Batboard

I was just on the biggest Dayton, OH repeater (145.110). I have POST MDC signalling enabled, and I have received compliments on this repeater a lot of times about how neat it sounds. Then some K8xxx station popped in and asked me "Sir, what is that ungodly noise?" I told him what it was. The he cracked on me some more, and I remained calm. Then I asked him how long he was licensed. He told me that he was licensed for "Tweeeeeeeeeenty seven years... How long have you been licensed for, sir?" I told him since January of 2002 and he told me that was the problem, and I need to get that off the air. By that time, I was VERY pissed off. How dare someone tell me on AMATEUR frequencies to change my radio. The callsign didn't match the repeater callsign, and I was not going to change frequencies. I am not even from this direct area, and I don't really give a schitt about what he thinks. I had a LOT of people earlier in the day compliment and ask questions about the MDC signalling. Then this guy who thinks he's the ruler of the whole damn system said it was good only on Simplex, CB, 800 or 900mhz public safety. I indirectly told him to eat it and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I also advised him that this signalling is approved on these frequencies. He told me to read it (the FCC Regulations) again, and I told him that I read it over and over again. Then I told him that I emailed a gentleman from the FCC and got direct reply and a "Wave of OKness" on the subject.

Personally, I am very aggrivated about this. It is not the point that it was developed for Public Safety use, but the point that it was allowed and some guy that was sitting in his "shack" probably in Dayton somewhere doing who knows what, trying to regulate on some schitt he has no clue about. I figure he was using an old ass crystallized radio that has no tone capability, that hangs out on HF and does CW all day and has carpal tunnel syndrome from all of it.

I do not intend to offend any Amateur Operator on this board that has been licensed for a long time that actually does use HF a lot and enjoys CW. I am just stating how I feel about this subject at this present time.

Anybody have input?

Some folks need to get a clue.

MDC1200 PTT-ID is only 180 ms long.

.18 seconds.

About the same time amount of time it takes for for a DCS turn off tone to happen.

The same amount of time it takes for tone reverse burst to happen (which I suspect probably doesn't happen most of time on most ham rigs.)

Do not allow these few "know-it-all" or "king-of-the-hill" types interfer with your goals, and perceptions of the hobby as a whole. Every bushel of apples has one or two with worms. It's up to us to ignore them, and don't let them spoil the whole bunch of us.

Hey, don't let it get to you! We've got a few of the "Radio Police" types here in the Raleigh Durham area of N.C., No, we have a whole lot of 'em.
One I refer to as the "Pompus Fox" and a few them frequent this board.
Radioslut(Jim) and i and a few others around here like to use the MDC and sometimes Modat for the hell of it. I'll never forget one night last summer when we were on 146.550 and one of these "Radio Police" guys popped in to let us know we were in violation of commision rules, what a riot! You handled it the way i would have and HAVE here in the past. These guys are usually bothered by things they don't understand or know about. You'll find a lot of these type will try to also give you problems about using commercial gear on the ham bands, the one here was convinced I had stolen all my gear from law enforcement agencys because Motorola radios can only be used by them! What a laugh these guys are, hey when you hear from him again, tell him AD4XE said he can kiss mine too!

Take care
frank
AD4XE

Well maybe they should add a intelligence test to become a ham. I tell you I have met some awesome ham's out their that are great people God bless them and then you have your certain people who have a opinion about everything and even when you prove them wrong their still right!! You should hear the stories when repeaters were the new kid's on the block my club I belong to broke right in half, can you believe that. I thought the whole point of amatuer radio was to further the art of communications and technology. It's sadd for some of the old timers who won't change their missing out on alot. God Bless
P.S I have mdc on all my radios I love it wwouldnt give it up for the world.
God bless MDC USERS

Chances are the repeater already has a courtesy tone to signal others that your transmission has ended and it's OK to proceed. In it's intended application the other recievers mute it out most of the time and it is transparent to the users. Ham equipment typically isn't this sophisticated and everyone hears the chirp full blast. I'm was glad when the shop abandoned our old scanner and replaced it with a motorola radio. Hearing loud MDC bursts 8 hours a day got old very quickly. Why implement MDC signalling at the end of every transmission when it is virtually useless for the application? It is not needed for MDC paging.

Eric

Well, there are a few issues here.

I've been a ham 28 years. And I work CW. Not much I can think of that MDC has to do with whether anyone runs CW. I also use Motorola equipment - on the ham bands. If you want to run MDC and the repeater owner doesn't care, go for it. It isn't anyone else's place to be giving orders about what you do. That's the nice thing about ham radio; there's something for everyone.

Now about MDC on the ham bands. Someone here said some time back he runs it "just to annoy folks." Well, that might be ok - it's not illegal, but it's sure not real mature either. Just to annoy folks? Come on now, that's rather pointless. And realistically, are you USING the MDC on the ham repeater, or is it just there to "sound cool?"

Truthfully, if it's serving no purpose, it IS annoying to hear over and over and over again. MDC IS just a noisy sound. Modac at least has a pleasant tone to it; not so MDC. Heck, the MDC sound is muted on a lot of radio systems that DO use it. And the reason they mute it isn't because it sounds good.

So yes, I'll agree with you. The kilocycle cop (another term for "frequency police" or whatever YOU call them) was out of line. But it doesn't mean his facts were incorrect. Quite truthfully, his point was probably valid. But he was wrong to play cop about it.

How would YOU like if I picked some music you don't like and blasted it at you "just to annoy you?" Get the idea?

73,

Well, either way, it's staying on there. Period. I bought the radio, I'm allowed to use it, people STILL talk to me to no end, so I'm nto worried about it at all. He was the ONLY person that has told me (or that I have heard thru the grapevine) that they didn't like it. We have the constitution, we have free speech. I comply under all of those, the FCC rules, and etc. That repeater was 60 miles away, that's onyl the second time I've ever been on it. Looks liek I'll never waste my time on that again unless I have an emergency to report, or something important. Along with the 60 zillion people that were listening to the repeater at the time all of this bickering was in progress, it SURE WAS QUIET. Nobody broke in, nobody sad a thing. It almost seemed like he was a bully, or one of those guys as mentioned above (radio-police/dictator), that nobody was going to say anything to JUST BECAUSE.

w5atx wrote: Truthfully, if it's serving no purpose, it IS annoying to hear over and over and over again.

It is serving no purpose, simply because desenting hams want it to serve no purpose.

MDC-1200 will only succeed if people using the repeater use it.

In RACES operation, every second can count. MDC-1200 can be used as a "radio caller-ID" on each radio. Or at least at a base unit.

We still have to ID every 10 minutes, but at least in the time in between we won't have to give a voice ID.

Think of how much time this takes up in 2-way communications, even outside of the ham service...

Now:

"12, Radio..."
"12?"
"Radio, I'll be 10-7 at McDonalds"
"12, 10-7 at McDonalds"

With MDC-1200:

(MDC pre PTT-ID shows up for dispatcher)
"Radio, I'll be 10-7 at McDonalds"
(MDC post PTT-ID shows up for dispatcher)
"12, 10-7 at McDonalds"

w5atx wrote: MDC IS just a noisy sound. Modac (sic) at least has a pleasant tone to it; not so MDC.

More /\/\otorola gear supports MDC1200, then MODAT. More low tier gear supports MDC-1200 over Modat.

w5atx wrote: How would YOU like if I picked some music you don't like and blasted it at you "just to annoy you?" Get the idea?

Like I stated earlier, MDC-1200 PTT-ID is only 180 ms in length (if you don't have a preamble.) This is the length of a squelch crash, or a repeater courtesy beep.

I've never heard a song that was less then a second in length.

You said it completely right, KC8RYW. I couldn't agree more. I should bring that type of thing up at our next ARES meeting (the MDC signalling part). HEY, but why need MDC pre and post on the transmission? Just get post going for that type!

This is how I see it.

One the main intentions of Ham Radio was for people to experiment and advance the technology of communications. There are certain rules set forth by the FCC regarding modes, power, and bands, but beyond that, if you stay within the rules and don't be like NexTel, you can do whatever you want.

The FCC says MDC is acceptable on Ham Radio and there is no reason it should not be. We use DTMF all the time. You can't tell what number a DTMF tone is when you hear it. MDC is no different. It is much more rare in Ham Radio due to it's propriatary nature, but I think it could be useful. An ARES situation is a perfect example. No so much for breifity, but for the same reason it is useful in a Police or Fire Dept.

Now, we all know there are some people that think all Ham Radio consists of is an HF rig and wire antennas that you use to talk around the world. They sometimes come on the local repeater, but even that is pushing it. Anything new bothers them. These guys have been at Ham Radio a LOT longer than me and I respect that. Unfortunately, that has made them awfully closed minded to new things. I for one am not really interested in DX worldwide HF communciations. I enjoy the local thing and l like new toys. If he doesn't like that, oh well. It is his own perogative and his own loss.

I also realize though, that if something new that I am using (ie- MDC) is annoying a large number of people (not just him), common courtesy would be to stop. But if it is just one or 2 old guys who can't accept it, I would be stooping to their level by turning it off. Use common sense, but don't let some grouch who hates new things stop you from trying new things with ham radio.

I can tell which DTMF tone is being played. It's not that hard....

Hi from a Canadian Ham Operator.
We must i.d. each 1/2 hour.
Most ham controllers will be set up not to
tx the dtmf input signal.My father showed me
MDC 600 Like used by some police and then the
common MDC 1200.It is very usefull when we
want to be on a repeater and just want calls
from a couple of users.We set up the mdc on
each radio then the repeater must pass it on.
All the radios without mdc1200 are not heard.
WE have some of the old MCX1000's with front
selectable tones. Many here in Canada like the
idea that when we travel together that all the
repeaters become a private system "FOR
OUR USE"We talk to each other or we can talk
to anyone when we decide not to use MDC1200.
It is a great tool when you travel with people
who do not like radios . I like ham very much.
From Canada SUSAN

Dont show up on any of my repeaters with MDC enabled for no reason or your echo mics. No wannabee cops using 10 codes either. And the first person to say " QSL" gets the stupidity prize.
It's almost as annoying as talking repeater controllers.
Plain english and normal discussions are the rule.
Thanks for the rant

Chris N9LLO

Well... aren't you fun


mancow

N9LLO wrote:Dont show up on any of my repeaters with MDC enabled for no reason or your echo mics. No wannabee cops using 10 codes either. And the first person to say " QSL" gets the stupidity prize.

Can we order a pizza from your repeaters phone patch?


Of course if it's your repeater, have your rules... I am sure there are plenty of other repeaters folks can use if they don't like your rules. Here in Montreal there are dozens of repeaters and they are so underused (overall less than 1% average use) that it's only a matter of chosing one.

As for MDC over repeaters I don't really see the point since no ham gear supports it (and not many hams have commercial gear), but as far as I am concerned, ham *IS* all about experimenting and enjoying the hobby so if some folks wanna play with it, have fun!

We ham operators USED to be the pioneers of communications innovations... now look at us. the dinosaur cult of CW, rag chewing on 2m/70cm repeaters, 1200 or 9600 bps packet, outdated analogue sat coms... wooo! excitment...

Good thing we still have some nick-nackers to occasionally come up with fun stuff like APRS, IRLP...

Pat - ve2vfd

N9LLO, that figures. See, you have no right to speak like that to any operator. If they want to pay the high end money to buy Motorola HT1250 to use for EMS and then amateur also, then damnit that's what they're doing. Other than some old ass CRYSTALLED radios. There is NO governing on Amateur, period, except for the FCC. And when the FCC allows it, well that just sucks for everyone that doesn't like it. Everyone has their bag of goodies they like for radios, but nobody can just dictate something that's not theirs or anybody's in general, just because they don't like it. You were acting just like that gentleman I spoke w/ on that repeater that started this discussion when you got on here and typed that.

Also, some Operators don't comprehend the facts that Amateur Radio is getting more technologically advanced, but they don't want it to be and are close minded about changes. Face it, if you don't want to be seeing all the changed and advancements, then join a R.E.A.C.T. group and get on your CB, "good buddy".

*I did not want to offend anyone on this board who is a React member, but I was just citing an example.

In the unlikely event of a major emergency or disaster on my town, I would love to have an MDC Enhanced system for Ham Radio. Just the key-up ID alone would be great. Not only can you see who is calling, you can time-stamp log with it. There is also SelCal paging and emergency alarm that would be usefull.

I do however agree that is the majority of people are annoyed by it when it isn't doing anything but make noise, I would turn it off until an actual use for it comes up.

Someone here said some time back he runs it "just to annoy folks." Well, that might be ok - it's not illegal, but it's sure not real mature either. Just to annoy folks? Come on now, that's rather pointless. And realistically, are you USING the MDC on the ham repeater, or is it just there to "sound cool?"

That was my comment, but that's not the intent (as I restated that thread). I was saying that in fun (satire). There are a couple of us that use it with other Motorola radios with FULL MDC1200 features. Having the call alert and selcal works great when you want to use an alternate freq to chit chat when working events (remember the public service side of ham?).

No one has asked me to turn it off, if anything, they are curious about it. My mobile radios are set to pre/post (with pre-amble for a couple of repeaters that open late) due to the mic mounting location. I for one would like to know if the radio is transmitting if I did not intend it to (remember that paragraph in the ARRL/FCC books about illegal transmissions?) The portables have post PTT as I know when I am pressing the buttons.

As for talking repeater controllers, I have no issue with them. I don't know about other area's, but around here they are anything but annoying. Its nice to hear about special upcoming events etc, and takes less than 30sec of airtime. Other than that, they don't talk any longer then some of these CW ID's that I have heard. When traveling, its nice to be able to find out that a repeater exists on certain freq's. That's came in handy when I went to North Carolina last week and traveling around.

10-95-> There are some nice repeaters in your area, but it didn't seem like anyone used them when I was there. If I knew you were there, I would have stopped by with my mobile "shack".

[quote="Lord Velveeta"]
Can we order a pizza from your repeaters phone patch?

Of course if it's your repeater, have your rules...

Feel free to use the patch to order a pizza anytime you are through here. I said I was against sending MDC for no reason (other than make noise). That puts you in the same catagory as the CB'ers with the echo mics and noisemakers.
If you are actually using it as it was intended have at it.

Dont be confused into thinking that copying what the commercial people do is advancing the radio art as called for in the Amatuer rules,when the commecial people copy what
Hams have done then you have something to talk about.

Talking repeater controllers are overused I can tolerate an occasional message of wide interest but to announce the time every 30 min I dont like.

And and Q signals on voice just makes you look stupid, 10 codes are almost as bad.

Chris

It is interesting to hear people say there is no reason to use MDC amateur radio or that it has no place in amateur radio. I invite these people to come to the the northern Illinois area and see that there is both a HUGE uhf linked repeater system and a VHF linked repeater system that REQUIRE the user to send a MDC-1200 ID to open the system (although this feature is shut off during emergencies such as SKYWARN). I myself and a number of others use MDC, not to annoy, but it lets you know who is talking besides the mandatory 10 min callsign ID. Plus when a person is not making a system very well, the MDC always seems to get though and I will see the ID on my display.

I have to agree with what N9LLO is saying, as I think some of his thoughts are being clearly read by some.

Correctly if I am wrong, but N9LLO is saying if there is no use for transmitting MDC, then yes it could be thought of being anoying. Example: what good is it doing the ham community if your MDC packet is not being decoded by another Motorola radio that is being used on the same system, or required by the repeater controller? The average and expericenced HAM does not/will not have access to a MDC decoder that costs some $$$.

I will agree with that.

He is also saying in the last post, if you are legitimting using MDC with other HAMS that are using MDC, no problem.

But just to sound "cool", or to annoy older hams, that can and will cause problems...maybe not now, but later. True, by the letter of the law you can do it, but why?

Personally I am all for it. Like I have said in the past, I use the selcall's with others, allows me to know if the truck radio is transmitting without my knowledge, and when working simplex saves me the from saying "over" all the time (I really HATE that word).

I don't think that the above shows that I am using MDC "just because", but if any of you think that it doesn't warrant its use, I would like to hear your thoughts (no flame wars, just your thoughts).

And and Q signals on voice just makes you look stupid, 10 codes are almost as bad.

I don't see what the problem is with 10-codes. I think they are rather useful. It is much easier to say "I'm 10-6," instead of "I'm going to be busy and away from the radio for a little while." It is also much easier to understand someone using a 10-code when they are breaking up/out of range. Maybe its just from my public safety background, but as long as you're not trying to obscure the meaning of a message, there shouldn’t be any problem using them on the ham bands. If someone complains because they don't know what one of the codes means, then explain it to them.

Another thing I hate is how (many) hams associate the use of 10-codes with illegal CBers, etc. First of all, 10-codes were invented by public safety. Secondly, who cares if said CBers do in fact use 10-codes. I may use them too, but you won't hear me behaving in the same manner as they do on the air.

If you don't like 10-codes, I respect that...I just have a hard time understanding why so many people think that they're so evil.

Just my thoughts...!

"All gave some, some gave all -- we will never forget"
09-11-01 http://fireradio.org

Thank you Pj, you summed it up. If it's being used, it's got a great reason to be transmitted. But too many folks it seems are using it just to annoy, make others ask questions, probably to "impress" mere non-Motorola using mortals. I dunno.

Again folks, I said if you're not using it for any reason, why do it? I didn't say there's "no use" for it. Obviously, the example of the UHF system in Illinois is a case where it is used. How many ham repeaters exactly use it where YOU are? I know how many use it here in Central NJ - midway between NY City and Philadelphia: exactly ZERO.

Those who do things to "impress," annoy, etc, are going to do what they're going to do. Funny thing is, one day even you will look back and say "man, that was dumb."

As a future ham (call sign pending), I'd like to see the 'best of' technology used.

MDC1200 I too find annoying. I do use it and have used it in the past, but I turn PTT ID off and only use the check/ selective call feature, usually on a PL'd radio set up not to require PL to 'hear' the MDC1200 data- thus you don't hear anything.

And although I'll never see it, it'd be cooler than anything to allocate a handful of frequencies to make some sort of trunked system on either VHF or UHF and then link it all together to make a 'nationwide' system featuring an autopatch, too- a "long range walkie talkie" even. That would get people interested in amateur communications- and away from Nextel, probably as coverage would likely be a hell of a lot better- audio quality would!

Of course, I like the fact that now I can go just about anywhere and be near an open repeater and be able to use it. Unfortunately, I'll probably have to deal with someone who doesn't like my presence. Luckily for me, my GP68's best signalling feature is DTMF PTT- ID and it's useless without another radio with the optional decoder.


Of course, I have to wait to use anything until those VE's get the info through to the FCC! They must have gone the US mail route because when I was licensing for GMRS via the internet, I had my callsign already (took the test on 7th).


-Josh

John, if you are referring to MDC not coming across the repeater if it requres a PL, 9 times out of 10, the MDC will go thru as well. The MSF5000 or CentraCom software for base stations have an option where it will strip the MDC packet from retransmitting thru the repeater. I worked for a PD that had this enabled until recently.

For the longest time I couldn't figure out why the cars/portables never heard the packet (before I really knew radio's).

Any mot radio with tx pl turned on, the MDC will also be pl'ed.

N9LLO wrote: Can we order a pizza from your repeaters phone patch?

Feel free to use the patch to order a pizza anytime you are through here.

Hee hee, I was only pulling your leg For some reason many (older) hams seem to think ordering a pizza is the ultimate crime on a repeater. Personally I don't really care, I wouldn't do it as I think it's (like anything else on a phone patch) just a pain.

I said I was against sending MDC for no reason (other than make noise). That puts you in the same catagory as the CB'ers with the echo mics and noisemakers. If you are actually using it as it was intended have at it.

Ahhhhh I see, ok well then we are in perfect agreement

And and Q signals on voice just makes you look stupid, 10 codes are almost as bad.

Q signals I refuse to use. They were invented to make the use of CW more efficient and IMO they are silly on voice comms.

As for 10 codes I will also not use, but for a different reason. Their main problem is that there is no set standard and no two areas or even no 2 services use the same codes.

As a simple example, in my dept 10-07 means you just arrived on scene to a call, to the local cops it means man down send the cavalry, and to the Montreal Fire Dept it means working fire, sound the first alarm. This is all within a few miles. Add to that CBers with their codes which differ depending on region or "gang"... (and so on and so on). I personally am an advocate of "Plain language" communications.

Pat - ve2vfd[/i][/b]

Lord Velveeta wrote:[As for 10 codes I will also not use, but for a different reason. Their main problem is that there is no set standard and no two areas or even no 2 services use the same codes.

As a simple example, in my dept 10-07 means you just arrived on scene to a call, to the local cops it means man down send the cavalry, and to the Montreal Fire Dept it means working fire, sound the first alarm. This is all within a few miles. Add to that CBers with their codes which differ depending on region or "gang"... (and so on and so on). I personally am an advocate of "Plain language" communications.

Pat - ve2vfd[/i][/b]

WOW. Here, and in my book, 10-7 means 'off the air' or 'away from the radio'.

Interesting stuff.

No matter how you look at it, 2 10-codes hold true: 10-4 and 10-20. I've received the message and what is your location.

Detroit police combine 10 and 4 and get 14. My local PD doesn't use 10-codes, either. Instead of 10-4 or 14, they say "Received"

-Josh

Here are the APCO 10 codes.

10-1 Cannot understand your message
10-2 Your signal is good
10-3 Stop transmitting
10-4 Message recieved ("OK")
10-5 Relay information to _________
10-6 Station is busy
10-7 Out of service
10-8 In service
10-9 Repeat last message
10-10 Negative ("no")
10-11__________ in sevice
10-12 Stand by
10-13 Report __________ conditions
10-14 Information
10-15 Mesage delivered
10-16 Reply to message
10-17 En route
10-18 Urgent
10-19 Contact __________
10-20 Unit location
10-21 Call __________ by telephone
10-22 Cancel last message
10-23 Arrived at scene
10-24 Assignment completed
10-25 Meet __________
10-26 Estimated time of arrival is _________
10-27 Request for information on license
10-28 Reques vehicle registration information
10-29 Check records
10-30 Use caution
10-31 Pick up
10-32 Units requested
10-33 Emergency! Clear the air
10-34 Correct time

APCO ... the same folks who brought you APCO-25.

I'll be the first to admit some of these are just annoying. 10-4, 10-7 and 10-20 are the most popular to use, at least with me.

I think there are many good ideas here. The bottom line is that MDC was made to help ID the the radio on the receiving end of the transmission. This could be very useful in the event someone is trapped in a building or something like that. It also could be use if the radio is stolen. This is only useful if someone on the receiveing end can decode it or they have a keen ear and can tell the difference. If you are useing it on a system or with others that can not decode the MDC it may not serve the user as is it was intended. As far as useing it on the Dayton repeater, I am not sure who you where talking with, but i know that repeater is very busy it could have been anyone. If the control operator (trustee) of the repeater ask for it not to be used it maybe a good idea to do what they ask. Alot of the time (not all) they have many $$$$$ in the system and are responsible for the use of the system. Besides why would you want to talk there if you are unwelcome. There are many more repeater to use. One nice thing i have noticed is that if you are the only one that uses the repeater with MDC on and you key the repeater up and do not ID, (which is not legal) they will figure who it is. I have many Motorola radios and use them for Ham as well as the local fire department. The fire department does not use it and most of the Sherriffs radios do not use it. I do not use it on my 1250 becuase i do not like the sound of it and there is no one on the receiving that uses it. Just my two cents.

Thanks Tim. Good info. I have since decided to take it off of all my repeater frequencies on there, but I can't find my adapter that goes inbetween my RIBless cable and the com port of my computer. I will continue looking. I guess it was neat when it started, but time has gone by. I guess this was more useful as a poll thread, to see the pros and cons.

PS. I will have to let you see this cable, Scott told me that you haven't heard of one or seen one before. It's really neat, and really easy. Cheaper than the RIB+cable.

LOL!!

When I was originally studying for the ham test I remeber that one of the examples regarding allowable use was:

It is not OK / legal to order a pizza over an autopatch, because that is conducting business over Ham radio.

On the other hand, it is perfectly legal to order a pizza over an autopatch while sitting in your ambulance at a fire standby, since that counts as supporting emergency operations.

Go figure......

With regard to 10-codes, I also have to put myself in the "plain English" camp. In one of the jurisdictions where I work, most agencies use 10-codes, and it is not uncommon to have to deal with three completely different sets of "10-codes" on one call ! (Am I talking to the dispatcher who thinks that 10-13 means "Auto Accident", the one who thinks it means "Open the door", or the one who thinks that it means "HEEEEEEELP!!!"?) Another jurisdiction simply uses plain English (although you do hear "10-4" here and there), and everyone is happy.

Now if we could just come out with a digital ID format that would encode and decode ham calls- imagine if a standard caught on and replaced voice ID.......

HumHead wrote:LOL!!

When I was originally studying for the ham test I remeber that one of the examples regarding allowable use was:

It is not OK / legal to order a pizza over an autopatch, because that is conducting business over Ham radio.

You will want to check on this... the FCC snugged up the rules on autopatch a few years ago. Now, anything goes, basically as long as you don't profit off of it.

In my opinion, any kind of 10-code or similar concept on Ham Radio or anything other than a private system is absolutely usless. Nothing means the same thing anywhere except 10-4. I love reading the Firehouse.com forums and you see people in their posts using codes

Example... "Well we got this call the other day and as I was going 10-8. After we arrived, we found out it was only a 12 and had cental give a 48." No one knows that the hell that means.

We could probably make a new topic on this subject alone (maybe I will if I gt bored). On Ham Radio, any code except the occasional "10-4" when you are saying it almost jokingly IMO is pointless.

Could someone give a simple explanation on how MDC works. I have read through this post that you can do selective calling of specific units, get unit id, and control linked repeaters. Is this done through a key pad on the radio or is it programmed by channel? Do you have to have a display on the radio to get the benefits from using it?

MDC1200 is a data packet that is sent before or after a voice transmission. The data sent can be used by a base/mobile/portable capable is decoding the data.

Radios that have basic MDC feature can have:
Unit ID: Similar to "Caller ID"
Emergency: When activated, the radio will send a packet that will beep a console and show the radio sending an emergency "officer down" or "mayday" type of signal.

More advanced radios can send pre defined "status" or "messages" to base radios. All the radio display will show is "M1 I0123". The dept may use message 1 as "In Service" but the display will only show "M1" (or S1 for status). In this case, the radio with is 123 is shown as I0123 and M1 for message 1.

Selcall or Select Call allows you to contact a specific radio. When the command is transmitted, the other radio will unmute with a special tone show who is calling. Page is done the same way.

MDC is a very versitle data format, and its all done in 180ms.

Getting back to the orignal question, non display radios usually just have ID and Emergency features. Sometimes side buttons can be programmed to transmit other MDC commands, but usually not.

Most display units will allow you to use the more advance functions, but only if programmed that way in RSS. Display is not required, but helpful if your agency uses MDC quite a bit.

KC8RYW wrote:

HumHead wrote:LOL!! :lol:

When I was originally studying for the ham test I remeber that one of the examples regarding allowable use was:

It is not OK / legal to order a pizza over an autopatch, because that is conducting business over Ham radio.

You will want to check on this... the FCC snugged up the rules on autopatch a few years ago. Now, anything goes, basically as long as you don't profit off of it. 8)

KC8RYW is correct. I can't give an exact quote of the regs, but the bottom line is, once upon a time, no talk on the ham bands could involve the making of money for anyone. FCC changed that some time ago as to mean the ham him/herself could not be using the radio to make money. Since the ham using the autopatch isn't the one making the money, he/she can use the patch to order pizza.

73,

Chris

KC8RYW wrote:

10-16 Reply to message

Every time I say 10-16, it means I have someone in handcuffs.


Har HAR!

-119

HAHA.

10 codes don't even exist here anymore. There are code systems but nothing is a "10" code except 2 on the PD

10-4 (duh)

10-99 (Everyone shut the hell up/ don't call dipatcher.) That would be if the dispatcher needs the units to stop calling while on an urgent 911 or something.

Out here... 10-21 is call by phone and 10-99 refers to the officer's residence. So when an officer is requested to "10-21, 10-99", everyone knows he's in trouble with the wife.

Well, personally, depending on what radio you have, I'd program it for MODAT or GE-STAR signalling. He thinks MDC is annoying? *grin*



Mike

mdc is nice for its intended use but what about the user with GEstar or T99, if some one set up a GEstar only repeater then all the Motorola guys would be shut out and vice versa. This is why the apco25 standard was made so everyone could use various vendors radios and still be able to talk to others. Until the ham mfgrs. come up with a universal standard then I see no use for an exclusive MDC only system on the ham bands, especially like the system mentioned in Indiana where MDC1200 was required, boy if I was passing thru with my ge front programmable radios and had an emergency I guess I'd have to search for an open repeater. If you make the systems so they can use conventional signalling, IE CTCSS oops sorry Channel Guard for the Ge guys, and MDC for the people who want to use the mdc ID or even a system set up for all formats, IE Gestar, T99 and MDC so all users can get in no matter what signalling they use then I see no problem with it but as I said an exclusive MDC or GE signalling system only shuts out a lot of potential users especially during an emergency. Oh yeah I have both MDC radios and GeStar and T99 capable commercial radios converted to the ham bands but so far have had no use for the various signalling being used on the ham bands just because there are people I talk to who are using regular ham equipment along with the others who are usingconverted GE and or Motorola equipment.


Mike

hmm, I still like the idea of making a state wide Simulcast APCO-25 system.

I had just recently started using MDC1200 at work, for some 110 busses, DPW cars, and admin. Fortunately, just to piss the dispatchers off, I enabled the pl, and muted the side tone. Someone caught on. I had to stand infront of the chief admin. and give a lesson in RADIO 101. Fortunatley, he'd rather have the phone glued to his ear then worry about ID's on the radios. When the word came up about tracking stolen radios, he really tuned an ear.
I agree for the fact about mdc on amateur radio. If it ain't hurtin ya, whatcha screamin about?
jimmy

nmfire10 wrote:hmm, I still like the idea of making a state wide Simulcast APCO-25 system.

LOL... Maybe a first project like this in a small sized state (colonies ) in New England... But Michigan is HUGE!

I heard a rumor that the entire Michigan State Police have gone completely over to their 800 MHz APCO-25 Digital system. I am pretty sure that the lowband equipement is still around, though; maybe for a little while longer, anyway.

I don't even want to know how many towers they have around the state. According to http://www.syclo.com/smart/michigan_state.pdf ,
"We have over 180 sites, and at every tower site, we have a 500-foot tower with a lighting system and antenna," notes Theron Shinew, field services manager."Each site also has a 12'X24' shelter with the emergency generator, HVAC and fire control equipment, and all the microwave and radio frequency electronics needed for communication."


It sure would be interesting for hams to have a better system then most small town police departments. I mean, some are still running on low-band simplex (not that there is anything wrong with that) mobile to mobile, and mobile to base only (no HT's)

kc8svs wrote:I was just on the biggest Dayton, OH repeater (145.110).

Well that was your first problem! (being on the 5..11 machine in the first place) tho's folks on the 5.11 machine don't even know the difference between Simplex and Repeater, I was talking with a 20 year licensed ham a genral class at that! on the 5.11 yrs ago, and he asked me how his signal was, I told him he was solid into the repeater, he then said he just hooked up a amp and was testing it, he asked me to watch my signal meter and when he turned it on he wanted to know how much difference it made to his signal..(remember we are on a repeater) DUHHHHHH this was a trustie of the machine...haa ha ha ahhaa ha ah I have never been on that system again! and by the way I run MDC1200 on all my equiptment...

P.S. Try running your MDC1200 on the 145.35 repeater in Cincinnati, you will most likely get a whole lot of 4 letter words thrown at you, if they can figure out how to put the radio they own into offset/repeater mode! what another group of losers... See Ya...


Jeff N8EMA
CinCinnati,Ohio....

Next time you pass thru Columbus, OH get on the W8LT machine on 442.600 (+ offset) with a PL 114.8 Hz. Almost EVERYONE on there is a motrola fan, and most have MDC-1200 enabled. I used to be a member of that club, they got me started into motorolas. My first 6 ch maxtrac did not have signalling, though .

73,

-Bill
KC8QDR

KB9WZV wrote: I invite these people to come to the the northern Illinois area and see that there is both a HUGE uhf linked repeater system and a VHF linked repeater system that REQUIRE the user to send a MDC-1200 ID to open the system (although this feature is shut off during emergencies such as SKYWARN).

Is is FISHFAR or another?? What do I need to send for ID in the MDC to get in? I'm north of you, across the state line

PM if needed!

007,
There are three in the area that I can think of that use the mdc format. The two larger area coverage machines would most likely be Fishfar or Stroke. The trustee assigns you an mdc id and then puts you in the data base I'm not sure but I think they require a photo copy of your license. I guess its their way to police their systems. The improper mdc code will not be given access to the system.
Doug

I can think thru the solution as set exactly like a PL'd repeater, but they'd need some type of MDC decoder, and associated circuitry to enable the repeater based on a lookup table (if multiple mdc id's are used).

Wonder how:

- they are decoding the mdc value
- looking up the value to base against some table, using a PIC device maybe?

anyone know the technical details?

Vic