Batboard

I believe I read somewhere that NYPD is starting to use Vertex HT's (commercial ones, not ham ones.)

Can anyone confirm this?

It's true. I forget the exact model, but it's the UHF unit with the orange button on top that looks like a VX150. Top freq it will do is 480 mHz so it looks as if might have been made just for the NYPD T-band split.

I have a Vertex VX-900. VERY nice radio...and no RSS hassles like you get from another manufacturer whose name I will not mention. (I was going to put a (G) after that last sentence but then I decided that it wasn't funny.)

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

NYPD is using two models: The VX800 for Mayoral security, some undercover work and some supervisors/higher ups. The other model is the VX520; this is the Saber replacement. As I understand it, the 520 is an NYPD specific version of the 510 made to their specifications (a two-way night stick). Vertex is even engraving the "NYPD" into the front housings at the factory.

NYPD is/will also purchasing a mobile. I'm not sure, but I think it's one of the 4000 series.

Henry

LOL... the VX-800 sort of reminds me a little of my Yaesu Vx-5r.
Come to think of it, most Vertex radios do.

It's nice to see someone putting the some pressure on ma' /\/\ for the public safety market. NYPD must like them, if they seem to keep buying them.

From what I understand, NYPD ordered 35,000 of these radios last year when they made the switch to Vertex. The word is that the older out-of-service "M" radios were all destroyed due to the contract they signed when they were purchased years ago.

jim wrote:The word is that the older out-of-service "M" radios were all destroyed due to the contract they signed when they were purchased years ago.

I can't stand it when this happens.

Perfectly good working radios ending up in the trash, to be buried in a landfill, and never seen again.

There ought to be some law against this government wastefulness...

My friends and i are trying really hard to push VERTEX around here. ma "M" is pushing the statewide 800 system very hard with their usual ungodly pricing of subscriber units and montly subscription fees. Tax money could be better spent on other issues and needs. I have a VX-900 and that thing blows radios such as HT1250's, HT1000's, and even the GP300's out of the water. Especially on reception.

Just my $1.00 - $.98

A contractual term to either return or destroy items no longer in service is not that uncommon part of huge procurements like this. The buyer gets a better price up front for accepting this and the manufacturer is assured of not having the market flooded 5 or 10 years later during the next replacement cycle.

Think of 35,000+ used radios, all of one breed/model, being put on the used market at the same time. Dealer sales in that geo area would be in the toilet for the next year or so. So... like much of what happens in life, market forces prevail.

Auto makers have actually done this with extremely large auto/truck fleet purchases - typical of the federal govt. The agency has already received a rebate up front and turns the vehicles not 'handed down' to other agencies rather than put them on the used market.

Before anyone else gets bent out of shape by this admittedly stupid process, remember that the NYPD's old radios were T-band radios on 473 or 476 mHz, and that there are only a few areas in the USA where T band is used, so it's probable that the market for 35,000 used T-band radios would be rather limited.

But it would have been great for the "used Saber I case market."

Again, scrapping good radios is a dumb thing to do, but it would have been somewhat dumber if the radios were 440/470 units.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

the verstex radio's that were purchased by the police department are only a temporary move. the are testing xts and astro sabers. there was no order for 35,000 radios. the department has around 15,000 radio's. 35,000 would make it possible for almost all officers to have their own radio. the NYPD does not trust us that much. as for the radio's being crushed the reason i was told was(by the gentlemen in the queens radio shop) years ago they used gove the radio's away to ham operators or another agency who needed them, but one showed up in a movie which was viewed by some chief. after that everything goes to the crusher.

The City of N.Y. Police Dept went to great lengths in their testing of many different brands and models of radios to REPLACE older Motorola radios that are dying.

This change to Vertex is NOT a tempory change until Motorola gets their act together. NYPD bought 8000 portable radios for all divisions. This was the first order of at least three orders over the next three years. They have indicated that the NYPD plan to change out all portable radios over the next 3 to 4 years.

I have talked to a couple of the "Dick's" on Staten Island and I have been told that when the radios first arrived that there were a few "conversations" about who would get the new radios first. Senior officers won out.

I'm was also told that these radios out perform the Motorola radios " hands down ". Even over the Sabers. Better and louder audio and weigh half as much and are easier to carry.

NYPD is just about done with the testing for replacement mobile radios. I have heard that they are very impressed with the VX-4000.

Motorola has in the past made very good radios. But today there are other manufactures of radios that are just as good, perform just as well, better warranty and cost a lot less.

I'm glad to see that after decades of being a Motorola user, a Public Safety agency can get past the status quo.

If some one wants a high spec portable with good audio, no programming headaches like "M" and very good pricing, you should check out the VX-800 & VX-900 portables.

What is the average working life for a portable in public safety use? How about a mobile?

I hope these radios are better than the complete junk vertex stuff I've seen a service shops bench. I've known the shop for years and they're pretty honest with opinions since they are a full repair shop. Nothing but headaches and lousy quality with VX series portables. Maybe these are better.

Then again, just look at the junk called the Minitor III. Motorola doesn't even stock parts for these things.

Working life? Good question. A lot depends on the type of service. Most replacements seem to stem from either technology changes. i.e narrow band, trunking, interferece etc or they stuff is just worn out. I don't believe most agencies think about a replacement time frame.

The newer Vertex's like the VX-800 are not bad radios, compared to what japanese radios used to be like. I would certainly take a VX-800 anyday over a Waris radio, but it still is a close second to a Jedi, and I am sorry, but no radio can match the performance of a PROPERLY TUNED and MAINTAINED Saber.

One major disadvantage that Vertex has is the lack of a large parts and service distribution system like only Ma M has. you just can't get same day turnaround from nearly as many Vertex dealers as you can a Motorola dealer. In Atlanta, for example, while there are about 12 major radio dealers that SELL Vertex radios, only one has the capbility to do board level repair, and they prefer to send off the radios to the factory for service. Well that may be okay for causal or low-duty users, but public safety tear up radios all the time, and expect a level of service that Ma M and her NSO's can provide. Service is sometimes more important than the overall quality of a product.

You can STILL order most parts for older Motorola radios like P200's, HT-600/MT1000's etc, especially cosmetic parts. But try doing that with a 10 year old Vertex/Yaesu and you will be lucky to find the same support. That is a big deal with public safety folks.

I don't see Vertex, Kenwood or Icom getting on the P25 bandwagon like they should be. This is where the money is and most large municipalities are headed to, especially with Federal money being offered to offset the cost as part of a "homeland security" issue. So far, it is still Motorola, GE/Ericcson/MA-COM/Tyco and EF Johnson who are taking the lead with P25.

Around here, the average life of a public safety radio is 10-15 years. Before our county bought their SmartNet II analog in 1993, they were using MT500's with date codes of Nov 1977. They only replaced the system because they needed more channels.

in my area (edacs pro-voice) they have said 8 years for the lpe-200's and 12 years for the orion mobile and the system life should be 15 years.

Mike

I have been told by one Vertex dealer that Vertex's APCO 25 portable is probably a year in the future.

But it's coming, no doubt about it.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

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As far as 'Life expectancy" of a radio, we use Astro Saber I & III's that are about 5 years old, and they are about to fall apart. We are so ruff on these radios. They get dropped, dunked in bleach, used as hammers and thrown to the ground 'cause they don't work (actually had to counsel someone for this)...
I told him how much they cost and he said, "If they are so expensive, why don't they work?" I told him, "They don't work 'cause IDIOTS like you continue to throw them to the ground!"
So, I'd say within a few years there will be about 300 Astro Sabers going to DRMO, but I wouldn't want them...
Scott

We had 1962 vintage HT200s that lasted 25 years. The mobile rigs of that time were a mix of GE and RCA!!! They were who-knows-how-old. And they were beat too.

In 1987, we upgraded with the rest of the state and got Syntor Xs and MX340 (350? I dunno now) and STXs. Latest now is Astros and HT1000/MT2000. They are being routinely replaced now about every five years. (yes, we mix trunked and conventional.)

We don't beat them too badly. But they just stop working. Oh well.

Raleigh N.C. had Sabers, went to MPA'S, and is phasing in Vertex 900 series now. Some commenting about how easy it is to inadvertantly bump the front-mounted toggle switch--othher than that, seem to like then. The ones they have have the "pivoting" button GLUED on the back case, not rivited. Should be interesting to see how THAT holds up--Blitz.

NYPD has always destroyed their radios untill recently,(Motorola contract states that, for a better price, one you and I would never see) havn't you seen on E-bay the fellow selling the NYPD memrobilia portable. They are old MX's, he bought roughly 2,000 of them and paid $3.00 each for 4 years ago. As far as they area market being destroyed if that many radios hit the market at once, not since Nexthell. Virtually nobody is buying 2-way radios anymore, unless they own their own system..

Well Lots of things Are Changing in the NYPD. Thay have finally after years of Buying Ugly As sin Vectors and Visiond From Federal Signal. Have finally seen the the ligh and is ordering Whelen Strobe bars and the Such,.

But what About MDC1200

MDC 1200 is no longer a /\/\ only item. There are a number of manufacturers supplying MDC 1200 boards.

The Vertex Standard 600, 800, 900 and VX-4000 mobile have MDC 1200 options.

[quote="Tom in D.C."]Before anyone else gets bent out of shape by this admittedly stupid process, remember that the NYPD's old radios were T-band radios on 473 or 476 mHz, and that there are only a few areas in the USA where T band is used, so it's probable that the market for 35,000 used T-band radios would be rather limited.

Yup, and on top of it they were 1 watt radios no great loss here.

1 of the reasons nypd purchased the vertex's (3000 if memory serves me) instead of motorolas is because radio shop spec insists bottom-mount battery instead of rr-mount battery, and as we know motorola know longer produces such a radio- the astro saber is entirely too expensive considering we have NO intention of going digital. another thing that impressed them about the vertex 510nypd is that they actually drove police car back and forth over the radio and parked on it and it still worked, the saber failed. nypd buys radios for 10yr service life, motorola continues to manufacture the saber 1s to honor that commitment, my command and entire patrol borough received our current radios about 1-1/2 - 2 yrs ago and i have been told we won't see new radios until these are replaced after 10 yrs, so i don't know how many vertwx's will actually arrive.

Does NYPD use mobiles in the cars, or just portables?? I have only been to NYC once, and didn't get close enough to a NYPD car to look....




-RC-

for many yrs, since early 80's, until about 4-5 yrs ago, the only dept vehicles that had mobile radios were citywide command vehicles such as the emergency service unit(because they might respond to any location in the city- there were 25 radio divisions and another 10 or so citywide divisions at the time) and big boss's cars-deputy inspector and above. these radios were micors and syntors and syntor x's. in fact, the reason they stopped installing them in the other cars was contractual, the PBA got the city to order the cars w/air conditioning in exchange for losing the mobile radios! anyway, about 4-5 yrs ago they woke up and decided they would be usefull and ordered about 5,000 mid-power spectra A9s with the intention of allocating 6-8 per command, i think they thought they would be usefull for our 'rapid mobilization' responses, there are 4 levels of response with the lowest and most common the 'level 1' - overused for missing persons searches, suspect searches, evidence searches, etc, and depending on the mobilization level a set # of pct personnel might respond out of it's own radio area. the thing is, unless you took the iniative to make an installation appointment, your cars wouldn't get them. sadly most of our cops couldn't be bothered with them, and turn the volume off and rely on their portable radios- they wonder why they sometomes forget a portable in the car, it's because they didn't have them on their belts before they exit the vehicle because they transmit on them instead of the mobile.

I was under the impression that certain units such as highways and a few others used converta - coms for their sabers is this correct? In EMS we have Spectra A7's remote mounted for voice and either Spectras or Syntors for data....

yes, there are convertacoms in use, mostly in HIWAY patrol cars, it's a personal preference for installation....there are pallets 6ft high at radio repair of defective ones waiting to be dumped.

We just took Vertex on as 2 way supploer at work, can't wait to get some demos, hopefully might be replacing my kenwood X30 series remote head radios with some of them. If anyone is interested in purchasing some at a great price, let me know what your looking for and i'll get you pricing. Thanx