. BTW, the /\/\ Software Engineering Development Group (that formerly was in Toronto, Canada has been convienently relocated to some where in Viet Nam) never had provided examples of the MTR2000 Wildcard Scripting Tables in written or software form. They must have thought that the average Field Technician could easily learn to manipulate the Wildcard Tables without documentation. It's called learn by Osmosis. 
I'd say that's the way to go. A simple relay connected to a non-UPS power outlet could be used to provide the relay action upon A/C failure. The rest of it relies on whether you can force a channel change with the wildcard. I've never worked with one, so I can't say for sure, but it would seem like a relatively simple thing to make it do.xmo wrote: You may be able to do what you want by bringing a 'running on UPS power' indication into the station through one of the wildcard inputs, then configure an action to use that input to change the station to a second channel.
The second channel would be identical to your normal operation except for having a lower transmit power level.
Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
Welcome to the /\/\achine.
Welcome to the /\/\achine.
Using an unsupported outlet and a relay to set up a "running on backup" beep over the air is straightforward enough, but I don't think you can, by changing channels, change the power level. I think that is set on a radio-wide basis.
On the other hand, with an UPS of that size, I wonder if there's much to be gained from cutting back in power. I don't recall the MTR2000 specifics offhand, but the Quantar draws about 600 watts when key down and about 65 watts unkeyed (whether or not squelched; it is dominated by the exciter). This suggests that it will be other building loads that will drive the need to bring in a skid-mount to bail out the UPS long before the MTR load has any impact.
On the other hand, with an UPS of that size, I wonder if there's much to be gained from cutting back in power. I don't recall the MTR2000 specifics offhand, but the Quantar draws about 600 watts when key down and about 65 watts unkeyed (whether or not squelched; it is dominated by the exciter). This suggests that it will be other building loads that will drive the need to bring in a skid-mount to bail out the UPS long before the MTR load has any impact.
"...but I don't think you can, by changing channels, change the power level. I think that is set on a radio-wide basis. "
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MTR2000 transmit RF power is set on a per channel basis.
Also, "CHN XX" [Change to channel XX] is an available MTR2000 Wildcard feature action table command.
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MTR2000 transmit RF power is set on a per channel basis.
Also, "CHN XX" [Change to channel XX] is an available MTR2000 Wildcard feature action table command.
Different customers have different levels of resources and requirements. I have one customer that has a very small truck operation and he uses a small UPS on his base station to avoid short duration outages. He has limited funds so he choose to use a UPS that he had on hand to provide some limited backup during short outages. He is aware of the cost of a "proper" battery revert/charging system, but can not afford to go that way. It is a decision that he has made based on his circumstance.
I have another customer that has a very large battery bank and reverting charger on his MTR. He has about 20 days battery autonomy as one or two-week power outages have occurred in the past and his system is critical. . It is a decision that he has made based on his circumstance.
Our shop services both customers and we do not look "down" on the customer that can not afford to equip his system with a “proper” battery bank and revert/charging system.
A comment such as "Everyone wants to take the lazy "plug n play" way out with a UPS from a computer that has no place in radio" is a bit ignorant of a customers ability to fund his communications system let alone that it is solely the customers decision on how to allocate his resources.
In the case that I originally posted about, I thought that the customer was innovative in his request for assistance to help maximize the time that his backup system will operate in the event of an outage. He has already changed out his incandescent task lighting with low current LED type. He has changed out his monitors with lower current LCD type plus several changes to minimize load and maximize efficiency. I felt that his request to us to reduce load during an outage was valid and I was happy to research it for him. I went through the resources (manuals, RSS, Motorola tech support) and did not find a clear answer, so I turned to the knowledgeable people on this board.
Thanks to all who provided information without making assumptions about my customer, or my technical abilities.
All constructive input and suggestions are certainly welcome.
Jim:
Here is a suggestion on how you may have phrased your response:
A UPS is not a very efficient way to provide extended backup to your radio equipment. The conversion of stored battery power to 120VAC and back to DC again to power your station is not very efficient. A common UPS will generally only give you a short duration backup. A proper battery revert/charging kit on a base station is much more efficient and will provide longer backup times. You may wish to consider this approach (if you have not already) to extend your back up time and you may not need to go to low power. Good luck with your project.
I think that a response like this would have been just as helpful without the personal insult.
Once again, thanks for the other helpful responses.
I have another customer that has a very large battery bank and reverting charger on his MTR. He has about 20 days battery autonomy as one or two-week power outages have occurred in the past and his system is critical. . It is a decision that he has made based on his circumstance.
Our shop services both customers and we do not look "down" on the customer that can not afford to equip his system with a “proper” battery bank and revert/charging system.
A comment such as "Everyone wants to take the lazy "plug n play" way out with a UPS from a computer that has no place in radio" is a bit ignorant of a customers ability to fund his communications system let alone that it is solely the customers decision on how to allocate his resources.
In the case that I originally posted about, I thought that the customer was innovative in his request for assistance to help maximize the time that his backup system will operate in the event of an outage. He has already changed out his incandescent task lighting with low current LED type. He has changed out his monitors with lower current LCD type plus several changes to minimize load and maximize efficiency. I felt that his request to us to reduce load during an outage was valid and I was happy to research it for him. I went through the resources (manuals, RSS, Motorola tech support) and did not find a clear answer, so I turned to the knowledgeable people on this board.
Thanks to all who provided information without making assumptions about my customer, or my technical abilities.
All constructive input and suggestions are certainly welcome.
Jim:
Here is a suggestion on how you may have phrased your response:
A UPS is not a very efficient way to provide extended backup to your radio equipment. The conversion of stored battery power to 120VAC and back to DC again to power your station is not very efficient. A common UPS will generally only give you a short duration backup. A proper battery revert/charging kit on a base station is much more efficient and will provide longer backup times. You may wish to consider this approach (if you have not already) to extend your back up time and you may not need to go to low power. Good luck with your project.
I think that a response like this would have been just as helpful without the personal insult.
Once again, thanks for the other helpful responses.
Radio on UPS
I think you have to forgive Jim... he meant well, and I have to admit that Jim was not alone in his interpretation. You could have stated "10 kW UPS", and it would have totally changed the picture we all paint in our mind and interpretation of your situation. You cannot control the response of others. However, you can control the pertinent information you provide to paint the picture in the readers mind.
Back to the matter at hand. Is the antenna system in a location that could take a direct lightning strike? If the UPS is powering critical equipment, AND the antenna is on a tower or high spot that could potentially see a lightning strike, this might not be fair to the other loads sharing that UPS.
RF Dude
Back to the matter at hand. Is the antenna system in a location that could take a direct lightning strike? If the UPS is powering critical equipment, AND the antenna is on a tower or high spot that could potentially see a lightning strike, this might not be fair to the other loads sharing that UPS.
RF Dude