Batboard

Hey guys,
Our fleet of radios consists of XTS5000 and 2500 being used in conventional VHF analog as well as P25 800 trunked. I was reading some articles online about the whole background noise issue with P25 radios and came across Motorola's Noise Reduction software. Is this something that is a free firmware upgrade or does this require a whole re-flashing of the radio? Also on a side note does anyone have any literature that explains some of the engineering parts of a P25 trunked system, something similar to the MotoTRBO system planner pdf.
Thanks,
David

The Noise Reduction software is not free, its a upgrade if you don't already have it. Just a note though the NTIA/IAFC testing that was done was done with the Noise Reduction software running. So don't assume that upgrading to that will make your radio perform better than the IAFC test.



ads

Wow, thanks for that input! You just saved me some money.
Take Care,
David

Dsheli and ads47

This is good information to know for those out there who are using the defective equipment everyday.

I certainly thank you for it and will pass it along to folks struggling with the same issue and considering PAYING for this "noise reduction" which should never be a problem to begin with.

Also, Have you seen these videos discussing the problem? It would seem many others have been bitten by this issue with the 20+ year old P25 CODEC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3y_eVmRbEA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRP6eCVV1t8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4WmZ78GIsw

I would think these people and the taxpayer are due back a refund for the fact that the P25 codec cannot handle the noise of their regular working environment and made the choice to use it because they were told it would work.

Hopefully your post will help others new to the subject trying to do their homework.

Regards/73,

Steve - KJ4MDZ

ads47 wrote:The Noise Reduction software is not free, its a upgrade if you don't already have it.

ads

I think thats a generalized statement, that may not be totally correct.

The advanced noise reduction software is a feature that works with DSP/HOST 12 and above, IIRC, and yes it does require a firmware only refresh.

Talk to your local sales and engineering team. I have had similar experiences to what you are dealing with, and /\/\ has more often than not, done the right thing and provided a solution that made everyone happy. They aren't always the evil money machine that doesnt care. (you still wont be able to pay more though, lol)

Okay, lets blame Motorola for a 20 year old standard. APCO was the driving force here, so blame them and the standards committee if you want to point fingers. Motorola is only one of many vendors that build to it.

I'd be more inclined to blame DVSI - it's their buggy codec that's at fault..

or EFJ's don't have this problem, and ironically, they are on an Astro 25 SZOL 6 system and sound better than Motorola sub units...but then the EFJ's come with the enhanced vocoder standard, not an upgrade. They are also considerably less than a comparably equipped XTS5000, and have all of the features, a better warranty, and compatible with most audio accessories and most XTS batteries.

What flash option is noise reduction or is it included in firmware 12 and above?

MTS2000des wrote:or EFJ's don't have this problem, and ironically, they are on an Astro 25 SZOL 6 system and sound better than Motorola sub units...but then the EFJ's come with the enhanced vocoder standard, not an upgrade. They are also considerably less than a comparably equipped XTS5000, and have all of the features, a better warranty, and compatible with most audio accessories and most XTS batteries.

Are you saying that you have successfully deployed P25 in loud noise environments? Are you using P25 on the fireground in conjunction with SCBAs, chainsaws, 1000gpm pumps etc?

yes, and the EFJ's work fine. the AGC on them is awesome, and actually sound better in loud noisy backgrounds than the county's XTS5000's do on the same system. They also have much better RF performance, at the hospital where I work, XTS2500's are used by security on the same system, same 5/8 wave antennas and the 2500's go "digital" and bonk "out of range" where the EFJ's still get the system and can put a usable signal into it, and hear/decode just fine. The weak signal and audio performance, as well as lower price, are the main reason the city bought them as opposed to Motorola and Kenwood (who was later dismissed because their offering did not do 700MHz).

I am very familiar with those on the selection team and the process, and the city saved a ton of money buying EFJ and a year later no complaints. I wish our facility bought the EFJ's but unlike the city, we didn't put out a real, true open RFP and let the best man with the best mousetrap win.

http://www.efjohnsontechnologies.com/ne ... e_id=10580

WCHija wrote:What flash option is noise reduction or is it included in firmware 12 and above?

Yes, the advanced noise suppression is included with 12 or higher. It is selectable on the audio gain controls tab of the radio wide features.

Its not perfect, but its way better than the previous recommended settings.

Jason wrote:

ads47 wrote:The Noise Reduction software is not free, its a upgrade if you don't already have it.

ads

I think thats a generalized statement, that may not be totally correct.

The advanced noise reduction software is a feature that works with DSP/HOST 12 and above, IIRC, and yes it does require a firmware only refresh.

Talk to your local sales and engineering team. I have had similar experiences to what you are dealing with, and /\/\ has more often than not, done the right thing and provided a solution that made everyone happy. They aren't always the evil money machine that doesnt care. (you still wont be able to pay more though, lol)

Okay, lets blame Motorola for a 20 year old standard. APCO was the driving force here, so blame them and the standards committee if you want to point fingers. Motorola is only one of many vendors that build to it.

Jason, If I understand correctly what you are suggesting I should ask my dealer to see if Motorola will provide a free upgrade in light of this problem? Can't hurt to ask right? Also, I believe some there are some Motorola dealers who know more about what they are programing then others. Just in case one of those dealers happens to be mine what should I tell them to ensure that our P25 radios are configured or tuned properly to ensure that we get the best possible audio out of our current equipment.
Thanks guys!
David